Biblical Mary
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Double negative. Did the early reformers AFFIRM Mary's sinlessness?
My wife is not an academic historian. She knows her Bible and goes by that, not one other people say.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
To come to the conclusion that Mary was sinless requires an exercise in extra-biblical vain speeches, fair words, and a mind of a simpleton.
"For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." (Romans 16:18)
"For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." (Romans 16:18)
WHAAAAT?
Scripture says no such thing.
Gen 3:13 says no such thing.
No, I do not deny what Scripture says.
I definately deny what YOU say.
No!
Mary was created and made earthly.
Mary's seed was earthly.
Mary's womb was earthly.
Mary's DNA was earthly.
God IS the creator and maker.
Jesus is Gods SEED.
Christ is God POWER.
Jesus is the Last Adam.
Jesus is CHRIST; Spirit that quickens.
John 1:
[12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
[13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Gal 3:
[16] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
1 Cor 15:
[45] And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
* God PREPARED a BODY FOR HIS SEED.
* Gods SEED "IS" Gods WORD.
* Gods WORD came forth out from Gods MOUTH, In the Body God PREPARED.
* THAT Prepared Body WAS SENT, FROM HEAVEN, TO EARTH, TO Mary's Virgin WOMB.
* That BODY God Prepared for HIS WORD;
WAS A BODY that "LOOKED LIKE" A HUMAN MANS BODY.
* That BODY was SEEN BY Earthly Human men, AND CALLED...."A MAN".
Isa 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it (Gods WORD) shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
* TOOK UPON HIMSELF...THE FORM OF A SERVANT.
Phil 2:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Rom 8:
[3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Phil 2:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
* Earthly FLESH MEN ARE CORRUPT.
(Including Mary and every other EARTHLY Human).
* The WORD of God Came FORTH OUT FROM GODS MOUTH...
* TOOK UPON HIMSELF THE FORM in the LIKENESS OF EARTHLY MEN.
* OBVIOUSLY you utterly IGNORE through your own Ignorance, "WHAT IS UNDER THAT FORM" the Lord TOOK UPON HIMSELF...
* WHAT you IGNORE, IS WHAT you CAN NOT SEE.
* WHAT you CAN NOT SEE, is the SEED OF GOD.
* WHAT men COULD SEE, IS MARY.
WHAT you have concocted IS MARY'S "SEED", (egg), IS WHAT God "fertalized" to bring forth
The Son of God!
* What Scripture REVEALS...IS GODS SEED IS HIS WORD OF TRUTH.
* GOD PLANTS HIS SEED "IN" things OF Gods CHOOSING.
* GODS SEED PROSPERS "IN" the thing Gods SENDS HIS WORD TO.
* GOD SENT HIS SEED (WORD), IN A BODY GOD PREPARED, IN the "LIKENESS" as a (human, earthly) MAN, to MARY'S VIRGIN WOMB...
* Gods SEED, Was Revealed to the WORLD, having Come Forth out of Mary's Womb.
* Obviously what you IGNORE through your own Ignorance...
IS Gods SEED, (WORD) Came FORTH OUT FROM GODS MOUTH, IN HEAVEN and WAS SENT TO EARTH, TO Mary's VIRGIN WOMB....
* Mary's human seed, (egg) DNA, blood, will of her earthly flesh....Contributed NOT ONE IOTA, TO GODS WORKS, OF GOD SENDING "HIS WORD, HIS SEED, HIS PREPARED BODY"
TO: Mary's VIRGIN WOMB.
John 1:
[13] B] Which were born,
* YOUR THEORY IS is DOWN THE DRAIN.
The WORD OF GOD, WAS BORN OF GOD, WHEN GODS WORD IN HEAVEN, CAME FORTH OUT OF GODS MOUTH.
* Gods OWN WORD, verifies, Gods WORD WAS BORN OUT OF GOD IN HEAVEN and SENT TO EARTH, TO A VIRGIN WOMB.
John 1:13 (quoted above).
John 16: (Jesus speaking).
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
Your THEORY is debunked by Scripture itself.
The Word of God Was BORN OF GOD, BEFORE, the Word of God Was SENT FROM HEAVEN, to Mary's Virgin Womb, ON Earth.
