BORN AGAIN, A CHANGE IN BODY NOT IN MIND

[Davy]

Peter is talking about two different type situation dealing with Spirit and Spirits. But I'll leave it there.

Peter in 1 Peter 3 about the "spirits in prison" is talking about the dead in the heavenly that were captives in darkness (per Isaiah 42:7). Jesus preached The Gospel to those "spirits", and led them out of the prison house, as Isaiah 42:7 was prophecy that He would do that at His 1st coming.

So your two different type situation just deserves MORE REBUKE because you are MAKING THINGS UP. You don't have a clue of what Peter was saying.

This is referring to the first resurrection, where the Jesus will bring his reward to those are call the Saints at his second coming. Let's go to Matthew 24: 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

See, not everyone is going to taste death for this to happen, but this will all happen at the last trump. When Jesus makes his second coming, the people who died in Christ, and the living shall be change. Paul explain this 1 Corinthians 15: 35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Let's see what body do they come in. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

So we see the bodies and the difference, but let's take a look the change.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Notice Paul is saying the same thing Jesus is saying, we shall not all sleep. This is what Peter is talking about in those verses you quoted. It's a lot more to this, but I'll leave here for now.

NO, the 1 Peter 4:5-6 verses is about those same "spirits in prison" in the previous 1 Peter 3 Chapter! Like Peter said, The Gospel was preached to the 'dead' so they might be judged according men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

What do those false ones deserve who TRY TO MOVE a Scripture meaning to some other UNRELATED MEANING and TIME? REBUKE, REBUKE, REBUKE! especially when the Scripture speaks plainly for itself, as does those 1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4 chapters.

 

[bro.tan]

Pay close attention to what Paul he says below.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Now if you look at the verse above you will say, "See, I told you we are in the spirit.” Then I would say to you. "What spirit are you in?” Remember, Jesus compares someone born of the spirit to the wind. Look closely at the verse. Notice something familiar? Take a look. "If so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.” If the Spirit of God dwells within you, you are in the spirit. How can the spirit of God dwell within you? Before we continue in Romans 8, let's have the Master even Jesus clear this up.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Notice what the Lord says, "The flesh profiteth nothing, the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life". The spirit that dwells within you is His word. His word gives you life eternal. Paul is on the same page as the Master as always. Plain and simple you are not walking in the flesh or in other words in the ways of the world. You are walking in the spirit, or you are obeying the Word of God. Let's return to Romans Chapter 8 and read it with some understanding.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Look at the 10th verse, "And if Christ be in you". How can Christ be in you again? His word is in your mind. Look at the next part of the verse. "The body is dead because of sin". Notice what it says, the body is dead to sin? This isn't a physical death. The next verse will explain.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Look at verse 11, "quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." So you see, a person is very much alive physically, but if you don't follow the word of God you are a dead man walking. Take a look at these next verses.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Paul simply means bring this sinful body under control and then you will be led by the word of God. As long as you follow the word of God you are considered a son or daughter of God. This spirit is simply the word of God, not that you are a spirit being.

After reading these verses you will see as Solomon says it is a time for everything. Take a look at what Paul is saying.

Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Our bodies must be changed and this will not take place until the first resurrection. This is why Paul makes these statements. We ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. He did say waiting correct? Even Job was aware of this. Take a look.

Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? All the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

 

[Davy]

Pay close attention to what Paul he says below.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Now if you look at the verse above you will say, "See, I told you we are in the spirit.” Then I would say to you. "What spirit are you in?” Remember, Jesus compares someone born of the spirit to the wind. Look closely at the verse. Notice something familiar? Take a look. "If so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.” If the Spirit of God dwells within you, you are in the spirit. How can the spirit of God dwell within you? Before we continue in Romans 8, let's have the Master even Jesus clear this up.

And Lord Jesus said, "THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE FLESH IS FLESH, AND THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT".

