Good job
how many mothers do the sons of Jacob have ?
now how are Jesus brothers related to Jesus?
Biblical Mary
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how many mothers do the sons of Jacob have ?
now how are Jesus brothers related to Jesus?
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
It is found in a book called the Two Babylons by A. Hislop. If I have time I will hunt down some online references.
Don't bother.
That book has been utterly discredited.
Firstly his claims turned out to be bogus. He simply invented information about Babylonia which doesn’t exist. Likewise his diagrams and sketches were just a product of his imagination,
Secondly he made links without any causal evidence, avoiding more realistic causal links. For example he claimed that the Babylonians offered round wafers to their God, the same a Catholic hosts at the Catholic Mass. His Babylonian claim was false, he showed no link as to how the Catholic Church took this from Babylon, and ignored the obvious point that the Matzo bread which Jesus broke at the last supper was flat round unleavened bread. Also manna is described as round (Ex 16:14) and like wafers (Ex16:31)
As Wikipedia says: "tribute to historical inaccuracy and know-nothing religious bigotry" with "shoddy scholarship, blatant dishonesty" and a "nonsensical thesis".[3][4]
The Two Babylons - Wikipedia
The two bits in quotation marks are referenced in footnotes [3][4] in Wikipedia as from
[3] Book Review: Plan 9 From Saturday Christian Book Reviews November 12th, 2005
[4] Book Review: Honesty is the Best Policy Christian Book Reviews November 12th, 2005
Hislop’s claims were extensively investigated by Ralph Woodrow, an evangelical minister who completely destroyed Hislop’s claims in his book The Babylon Connection?
The reviewer of Woodrow's The Babylon Connection? says:
The Babylon Connection? is a devastating critique of Hislop and his many imitators. Almost from the first page, the shoddy scholarship, blatant dishonesty, and personal prejudices of Alexander Hislop are quite evident. By the end of the first chapter, none except those suffering from “black helicopters over America” paranoia could possibly view Hislop as anything but a crackpot and a fraud. Woodrow presses on, however, and in painstaking detail demonstrates Hislop’s lack of scholarly integrity. As one who was formerly believed Hislop to be a credible source, Woodrow understands the mindset of those fooled by this belief system and he leaves their delusions in tatters. When it is over, nothing of Hislop’s rhetorical edifice is left standing.
(Mythicist Milwaukee)
Edit: I've just checked out this link and it no longer points to the review.
Despite this extensive debunking of Hislop’s claims you will find them rampant among anti-Catholic web sites, which feed off each other. Gullible Christians still assume they are true and the Catholic Church is a pagan version of Babylonian religion.
I'll give you more about Ralph Woodrow and his book if you want it.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well maybe you should do your own research and look at teh myths of osirus and the Mithra and other pre Christ legends of a perpetual virgin who was sinless.
but I need just one verse from Scripture to know Mary was a sinner and one verse from the bible to know that Mary had other children.
And Woodrow is nto th ecritic I would use if I were you.
It has been discredited by some and upheld by othersd, so to say it has been utterly discredited is a falsehood. I personally chased down His research and found most to be completely credible that I verified. Haven't done it for all but theones I was burdened to check.
If you are into these Catholic Church is pagan myths I feel sorry for you. You are utterly gullible. You'll tell me next that you believe Jack Chick and his comics!
As for Ralph Woodrow. He has not been discredited.
An Evangelical Minister, Ralph Woodrow, produced a book based largely on Hislop's called Babylon Mystery Religion, which sold widely and was translated into several languages. He says that few challenged his book. One who did was Scott Klemm, a high school history teacher in Southern California.
Woodrow writes:
“Being a Christian and appreciating other things I had written, he began to show me evidence that Hislop was not a reliable historian. As a result I realised that I needed to go though Hislop's work, my basic source, and prayerfully check it out.
As I did this it became clear – Hislop's “history” was often only mythology. Even though some myths may sometimes reflect events that actually happened, an arbitrary piecing together of ancient myths cannot provide a sound basis for history.”
Woodrow went on the investigate Hislop's claims consulting many reliable sources. He wrote another book called The Babylonian Connection? in which he demolished Hislop's claims.
