Blotted out of The Book Of Life?

[Helen]

Romans 9 is an exhortation to the Jews.

Please see my post no. 273 for links.
Those 3 chapters should have been a different letter.

I've seen you say this earlier...
I did see it, and I still don't agree. I still maintain that the Church at Rome were not Jews.
The letter, at best, was to the whole church.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi, good to hear from you.
Let me tell you, you cannot lose your salvation.
Impossible.
It is the greatest gift one can receive.
Who would give it back except one that has lost his mind, literally, insane.
Simple way to prove it.
Quit being a Christian if you think you can.
You can't, I rest my case.

How do you quit being a Christian if you don't want to quit?
This idea of yours is not right.
Those who quit being a Christian WANT to quit.
You and I and those like KG don't WANT TO!

 

[GodsGrace]

I actually would say that what you are saying is wrong, or maybe half true. God wants us to use Our Logic and reason. You are putting forward the debate of FAITH VS REASON. But really you NEED both. If you only have faith and no reasoning, that's unbiblical. I'll show you:
'Consider (think over) what I say, and may the Lord give you understanding in all things.' 2 Timothy 2:7
He asks them who are Reading his letter to think over what he says. What do we use to think? Our brain. You have to make it reason in Our minds. But the other crucial point you are talking about is the faith part: "And may the LORD give you understanding in all Things." You also need the Lord to make you understand it. You cannot understand it only by Logic and reason you also the to ask Him to help you understand it. It is the same the other way round. You cannot understand it only by faith, you need to think about it in Your own mind, and ask God to help you to get it by His revelation and His understanding. So really we need the Balance between the two Things we are talking about. There is a Balance here, not one or the other.
You cannot read the Word of God, for example as Paul Writes in his second letter to Timothy only by trying to understand it With Your mind. You can understand bits, but you NEED God to reveal it to you, unless you wil never understand it truly. You van neither just leave it to faith and His understanding. Because then you will not read the Word, you will just leave it to His revelation. You need BOTH to understand His Word. And therefore it is not wrong to use Logic or reason, but of course we also need an understanding from the Lord also, a revelation.

Be very blessed Brother!

Mathew 22:37
37And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’

The christian faith is a faith of reason.

 

[GodsGrace]

@Kristian Gamst
John 6:39 - And this is the will of Him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

You're right, God already knows everything so that is why all names in the Book of Life where there from the creation of the world (Rev. 17:8)

What about Revelation 3:5?

Revelation 21:27 would also seem to suggest that the names must be written in when it's shown that the named are not unclean.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Heb,

1. It doesn't matter WHO 2 Peter is speaking about...
They were believers and then became unbelievers,

Well it kinda does. No, they were never believers. They were nonbelievers who stayed nonbelievers.

Jhn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

2 Pet 2:3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

Jude 1:4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

 

[GodsGrace]

I've seen you say this earlier...
I did see it, and I still don't agree. I still maintain that the Church at Rome were not Jews.
The letter, at best, was to the whole church.

It's not me saying it Helen.
It's theologians that study hermeneutics day after day.
This is why they believe chapters 9 to 11 in Romans should have been in a different letter.

Of course the church in Rome were not Jews!
Who said that? Paul was explaining why God did not fail in that the Jews did not believe Jesus was the Messiah. That this hardening of the Jews was to allow the Gentiles to come in.

This has to be studied a little or it can't be understood.
I've read just a little on it and am no expert; but it is generally accepted today.

 

[Enoch111]

Are you saying that no matter HOW we live, or whether or not we have FAITH, we are still saved?

That would be contrary to the Gospel. The first words from John the Baptist, Jesus of Nazareth, and Peter on the day of Pentecost were "REPENT". Which means turn from your sins and idols and turn to Christ.

No repentance = No salvation. See Acts 17:30.

 

[Heb 13:8]

You sure do love to speak about sinning.
Philippians 4:8

Because you keep taking it out of context.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Nobody can be under the Law after the resurrection.
Even before the resurrection, salvation was by faith, not works.
Hebrews 11.

So why do those who believe as you do insist on speaking about being under the Law?

Is obeying God being under the law?
Colossians 1:10
10so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Believers obey the law not to keep themselves saved, but out of thankfulness of the cross. God bless.

 

[Heb 13:8]

The same way a muslim becomes a Christian.
No mystery.

yeah, a wolf, a fake christian.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Another copy and paste.

Hebrews 6 stands on its own.
What you don't agree with is metaphorical.
Hebrews 6 is clear and simply said.
It's speaking about those that abandon Jesus and trample His blood underfoot. It's blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

As to the copy and paste:
How about using the ole' noodle to respond?

No, it's using metaphorical language for the maturity in the believer.

 

[Enoch111]

This is why they believe chapters 9 to 11 in Romans should have been in a different letter.

So now we have some theologians who are wiser than God the holy Spirit (who put those three chapters there).

As a matter of fact, there were many Jews in Rome during the time of Christ and His apostles.

"According to the Jewish Encyclopedia article on Rome:
Jews have lived in Rome for over 2,000 years, longer than in any other European city. They originally went there from Alexandria, drawn by the lively commercial intercourse between those two cities. They may even have established a community there as early as the second pre-Christian century, for in the year 139 B.C. the pretor Hispanus issued a decree expelling all Jews who were not Italian citizens."

So the church at Rome had a mixture of Jewish and Gentile Christians. But those chapters were meant to explain to all Gentile Christians for all time that God has an eternal plan for the Church as well as an eternal plan for redeemed and restored Israel under Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

Well it kinda does. No, they were never believers. They were nonbelievers who stayed nonbelievers.