So you are NOT able to try and prove Jesus was pointing to our FLESH with being 'born again' BY THE SPIRIT! Our 'spirit' INSIDE OUR FLESH BODY is what is 'born again' BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. It is our 'spirit' that is like the wind, NOT our flesh.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Is this another JW teaching? We were dead spiritually, then God drew us to Himself, His word and through a elaborate orchestrated set of events and people who came into our lives, we were persuaded by His WORD and we believed in Christ and the the whole story. This sometimes takes a lifetime to come to this realization. Some are enlightened in their youths. I became a Christian when I was 35, 32 years ago, and my folks became believers in their 80's. We asked for forgiveness of our sins and He washed them away. He lifted the veil of blindness so that we can see spiritually. Our spirit communes with the Spirit of God Who confirms our relationship with Him and dwells in us. That is what "born again' means; we have been baptized by the Holy Spirit and He takes up residence in us. He is a person, not a force, not like the wind. He may travel like the wind, but is not physical. We have body, mind and spirit. We are spirituall beings. This is why we can see the kingdom of heaven, He removed the blinders. We have already entered into the kingdom of heaven spiritually, yet still live with our flesh until it dies. To be "in Christ", we spriritually enter into Christ, so we must possess a spirit ourselves. This spirit that we are is the "new creature". It already exists. We don't wait till the end of time to get it. What we are waiting for is new resurrected bodies. Spirits in heaven are waiting for the 1st Resurrection at which time we will all receive new eternal multi-dimensional bodies like Christ has.

How can you be spiritual if you don't believe you possess a spirit or the Spirit? I am not sure, but I think you are confusing a different sense of the word. We say a person has the spirit of laughter or the spirit of anger or the spirit of giving, etc. These are attributes, motivational force, attitudes, dispositions, inclinations to express oneself emotionally, intellectually, creatively, lovingly or hatefully. Well these are expressions of a person's spirit, but not the spirit entirely . God made us in His image, meaning He made us with a body, a soul (a rational mind, will, emotions, creativelity), and a spirit. The spiritual part was dead until it is revived. The dead spirit is like a cell phone without a battery. Hello, hello ... it's dead, no connection to God. Then the Spirit gives you in a sense, a new battery. You are charged. All of a sudden you see things like never before, your world view changes, you are entightened in many ways, understand scripture, you believe it, receive deep meaning of words that never made sense to you before. Life never really made sense to you before, now it does. Now you see meaning and purpose. You are born again, You are a new creature, let's say we are G-mobile, connected to God's frequency. You pick up His signals and pray and He answers.

 

[marks]

We say a person has the spirit of laughter or the spirit of anger or the spirit of giving, etc.

This is just our manner of speech, and is in reality imprecise.

Much love!

 

[bro.tan]

Is this another JW teaching? We were dead spiritually, then God drew us to Himself, His word and through a elaborate orchestrated set of events and people who came into our lives, we were persuaded by His WORD and we believed in Christ and the the whole story. This sometimes takes a lifetime to come to this realization. Some are enlightened in their youths. I became a Christian when I was 35, 32 years ago, and my folks became believers in their 80's. We asked for forgiveness of our sins and He washed them away. He lifted the veil of blindness so that we can see spiritually. Our spirit communes with the Spirit of God Who confirms our relationship with Him and dwells in us. That is what "born again' means; we have been baptized by the Holy Spirit and He takes up residence in us. He is a person, not a force, not like the wind. He may travel like the wind, but is not physical. We have body, mind and spirit. We are spirituall beings. This is why we can see the kingdom of heaven, He removed the blinders. We have already entered into the kingdom of heaven spiritually, yet still live with our flesh until it dies. To be "in Christ", we spriritually enter into Christ, so we must possess a spirit ourselves. This spirit that we are is the "new creature". It already exists. We don't wait till the end of time to get it. What we are waiting for is new resurrected bodies. Spirits in heaven are waiting for the 1st Resurrection at which time we will all receive new eternal multi-dimensional bodies like Christ has.

