Biblical-Type Floods Are Real, and They're Absolutely Enormous

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Space_Karen

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Geologists long rejected the notion that cataclysmic flood had ever occurred — until one of them found proof of a Noah-like catastrophe in the wildly eroded river valleys of Washington State.​

By David R MontgomeryAug 28, 2012 7:00 PM

Palouse Falls Washington State Scablands - Shutterstock

Washington scablands: Hundreds of square miles of Washington State were gouged by the great Missoula Floods 15,000 years ago. (Credit: Edmund Lowe Photography/Shutterstock)

After teaching geology at the University of Washington for a decade, I had become embarrassed that I hadn’t yet seen the deep canyons where tremendous Ice Age floods scoured down into solid rock to sculpt the scablands. So I decided to help lead a field trip for students to see the giant erosion scars on the local landforms.

We drove across the Columbia River and continued eastward, dropping into Moses Coulee, a canyon with vertical walls of layered basalt. We gathered the students on a small rise and asked them how the canyon had formed. They immediately ruled out wind and glaciers. The valley was not U-shaped like a typical glacial valley, and none of us could imagine how wind might gouge a canyon out of hard basalt. But neither were there rivers or streams. After a while I pointed out that we were standing on a pile of gravel. I asked how the rounded granite pebbles came to be there when the closest source of granite lay over the horizon. Silence.

Hiking through eastern Washington canyons littered with exotic boulders is a standard field trip for beginning geologists. It takes a while to register what you see. A dry waterfall hundreds of feet high in the middle of the desert. Giant potholes where no river flows today. Granite boulders parked in a basalt canyon. Gradually the contradictions fall into place and a story unfolds. Where did wayward boulders the size of a car or house come from? What was the source of the water that moved them around and carved the falls? Today, even novice geologists can conjure up eastern Washington’s giant floods.

Long before the discovery of the scablands, geologists dismissed the role of catastrophic floods in interpreting European geology. By the end of the 19th century such ideas not only were out of fashion but were geological heresy. When J. Harlen Bretz uncovered evidence of giant floods in eastern Washington in the 1920s, it took most of the 20th century for other geologists to believe him. Geologists had so thoroughly vilified the concept of great floods that they could not believe it when somebody actually found evidence of one.

Bretz was a classic field geologist and a controversial figure throughout his career. In 1925 he presented the story of the region’s giant floods, seeing what others at first could not — and then would not — see. He spent his lifetime piecing together the story of how a raging wall of water hundreds of feet high roared across eastern Washington, carving deep channels before cascading down the Columbia River Gorge as a wall of water high enough to turn Oregon’s Willamette Valley into a vast backwater lake.

Bretz found exotic granite boulders perched on basalt cliffs hundreds of feet above the highest recorded river level. In the scablands, a desolate region stripped of soil, he came across dry waterfalls and potholes hundreds of feet above the modern river. Gigantic gravel bars deposited within dry valleys implied deep, fast-flowing water. Streamlined hills rose like islands, extending more than 100 feet above the scoured-out channelways.

He realized the chaotic landscape had been carved by an enormous flood that chewed deep channels through hundreds of feet of solid basalt. The ancient flood deposited an enormous delta around Portland, Oregon, backing up flow into the Willamette Valley. The waters, he eventually realized, could have come from catastrophic drainage of Lake Missoula, an ancient, glacier-dammed lake in western Montana.

Bretz was ridiculed until 1940, when geologist Joe Pardee described giant ripple marks on the bed of Lake Missoula. The 50-foot-high ripples, he said, were formed by fast-flowing currents and not by the sluggish bottom water of a lake. Only sudden failure of the glacial dam could have released the 2,000-foot-deep lake. The catastrophic release of 600 cubic miles of water through a narrow gap would sweep away everything in its path. In 1979, when Bretz was 97 years old, the Geological Society of America awarded him its highest honor, the Penrose Medal.

Recognition of the Missoula flood helped other geologists identify similar landforms in Asia, Europe, Alaska, and the American Midwest, as well as on Mars. There is now compelling evidence for many gigantic ancient floods where glacial ice dams failed time and again: At the end of the last glaciation, some 10,000 years ago, giant ice-dammed lakes in Eurasia and North America repeatedly produced huge floods. In Siberia, rivers spilled over drainage divides and changed their courses. England’s fate as an island was sealed by erosion from glacial floods that carved the English Channel. These were not global deluges as described in the Genesis story of Noah, but were more focused catastrophic floods taking place throughout the world. They likely inspired stories like Noah’s in many cultures, passed down through generations.

