Biblical Mary

[Mungo]

These are Catholic sites. These are Catholics teaching. where is the paper from rome either by a pope or the college of cardinals saying this is not a teaching of Romanism? They are not so stupid as to not know these are near univertsally held teachings by Catholics. I have already admitted, they are not official dogma, but neither does the church officially discourage or seek to stop these teachings.

As for the ones you mentioned above? They are in the list of titles given to mary by th eRCC at some point in history. That long liost came from a catholic web site.

Doesn't matter what sites they were they do not say what you claimed.
None of them say that Mary is co-redeemer
None of them say Mary is the fount of all grace.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So you left the Catholic Church all bitter ans=d twisted because you didn't understand what you were taught.

YOu really suck at mind reading. so for this statement of yours- you got nothing right! Try again.

 

[Mungo]

Try another post you made. 1559 has nothing to dso with Mary and was not addressed to me.

For once you got something right.
It was post #1554

 

[Mungo]

Nice try but not one of over 35 english versions has th eword mortal sin.

1 John 5:16 Parallel: If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. (biblehub.com)

New American Standard Bible
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

NASB 1995
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

NASB 1977
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

Amplified Bible
All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death [one can repent of it and be forgiven].

Christian Standard Bible
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin that doesn’t lead to death.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin that does not bring death.

Contemporary English Version
Everything that is wrong is sin, but not all sins are deadly.

Good News Translation
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which does not lead to death.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, yet there are sins that don't lead to death.

International Standard Version
Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, yet there are sins that do not lead to death.

NET Bible
All unrighteousness is sin, but there is sin not resulting

New International Version
All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

New Living Translation
All wicked actions are sin, but not every sin leads to death.

English Standard Version
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

Berean Study Bible
All unrighteousness is sin, yet there is sin that does not lead to death.

King James Bible
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

New King James Version
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

King James 2000 Bible
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

New Heart English Bible
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

World English Bible
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

American King James Version
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not to death.

American Standard Version
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

A Faithful Version
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death.

Darby Bible Translation
Every unrighteousness is sin; and there is a sin not to death.

English Revised Version
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Webster's Bible Translation
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not to death.

Geneva Bible of 1587
All vnrighteousnesse is sinne, but there is a sinne not vnto death.

Bishops' Bible of 1568
All vnrighteousnes is sinne: and there is sinne vnto death.

Coverdale Bible of 1535
All vnrighteousnes is synne, and there is synne not vnto death.

Tyndale Bible of 1526
All vnrightewesnes is synne and ther is synne not vnto deeth.

Catholic Translations
Douay-Rheims Bible
All iniquity is sin. And there is a sin unto death.

Catholic Public Domain Version
All that is iniquity is sin. But there is a sin unto death.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For every evil is sin, and there is sin that is not mortal.

Lamsa Bible
All unrighteousness is sin: but there is a sin which is not worthy of death.

Anderson New Testament
All unrighteousness is sin; and there is a sin not to death.

Godbey New Testament
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is sin not unto death.

Haweis New Testament
All unrighteousness is sin; and there is sin not unto death.

Mace New Testament
every thing that is contrary to virtue, is a sin: but every sin is not a mortal sin:

Weymouth New Testament
Any kind of wrongdoing is sin; but there is sin which is not unto death.

Worrell New Testament
All unrighteousness is sin; and there is a sin not to death.

Worsley New Testament
All unrighteousness indeed is sin, and yet there is a sin not unto death

Literal Standard Version
all unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin [that is] not to death.

Berean Literal Bible
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not unto death.

Young's Literal Translation
all unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not unto death.

Smith's Literal Translation
All injustice is sin: and there is a sin not to death.

Literal Emphasis Translation
All unrighteousness is sin; and there is a sin not to deat

No one writes "mortal sin". For it is not in the greek. We can sin unto physical death. But not spiritual death. I can do the same with thenx tverse to prove to you your quote is a reinterpretation of Scripture that is wqrong.

To say one can lose their salvation is to say that jesus did not forgive all your sins which is a lie. It says that slavbation requires work which is a lie. It say that an all knowing god who knows past present and future knew a person would get salvation and then God would have to revoke that salvation which is a lie. It also denies what Jesus said in Matt. 7:

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

but according ot you , Jesu swould say to some- "I knew you once, but I don't know you now".

See post #1663

 

[Mungo]

Really? are you that ignorant or just being poorly deceptive.