No one died and went to heaven but Jesus. Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Was that hard to understand? No. If you are dead you have no wisdom, no knowledge, no memory who can you praise? No one. Here is another Psalm.


Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

This verse clarifies the 6th Psalm. David and Solomon are consistent. Let's go to another Prophet, the Prophet Isaiah and see what he has to say about this subject. Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. 19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.
Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? 11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

What does Job mean by this statement, "Till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Let's take a look at this for a moment. Listen carefully to Peter. II Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

How can you be spiritual if you don't believe you possess a spirit or the Spirit? I am not sure, but I think you are confusing a different sense of the word. We say a person has the spirit of laughter or the spirit of anger or the spirit of giving, etc. These are attributes, motivational force, attitudes, dispositions, inclinations to express oneself emotionally, intellectually, creatively, lovingly or hatefully. Well these are expressions of a person's spirit, but not the spirit entirely . God made us in His image, meaning He made us with a body, a soul (a rational mind, will, emotions, creativelity), and a spirit. The spiritual part was dead until it is revived. The dead spirit is like a cell phone without a battery. Hello, hello ... it's dead, no connection to God. Then the Spirit gives you in a sense, a new battery. You are charged. All of a sudden you see things like never before, your world view changes, you are entightened in many ways, understand scripture, you believe it, receive deep meaning of words that never made sense to you before. Life never really made sense to you before, now it does. Now you see meaning and purpose. You are born again, You are a new creature, let's say we are G-mobile, connected to God's frequency. You pick up His signals and pray and He answers.

There are several spirits in the pages of the bible. When we run across this word we must be able to define it at each instance. Once a person begins to understand the different types of spirits, and how the word spirit is used, all the guessing games will be alleviated. By properly dividing the scriptures.
In other words, read the scripture and allow the book to explain itself. Many people today think when the word spirit is used in the pages of the bible it either has no substantial existence, or some imagined form of shapeless apparition. When spirit is used does it represent a phantom only? Or does it portray other things? If you take the time and read the lesson step by step you see and understand what's going.

 

[bro.tan]

Take a look at Philippians and you will see Job and Paul are on the same page.

Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Now we know we must be changed physically, let's see when this will take place what type of body we will have and why. Paul will show you this in I Corinthians the 15th chapter. Take a close look and you will understand why the Lord said in John chapter 3 flesh and blood can not see the kingdom of God. Pay close attention, Paul will repeat himself several times.

I Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

Why would Paul mention the dead being raised? I Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Look at verse 50, notice what it says "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God". Remembers Jesus said something similar to this in John chapter 3. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. This is the Fathers Kingdom, which Jesus spoke of. During the Lord's thousand-year reign with the saint, flesh and blood beings will still be on the earth along with spirit beings. There will be only spirit beings after the second resurrection. Remember what Nicodemus asked the Lord? He asked Him, " how could a man be born again when he was already old?" And the Lord answered by saying, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.” In order for you to be born again you must be changed into a spiritual body.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

.G

No one died and went to heaven but Jesus. Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Was that hard to understand? No. If you are dead you have no wisdom, no knowledge, no memory who can you praise? No one. Here is another Psalm.


Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

This verse clarifies the 6th Psalm. David and Solomon are consistent. Let's go to another Prophet, the Prophet Isaiah and see what he has to say about this subject. Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. 19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.
Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? 11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

What does Job mean by this statement, "Till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Let's take a look at this for a moment. Listen carefully to Peter. II Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

There are several spirits in the pages of the bible. When we run across this word we must be able to define it at each instance. Once a person begins to understand the different types of spirits, and how the word spirit is used, all the guessing games will be alleviated. By properly dividing the scriptures.
In other words, read the scripture and allow the book to explain itself. Many people today think when the word spirit is used in the pages of the bible it either has no substantial existence, or some imagined form of shapeless apparition. When spirit is used does it represent a phantom only? Or does it portray other things? If you take the time and read the lesson step by step you see and understand what's going.