Since devastating floods were a fact of life on the margins of the world’s great ice sheets, people in those areas probably witnessed them. Early missionaries in eastern Washington reported stories of a great flood among Yakima and Spokane tribes, who could identify locations where survivors sought refuge. An Ojibwa Indian legend from around Lake Superior tells of a great snow that fell one September at the beginning of time: A bag contained the sun’s heat until a mouse nibbled a hole in it. The warmth spilled over, melting the snow and producing a flood that rose above the tops of the highest pines. Everyone drowned except for an old man who drifted about in his canoe rescuing animals. The native inhabitants of the Willamette Valley told stories of a time the valley filled with water, forcing everyone to flee up a mountain before the waters receded.

Did survivors of such events pass their stories down through the ages? Could the biblical story of Noah, on some level, be real?




Tsangpo Gorge Flood, Tibet​



Tsangpo Gorge, Tibet - Shutterstock

(Credit: Peter Stein/Shutterstock)

The Legend: Local folklore describes a traditional Buddhist pilgrimage that circled a small peak ringed by lake terraces. The pilgrims commemorated how Guru Rimpoche brought Buddhism to Tibet by defeating a powerful lake demon, draining its home to reveal fertile farmland. A local temple, which sits on top of a stack of ancient lake sediments, has a striking mural of Guru Rimpoche above a lake at the gorge entrance. The Temple’s head lama believes the ocean once covered all of Tibet.

The Evidence: During a 2002 expedition, geologist David Montgomery studied how the Tsangpo River once sawed through rock, carving the world’s deepest gorge. His team discovered ancient shorelines and 1,200-year-old wood fragments in lake sediments dating to around the time Rimpoche arrived in Tibet. At the head of the gorge, glacial debris was plastered on both sides of the valley, confirming that a massive tongue of ice once plunged down a nearby 25,000-foot-high peak. Two levels of terraces extending upstream indicated a wall of ice and mud had dammed the river, backing up a lake that filled the valley. Once the lake filled enough to breach the dam, a rush of water roared down the gorge, scouring out everything in its path.


 
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Space_Karen

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Grand Canyon Flood​



The Grand Canyon - Shutterstock

The Grand Canyon. (Credit: Gray Aletter/Shutterstock)

The Legend: A local Native American tribe, the Havasupai, attributes the canyon’s carving to a catastrophic flood down the Colorado River that occurred when the god Ho-ko-ma-ta unleashed a tremendous rainstorm. A more benevolent god, Pu-keh-eh, put his daughter in a hollowed-out log to save her from the monstrous current. After the flood receded, she crawled out and became mother of all humanity.

The Evidence: The rocks exposed in the canyon walls could not have settled during a single flood because they alternate many times in color, grain size, and composition. Although floods did not create the canyon [pdf], evidence suggests they helped shape it. Huge boulders are perched hundreds of feet above the river. Floods capable of stranding boulders so high would have been spectacular. The breaching of cooled lava dams that impounded the river may have launched these catastrophic floods. But these deluges occurred at least 400,000 years ago, long before people made it to the continent. The Native American tale of how the canyon formed is apparently an attempt to make sense of mysterious landforms.




Black Sea Flood​



Black Sea - Shutterstock

The Black Sea, Turkey. (Credit: Aivita Arika/Shutterstock)

The Legend: In the story of Noah’s Ark, the book of Genesis says Noah lived during a time when all other people on Earth were evil. God became angry and decided to create a giant flood to kill everyone except Noah and his family. God told Noah to build a boat called an ark, big enough for himself, his wife, his sons, their wives, and at least two of every animal. Once the ark was built, God sent a rainstorm that lasted 40 days. The deluge rose higher than the tallest mountain. When the waters receded, Noah’s family and animals left the ark and repopulated the Earth.

The Evidence: After refuting the possibility of a global flood, geologists dismissed suggestions that the story of Noah’s Flood might be rooted in some sort of fact. Then, in 1993, oceanographers Bill Ryan and Walter Pitman of Columbia University used sonar to survey the floor of the Black Sea — and found evidence supporting the story after all. Submerged beneath the surface were ancient streambeds, river-cut canyons, and shorelines. High-resolution seismic reflection profiles showed a former land surface buried in the seafloor sediments. Drill cores from the seafloor contained roots of shrubs covered by marine mud. Ryan and Pitman argued that over 7,000 years ago, the Mediterranean began to rise, breaching rocks along the Istanbul Strait, a waterway that helps form the boundary between Europe and Asia today. The event caused the Mediterranean to spill into the Black Sea, triggering a catastrophic flood.