Do you think it means that Jospeh and Mary had no communication? That Joseph didn't speak to Mary th ewhole trip to bethlehem or while she was giving birth etrc. I do not think you are that ignorant. That verse clearly shows that after jesus' birth they has sex. that is what "kknow" means in the language, if you bothered at all to look.




I showed you the verse that they had sex after jesus birth- you just want to play silly little word games.

I also showed you the verse that proves Jesus had half-brothers and half sisters. Once again I guess you have no understanding of what brothers and sisters mean.

Scripture doesn't say they had sex after Jesus birth.
Scripture doesn't say Mary had other children.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Doesn't matter what sites they were they do not say what you claimed.
None of them say that Mary is co-redeemer
None of them say Mary is the fount of all grace.

Mediatrix of All Graces | Mother of All Peoples

Mediatrix of all graces - Wikipedia

Mary Mediatrix of All Grace (marytruth.ca)

Is Mary Mediatrix of All Graces? (all-about-the-virgin-mary.com)

Our Jewish Roots: Mary, Dispenser of Grace (catholicexchange.com)

Dispense = fount look it up . all these Catholic sites and wiki which references Catholic teaching all show you don't know you rown churches teachings.

Doesn't matter what sites they were they do not say what you claimed.
None of them say that Mary is co-redeemer
None of them say Mary is the fount of all grace.

The Blessed Virgin Mary: Co-redemptrix - The Fatima Center

How Can Catholics Understand Mary as Co-Redemprix, Mediatrix of All Graces and Advocate? - Featured Today - Catholic Online

Mary Co-Redemptrix - Catholicism.org

Mary is Co-Redemptrix or Co-Redeemer, Why Catholic Teaching Shows us That (catholic-saints.net)

Now you can play your juvenile word games again, call all these catholic sites heretics or jsut stop lying about what teh catholic church teaches ort admit you don't know as much as you thinkyou know.

 

[Mungo]

No one writes "mortal sin". For it is not in the greek.

NRSV
If you see your brother or sister committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and God will give life to such a one—to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say that you should pray about that.
NRSVA
If you see your brother or sister committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and God will give life to such a one—to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say that you should pray about that.
NRSVACE
If you see your brother or sister committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and God will give life to such a one—to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say that you should pray about that.
NRSVCE
If you see your brother or sister committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and God will give life to such a one—to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say that you should pray about that.
RSV
If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that.
RSVCE
If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that.

 

[Mungo]

Mediatrix of All Graces | Mother of All Peoples

Mediatrix of all graces - Wikipedia

Mary Mediatrix of All Grace (marytruth.ca)

Is Mary Mediatrix of All Graces? (all-about-the-virgin-mary.com)

Our Jewish Roots: Mary, Dispenser of Grace (catholicexchange.com)

Dispense = fount look it up . all these Catholic sites and wiki which references Catholic teaching all show you don't know you rown churches teachings.


The Blessed Virgin Mary: Co-redemptrix - The Fatima Center

How Can Catholics Understand Mary as Co-Redemprix, Mediatrix of All Graces and Advocate? - Featured Today - Catholic Online

Mary Co-Redemptrix - Catholicism.org

Mary is Co-Redemptrix or Co-Redeemer, Why Catholic Teaching Shows us That (catholic-saints.net)

Now you can play your juvenile word games again, call all these catholic sites heretics or jsut stop lying about what teh catholic church teaches ort admit you don't know as much as you thinkyou know.

I'm not chasing a phantom.
You quote exactly from one of those sites where they say what you claim they say.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

For once you got something right.
It was post #1554

So some disagree. But a whole lot more accept her as co-redemptrix and co-mediatrix. If it went against Catholic teaching where are the orders to cease and desist false teaching to these catholic websites.

Just because a few catholics in modern times disagree, doesn't mean it is not accepted by Catholics everywhere. Show me an encyclical, statemetn or order from teh college saying these teachings should cease!

Learn your own church history.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I'm not chasing a phantom.
You quote exactly from one of those sites where they say what you claim they say.

I guess we are done tehn. I have tired of your foolishness. Have the last word if you wish, but you are a dishoinest debater.

 

[Mungo]

.
But the catholic church becamse the roman Catholic church at the end of the sixth century.

You are 1,000 years out
The name "Roman Catholic Church " was invented by the Protestants in the 16th century.

 

[Mungo]

So some disagree. But a whole lot more accept her as co-redemptrix and co-mediatrix. If it went against Catholic teaching where are the orders to cease and desist false teaching to these catholic websites.