Our Father is spirit. Jesus has a spirit, the Holy Spirit is distinct from them, since both the Father and the Son sent Him.The Holy Spirit glorifies the Son, dwells in us and teaches us all things. Do you understand what the word dwell means? It means to live in something. We have a spirit that communes with all three.
There are evil spirits who work to deceive.
Satan works to deceive.

You said, "In other words, read the scripture and allow the book to explain itself." The Holy Spirit gives us discernment.

You say, "no one died and went to heaven except Jesus?
So I guess when Moses and Elijah appeared on the Mount of Transfiguration with Jesus _ Who was seen in His glory, they had no consciousness, they weren't alive, just empty headed apparitions? Where did they come from and go back to?
And then I suppose you don't believe the story that Jesus told of the Rich man in Hades and Lazarus with Abraham (who was communicating to the Rich man from a different location)? I suppose you would pass this off as a parable? Luke 16:23-31 is not symbolic language! These were real locations. Jesus never used names of real people, like Abraham in parable. Why would he describe two locations _ that exist after death _ in detail _ to symbolically mean something else if they did not exist? What moral truth would be gained from something abstract? Jesus' parables were always about common experiences that people could relate to and draw meaning out of.His parables did not use detailed descriptions of fictional, abstract territories.
And then you have 2 Peter 2:4-6. Is Tarturus a real place, described as pits of darkness?
In 2 Peter 2:9, where does he keep the unrighteous _ under punishment _ until the day of judgment? Hades. Tarturus is a separate location from where the souls are.
And what place is Job describing in
Job 10:21-22?
Or in Job 11:7-8 where he describes the depths of God as being deeper than Sheol? Obviously Sheol is deeper than six feet.
And where exactly are the departed spirits trembling in Job 26:5-6?
Deuteronomy 32:22 describes God's punishment with fire that burns to the lowest part of Sheol.
Proverbs 9:18 claims the ungodly dead are guests in the depths of Sheol.
Psalm 9:17 The wicked go there.
Matthew 11:23 Jesus, after his visit, tells us that Capernam will go down to the depths.
In Ezekiel 26:20-21, where is the "Pit" ( the Bottomless Pit, the Abyss)? It describes the pit as being in the lower parts of the earth.

 

[Davy]

Is this another JW teaching? We were dead spiritually, then God drew us to Himself, His word and through a elaborate orchestrated set of events and people who came into our lives, we were persuaded by His WORD and we believed in Christ and the the whole story. This sometimes takes a lifetime to come to this realization. Some are enlightened in their youths. I became a Christian when I was 35, 32 years ago, and my folks became believers in their 80's. We asked for forgiveness of our sins and He washed them away. He lifted the veil of blindness so that we can see spiritually. Our spirit communes with the Spirit of God Who confirms our relationship with Him and dwells in us. That is what "born again' means; we have been baptized by the Holy Spirit and He takes up residence in us. He is a person, not a force, not like the wind. He may travel like the wind, but is not physical. We have body, mind and spirit. We are spirituall beings. This is why we can see the kingdom of heaven, He removed the blinders. We have already entered into the kingdom of heaven spiritually, yet still live with our flesh until it dies. To be "in Christ", we spriritually enter into Christ, so we must possess a spirit ourselves. This spirit that we are is the "new creature". It already exists. We don't wait till the end of time to get it. What we are waiting for is new resurrected bodies. Spirits in heaven are waiting for the 1st Resurrection at which time we will all receive new eternal multi-dimensional bodies like Christ has.