Were early farmers in the area forced to flee as their world disappeared underwater? Archaeologists found the rising waters coincided with the onset of the initial migration of farming cultures into Europe and the floodplains of Mesopotamia. Wherever they came from, the first farmers arrived in southern Mesopotamia shortly after the filling of the Black Sea. Did they bring the story of a great flood that destroyed their world?


Reprinted from The Rocks Don't Lie: A Geologist Investigates Noah's Flood by David R. Montgomery. Copyright © by David R. Montgomery. With the permission of the publisher, W.W. Norton & Company, Inc. This selection may not be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted in any form by any means without the prior written permission of the publisher.




 
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Scott Downey

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The grand canyon was made by a catastrophic flood of water draining off the continent after Noah's flood. The flood waters had to drain from the lands and the idea is a giant inland sea had been left behind. Earthquakes and or earth was eroded away and released the inland sea and the huge forces of moving rocks, and flowing water gouged out and washed the canyon into existence. None of this eons of time of a small river carving out the canyon. Must have been an amazing sight. Could have taken a few hundreds of years after the flood for the 'dam' to break
 

Space_Karen

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When I first read this article in 2012, it was published on the discovery channel website. I think it acknowledged the grand canyon being etched by floods in Noah's era. The part about the grand canyon being created by floods 400,000 years ago could be new and recently edited in. But to be honest, it was so long ago, and I've covered so much ground since then. I can't remember as well as I would like to.

The rest of the information is good, and so I think it serves a good purpose even if some portions of it such as the grand canyon timeline might be inaccurate.
 

ScottA

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When I first read this article in 2012, it was published on the discovery channel website. I think it acknowledged the grand canyon being etched by floods in Noah's era. The part about the grand canyon being created by floods 400,000 years ago could be new and recently edited in. But to be honest, it was so long ago, and I've covered so much ground since then. I can't remember as well as I would like to.

The rest of the information is good, and so I think it serves a good purpose even if some portions of it such as the grand canyon timeline might be inaccurate.
Do not be fooled by the timing.

Times, and the perceived timeline associated with this world were created just as mankind was created. And being of the same elements as we were created--these things are all a mere created "image", just as we are created in the image of God.

It is important to understand that "this world" is not of the kingdom, and all that it is made up of is not unlike us, but was spoken into existence out of nothing. That's right--nothing. Even matter, as it were, is actually just light and energy--the substance of which, like time, is merely a created "image" or as Einstein discovered, is merely an "illusion."

What that all means in terms of the would-be timeline of history...is written: First, it is defined by days, and weeks, and years, etc....and the conclusion of one who believes God to be true, is best taken by that measure. But then, it is also written that, “Take heed what you hear. With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you." Meaning, that for those who believe in the measurements of time given by God, that is what is true; and also that for those who believe rather in evolution and millions of years of time, that too is what is true. For these times and this creation was created to pour out the spirit of God upon "all" flesh, the good and the evil, making manifest every hidden thing, and that "man of sin should be revealed"--that is, that we all should be brought to light by the energy of God, first in the creation of matter and then in the dissolving of all that is evil, just as it is written of the earth by fervent heat and with fire.
 

Scott Downey

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Do not be fooled by the timing.

Times, and the perceived timeline associated with this world were created just as mankind was created. And being of the same elements as we were created--these things are all a mere created "image", just as we are created in the image of God.

It is important to understand that "this world" is not of the kingdom, and all that it is made up of is not unlike us, but was spoken into existence out of nothing. That's right--nothing. Even matter, as it were, is actually just light and energy--the substance of which, like time, is merely a created "image" or as Einstein discovered, is merely an "illusion."

What that all means in terms of the would-be timeline of history...is written: First, it is defined by days, and weeks, and years, etc....and the conclusion of one who believes God to be true, is best taken by that measure. But then, it is also written that, “Take heed what you hear. With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you." Meaning, that for those who believe in the measurements of time given by God, that is what is true; and also that for those who believe rather in evolution and millions of years of time, that too is what is true. For these times and this creation was created to pour out the spirit of God upon "all" flesh, the good and the evil, making manifest every hidden thing, and that "man of sin should be revealed"--that is, that we all should be brought to light by the energy of God in the dissolving of all that is evil, just as it is written of the earth by fervent heat and with fire.
Actually, I do not believe you realize the implication of what you are saying there. it is a strange kind of relativism about the creation. That there is no real truth to time and what God did at creation. You cannot apply that verse in that way, it is being taken badly out of context.

Matthew 7 is about people being judgmental about the faults of others in that they show themselves to be terrible hypocrites by their reviling judgement against another person. BUT, if the person doing the judgement is pure then they can see clearly, so the warning is to be careful about judging anyone else, you need to first judge yourself and see if you are also guilty.