Just because a few catholics in modern times disagree, doesn't mean it is not accepted by Catholics everywhere. Show me an encyclical, statemetn or order from teh college saying these teachings should cease!

Learn your own church history.

SOME disagree.
You put the same value on "Catholic Planet" website as on the Theological Commission of the Pontifical International Marian Academy and Pope Francis?
Now that is a dishonest debater

 

[Mungo]

I guess we are done tehn. I have tired of your foolishness. Have the last word if you wish, but you are a dishonest debater.

In other words you can't show me what you claimed.
Your claims were lies.

 

[GodsGrace]

Well as I have said several times- it is not an "official" title, but has not been discouraged, spoken against but allowed to bloom, in the Romanist church.

Agreed.
It's like Limbo.
Not an official teaching of the CC,,,but it was allowed to flourish.

 

[GodsGrace]

Well I am not "excited". but they did exist and were practiced often. I was faced with three choices forom the Romanist church when I was Catholic and studying scripture for I was a new believer. I shared with people the fasllacies of Mary, that transubstantiation was not true and a few others. I was given these choices:

1. Recant
2. Leave Romanism
3. Face a dominican tribunal on the formal charges of heresy.

The fact that a church changes doctrine (not practices or casual traditions) shows that men and not God have been making doctrine in it!

So was it god or men who made the anathemas at Trent?
Was it god or men who popularized Limbo?
Was it God or men who made Mary ever virgin? IIN contradiction to Scripture?

1 and 2 are reasonable.
But I need my computer for this,,,,tomorrow.

 

[GodsGrace]

Nice try but not one of over 35 english versions has th eword mortal sin.

1 John 5:16 Parallel: If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. (biblehub.com)

New American Standard Bible
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

NASB 1995
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

NASB 1977
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

Amplified Bible
All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death [one can repent of it and be forgiven].

Christian Standard Bible
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin that doesn’t lead to death.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin that does not bring death.

Contemporary English Version
Everything that is wrong is sin, but not all sins are deadly.

Good News Translation
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which does not lead to death.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, yet there are sins that don't lead to death.

International Standard Version
Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, yet there are sins that do not lead to death.

NET Bible
All unrighteousness is sin, but there is sin not resulting

New International Version
All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

New Living Translation
All wicked actions are sin, but not every sin leads to death.

English Standard Version
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

Berean Study Bible
All unrighteousness is sin, yet there is sin that does not lead to death.

King James Bible
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

New King James Version
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

King James 2000 Bible
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

New Heart English Bible
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

World English Bible
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

American King James Version
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not to death.

American Standard Version
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

A Faithful Version
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death.

Darby Bible Translation
Every unrighteousness is sin; and there is a sin not to death.

English Revised Version
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Webster's Bible Translation
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not to death.

Geneva Bible of 1587
All vnrighteousnesse is sinne, but there is a sinne not vnto death.

Bishops' Bible of 1568
All vnrighteousnes is sinne: and there is sinne vnto death.

Coverdale Bible of 1535
All vnrighteousnes is synne, and there is synne not vnto death.

Tyndale Bible of 1526
All vnrightewesnes is synne and ther is synne not vnto deeth.

Catholic Translations
Douay-Rheims Bible
All iniquity is sin. And there is a sin unto death.

Catholic Public Domain Version
All that is iniquity is sin. But there is a sin unto death.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For every evil is sin, and there is sin that is not mortal.

Lamsa Bible
All unrighteousness is sin: but there is a sin which is not worthy of death.

Anderson New Testament
All unrighteousness is sin; and there is a sin not to death.

Godbey New Testament
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is sin not unto death.

Haweis New Testament
All unrighteousness is sin; and there is sin not unto death.

Mace New Testament
every thing that is contrary to virtue, is a sin: but every sin is not a mortal sin:

Weymouth New Testament
Any kind of wrongdoing is sin; but there is sin which is not unto death.

Worrell New Testament
All unrighteousness is sin; and there is a sin not to death.

Worsley New Testament
All unrighteousness indeed is sin, and yet there is a sin not unto death

Literal Standard Version
all unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin [that is] not to death.

Berean Literal Bible
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not unto death.

Young's Literal Translation
all unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not unto death.

Smith's Literal Translation
All injustice is sin: and there is a sin not to death.

Literal Emphasis Translation
All unrighteousness is sin; and there is a sin not to deat

No one writes "mortal sin". For it is not in the greek. We can sin unto physical death. But not spiritual death. I can do the same with thenx tverse to prove to you your quote is a reinterpretation of Scripture that is wqrong.