How can you be spiritual if you don't believe you possess a spirit or the Spirit? I am not sure, but I think you are confusing a different sense of the word. We say a person has the spirit of laughter or the spirit of anger or the spirit of giving, etc. These are attributes, motivational force, attitudes, dispositions, inclinations to express oneself emotionally, intellectually, creatively, lovingly or hatefully. Well these are expressions of a person's spirit, but not the spirit entirely . God made us in His image, meaning He made us with a body, a soul (a rational mind, will, emotions, creativelity), and a spirit. The spiritual part was dead until it is revived. The dead spirit is like a cell phone without a battery. Hello, hello ... it's dead, no connection to God. Then the Spirit gives you in a sense, a new battery. You are charged. All of a sudden you see things like never before, your world view changes, you are entightened in many ways, understand scripture, you believe it, receive deep meaning of words that never made sense to you before. Life never really made sense to you before, now it does. Now you see meaning and purpose. You are born again, You are a new creature, let's say we are G-mobile, connected to God's frequency. You pick up His signals and pray and He answers.

You are correct, and that was my point. The unbelieving Jews are constantly trying to denounce The Spirit and thus our 'spirit' inside us which communes with God. They likewise wrongly believe that our soul is part of our 'flesh' existence. Just about everything they think with spiritual matters they tend to relegate to an operation of the 'flesh'. It is that kind of thinking I was countering.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Notice what the Lord says, "The flesh profiteth nothing, the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life". The spirit that dwells within you is His word. His word gives you life eternal.

Certainly the Word of God has power to transform the heart. Jesus is the Word. He said I am the Way the Truth and the Life ...
So though His words are truth, that truth is a person. Aprat from Himbthey are printed words on a page that many have read, memorized but still di not have a relationship with Christ.
Though we are to keep His words in oir heart, God is dwelling on us. He is the Life that gives physical and spiritual life.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh

... "HE" that raised up Christ. You continue to identify the Spirit as words or a force like the wind, energy. The Holy Spirit is identified as a person, He, the Comforter, the Helper. The Spirit is not a life force packed with words. He communicates with us.
The Holy Spirit teaches, guides, cou sels, leads, gives truth, hears, speaks, bears witness to and glorifies to Christ, is wise, gives gifts, baptizes us, loves us, justifes us convicts us of sin, fellowships with us, sanctifies us, makes promises, is all powerful, all knowing and omnipresent. That sounds like God to me and a person. Words by themselves don't have a mind, will, emotions, nor are capable of any of those above actions.
Your denial of the Holy Spirit leaves you with a defect, an inability to discern scripture properly. You deprive your Temple of the Holy Spirit. He won't come into you unless you invite Him and believe He exists. This means you are not born again. Nibyoubthinkntha comes at a later time ... maybe after the Millennial Kingdom - if you pass the Jehovah Witness test of obedience? See, you aren't quite sure of your salvation, it's questionable. I know JW's that are afraid of everything, they doubt, they worry and frankly, that is the opposite of FAITH.
So at best, you believe in God as the Old Testament saints did. God dwelled in a manmade Temple outside of them.
I just wonder if by denying the Holy Spirit an invitation into yoir heart, a real relationship with Him, if that is equivalent to blasphaming the Holy Spirit? I hope not for your sake AND the sake of many members in my own family. It certainly grieves Him. Oh, that must be confusing to you, how can words grieve?
"The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God." Rom. 8:16

 

[bro.tan]

Certainly the Word of God has power to transform the heart. Jesus is the Word. He said I am the Way the Truth and the Life ...
So though His words are truth, that truth is a person. Aprat from Himbthey are printed words on a page that many have read, memorized but still di not have a relationship with Christ.
Though we are to keep His words in oir heart, God is dwelling on us. He is the Life that gives physical and spiritual life.