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
Martin Luther:
Yet again the Immaculate Conception was a doctrine Luther defended to his death (as confirmed by Lutheran scholars like Arthur Piepkorn). Like Augustine, Luther saw an unbreakable link between Mary's divine maternity, perpetual virginity and Immaculate Conception. Although his formulation of the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was not clear-cut, he held that her soul was devoid of sin from the beginning:
John Calvin:
It has been said that John Calvin belonged to the second generation of the Reformers and certainly his theology of double predestination governed his views on Marian and all other Christian doctrine . Although Calvin was not as profuse in his praise of Mary as Martin Luther he did not deny her perpetual virginity. The term he used most commonly in referring to Mary was "Holy Virgin".
Ulrich Zwingli:
We might wonder why the Marian affirmations of the Reformers did not survive in the teaching of their heirs - particularly the Fundamentalists. This break with the past did not come through any new discovery or revelation. The Reformers themselves (see above) took a benign even positive view of Marian doctrine - although they did reject Marian mediation because of their rejection of all human mediation.
Moreover, while there were some excesses in popular Marian piety, Marian doctrine as taught in the pre-Reformation era drew its inspiration from the witness of Scripture and was rooted in Christology. The real reason for the break with the past must be attributed to the iconoclastic passion of the followers of the Reformation and the consequences of some Reformation principles. Even more influential in the break with Mary was the influence of the Enlightenment Era which essentially questioned or denied the mysteries of faith.
+++
Unfortunately the Marian teachings and preachings of the Reformers have been "covered up" by their most zealous followers - with damaging theological and practical consequences. This "cover-up" can be detected even in Chosen by God: Mary in Evangelical Perspective, an Evangelical critique of Mariology. One of the contributors admits that "Most remarkable to modern Protestants is the Reformers' almost universal acceptance of Mary's continuing virginity, and their widespread reluctance to declare Mary a sinner". He then asks if it is "a favourable providence" that kept these Marian teachings of the Reformers from being "transmitted to the Protestant churches"!17
What is interpreted as "Providence" by a Marian critic may legitimately be interpreted as a force of a very different kind by a Christian who has recognized the role of Mary in God’s plan.
source
Yet again the Immaculate Conception was a doctrine Luther defended to his death (as confirmed by Lutheran scholars like Arthur Piepkorn). Like Augustine, Luther saw an unbreakable link between Mary's divine maternity, perpetual virginity and Immaculate Conception. Although his formulation of the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was not clear-cut, he held that her soul was devoid of sin from the beginning:
"But the other conception, namely the infusion of the soul, it is piously and suitably believed, was without any sin, so that while the soul was being infused, she would at the same time be cleansed from original sin and adorned with the gifts of God to receive the holy soul thus infused. And thus, in the very moment in which she began to live, she was without all sin..."3
John Calvin:
It has been said that John Calvin belonged to the second generation of the Reformers and certainly his theology of double predestination governed his views on Marian and all other Christian doctrine . Although Calvin was not as profuse in his praise of Mary as Martin Luther he did not deny her perpetual virginity. The term he used most commonly in referring to Mary was "Holy Virgin".
"Elizabeth called Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God."7
"Helvidius has shown himself too ignorant, in saying that Mary had several sons, because mention is made in some passages of the brothers of Christ."8 Calvin translated "brothers" in this context to mean cousins or relatives.
"It cannot be denied that God in choosing and destining Mary to be the Mother of his Son, granted her the highest honor."9
"To this day we cannot enjoy the blessing brought to us in Christ without thinking at the same time of that which God gave as adornment and honour to Mary, in willing her to be the mother of his only-begotten Son."10
"It cannot be denied that God in choosing and destining Mary to be the Mother of his Son, granted her the highest honor."9
"To this day we cannot enjoy the blessing brought to us in Christ without thinking at the same time of that which God gave as adornment and honour to Mary, in willing her to be the mother of his only-begotten Son."10
Ulrich Zwingli:
"It was given to her what belongs to no creature, that in the flesh she should bring forth the Son of God."11
"I firmly believe that Mary, according to the words of the gospel as a pure Virgin brought forth for us the Son of God and in childbirth and after childbirth forever remained a pure, intact Virgin."12 Zwingli used Exodus 4:22 to defend the doctrine of Mary's perpetual virginity.
"I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary."13
"Christ ... was born of a most undefiled Virgin."14
"It was fitting that such a holy Son should have a holy Mother."15
"The more the honor and love of Christ increases among men, so much the esteem and honor given to Mary should grow."16
+++"I firmly believe that Mary, according to the words of the gospel as a pure Virgin brought forth for us the Son of God and in childbirth and after childbirth forever remained a pure, intact Virgin."12 Zwingli used Exodus 4:22 to defend the doctrine of Mary's perpetual virginity.