To say one can lose their salvation is to say that jesus did not forgive all your sins which is a lie. It says that slavbation requires work which is a lie. It say that an all knowing god who knows past present and future knew a person would get salvation and then God would have to revoke that salvation which is a lie. It also denies what Jesus said in Matt. 7:

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

but according ot you , Jesu swould say to some- "I knew you once, but I don't know you now".

Tagged for tomorrow.

 

[Tong2020]

Thank you Tong.

Your definition of doctrine is different than the modern dictionary and Scripture. Doctrine is taught.

Titus 1:9 says He must have a firm grasp of the word that is trustworthy in accordance with the teaching, so that he may be able both to preach (teach) with sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict it.

Titus 2:1 But as for you, teach what is consistent with sound doctrine.

1 Timothy 6:3 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness,

A doctrine is a law...for a lack of better words....that is taught!

Mary

So, in the letter of the Jerusalem council, please tell what is the doctrine that is taught. For you contended that the letter is new doctrine that settles an unsettled doctrine.

Thank you.

Tong
R4605

 

[Bruce Atkinson]

Why use Wikipedia?
Why not use an authoritative source such as the Catechism of The Catholic Church?

Wikipedia does actually quote from the Catechism
1858. Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother." The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.
The rest is speculation

As far as I know there is no list of mortal sins. Indeed your Wikipedia article says
Although the Church itself does not provide a precise list of grave sins or divide actions into grave and venial categories, Church documents do name certain "grave sins" as well as "offenses" and "actions" whose subject-matter is considered to be grave.
In other words there is no list but the Church has given some examples.
Moreover it is not possible to give a list of mortal sins since there are three condition to be satisfied before an action is a mortal sin. Grave matter is only one of them.

Your quotes from 1Cor 15 & Rom 10 do not say that belief is the only thing that matters.
1John 5:16-17 does not link mortal sin to unbelief. That is your speculation.

The Catechism quotes from Mk 10:19. But note that the question that Jesus was answering was "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
Jesus tells the rich young man to the Commandments. So if we do not keep the Commandments then we will not inherit eternal life.

So your comments about the Catholic Church are incorrect.
So it's clear the Catholic Church is essentially 'making up things' on the fly.
How or why the Catholic Church 'mucks it up' with other sins is beyond me.
It would make our discussion smoother if you desisted from crude Catholic bashing.

Thank you for pointing me to #1858 in the Catechism. I finally downloaded all 1425 pages of the Catechism and scrolled down to read it.

I find it interesting that both Jesus and the Catechism omit 5 of the 10 commandments: No other Gods, Don't make graven images, Don't take the Lords' name in vain, Keep the Sabbath and Not to Covet. I'll take a guess that in the interest of dealing with the rich man expeditiously, He shortened the list as the rich man, being a Jew, knew all 10 commandments. So why does the Catechism only call those 5 'grave'? Sin is sin. Stealing your little sisters' candy bar, a car, or $1,000,000 from a bank is all stealing. I understand the Catechism where it says violence against parents is more grave than against a stranger. Does the same thinking differentiate between a relatives' candy, or car, versus that of a stranger?

Why do I maintain that the only sin unto death/mortal sin is 'unbelief'? Simple. 1 John 1:5-10 makes it clear:

1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (KJV)

If one does not believe that Jesus shed blood paid for ALL our sins, past, present and future, they are doomed to the eternal lake of fire. And if one believes Jesus paid the price in full, then keeping a 'clean slate' by confessing our sins to Him as soon as possible after committing them is necessary.

 

[Tong2020]

Doesn't matter what sites they were they do not say what you claimed.
None of them say that Mary is co-redeemer
None of them say Mary is the fount of all grace.

Are you by that saying all along that you don’t believe that Mary is co-redeemer?

Are you by that saying all along that you don’t believe that Mary is fount of grace?

Which IOW she isn’t what catholics say she is in many catholic authored web sites?

Are you by that saying all along that you those catholic authored web sites speak lies? I wonder if there is one catholic web site that condemns such lies which misrepresent the RCC. Do you know of any?

Tong
R4606

 

[Tong2020]

@Mungo

After a man or husband knew his woman or wife, will she still be a virgin?

Adam knew his wife Eve. After that, whether Eve got pregnant or not, isn’t Eve no longer a virgin?

In my view, after the man knew his wife, the wife is no longer a virgin.

Did Joseph knew his wife Mary? Do you know of scriptures that speaks of that?

What can you say about that?

Thanks.

Tong
R4607