Biblical AUTHORITY

[ScottA]

In preface, this is a word to the wise...and those not so wise. Which I am commenting on because over the these times of the gentiles and the church, the perspective toward biblical authority has changed; and when I say "biblical authority"--I do not mean authority according to what one may interpret is what is correct--but what is actually meant without any such variance, but rather as authority from God.

With little exception, God did not come down from heaven and speak man to man until Jesus came, nor since them. And you might ask a hundred people what biblical authority or authority from God is, and get a hundred different answers. But God's method, with the exception of Christ, has been consistent and is written: He picks, as with David, often from what would otherwise seem to be the least of people, usually men, or perhaps a donkey or an evil king--comes upon them in spirit, and delivers what He wills, when He wills, "precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little.” Isaiah 28:10 --Individuals. Which, no, did not stop after Jesus's twelve apostles all died, but as it is written:

“When He ascended on high,​

He led captivity captive,​

And gave gifts to men.”​

9(Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)​

11And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. Ephesians 48-16​

But there is an issue that seems to persist. At the time of Christ, the response of God's people was to accuse Jesus (who embodied the authority of the Father) of having a demon, wanted to kill Him, and eventually did. Then His apostles were also likewise killed for delivering the same message. Then the church fathers, who were told that "false teachers" would come among them, whether by the false teachers or the true, followed with much the same, casting out or killing anyone who seemed to challenge their authority...which then continued to include the burning of witches, etc.. And now days? Well, certainly we are more "civilized" and do not kill (heaven forbid), but excommunicate, or merely call "heretic!"

And this we do in spite of the fact that those accused may very well be accused by those foretold "false teachers" and their pupils, who might just be those who are actually chosen and sent by God for the benefit of the church. And although it is a biblical certainty that this very thing would come (according to God), who wants to believe they themselves have been the victim of such false teachers, and are now rejecting God by rejecting those He has sent?

Therefore take heed that the light which is in you is not darkness. Luke 11:35​

 

[Randy Kluth]

God did not come down from heaven and speak man to man until Jesus came, nor since them. And you might ask a hundred people what biblical authority or authority from God is, and get a hundred different answers. But God's method, with the exception of Christ, has been consistent and is written: He picks, as with David, often from what would otherwise seem to be the least of people, usually men, or perhaps a donkey or an evil king--comes upon them in spirit, and delivers what He wills, when He wills, "precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little.” Isaiah 28:10 --Individuals.

The real question for me is not whether God spoke to us through Jesus and through his representatives, then or now? The real question is, who are the genuine representatives of God's prophetic voice and who are fakes? And among those who speak in God's name, is there are a mix between what is of God and what is not of God?

The Scriptures are a tool to aid us in discerning these things. True Prophets properly represent God's nature in their presentation of His voice. They demonstrate in their message that God is love, and not malicious. They demonstrate a certain alignment with many other noted examples of God's deeds, as indicated in the Bible.

We know that people will misrepresent God, take His name in vain, or create false images as idolatrous misrepresentations of who He is. So we simply have to *know Him for ourselves,* 1st of all. And then we have to learn to dissect what is "of Him," and what is obviously not "of Him."

Part of the value in these Christian forums is that some of the genuine of God comes out and instructs us as to what He is like and what He had been doing. And the false representation of God also comes out helping us to expose what God is *not* like, and what He has *not* being doing.

1 John I find very useful in discerning the "things of God" properly.
Thanks for raising the issue.

 

[ScottA]

The real question for me is not whether God spoke to us through Jesus and through his representatives, then or now? The real question is, who are the genuine representatives of God's prophetic voice and who are fakes? And among those who speak in God's name, is there are a mix between what is of God and what is not of God?

The Scriptures are a tool to aid us in discerning these things. True Prophets properly represent God's nature in their presentation of His voice. They demonstrate in their message that God is love, and not malicious. They demonstrate a certain alignment with many other noted examples of God's deeds, as indicated in the Bible.

We know that people will misrepresent God, take His name in vain, or create false images as idolatrous misrepresentations of who He is. So we simply have to *know Him for ourselves,* 1st of all. And then we have to learn to dissect what is "of Him," and what is obviously not "of Him."

Part of the value in these Christian forums is that some of the genuine of God comes out and instructs us as to what He is like and what He had been doing. And the false representation of God also comes out helping us to expose what God is *not* like, and what He has *not* being doing.

1 John I find very useful in discerning the "things of God" properly.
Thanks for raising the issue.

It is certainly good to be skeptical and not believe everyone....so long as we leave room for God to squeeze in the likes of a shepherd boy...or a donkey.

It is also good to remember that although the scriptures are indeed a great tool and reference regarding all matters of God, the mistake and woe of the Priests, Lawyers, and Pharisees was to put all their trust in the words alone--which were then later claimed to actually be "foolishness to the natural man", rather than getting the full message only available via the Spirit.

And yes, hallelujah that the fruit of both the good and the fake comes to light here on the forum!

 

[Truth7t7]

The real question is, who are the genuine representatives of God's prophetic voice and who are fakes?

I Agree 100%

Matthew 7:15-20KJV
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

 

[grafted branch]

He picks, as with David, often from what would otherwise seem to be the least of people, usually men, or perhaps a donkey or an evil king--comes upon them in spirit, and delivers what He wills, when He wills, "precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little.” Isaiah 28:10 --Individuals. Which, no, did not stop after Jesus's twelve apostles all died, but as it is written:

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Some ways to test the spirits are seen by the Bereans who searched the scriptures daily to see if it was so, and in Jeremiah 28:9 we have the words of a prophet need to come to pass to know that the Lord truly sent him.

