Biblical justification for harming or killing followers of Jesus
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Pavel Mosko
Active Member
You talking about wars between Christian countries and such? I guess I would point to the book of Hebrews talking about "Natural and Spiritual Israel", that Christians are the people of God, metaphorically speaking. You had times where Israel fought each other, due to rebellion etc. It follows that if one side is more or less in the wrong, due to having a selfish leader or worse, that the other side might have to fight them to protect the needs of it's citizenry. I mean we had the Civil War in America and I can think of other things that might happen now if certain parties had their way. Besides the needs of the people, we should not even forget things like Korrah's Rebellion, or prince Absalom. And on top of that, some kind of corruption and compromise with idolatry was always an issue with ancient Israel. Basically even good kings like maybe Hezekiah or Josiah that removed high places, sacred groves, kill priests of Bhaal did not go far enough according to what God wanted, aka complete removal of all foreign worship. It also is interesting on this topic to think of New Testament parallels like Christ overturning the money changer tables etc. OR Christ coming back at the end of the Age, with a sword in his mouth to judge the living and the dead. This sort of thing actually reminds of Abraham, Melchizedek, other patriarchs and Judges asalmost archetypal Priest Kings. Leading war parties was a thing in the early days at times for noble causes, and could be seen as them having to have dominion and do what is necessary in a sin fallen world.
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Thanks. I was referring to any scenario at all.
If I’m understanding you correctly - and please correct me if I’m not - you would point to the NT Book of Hebrews as justification for followers of Jesus to kill fellow followers of Jesus.
A follow-up question for clarification: Do you think Jesus expects his followers to kill one another under certain specific circumstances?
Pavel Mosko
Active Member
lol I think Christian end up fighting each other for a variety of concerns: a)Bad leadership on at least one side, b) various earthly issues that have importance in the as far as practical living or less sympathetic reasons.. One thing that should be highlighted is how issues are framed. Going back ten years or more, I have been surprised on places like Facebook I have been surprised how oversimplified certain issues were presented. Two examples. 1) How you were a bad guy, or uncaring like the Priest and the Levite in the parable of the Good Samaritan if you were against the large migrant caravans coming over crossing the border illegally into the US. And more controversially, I have played Devil's Advocate for Russia in the war in Ukraine, that the issue is more complicated than the usual "Good Guys vs, Bad Guys" narrative that get's told in the media. There are a lot more things going on going back to the days of Communism and Gorbachev, and even beyond that, where if you take everything into account the West is more hypocritical in areas of breaking promises, wanting to intervene in areas like Bosnia, but not wanting to realize that Russia has similar sentiments like the Monroe Doctrine, or wanting to stop ethnic cleansing of their Slavic relatives, or even not wanting weapons with Strategic 1st Strike Capabilities on their door steps like the US objected to in the Cuban missile crisis.
Besides all that their are other spiritual implications. Like the Wars between Protestants and Catholics, and similar things in history in the Eastern and Oriental Christian world. That sort of thing is kind of legitimate if you really are convinced that someone is heretical or apostate and has a False Faith. Hasn't happened a lot in Christianity, usually wars were actually mediated from having some kind of religious heritage in Common. This was a major issues back in the day before Islam, when Zoroastrianism was around, and sort of became an issue with Islam, as far as how you related to that religion pro or Con. In some cases, people welcomed Islam initially like the Copts in Egypt after facing Imperial persecution from the Byzantine Empire. But this kind of thing was important in some events most people don't know about like this. St. Vartan and the Battle of Avarayr - The Armenian Church
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Those are good observations. I agree that Christians have a wide variety of astonishing reasons and reasoning for harming and killing Christians.
What do you think Jesus thinks about his followers harming and killing one another?
“You are not following Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”
What do you say about that?
I’ve answered your question hundreds of times. (Yes, they do.)
When they do, they’re not following the teaching and example of Jesus and the apostles.
I asked you a question that you failed to answer.
There is no biblical justification for followers of Jesus to harm or kill fellow followers of Jesus.
Nor to kill anyone else.
Hundreds of times? In what universe?
You say they do, so then what, you believe there are armies of "Christian murders" out there?
What makes you think a man who is a murderer is a Christian? What makes you think the armies of killers are Christians?
What do I say about your quote? I don't dignify with an answer. Anyone can say anything they like.
Read your Bible.
Read my posts.
Read my posts.
Read my posts.
Why?
It’s the teaching of @Wrangler, and it has received support from members who are registered here as “Christian”. I’ve opposed it vigorously. (I’m not looking for support from you; just interested in what you think about it.)
My admonition to all and sundry, which you would know if you were a regular reader of my posts.
Non-answers. The usual.
Ah. Triangulation. What I think about Wrangler I'll address to him.
To you . . . who says Christians are killing Christians? You are. Who else? And is it true? Hm?
You continue to avoid my original question to you. I suppose I know why.
I answered.
I couldn’t care less what you think about @Wrangler. What I wanted to know is where you stand on his teaching. (I told you where I stand on it.)
See the multiple threads on the Crusades.
I answered your original question -> “Yes, I do.” I then pointed out that when they do they aren’t following the teaching and example of Jesus and the apostles. (See post #10.)
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Why do you want to continue to talk about this topic? Only a few percentage of Christians have actually killed people. You act as though it is the whole show.
You do? You kill Christians?
Are you admitting to murder? Or just that you aren't really paying that much attention?
What I'm seeing is that you declare Christians to be murderers without just cause. Empty accusations to create division.
Pavel Mosko
Active Member
I think until we hit the New Jerusalem that descends from heaven like the end of the Book of Revelation there is going to times where this is going to happen. I think it would be fair game to ask you some kind of scenario question like "How would you get the "Christian" South to give up on having African slaves during the American Civil War?
So the solution to social problems is to kill the people causing the problem, even if they are Christians killing Christians?
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