Bridge Collapse

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O'Darby

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No. You are confusing effect with cause.

CAUSE: Cargo ship hit bridge.

EFFECT: Catastrophic collapse that possibly could have been mitigated.
No, Mr. Logic, it is you who is once again confused. He is not confusing cause and effect.

The EFFECT was the collapse.

The ACTUAL or DIRECT CAUSE of the collapse was the ship hitting the bridge.

PROXIMATE CAUSES of the collapse could have included faulty design, poor construction, poor maintenance, poor administration and any number of other contributing factors.

Proximate causes are those to which legal liability may attach.

Contributing factors too remote for legal liability to attach are simply contributing factors.
 
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Jay Ross

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Besides your criticism, what you have described is an act of coincidence or the predictable shortcomings of men.

Which if the world were actually in the hands of men, might have merit. Only it's not.

Which begs the question, as to why you have considered God last?

Sorry ScottA, I have critiqued the events that led to the outcome in this incident, and you see that as criticism. So be it.

ScottA, you are simply just another troll who likes to voice your ill-conceived opinions couched in religious geek babbling.

As for your claim that I have considered God last, the comments I have made on this incident are brief and do no span the full gambit of the "what might have been" scenarios. I have only commented on the obvious contributing factors as to why the bridge collapsed.

God has told us that the love of money is the root of all evil and it was the lack of the money being provided to build the bridge that led to the bridge collapsing.
 

ScottA

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Sorry ScottA, I have critiqued the events that led to the outcome in this incident, and you see that as criticism. So be it.

ScottA, you are simply just another troll who likes to voice your ill-conceived opinions couched in religious geek babbling.

As for your claim that I have considered God last, the comments I have made on this incident are brief and do no span the full gambit of the "what might have been" scenarios. I have only commented on the obvious contributing factors as to why the bridge collapsed.

God has told us that the love of money is the root of all evil and it was the lack of the money being provided to build the bridge that led to the bridge collapsing.

You did it again. Now you show that God's part was not "obvious" to you.

Now that you have put both feet in your mouth...surely you can come up with more name-calling. Come on, there's more where that came from...dump a little more garbage out into the light!
 

Jay Ross

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You did it again. Now you show that God's part was not "obvious" to you.

Now that you have put both feet in your mouth...surely you can come up with more name-calling. Come on, there's more where that came from...dump a little more garbage out into the light!

ScottA, I asked you a simple question in another thread, which you have not answered, and it seems that this is your way of "getting back" at me.

When I asked you to clarify what you had claimed, your response was not in keeping with the grace that God shows us all. You attempted to blow off my question as being irrelevant and foolish. People can read that thread and form their own conclusion.

If you persist in this manner, I can only assume that you really are troll and i know that you also complain about trolls that calls you to account for what you post.

Goodbye ScottA
 
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ScottA

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ScottA, I asked you a simple question in another thread, which you have not answered, and it seems that this is your way of "getting back" at me.

When I asked you to clarify what you had claimed, your response was not in keeping with the grace that God shows us all. You attempted to blow off my question as being irrelevant and foolish. People can read that thread and form their own conclusion.

If you persist in this manner, I can only assume that you really are troll and i know that you also complain about trolls that calls you to account for what you post.

Goodbye ScottA

It is you who have and continue to persisted with all manner of name-calling.

As for the other thread. Wow, such grudge. But as I don't give my opinion here on the board, I am sure the answer was correct--as from God...in spite of your emotional response.
 

Jay Ross

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It is you who have and continue to persisted with all manner of name-calling.

As for the other thread. Wow, such grudge. But as I don't give my opinion here on the board, I am sure the answer was correct--as from God...in spite of your emotional response.

So be it ScottA
 

Duck Muscles

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You are missing the point that I am making.

If the pier protection buffers had been in place from the beginning of the use of this bridge, then the ship would have been diverted away from the bridge pier and would not have hit the pier to cause the bridge to collapse. The issue was not the cargo vessel hitting the pier, the vessel hit the pier because there was no protection for the bridge pier and the bridge would not have collapsed.