... "HE" that raised up Christ. You continue to identify the Spirit as words or a force like the wind, energy. The Holy Spirit is identified as a person, He, the Comforter, the Helper. The Spirit is not a life force packed with words. He communicates with us.
The Holy Spirit teaches, guides, cou sels, leads, gives truth, hears, speaks, bears witness to and glorifies to Christ, is wise, gives gifts, baptizes us, loves us, justifes us convicts us of sin, fellowships with us, sanctifies us, makes promises, is all powerful, all knowing and omnipresent. That sounds like God to me and a person. Words by themselves don't have a mind, will, emotions, nor are capable of any of those above actions.
Your denial of the Holy Spirit leaves you with a defect, an inability to discern scripture properly. You deprive your Temple of the Holy Spirit. He won't come into you unless you invite Him and believe He exists. This means you are not born again. Nibyoubthinkntha comes at a later time ... maybe after the Millennial Kingdom - if you pass the Jehovah Witness test of obedience? See, you aren't quite sure of your salvation, it's questionable. I know JW's that are afraid of everything, they doubt, they worry and frankly, that is the opposite of FAITH.
So at best, you believe in God as the Old Testament saints did. God dwelled in a manmade Temple outside of them.
I just wonder if by denying the Holy Spirit an invitation into yoir heart, a real relationship with Him, if that is equivalent to blasphaming the Holy Spirit? I hope not for your sake AND the sake of many members in my own family. It certainly grieves Him. Oh, that must be confusing to you, how can words grieve?
"The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God." Rom. 8:16

You are saying a lot, instead why not ask a question or two, so we can fellowship in that matter? Holy Ghost or spirit works according to the scriptures, before you can get the Holy Ghost one must do as it's written in Acts 2......"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, "repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38).

If we truly love God, then we will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of his mouth (Matthew 4:4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord. Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

Then Jesus will do what is says in John 14: 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Most people are keeping the commandment s nor have repented, but continue to push forward with the believing that that have the Holy Ghost.

 

[bro.tan]

.G

Our Father is spirit. Jesus has a spirit, the Holy Spirit is distinct from them, since both the Father and the Son sent Him.The Holy Spirit glorifies the Son, dwells in us and teaches us all things. Do you understand what the word dwell means? It means to live in something. We have a spirit that communes with all three.
There are evil spirits who work to deceive.
Satan works to deceive.

You said, "In other words, read the scripture and allow the book to explain itself." The Holy Spirit gives us discernment.

You say, "no one died and went to heaven except Jesus?
So I guess when Moses and Elijah appeared on the Mount of Transfiguration with Jesus _ Who was seen in His glory, they had no consciousness, they weren't alive, just empty headed apparitions? Where did they come from and go back to?

The Bible tell you that was a vision. Take your time and read the Bible with understanding.

And then I suppose you don't believe the story that Jesus told of the Rich man in Hades and Lazarus with Abraham (who was communicating to the Rich man from a different location)? I suppose you would pass this off as a parable? Luke 16:23-31 is not symbolic language! These were real locations. Jesus never used names of real people, like Abraham in parable. Why would he describe two locations _ that exist after death _ in detail _ to symbolically mean something else if they did not exist? What moral truth would be gained from something abstract? Jesus' parables were always about common experiences that people could relate to and draw meaning out of.His parables did not use detailed descriptions of fictional, abstract territories.
And then you have 2 Peter 2:4-6. Is Tarturus a real place, described as pits of darkness?
In 2 Peter 2:9, where does he keep the unrighteous _ under punishment _ until the day of judgment? Hades. Tarturus is a separate location from where the souls are.
And what place is Job describing in
Job 10:21-22?
Or in Job 11:7-8 where he describes the depths of God as being deeper than Sheol? Obviously Sheol is deeper than six feet.
And where exactly are the departed spirits trembling in Job 26:5-6?
Deuteronomy 32:22 describes God's punishment with fire that burns to the lowest part of Sheol.
Proverbs 9:18 claims the ungodly dead are guests in the depths of Sheol.
Psalm 9:17 The wicked go there.
Matthew 11:23 Jesus, after his visit, tells us that Capernam will go down to the depths.
In Ezekiel 26:20-21, where is the "Pit" ( the Bottomless Pit, the Abyss)? It describes the pit as being in the lower parts of the earth.