You're speaking about the false teachers.
Paul is speaking about SOMEONE who was lost and then saved and then lost again. It doesn't MATTER who he was speaking about.

Jhn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

2 Pet 2:3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

Jude 1:4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

All good verses but I don't know what they have to do with loss of salvation.

 

[GodsGrace]

So now we have some theologians who are wiser than God the holy Spirit (who put those three chapters there).

As a matter of fact, there were many Jews in Rome during the time of Christ and His apostles.

"According to the Jewish Encyclopedia article on Rome:
Jews have lived in Rome for over 2,000 years, longer than in any other European city. They originally went there from Alexandria, drawn by the lively commercial intercourse between those two cities. They may even have established a community there as early as the second pre-Christian century, for in the year 139 B.C. the pretor Hispanus issued a decree expelling all Jews who were not Italian citizens."

So the church at Rome had a mixture of Jewish and Gentile Christians. But those chapters were meant to explain to all Gentile Christians for all time that God has an eternal plan for the Church as well as an eternal plan for redeemed and restored Israel under Christ.

Jews are still living in Rome. They have a quarter all to themselves. It's called a ghetto, actually.

Those 3 chapters have always been there. It would be easier to deal with them if they were separate...as is evidenced by your reply.

I'm not going to argue this. I didn't make this up, biblical theologians did. I do believe they know more than we do.

 

[Heb 13:8]

You're speaking about the false teachers.
Paul is speaking about SOMEONE who was lost and then saved and then lost again. It doesn't MATTER who he was speaking about.



All good verses but I don't know what they have to do with loss of salvation.

GG, either you believe or you don't, Jhn 3:18. You don't believe, then stop believing, then believe again, then stop believing. The power of God keeps you saved, not you works.

1 Cor 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

 

[Nancy]

I would hope so.
But faith only and easy believism are both affecting Christianity, and not for the better.

Sorry for jumping in here GG...just want to say that I do believe our salvation is through faith alone, believing in His enormous grace. And, also, IMO- good works THROUGH His Spirit and to His Glory only--is a RESULT of our saving grace and our gratitude to Him. If we do any kind of works, and it seems a burden to us...I see that as not from the heart but of obligation so as to be burned up...(JMO)-- not a true work with joy. "You will know them by their fruits" --And...that goes for unbelievers as well as believers. Bottom line with me right now, is that if we are a true follower of Christ, these true good works will come naturally and joyfully kk-done now, sry if I derailed

 

[GodsGrace]

GG, either you believe or you don't, Jhn 3:18. You don't believe, then stop believing, then believe again, then stop believing. The power of God keeps you saved, not you works.

1 Cor 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

I didn't say works keep you saved.
I've said all along that FAITH keeps you saved.
Faith is required to be saved. If one does NOT have faith, they can't be saved.
Works follow faith. We work for God and not for man. A faith without works is totally useless.

If I hated making dinner for my family BEFORE I was saved, and I hate it now, what has changed in me? Faith brings a change in the life of a person. This is where works come in.

Paul taught sacrifice of ourselves in every letter, as I've shown you before.
Romans 15:1-3 It's speaking about food, but it states that we are to consider our neighbor and do what is good for him. IOW, Paul is talking about works. Works is NOT a bad word!

1Now we who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those without strength and not just please ourselves. 2Each of us is to please his neighbor for his good, to his edification. 3For even Christ did not please Himself; but as it is written, “THE REPROACHES OF THOSE WHO REPROACHED YOU FELL ON ME.”

 

[GodsGrace]

Sorry for jumping in here GG...just want to say that I do believe our salvation is through faith alone, believing in His enormous grace. And, also, IMO- good works THROUGH His Spirit and to His Glory only--is a RESULT of our saving grace and our gratitude to Him. If we do any kind of works, and it seems a burden to us...I see that as not from the heart but of obligation so as to be burned up...(JMO)-- not a true work with joy. "You will know them by their fruits" --And...that goes for unbelievers as well as believers. Bottom line with me right now, is that if we are a true follower of Christ, these true good works will come naturally and joyfully kk-done now, sry if I derailed

Of course.
If you're forcing yourself to do something, it's not obedience of faith.

Romans 1:4-5
4who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake, 6among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;

God will let each one of us know what He expects from us at the moment that He expects it...and at that time, we'll have the strength to do it, and not before.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Works follow faith. We work for God and not for man. A faith without works is totally useless.

Works follow faith to obtain GODLY RIGHTEOUSNESS, not salvation.

James 2 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. 25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?

If I hated making dinner for my family BEFORE I was saved, and I hate it now, what has changed in me? Faith brings a change in the life of a person. This is where works come in.

And the reason a believer keeps his faith in the death burial resurrection is because of God's sanctification in him until redemption.

Works is NOT a bad word!

It is if you're saving yourself through it, which you will fail every time. God bless

 

[aspen]

I think we make the issue of sin way too complicated

- if you believe you no longer sin, ask yourself, do I love perfectly all the time?
- if you believe you no longer live a lifestyle of sin, ask yourself the same question
- if you believe you are somehow less sinful than your neighbor, the same question needs to be asked
- if you believe you no longer need instruction from the Holy Spirit or to practice loving others, you need to review this question.

If you are honest, you will recognize that all Christians are enrolled in the school of love - like all children, we take one step forward and two steps back throughout our studies, which last our entire lives. Our graduation is our deathbed.