"I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary."13
"Christ ... was born of a most undefiled Virgin."14
"It was fitting that such a holy Son should have a holy Mother."15
"The more the honor and love of Christ increases among men, so much the esteem and honor given to Mary should grow."16
We might wonder why the Marian affirmations of the Reformers did not survive in the teaching of their heirs - particularly the Fundamentalists. This break with the past did not come through any new discovery or revelation. The Reformers themselves (see above) took a benign even positive view of Marian doctrine - although they did reject Marian mediation because of their rejection of all human mediation.
Moreover, while there were some excesses in popular Marian piety, Marian doctrine as taught in the pre-Reformation era drew its inspiration from the witness of Scripture and was rooted in Christology. The real reason for the break with the past must be attributed to the iconoclastic passion of the followers of the Reformation and the consequences of some Reformation principles. Even more influential in the break with Mary was the influence of the Enlightenment Era which essentially questioned or denied the mysteries of faith.
+++
Unfortunately the Marian teachings and preachings of the Reformers have been "covered up" by their most zealous followers - with damaging theological and practical consequences. This "cover-up" can be detected even in Chosen by God: Mary in Evangelical Perspective, an Evangelical critique of Mariology. One of the contributors admits that "Most remarkable to modern Protestants is the Reformers' almost universal acceptance of Mary's continuing virginity, and their widespread reluctance to declare Mary a sinner". He then asks if it is "a favourable providence" that kept these Marian teachings of the Reformers from being "transmitted to the Protestant churches"!17
What is interpreted as "Providence" by a Marian critic may legitimately be interpreted as a force of a very different kind by a Christian who has recognized the role of Mary in God’s plan.
source
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Illuminator
Well-Known Member
Tell that to your spiritual forefathers. You've dogmatized a flip flop that isn't very old. The cover up continues.
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No kidding! Not all flesh is not the Same.
Which IS EXACTLY WHAT IS SAID!
Which IS THE EXACT POINT I already Revealed WITH Scripture, that you whined about.
Really? Jesus showed "YOU", His Glorified Body?
No He didn't.
"IF HUMAN EYES COULD SEE, GODS GLORIFIED BODY...He would have had no NEED TO have a PREPARED A BODY FOR HUMAN EYES TO SEE!"
...the Word of God was SENT TO Earth...in a Body God Prepared...with a NAME God proclaimed...JESUS. Called the Son of man...
Revealed BY Gods WORD...The Son of man (WOULD BE KNOWN, and WOULD BE CALLED; The Son OF GOD).
Jesus; the Son of man, WOULD BE, Alone, (in the Garden of Gethsemane, because other men slept) in utter fear of his known coming torturous death, without ONE other man comforting him, BECAUSE, they IGNORED Jesus' request to stay awake, and instead SLEPT)...then arrived the Roman soldiers and physically, captured the Son of man, (who willfully surrendered to the Roman soldiers)...Then the Son of man, was sent before three councils of men, Then the Son of man, was brutality, scourged with whips of leather and steel and (likely shards of animal bones), Beaten, Whipped; Then the Son of man was given a "cross" beam to carry and shoved and prodded walk, by Roman soldiers;
Up a rocky path to a hill outside of Jerusalem. That path was Lined with naysayers....Yelling, Spitting, Laughing, throwing things....at the Son of man...profusely bleeding, in agony, stumbling..
Once at the hill, this Son of man...WAS stripped naked of his tattered clothing, Stripped naked, Then a Cap (not a wreath) of Thorns smashed down upon his head, Nailed down with a metal through his hands, throught his feet to an column and the column stood upright. The naysayers continued their cheers of joy at the sight of this Son of man, unrecognizable as a man, dripping of blood, flesh ripped and torn hanging from Cross, in agonizing in pain...
( THE UTTER PURE EVIL and WICKEDNESS of ANY human man CHEERING and in PLEASURE at the sight of ANYONE suffering an agonizing torturous death... UNFATHOMABLE!!!)
You have BEEN TOLD and SHOWN, repeatedly; BY Gods OWN WORD...
Gods WORD, IS GOD.
God PREPARED a BODY for HIS WORD.