Woodrow says:
Here is a list of the some of the unsubstantiated claims that are made about the religion of ancient Babylon:
• The Babylonians went to a confessional and confessed sins to priests who wore black clergy garments.
• Their king, Nimrod, was born on December 25. Round decorations on Christmas trees and round communion wafers honoured him as the Sun-god.
• Sun-worshippers went to their temples weekly, on Sunday, to worship the Sun-god.
• Nimrod’s wife was Semiramis, who claimed to be the Virgin Queen of Heaven, and was the mother of Tammuz.
• Tammuz was killed by a wild boar when he was age 40; so 40 days of Lent were set aside to honour his death.
• The Babylonians wept for him on “Good Friday.” They worshipped a cross-the initial letter of his name.
It is amazing how unsubstantiated teachings like these circulate—and are believed. One can go to any library, check any history book about ancient Babylon, none of these things will be found. They are not historically accurate, but are based on an arbitrary piecing together of bits and pieces of mythology.
http://www.ralphwoodrow.org/books/pa...n-mystery.html
Take the claim that "Nimrod’s wife was Semiramis, who claimed to be the Virgin Queen of Heaven, and was the mother of Tammuz"
Woodrow says he consulted many reference works including:
The Encyclopaedia Americana
The Encyclopaedia Britannica
The Encyclopaedia Judaica
The Encyclopaedia of Religion
The New Catholic Encyclopaedia
The World Book Encyclopedia.
None of the works he consulted make any mention of Nimrod and Semiramis being husband and wife.
Not only that but the information given rules it out.
The Encyclopaedia Americana and The Encyclopaedia Britannica say Semiramis (or Sammu-ramat). As she was called by the Assyrians was the wife of Shamshi-Adad V who reigned 823-811 BC. (Sammu-ramat | queen of Assyria)
Nimrod on the other hand is identified by some scholars as Sargon the Great (who lived about 2600 BC), others with Gilgamesh (who lived about 2200 BC), other with the Egyptian monarch Amenophis III (about 1411 BC), others with the Assyrianor Tukulti-Ninurti I (about 1246 BC).
So Semiramis and Nimrod lived several centuries apart and could not be husband and wife.
Proving The jezebel spirit does not apply to Mary most holy, ever virgin mother of God!
Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel...
someone said Mary is this jezebel or this jezebel spirit...
Lk 1:28 Hail, Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou amounts women.
How can God full jezebel with grace?
Hail Mary full of grace!
How can the Lord be with jezebel?
The lord is with thee!
How can jezebel be blessed!
Blessed art thou, and all generations shall call me blessed!
Lk 1: 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
How can jezebel be the mother of God?
Lk 1: 45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.
How could jezebel be faithful?
Lk 1: 46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
How could jezebel have a savior?
Lk 1:48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
How could jesebel be humble?
Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
How could jesebel be the immaculate conception and the have the Holy Spirit accomplish the Miraculous conception of Jesus?
Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
How could jezebel be a perpetual Virgin bringing forth the savior of the world?
Jn 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
How could jezebel be our spiritual mother?
A good tree!
Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!
Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel...
someone said Mary is this jezebel or this jezebel spirit...
Lk 1:28 Hail, Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou amounts women.
How can God full jezebel with grace?
Hail Mary full of grace!
How can the Lord be with jezebel?
The lord is with thee!
How can jezebel be blessed!
Blessed art thou, and all generations shall call me blessed!
Lk 1: 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
How can jezebel be the mother of God?
Lk 1: 45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.
How could jezebel be faithful?
Lk 1: 46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
How could jezebel have a savior?
Lk 1:48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
How could jesebel be humble?
Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
How could jesebel be the immaculate conception and the have the Holy Spirit accomplish the Miraculous conception of Jesus?
Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
How could jezebel be a perpetual Virgin bringing forth the savior of the world?
Jn 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
How could jezebel be our spiritual mother?
A good tree!
Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!
I want to know who was standing GUARD in Mary and Joseph's bedroom to PROVE that they did not consummate their marriage vows???
I can say the sky is RED... all I want ... but the fact remains.... the sky is NOT RED....
Mary was human... she was a sinner... and she was married to Joseph.... It only stands to reason that they would have partaken in all the activities that marriage holds....
This is simply another example of very bad and damaging THEOLOGY of the Catholic Church.