The bridge was necessary for hazardous materials to cross over Chesapeake Bay as hazardous material cannot be transported through the tunnels that pass under the bay.

The construction companies who quoted on the construction were much more expensive that the engineering cost estimates and as such cost cutting was employed to enable the bridge to be built with the intention of later building the bridge's approaches etc to comply with the original design.

A short history of the bridge.

In the 1960s, the Maryland State Roads Commission concluded a need for a second harbor crossing after the earlier Baltimore Harbor Thruway and Tunnel opened in 1957. They began planning another single-tube tunnel under the Patapsco River, further to the southeast, downstream from the Baltimore Harbor Tunnel. The proposed site was between Hawkins Point and Sollers Point in the outer harbor. Plans also were under way for a drawbridge to the south over Curtis Creek, replacing an earlier 1931 drawbridge carrying Pennington Avenue over the creek, to connect Hawkins Point to Sollers Point. Extra capacity was provided by what is now known as the Fort McHenry Tunnel, a four-tube facility running under and curving around historic Fort McHenry, that opened in 1985.

The project was financed by a $220 million bond issue (equivalent to $1.9 billion in 2023) alongside the twinning of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge in October 1968. Bids for constructing the proposed Outer Harbor Tunnel were opened in July 1970, but price proposals were substantially higher than the engineering estimates. Officials drafted alternative plans, including a four-lane bridge, which the General Assembly approved in April 1971.

A bridge would provide a route across the Baltimore Harbor for vehicles transporting hazardous materials, which are prohibited from both the Baltimore Harbor and Fort McHenry tunnels. The United States Coast Guard issued its bridge permit in June 1972, replacing an earlier approval of the tunnel from the Army Corps of Engineers. Construction of the Outer Harbor Bridge began in 1972, several years behind schedule and $33 million over budget.

Baltimore engineering firm J. E. Greiner Company was selected as the primary design consultant, with only the side approaches being handled by New York City's Singstad, Kehart, November & Hurka in joint venture with Baltimore Transportation Associates, Inc. Construction was performed by the John F. Beasley Construction Company with material fabricated by the Pittsburgh-Des Moines Steel Co.
. . . . . . .
Operation

The Key Bridge opened to traffic on March 23, 1977. Including its connecting approaches, the bridge project was 1.6 miles (2.57 km) in length with 8.7 miles (14.00 km) of approach road. In 1978, the bridge received an Award of Merit from the American Institute of Steel Construction in the Long Span category. A few months after the 1980 Sunshine Skyway Bridge collapse, a cargo ship collided with the Key Bridge, but the bridge was relatively undamaged.

The bridge opened with four lanes, but its approaches were two lanes to reduce costs. The south approach was widened in 1983. A project for the north approach was completed in 1999 after several years of delays.

Link: - Francis Scott Key Bridge (Baltimore) - Wikipedia

The March 26 2024 collision of a vessel with the bridge was the second such occurrence of a collision with the bridge. The collision of a vessel with the bridge in 1980 was a relatively minor incidence but the incident in 1980 did not trigger a response from the appropriate authorities to construct bridge pier safety buffers to stop a second possible collision. The second incident was catastrophic and was preventable.

I rest my case.
I would think the "if only" scenario is a waste of time in this case.
 

Jay Ross

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I would think the "if only" scenario is a waste of time in this case.

The road authority had around 44 years to do something, after the first incident of a vessel hitting the bridge, to protect the bridge from cargo vessels.

If only the Road authority had done something sensible to protect the bridge from the vessels that passed under it, but it seems that people want to hang, draw, and quarter the Pilot because the vessel he was piloting had a power failure and subsequently had no steerage and hit the bridge pier, but he was just another victim of decisions made by others in this case.

Wisdom is learning from others and removing the possibility of the errors and mistakes from happening in your own situation. A foolish person does not learn from others and their experiences.
 

Rita

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Sorry guys but I posted this in the prayer forum and it seems to have evolved into a disagreement - seeing as this is my own thread I am choosing to lock it - so if you want to discuss it in more detail perhaps you would like to start a new thread in another forum xx
 
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