THAT PREPARED BODY, EXPRESSLY WAS NOT "procreated" from a HUMAN Seed!!!
THAT BODY WAS SENT FORTH FROM HEAVEN OUT OF GODS MOUTH, TO A HUMAN WOMB.
THAT BODY WAS REVEALED TO THE WORLD, COMING FORTH OUT OF A HUMAN VIRGIN WOMB, IT WAS SENT TO!
THAT BODY WAS EXPRESSLY CALLED:
THE Son of man; THE NAME JESUS.
THAT BODY, THE Son of man, was beaten, scourged, nail to a Cross.
THE naysayers...CHEERING...with their HUMAN EYES ...ONLY SAW what appeared to them, was human man.
THE mourners...with their HUMAN EYES SAW the "LIKENESS" of a human man, (God had Sent)...BUT KNEW IN THEIR HEART, (not their human EYES) HE WAS THE Christ
* YOU TEACH A CORRUPTION OF Gods TRUTH.
* YOU teach from the perspective of a naysayer....that "JESUS WAS A HUMAN man" going so far as to preach...Jesus was procreated from a Human womans seed...
* Scripture EXPRESSLY REJECTS Jesus was CREATED, and certainly NOT procreated from a HUMAN SEED.
* Scriptures EXPRESSLY REVEALS...The Word OF GOD HIMSELF, TOOK UPON HIMSELF....the "LIKENESS", the BODY, the FORM, that "LOOKED expressly LIKE A HUMAN man"....(expressly SO HUMAN MEN with their LIMITED HUMAN EYESIGHT, COULD SEE HIM!)
**** ANY human man, with an OUNCE of Wisdom, KNOWS, GOD IS SPIRIT, and too HOLY to be SEEN by HUMAN EYES...
And KNOWS God is SUPREME POWER, and God can APPEAR TO HUMAN EYES....IN A Fashion, Body, Form...of Gods OWN GOOD MANNER of HIS Choosing.
[QUOTE Heb; 2:17
Therefore, IT WAS NECESSARYFOR HIM TO BE MADE IN EVERY RESPECT LIKE US, his brothers and sisters, so that he could be our merciful and faithful High Priest before God. Then he could offer a sacrifice that would take away the sins of the people.[/ QUOTE]
When you actually QUOTE Scripture...you reveal the truth of Gods Word.
When you speak YOUR OWN WORDS...YOU spew out what is NOT TRUE.
BOL -
Scripture expressly reveals EVERY RESPECT JESUS WAS IN MANS LIKENESS...
* in a womb 9 months
* came forth from a womb after 9 months.
* Looked like a Human man
* Called "a man"
* Legally A son of Joseph
* Legally A son of Mary
* legally A Jew
* legally NAMED Jesus.
* legally resistered in the Roman census of Jews, being of the household of his legal parents; Joseph and Mary
* legally circumcised foreskin
* legally Of the House of David
* legally Entitled to Sit on Davids throne
* legally a son of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, David..
* legally an heir of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, David.
* legally entitled to Abrahams Promised Land.
* Bodily Killed
* Bodily Buried in a cave.
* Visibly (that human eyes could see and human ears could see ) the Son of man, IN A BODY GOD PREPARED and SENT TO EARTH...had flesh, had bones, had blood, walked about, spoke, heard, got hungry, got thirsty, got tired, got afraid, got hurt, felt pain, got angry, felt compassion, ate food, drank water, drank wine, slept, prayed, bowed down, Worshiped God, exalted God in Heaven....
* IN ALL ASPECTS...satisfactory TO THE EYES OF HUMAN MEN, he WAS A human man.
AND IN OTHER RESPECTS HE WAS EXPRESSLY NOT "IN THE LIKENESS OF HUMAN MEN"...
He DID NOT come forth OUT of the Earth.
He DID NOT come forth OUT of from a human Seed.
He DID NOT come forth OUT of a DEFILED (loaded with mans sperm) human womb.
He DID NOT Bodily lie ROTTING, stinking in a buriel cave.
He DID NOT bodily turn to dust.
He was NEVER Called "a Human man".
Other-WISE...BY YOUR WISDOM???
The Sacrifice wasn't perfect?
Are you totally inept?
ALL Earthly HUMAN FLESH IS CORRUPT.
ALL Earthly HUMAN BLOOD IS CORRUPT.