“Judge[a] not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what [b]judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
 

ScottA

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Actually, I do not believe you realize the implication of what you are saying there. it is a strange kind of relativism about the creation. That there is no real truth to time and what God did at creation. You cannot apply that verse in that way, it is being taken badly out of context.

Matthew 7 is about people being judgmental about the faults of others in that they show themselves to be terrible hypocrites by their reviling judgement against another person. BUT, if the person doing the judgement is pure then they can see clearly, so the warning is to be careful about judging anyone else, you need to first judge yourself and see if you are also guilty.

“Judge[a] not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what [b]judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
I was not referring to Matthew 7, but to Mark 4:21-25.

But no, I was speaking in the context of all of time.
 

Space_Karen

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But then, it is also written that, “Take heed what you hear. With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you." Meaning, that for those who believe in the measurements of time given by God, that is what is true; and also that for those who believe rather in evolution and millions of years of time, that too is what is true. For these times and this creation was created to pour out the spirit of God upon "all" flesh, the good and the evil, making manifest every hidden thing, and that "man of sin should be revealed"--that is, that we all should be brought to light by the energy of God, first in the creation of matter and then in the dissolving of all that is evil, just as it is written of the earth by fervent heat and with fire.

There are some in life who cheer when restrictive laws and regulations are passed which negatively affect others. They laugh and cheer when they see others paying higher prices for gasoline and food. They do not realize these negative trends negatively affect themselves as well.

This is what is meant by "the measure you apply to others, shall be returned to you".

"Dissolving of all that is evil." I do not think that evil will be dissolved.

Instead what will happen is, humanity will advance to a point where a greater proportion of people make more informed choices which make evil less commonplace in society. To a degree, we have already seen this happening. Human morality and values are developing and improving. Eventually they could develop to a point where most view evil as being a silly, childish and regressive thing and choose not to partake in it.
 

ScottA

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There are some in life who cheer when restrictive laws and regulations are passed which negatively affect others. They laugh and cheer when they see others paying higher prices for gasoline and food. They do not realize these negative trends negatively affect themselves as well.

This is what is meant by "the measure you apply to others, shall be returned to you".

"Dissolving of all that is evil." I do not think that evil will be dissolved.

Instead what will happen is, humanity will advance to a point where a greater proportion of people make more informed choices which make evil less commonplace in society. To a degree, we have already seen this happening. Human morality and values are developing and improving. Eventually they could develop to a point where most view evil as being a silly, childish and regressive thing and choose not to partake in it.
I wasn't intending to have a discussion or get your opinion on the future of humanity, but simply to offer you a piece of the mysteries of life as we would otherwise know it: Time.

Nonetheless, your ideas on humanity and evil, are not biblical--in other words, they are wrong.
 
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Space_Karen

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your ideas on humanity and evil, are not biblical--in other words, they are wrong.

The world being what it is.

Usually when people attack my ideas.

The next time I see them, they're trying to steal the things I said and claim them as their own.

It has happened more than once, over the years.

Pointless, considering people cannot gain credibility through those types of underhanded means.

Their true character is always revealed, eventually.
 

ScottA

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The world being what it is.

Usually when people attack my ideas.

The next time I see them, they're trying to steal the things I said and claim them as their own.

It has happened more than once, over the years.

Pointless, considering people cannot gain credibility through those types of underhanded means.

Their true character is always revealed, eventually.
What is right and wrong biblically is also revealed...not by "attack", but just as you have revealed yourself.
 

Space_Karen

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What is right and wrong biblically is also revealed...not by "attack", but just as you have revealed yourself.

Centuries ago, it was common for the public to enjoy the spectacle of hangings and public executions.

Today, the majority of people would oppose that type of display as being barbaric, cruel and immoral.

People are demonstrably losing their appreciation and capacity for evil and violence.

If the trend continues, evil will continue to diminish.

Until it may virtually cease to exist.

That is how evil ends, in my opinion.

God has already targeted evil through genocide with Great Floods and the smiting of Sodom and Gamorra.

Clearly those methods of purging the world of evil do not work.

And so it remains, that another method will be successful, where those methods were unsuccessful.
 

ScottA

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Centuries ago, it was common for the public to enjoy the spectacle of hangings and public executions.

Today, the majority of people would oppose that type of display as being barbaric, cruel and immoral.

People are demonstrably losing their appreciation and capacity for evil and violence.

If the trend continues, evil will continue to diminish.

Until it may virtually cease to exist.

That is how evil ends, in my opinion.

God has already targeted evil through genocide with Great Floods and the smiting of Sodom and Gamorra.