The Book states And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (John 3: 13)

 

[bro.tan]

And Lord Jesus said, "THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE FLESH IS FLESH, AND THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT".

So you are NOT able to try and prove Jesus was pointing to our FLESH with being 'born again' BY THE SPIRIT! Our 'spirit' INSIDE OUR FLESH BODY is what is 'born again' BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. It is our 'spirit' that is like the wind, NOT our flesh.

Well you go right ahead in believing that thought, and I'll wait for that spiritual body that moves like the wind in the first resurrection. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20: 4, 5)

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The Book states And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (John 3: 13)

At that time Jesus spoke those words, that statement was true. When he died and rose from the dead, many things changed, Heaven opened and He took those souls who were in Paradise (where Abraham and all the Old Testament faithful saints were) to Heaven.
Paul desired to depart and proclaimed, "to be absent the body is to be present with the Lord"; meaning that when we die, we go directing to heaven. This has been a fundamental belief of Christianity since Christ. When Stephen was stoned to death, he asked God to receive his spirit - AT THAT MOMENT, not in thousands of years.
And btw _ not to burst your bubble, but In Revelation, written around 95 AD, John sees visions of multitudes in heaven that no one can number (billions) coming out of the Great Tribulation in heaven.
The belief and misinterpretaiin of Rev. 7, that there is only enough room for 144k in heaven, is false!

Take your time and read the Bible with understanding

Lol. Well I do, with my teacher, the Holy Spirit, Who helps me to discern scripture.
And how much more illuminating it is with His help!

 

[Davy]

Well you go right ahead in believing that thought, and I'll wait for that spiritual body that moves like the wind in the first resurrection. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20: 4, 5)

Big sign to me of Judaizers crept into the Christian Church that show they do not know what The New Testament teaches about how God created man in 3 parts, soul, spirit, and bones and marrow (i.e., flesh). The orthodox unbelieving Jews are the ones that believe the soul is part of the flesh body when it is not. The New Testament reveals that our spirit is attached with our soul, and they both together can be separated from our flesh body. And the resurrection body type Apostle Paul taught is a "spiritual body", not ANOTHER FLESH BODY! That's what The New Testament teaches, and those who do not follow The New Testament but the Jew's religion instead, are not Christians.

 

[Enoch111]

When Jesus came out of the grave he was born into the God family (we will have a greater understanding as we go further in this).

This is just nonsense.

 

[bro.tan]

At that time Jesus spoke those words, that statement was true. When he died and rose from the dead, many things changed, Heaven opened and He took those souls who were in Paradise (where Abraham and all the Old Testament faithful saints were) to Heaven.
Paul desired to depart and proclaimed, "to be absent the body is to be present with the Lord"; meaning that when we die, we go directing to heaven. This has been a fundamental belief of Christianity since Christ. When Stephen was stoned to death, he asked God to receive his spirit - AT THAT MOMENT, not in thousands of years.
And btw _ not to burst your bubble, but In Revelation, written around 95 AD, John sees visions of multitudes in heaven that no one can number (billions) coming out of the Great Tribulation in heaven.
The belief and misinterpretaiin of Rev. 7, that there is only enough room for 144k in heaven, is false!

Jesus also says in John 5: 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

You are miss understanding the Bible, because everyone will be raise at the hour, when they hear the voice of the Son of God, and that's at the last trump.

Lol. Well I do, with my teacher, the Holy Spirit, Who helps me to discern scripture.
And how much more illuminating it is with His help!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

John 5: 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation

Absolutely, praise Jesus.
Here is an in depth teaching on this phrase, " the hour is coming and now is":

["In the synoptics the ministry of Jesus takes place in Galilee, and he is in Jerusalem only for the last week of his life. In According to John his ministry takes place mostly in Jerusalem...