NO CORRUPT HUMAN FLESH AND NO CORRUPT HUMAN BLOOD...Can Spiritually SAVE a HUMAN'S SOUL!
You preach the complete Opposite of Gods Truth.
A HUGE DIFFERENCE Between Gods TRUTH...
That GOD SENT HIS WORD IN THE "LIKENESS" as an (earthly) men.
AND your Truth...
That Gods SEED fertalized Mary's SEED and MARY reproduced A HUMAN MAN, From Her HUMAN SEED, Her DNA...she MADE A "HUMAN" man....that YOU SAY IS A HUMAN. And Further IF HE WAS "NOT" a HUMAN...
(according to YOUR WISDOM,) He was NOT a Perfect sacrifice of Flesh and Blood.
Utter NONSENSE!
All day long God IS BIRTHING spirits of men, WITH His SEED, TO MAKE MEN IN "Gods LIKENESS"...
BY your mindful logic...Human men who are MADE in Gods Likeness...MUST BE GOD...!
Ridiculous!
Scripture expressly reveals EVERY RESPECT JESUS WAS IN MANS LIKENESS...
* in a womb 9 months
* came forth from a womb after 9 months.
* Looked like a Human man
* Called "a man"
* Legally A son of Joseph
* Legally A son of Mary
* legally A Jew
* legally NAMED Jesus.
* legally resistered in the Roman census of Jews, being of the household of his legal parents; Joseph and Mary
* legally circumcised foreskin
* legally Of the House of David
* legally Entitled to Sit on Davids throne
* legally a son of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, David..
* legally an heir of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, David.
* legally entitled to Abrahams Promised Land.
* Bodily Killed
* Bodily Buried in a cave.
* Visibly (that human eyes could see and human ears could see ) the Son of man, IN A BODY GOD PREPARED and SENT TO EARTH...had flesh, had bones, had blood, walked about, spoke, heard, got hungry, got thirsty, got tired, got afraid, got hurt, felt pain, got angry, felt compassion, ate food, drank water, drank wine, slept, prayed, bowed down, Worshiped God, exalted God in Heaven....
* IN ALL ASPECTS...satisfactory TO THE EYES OF HUMAN MEN, he WAS A human man.
AND IN OTHER RESPECTS HE WAS EXPRESSLY NOT "IN THE LIKENESS OF HUMAN MEN"...
He DID NOT come forth OUT of the Earth.
He DID NOT come forth OUT of from a human Seed.
He DID NOT come forth OUT of a DEFILED (loaded with mans sperm) human womb.
He DID NOT Bodily lie ROTTING, stinking in a buriel cave.
He DID NOT bodily turn to dust.
He was NEVER Called "a Human man".
Other-WISE...BY YOUR WISDOM???
The Sacrifice wasn't perfect?
Are you totally inept?
ALL Earthly HUMAN FLESH IS CORRUPT.
ALL Earthly HUMAN BLOOD IS CORRUPT.
NO CORRUPT HUMAN FLESH AND NO CORRUPT HUMAN BLOOD...Can Spiritually SAVE a HUMAN'S SOUL!
You preach the complete Opposite of Gods Truth.
A HUGE DIFFERENCE Between Gods TRUTH...
That GOD SENT HIS WORD IN THE "LIKENESS" as an (earthly) men.
AND your Truth...
That Gods SEED fertalized Mary's SEED and MARY reproduced A HUMAN MAN, From Her HUMAN SEED, Her DNA...she MADE A "HUMAN" man....that YOU SAY IS A HUMAN. And Further IF HE WAS "NOT" a HUMAN...
(according to YOUR WISDOM,) He was NOT a Perfect sacrifice of Flesh and Blood.
Utter NONSENSE!
All day long God IS BIRTHING spirits of men, WITH His SEED, TO MAKE MEN IN "Gods LIKENESS"...
BY your mindful logic...Human men who are MADE in Gods Likeness...MUST BE GOD...!
Ridiculous!
BOL -
No, that warning is not for me.
I Never claimed to DENY Scripture.
YOU, as is your usual conniving devious method, made that FALSE CLAIM "FOR ME".
And not ONCE have I ever "accepted" your FALSE conniving devious claims for me!
And your pity "good luck"... is but yet more of your carnal minded nonsense....as IF LUCK has anything to do with Spiritual Understanding or Gods Spiritual Works!