Ok, the two extremes are full preterist and full futurist. Let’s take the millennium for example, the preterist will say it’s fulfilled and the futurist will say it’s not fulfilled. How can we know if it has come to pass or not? I can check the scriptures daily but it’s not clearly stated one way or the other. I have my opinion on it but if as you say an individual, who may be the least of people, comes into my church and declares the millennium hasn’t been fulfilled, what metric should we use to determine if he is true or false? If I wait until the millennium is passed to determine whether he is true or false we may all be dead by then.

In 2 Timothy 2:17-18 Hymenaeus and Philetus declared something was fulfilled that wasn’t and in Matthew 11:3 John the Baptist disciples asked if Jesus is the one, thinking something wasn’t fulfilled that was.

How can we know if something is fulfilled or not? What say you.

 

[ScottA]

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Some ways to test the spirits are seen by the Bereans who searched the scriptures daily to see if it was so, and in Jeremiah 28:9 we have the words of a prophet need to come to pass to know that the Lord truly sent him.

Ok, the two extremes are full preterist and full futurist. Let’s take the millennium for example, the preterist will say it’s fulfilled and the futurist will say it’s not fulfilled. How can we know if it has come to pass or not? I can check the scriptures daily but it’s not clearly stated one way or the other. I have my opinion on it but if as you say an individual, who may be the least of people, comes into my church and declares the millennium hasn’t been fulfilled, what metric should we use to determine if he is true or false? If I wait until the millennium is passed to determine whether he is true or false we may all be dead by then.

In 2 Timothy 2:17-18 Hymenaeus and Philetus declared something was fulfilled that wasn’t and in Matthew 11:3 John the Baptist disciples asked if Jesus is the one, thinking something wasn’t fulfilled that was.

How can we know if something is fulfilled or not? What say you.

Those are the terms placed by God that can only be revealed as true or false by the same Spirit which inspired the scriptures and those sent. So, only by the Spirit can we come to know what is true and what is not--which, if embraced, eliminates the "flesh and blood" component which Christ declared would not be the construct of His church. Matthew 16:17 Those are the terms--from Jesus.

So, yes, the Bride is to be silent in church--that "it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you." Matthew 10:20 Which is to say, not even by every member of the body, but only the "some" of His choosing, according to His giving of spiritual gifts. Ephesians 4. --And who is it that would reject these God appointed terms?

Who indeed...and yet there are even some here who categorically reject everything and everyone that does not agree with what they understand by their own interpretation or learning.

Thus. to answer your question: We ought to seek rather His face and turn not to flesh and blood, not to people, knowing however that it is His way to show up even where we least expect, including speaking through those of His choosing.

 

[grafted branch]

Those are the terms placed by God that can only be revealed as true or false by the same Spirit which inspired the scriptures and those sent. So, only by the Spirit can we come to know what is true and what is not--which, if embraced, eliminates the "flesh and blood" component which Christ declared would not be the construct of His church. Matthew 16:17 Those are the terms--from Jesus.

So, yes, the Bride is to be silent in church--that "it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you." Matthew 10:20 Which is to say, not even by every member of the body, but only the "some" of His choosing, according to His giving of spiritual gifts. Ephesians 4. --And who is it that would reject these God appointed terms?

Who indeed...and yet there are even some here who categorically reject everything and everyone that does not agree with what they understand by their own interpretation or learning.

Thus. to answer your question: We ought to seek rather His face and turn not to flesh and blood, not to people, knowing however that it is His way to show up even where we least expect, including speaking through those of His choosing.

Yes, I had 2 Timothy 2:15 thrown in my face saying I’m not correctly dividing the truth several times.

A true believer thinks they are dividing the truth correctly, if a believer recognizes they aren’t dividing correctly they change their view to make sure it alines with the truth. If you didn’t correct yourself you wouldn’t be a believer in the first place.

There probably isn’t two people on the planet that agree on every single verse, so we’re all wrong somewhere in our dividing. A true believer should recognize this knowing that all true believers genuinely think they are right or at least admit they aren’t certain on what ever topic is being discussed.

As you say some people categorically think everyone else is not dividing the scriptures correctly and they don’t ever seem to recognize the possibility exists that they themselves are wrong. Their sword is never sharpened against another sword.

This attribute, I would say, isn’t one of the fruits of the Spirit and I suppose we should be praying for those expressing that characteristic.

 

[ScottA]

Yes, I had 2 Timothy 2:15 thrown in my face saying I’m not correctly dividing the truth several times.

A true believer thinks they are dividing the truth correctly, if a believer recognizes they aren’t dividing correctly they change their view to make sure it alines with the truth. If you didn’t correct yourself you wouldn’t be a believer in the first place.

There probably isn’t two people on the planet that agree on every single verse, so we’re all wrong somewhere in our dividing. A true believer should recognize this knowing that all true believers genuinely think they are right or at least admit they aren’t certain on what ever topic is being discussed.

As you say some people categorically think everyone else is not dividing the scriptures correctly and they don’t ever seem to recognize the possibility exists that they themselves are wrong. Their sword is never sharpened against another sword.

This attribute, I would say, isn’t one of the fruits of the Spirit and I suppose we should be praying for those expressing that characteristic.

Well stated. I guess it would be fair to say--the only exceptions are made by God. Which is the point.