I can say the sky is RED... all I want ... but the fact remains.... the sky is NOT RED....
Mary was human... she was a sinner... and she was married to Joseph.... It only stands to reason that they would have partaken in all the activities that marriage holds....
This is simply another example of very bad and damaging THEOLOGY of the Catholic Church.
Can you prove they did?
Can you prove that?
Your reason perhaps - but that is not proof.
It's an example of your bad theology to believe the things you do.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
already existing human material taken from a man's body. Well; if God could
construct an entire woman from a man's body, then it shouldn't be too hard
for him to construct a teensy little male chromosome from a woman's body.
Now; it was essential that Jesus' Y chromosome not be created ex nihilo
because he had to be fully Man. Were his Y chromosome to be made from
something other than an already existing human body, then Jesus would
only be partially Man but not fully Man, nor would he be fully related to
David as Rom 1:3 attests.
_
In the beginning, God constructed a fully functioning woman from some
already existing human material taken from a man's body. Well; if God could
construct an entire woman from a man's body, then it shouldn't be too hard
for him to construct a teensy little male chromosome from a woman's body.
Now; it was essential that Jesus' Y chromosome not be created ex nihilo
because he had to be fully Man. Were his Y chromosome to be made from
something other than an already existing human body, then Jesus would
only be partially Man but not fully Man, nor would he be fully related to
David as Rom 1:3 attests.
_
great comeback @Mungo .... that is my point.... Catholics are making false statements... and are way too hung up on Mary... making all kinds of false claims about her... denying her marriage even.
Repetitive prayers to her... statues of her... It's all idolatry.
I have walked out of BAD THEOLOGY... and now I am FREE.... Catholic number 3 on IGNORE today... but my bad for coming here... I will not make any more comments on this thread.
Repetitive prayers to her... statues of her... It's all idolatry.
I have walked out of BAD THEOLOGY... and now I am FREE.... Catholic number 3 on IGNORE today... but my bad for coming here... I will not make any more comments on this thread.
Sooo! No evidence for your claims.
You are just bad mouthing the Catholic Church and refuse to substantiate your claims or discuss them.
I call that despicable.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
first the apostles teach the perpetual virginity of Mary matt 16:18 19:18 bound on earth acts 2:38 doctrine of the apostles
Perpetual Virginity of Mary!
Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649) with the jurisdictional authority of Peter and the apostles in holy council!
the Protestant fore fathers taught it also
Martin Luther
It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)
John Calvin
(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)
[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)
Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])
John Wesley
‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).
It defends the divinity church of christ
For only God is born of a Virgin-mother
mary is mother of God Lk 1:43
you won’t find Protestant in the Bible or biblical but only catholic
faithful obedience not rebellion Jn 15:1
ah that reads
Luk 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
when Lord is referring to God in KJV its capitalized LORD
also in the new American bible posted by the Vatican website:
Luk 1:43 And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
and the same follows the KJV in the matter of the use of the word lord:
Gen 2:4 1 Such is the story of the heavens and the earth at their creation. At the time when the LORD God made the earth and the heavens
so your "mother of God" statement is erroneous which debunks all the rest of the "mother of God" theology.
also what is said about who is also demonstrated here:
Luk_20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
is Jesus God that's a good question but we do know He is the Word of God made flesh and we know the Word of God was in the beginning so Mary isn't the mother of the Word of God and Jesus being the Word of God is God to anything not God. she the mother of the Son of man who is Elizabeth's Lord King Master Rabbi High Priest Messiah so on and so forth.
there is a difference between the LORD God and some one's Lord.
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Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
I have seen many discussions on Christian forums related to Jesus' kin folk.
Every one of those discussions-- no exception -- has gone on and on and on
in perpetual debating that never gets to the bottom of anything.
_
I have seen many discussions on Christian forums related to Jesus' kin folk.
Every one of those discussions-- no exception -- has gone on and on and on
in perpetual debating that never gets to the bottom of anything.
_
I just apologized to you for posting on your thread.... I'd take it if I were you... Just sayin....
I'm trying very hard to stay out of all these discussions... it seems like the forums have EXPLODED and these topics are EVERY WHERE.
I will have to be more careful to make sure I LOOK at who is starting these threads before I comment.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
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