The Son of man...Was revealed FOR the stiffnecked, stubborn, foolish dopes who COULD NOT BELIEVE IN the Heavenly God "WITHOUT" SEEING SOMETHING.
And the human men, who are too ignorant to understand, Jesus IS God, in the LIKENESS as a human.... that God IS the Creator, not the Created; are the same stiffnecked, stubborn, foolish dopes, who Preach Jesus IS a human.
Here's a Message of KNOWLEDGE FOR YOU;
EX 32;
[7] And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
[8] They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
[9] And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
[10] Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.
Here's a WARNING FOR YOU...
Deut 10:
[16] Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
2 Cor 30:
[8] Now be ye not Stiffnecked , as your fathers were, but yield yourselves unto the LORD, and enter into his sanctuary, which he hath sanctified for ever: and serve the LORD your God, that the fierceness of his wrath may turn away from you.
John 20:
[29] Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Teach, Preach, Worship your HUMAN MAN...and human woman, as you please.
You would not be the first Created Human, to WORSHIP Created Humans, over the Creator...And wax hot, Gods Wrath...
Just get yourself prepared for When Gods Wrath shall fall upon men who worship Human men.
No, that warning is not for me.
I Never claimed to DENY Scripture.
YOU, as is your usual conniving devious method, made that FALSE CLAIM "FOR ME".
And not ONCE have I ever "accepted" your FALSE conniving devious claims for me!
And your pity "good luck"... is but yet more of your carnal minded nonsense....as IF LUCK has anything to do with Spiritual Understanding or Gods Spiritual Works!
The Son of man...Was revealed FOR the stiffnecked, stubborn, foolish dopes who COULD NOT BELIEVE IN the Heavenly God "WITHOUT" SEEING SOMETHING.
And the human men, who are too ignorant to understand, Jesus IS God, in the LIKENESS as a human.... that God IS the Creator, not the Created; are the same stiffnecked, stubborn, foolish dopes, who Preach Jesus IS a human.
Here's a Message of KNOWLEDGE FOR YOU;
EX 32;
[7] And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
[8] They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
[9] And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
[10] Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.
Here's a WARNING FOR YOU...
Deut 10:
[16] Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
2 Cor 30:
[8] Now be ye not Stiffnecked , as your fathers were, but yield yourselves unto the LORD, and enter into his sanctuary, which he hath sanctified for ever: and serve the LORD your God, that the fierceness of his wrath may turn away from you.
John 20:
[29] Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Teach, Preach, Worship your HUMAN MAN...and human woman, as you please.
You would not be the first Created Human, to WORSHIP Created Humans, over the Creator...And wax hot, Gods Wrath...
Just get yourself prepared for When Gods Wrath shall fall upon men who worship Human men.
BreadOfLife
Well-Known Member
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Whenever I see one of your LOOOOONNNNGG verbose rants – I know that you are grasping for straws. A REAL student of Scripture is more concise.
First of all - yes, MARY'S SEED:
Gen. 3:15 (KJV)
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and HER SEED; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Luke 1:31 (KJV)
And, behold, THOU SHALT CONCEIVE IN THY WOMB, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
ALSO – some of the verses you provided were incomplete because you don’t include the entire CONTEXT.
Case in point - YOU posted:
Phil. 2:7
…but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
BUT, verse 8 says:
And being found in HUMAN form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
The Greek word, αντηροποσ (Anthropos) is used here, which is defined as, “HUMAN BEING”.
YOUR heresy id not new. It’s been around since the early centuries of the Church - and is a mix of Docetism and Monophysitism.
As for your idiotic use of John 1:13 – that verse is talking about CHRISTIANS, and not Christ.
Here is is in CONTEXT with verse 12:
John 1:12-13
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
So, instead of cherry-picking Bible verses OUT of context – learn to properly divide the Word of God to avoid revisiting centuries-old heresies . . .
BreadOfLife
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Once again, your LONG, psychotic rant is just more evidence of your Scriptural acrobatics . . .
I will destroy your argument with ONE verse:
1 Tim. 2:5 (KJV)
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
HOWEVER, the verse in Greek is more precise:
εἷς γὰρ θεός, εἷς καὶ μεσίτης θεοῦ καὶ ἀνθρώπων, ἄνθρωπος Χριστὸς Ἰησοῦς
Once again, the word "Anthropos" is used here, which is defined as "HUMAN BEING".
According to Strong's Greek Concordance, This verse literally translates as:
For there is one God and one intermediary between God and HUMANITY, Christ Jesus, himself HUMAN.