In the synoptic gospels Jesus pronounces apocalyptic discourses that predict the future signs and the characteristics of the times just before the coming of the Son of Man in glory. In According to John apocalyptic discourses are not part of the teaching of Jesus. Even more importantly, the present already contains what apocalypticists expect in the future...
Already in Jerusalem for the Passover, Jesus announces, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified” (12: 23) ...

Since the disciples are supposed to identify themselves with their master, it is not surprising that one day their hour will also arrive. To prevent their becoming disoriented when their hour arrives, Jesus warns them: “the hour is coming when whoever kills you will think he is offering service to God . . . But I have said these things to you, that when their hour comes you may remember that I told you of them” (16: 2, 4)...

When a woman is in travail she has sorrow, because her hour has come; but she no longer remembers the anguish, for joy that a child is born into the world” (16: 21).
The “hour” of the woman is the hour of giving birth to “a man” (anthropos). It would seem, then, that “the hour” is when a person’s reason for living is revealed -- when one’s purpose is exposed. When certain Greeks who have come to Jerusalem to worship at Passover ask Philip: “Sir, we would see Jesus”, Philip does not know what to do with this request and consults with Andrew. Then both present the request to Jesus. The reaction of Jesus is: “Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, for this purpose I have come to this hour” (12: 27).
Father, the hour has come; glorify thy Son” (17: 1). The purpose for his being in the world had to be accomplished...

It is after his resurrection and after he has breathed on the disciples the Holy Spirit (20: 22), that Christians can worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth (4: 23). “The hour is coming, and now is,” when true worshippers, the type of worshippers the Father seeks, will adore effectively. The temple of the true worshippers is the temple of his body (2: 21). It is the temple of the Risen Christ.
Likewise, it is after his resurrection that “the hour is coming, and now is” when “the dead” hear the voice of the Son of Man and those who hear it pass from death to life (5: 25). Verse 28 then contrasts these “dead” with those who are in their tombs. Those who hear, those of faith, need to see the glorified Jesus who in this way brought eternal life to the world. Those dead in sin need not wait till harvest time. Eternal life is already a reality among Christians."]

[Edited from
Spectrum Magazine, "The Hour is coming and now is"]

 

[Davy]

Keep it simple, like the Scripture is...

John 5:25-26
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in Himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself;
KJV

That revelation above was about the time of Christ's resurrection on the cross. That happened at Jesus' 1st coming when He died on the cross...

Matt 27:52-53
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
KJV

That above was prophesied in Isaiah...

Isa 42:6-7
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
KJV

Apostle Peter gave a witness to that in 1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4 about Jesus going to the "spirits in prison" that had died back to the time of the flood, and He preached The Gospel to them. Those in Satan's prison house in the heavenly then were released, and were then given victory over death. Thus the saints that came out of their graves right after Christ's resurrection on the cross.


John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

Notice there is no "and now is" phrase in the above later example in that same Chapter. This verse 28 & 29 example is about the time of Christ's future coming, His 2nd coming that we still await. This is when all the 'dead' will be resurrected to one of those two resurrection types, to then stand before Christ during His coming Millennial reign with His elect.

 

[David in NJ]

Let's continue....

Take a look at this verse in the book of Numbers. Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Note what the verse says, God is not a man, neither is he the son of man. While Jesus walked with His disciples He called Himself the son of man. He was exactly that. He was born of a woman. But, when he was raised from the dead He was no longer in the man family neither was He flesh and blood. If he was flesh and blood He would not have been able to appear in the middle of the room with his apostles. Take a look at these verses. Can a flesh and blood man do this?

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. 28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further. 29 But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them. 30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. 31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

Look at verse 31, once they realized that it was Jesus they spoke with, what happen? He vanished out of their sight. Remember in John chapter 3 and verse 8. The Lord gave an example of how a spirit would look. He likened a spirit to the wind.( John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.) Can you or can you not see the wind?

You quoted a OT scripture which was before God came to earth as a man.

v1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

v14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.