Clearly those methods of purging the world of evil do not work.

And so it remains, that another method will be successful, where those methods were unsuccessful.
Wow--you are soooo off!

If you believe evil has lessoned and is diminishing...that's just wrong. In fact as world populations have increased, so has evil. Do the math. And if you are going to call yourself a Christian--read the Bible. It is rather that "There is nothing new under the sun."

As for what would appear to be past failures by God to rid the world of evil--there is no "past" with God, nor any future. You have much to learn.

So, yes, the things you have been advocation are just your "opinion"--but wrong. You should not be making statements as if you actually know the truth, but should be asking questions.
 
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Space_Karen

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Wow--you are soooo off!

If you believe evil has lessoned and is diminishing...that's just wrong. In fact as world populations have increased, so has evil. Do the math. And if you are going to call yourself a Christian--read the Bible. It is rather that "There is nothing new under the sun."

1950: human population is 2.5 billion

2022: human population more than triples to nearly 8 billion people

A greater population correlates with higher competition for resources, jobs and living space. Which can translate to greater stress and negativity.

But on average it doesn't mean people are becoming more violent or evil over time. In fact, the opposite is occurring.

Rates for crime and violence were actually decreasing up until the economic crisis of 2008. And later the global pandemic of 2020 which coincides with yet another economic crisis.

Unfortunately recession and economic contraction correlate highly with elevated rates for homicide, suicide, violence and crime. But if it wasn't for that financial motive, rates for crime and other negative circumstances would be on declines. This is something politicians have tried to take credit for by implementing "stop and frisk" measures. But no politicians are definitely not the cause of it.

It has simply become less trendy and less publicly acceptable for people to be evil.

Here's a prime example. Have you ever seen the reality TV show American Chopper? Have you noticed how the values and morals of Jr. contrast with that of his father? That contrast marks the difference in generations. Which applies broadly in ways you would not expect.

The phrase "nothing new under the sun" which comes from ecclesiastes, means that certain aspects of the so called human condition are timeless and classic. We can look back 2,000 years and see romans struggling with hyperinflation of the denarius. And we can see many nations today struggling with hyperinflation in the same vein. That's what "nothing new under the sun," means.

Contrary to what you have said, it doesn't mean everything stays the same forevers. Sorry to say, your interpretation appears to be inaccurate.
 
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ScottA

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1950: human population is 2.5 billion

2022: human population more than triples to nearly 8 billion people

A greater population correlates with higher competition for resources, jobs and living space. Which can translate to greater stress and negativity.

But on average it doesn't mean people are becoming more violent or evil over time. In fact, the opposite is occurring.

Rates for crime and violence were actually decreasing up until the economic crisis of 2008. And later the global pandemic of 2020 which coincides with yet another economic crisis.

Unfortunately recession and economic contraction correlate highly with elevated rates for homicide, suicide, violence and crime. But if it wasn't for that financial motive, rates for crime and other negative circumstances would be on declines. This is something politicians have tried to take credit for by implementing "stop and frisk" measures. But no politicians are definitely not the cause of it.

It has simply become less trendy and less publicly acceptable for people to be evil.

Here's a prime example. Have you ever seen the reality TV show American Chopper? Have you noticed how the values and morals of Jr. contrast with that of his father? That contrast marks the difference in generations. Which applies broadly in ways you would not expect.

The phrase "nothing new under the sun" which comes from ecclesiastes, means that certain aspects of the so called human condition are timeless and classic. We can look back 2,000 years and see romans struggling with hyperinflation of the denarius. And we can see many nations today struggling with hyperinflation in the same vein. That's what "nothing new under the sun," means.

Contrary to what you have said, it doesn't mean everything stays the same forevers. Sorry to say, your interpretation appears to be inaccurate.
The world according to Chopper. o_O
 

-Phil

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In interpreting the flood as literal, the point (the covenant) is entirely overlooked.
Likewise, in believing in and projecting evil, the entire point of Genesis is overlooked.
 

Mr E

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Even matter, as it were, is actually just light and energy--the substance of which, like time, is merely a created "image" or as Einstein discovered, is merely an "illusion."

---albeit, a convincing one.
 
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bluedragon

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I enjoy watching Expedition Unknown. Thursday night they were on site researching for the location of the city that Jesus spent most of his time preaching in. A Jordan Shore location. Two sites are being investigated, then another theory was given .....Plate shifts moved the river several times in the last thousands years......That made sense especially since one of my all favorites is not located where the battle took place several thousand years ago. The mountain pass at Thermopoly is not on the shore anymore ......the site of the battle is now several miles from the shoreline.