Game.
Set.
MATCH.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
All you did is show that when the Sepuigant was translated from Hebrew to Greek, they used the best word available to them in teh new language to try to bring it close as possible. But if you did any kind of real study you would know that. But I am done here. As much as I enjoy parsing split hairs with you, I have more important things to do like watch my grass grow!
You can spank me all you want- they remind me of how right I have been linguistically, historiocally, grammatically and biblically correct I have been in this ended discussion. Have th elast word if you wish.
Back to the OP.
Mary had lots of sex after Jesus was born.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Even JESUS himself was made in the same type of flesh as we all were . SO WHY does MARY have another type . EXACTLY .
Made in the likeness of sinful flesh . THE same flesh . Folks read hebrews .
And dont heed a word of the R double C .
Enmity between Devil and Eve.
Enmity between Devil and Eve's seed...
Eve's seed...
Cain, Abel, Seth.
Seth to Noah,
Noah to Abraham,
Abraham to David,
King David to Joseph, (who married Mary...ONE flesh of the House of David) to Jesus, Son of man.
Nothing to do with Mary's SEED...everything to do with Mary's husband Joseph of the Hous of David.
The Word of God Came down from Heaven, without His Reputation, in the likeness as a man, called the Son of man, called Jesus, Returned to Heaven. Sits in Heaven with His Reputation. Shall return to earth as the Son of Man, Jesus, with His Reputation; "Christ, the Power of God".
Too long, to little...boo hoo.
God is a Spirit.
A FORM is a Body.
God chose to take upon Himself a BODY He PREPARED...and the LOOK of the BODY He chose to PREPARE and take upon Himself....(WAS NOT a body LIKE an angel, WAS NOT a body LIKE an Animal, Was NOT a body LIKE a Fish)....expressly He took upon Himself....the BODY LIKE A SPECIFIC earthly man! (a Jew, a Servant of God) Sheesh Bible study 101!
Jews like SIGNS. Greeks like PHILOSOPHIES.
Catholics like RITUALS. I like Jesus' TRUTH.
Jesus' BODY came forth out from God IN Heaven and Returned to God IN Heaven.
Body's of Humans come forth out from the Earth and return to Earth. Mary was no exception.
So NARROW minded!
Sinless Son of man...was BORN of God
....Became He came forth OUT from God!
Sinless Son of God....was BORN of God.
....Because He came forth OUT from God!
Jews Converted IN Christ...were/are Born of God
.....Because they CONFESSED heartful Belief.
Gentiles Converted IN Christ..were /are Born of God.
....Because they CONFESSED heartful Belief.
Christian, Jew, Gentile, Catholic, Israeli .... are descriptions....None of those Words MEAN CONVERTED IN Chirst.
The Parallel Scripture is;
1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God[/U]
And the CONDITION OF WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD...
doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Jesus could not sin....because He was born of God.....WHEN HE CAME FORTH OUT FROM GOD.
Converted men can not sin....Because they are born of God....WHEN THEY BECOME CONVERTED IN CHRIST, Born of Gods Seed! (And NEVER does scripture teach....that Gods SEED fertilizes a Humans seed)...
LOL...DIVIDING the WORD OF TRUTH, REQUIRES CHERRY PICKING....otherwise you sit in the corner with a dunce hat, pretending everything you screech out APPLIES to EVERYONE....whether or not it is even in Scripture.
Mary had human flesh.
All humans have human flesh.
Jesus' flesh was in the LIKENESS as Human flesh...not in the SAMESNESS as human flesh
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Let no man , woman or child heed the r double c . Now , on that note , LET THE KING BE PRAISED . HEED CHRIST
and let us all learn those bibles well .
BreadOfLife
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2017
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And yet, you FAILED to prove that from Scripture - didn't you, my Sola Scripturist friend?
I gave you mountains of evidence to the contrary - and all YOU brought to the table were angry, anti-Catholic opinions . . .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
its good to see the lambs are not falling for the ruse of the R double C .
Stand firm on Christ and stay planted in those bibles my friends . And let all that has breath praise the glorious Lord .
Stand firm on Christ and stay planted in those bibles my friends . And let all that has breath praise the glorious Lord .
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Just admit the sources for Mary being sinless and an ever virgin are extra-Biblical, not the Word of God and irrelevant to salvation, then we can move on.
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