By Love Serve One Another

[Ritajanice]

We lay down our own life to bear the life of Christ and thus bear an eternal kind of fruit. We sow the outer man in death to allow the inner man to be joined to Christ (the new husband)...to walk IN Him. In Him is no sin.

We must be grafted into the true vine, Jesus , to bear any of His fruit...in other words we must be Born Again.

We sow the outer man in death to allow the inner man to be joined to Christ.....?

We are joined to Christ by His Spirit, when we become Born Again....our spirit is what becomes Born Again...therefore becomes right before God...imo/ belief.

 

[Lizbeth]

Are you supernaturally empowered to get out of bed in the morning?

Sometimes these days I sure could use His unction to get out of bed in the morning, yes, lol. But seriously, to your point, yes we are to do whatever we can..... until we run out of our own strength. "Cast your bread upon the waters (til we run out of bread) and after many days it will come back to you." That's a scripture the Lord gave me one time when I was dealing with a perplexing situation and didn't feel I was handling it right in spite of myself, and didn't know what to do otherwise, kind of a rock and a hard place.....the Lord was saying to do my best with what I have and He will sort me out down the road. Yes, we need to do our best....investing whatever little we have been given....and the return of what comes back to us down the road to give back to Him again will be, I believe.....something that has been perfected by Him.

But I suspect you would argue with me even if it means you are arguing with yourself sometimes in the process.

 

[Lizbeth]

We are being made into the image of Jesus...by God’s power.

We learn from the Spirit.....His Spirit will bring us in line with God’s will...in His timing....nothing to do with “ our” timing......

He works in our heart .....we are under His workmanship.

​

◄ Ephesians 2:10 ►

​

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. New Living Translation For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago. English Standard Version For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Berean Standard Bible For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life. Berean Literal Bible For we are His workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Amen...and that way HE gets the glory too.

 

[Lizbeth]

It is those who do the will of the Father that are saved. And God commands us to love. In whatever capacity we have...whether of ourselves OR of Christ. The lower standard is covered by God's mercy...the higher standard gets an eternal reward. One inherits the earth...and the other abides in the holy city to be with God forever.

How does the gospel fit into what you are saying?

Rom 10:9-14

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

[Episkopos]

How does the gospel fit into what you are saying?

Rom 10:9-14

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

The Gospel


Level 1: The gospel on the most basic human level is about God's mercy on those who love Him. So these turn from their wickedness, and stop doing evil, lying, swearing, being dishonest...and take responsibility for their actions, becoming accountable before God and a good example before men. Such are the righteous. Just watched a movie called "Courageous'. Pretty good except for the weird American style version of the gospel. This portrayal of righteousness is correct. but it is at the very basic level...so then its hard to miss. That level is an OLD TESTAMENT standard...the standard of righteousness..doing the best we can do with what we have been given. Modern churchianity takes that standard as a holy standard (which it is not) and cancels ANY righteousness outside themselves. So then they bring a holy condemnation onto themselves by stealing righteousness away from the righteous in order to justify themselves. Of course its never wrong to do the right thing. But to claim exclusivity for what any man can do...is a lie. The gospel of the kingdom is about the power to walk above sin in the holy presence of God.

Level 2: The actual New Covenant gospel is based on power from heaven to walk as Jesus walked...without sin. The upper walk is basically unknown in the decoy churches that abound as so many fast-food restaurant franchises....and with the same nutritional value...little to none. Those who claim to be Christ's need to go to the cross...to not be named as a liar. The holiness level comes with a HARD judgment. If we judge others...then we will be condemned to outer darkness. We need MORE fear (fear and trembling) to eradicate the mixture we are by being purged through the cross of Christ. In Christ we learn to love others...whether we are in the Spirit (loving as He loved) or else in our own strength (learning mercy and compassion).

What I see is that so many are not qualified on either level. Both levels require humility and the fear of the Lord. A saint fears the Lord MORE than any righteous person...because they have trembled before the very throne of God. Many modern religious types are just pretenders who are stored up for future judgment. There will be weeping and anger.

 

[Episkopos]

Sometimes these days I sure could use His unction to get out of bed in the morning, yes, lol. But seriously, to your point, yes we are to do whatever we can..... until we run out of our own strength. "Cast your bread upon the waters (til we run out of bread) and after many days it will come back to you." That's a scripture the Lord gave me one time when I was dealing with a perplexing situation and didn't feel I was handling it right in spite of myself, and didn't know what to do otherwise, kind of a rock and a hard place.....the Lord was saying to do my best with what I have and He will sort me out down the road. Yes, we need to do our best....investing whatever little we have been given....and the return of what comes back to us down the road to give back to Him again will be, I believe.....something that has been perfected by Him.

But I suspect you would argue with me even if it means you are arguing with yourself sometimes in the process.

You argue against yourself. Do you realize you are talking about an Old Testament standard of doing our best? Not a New Covenant standard at all. The New Covenant is about Christ doing the works through people. A perfect and holy standard NOT available in the OT times.

Now, argue against everything you just wrote.

 

[Ritajanice]

The Gospel


Level 1: The gospel on the most basic human level is about God's mercy on those who love Him. So these turn from their wickedness, and stop doing evil, lying, swearing, being dishonest...and take responsibility for their actions, becoming accountable before God and a good example before men. Such are the righteous. Just watched a movie called "Courageous'. Pretty good except for the weird American style version of the gospel. This portrayal of righteousness is correct. but it is at the very basic level...so then its hard to miss. That level is an OLD TESTAMENT standard...the standard of righteousness..doing the best we can do with what we have been given. Modern churchianity takes that standard as a holy standard (which it is not) and cancels ANY righteousness outside themselves. So then they bring a holy condemnation onto themselves by stealing righteousness away from the righteous in order to justify themselves. Of course its never wrong to do the right thing. But to claim exclusivity for what any man can do...is a lie. The gospel of the kingdom is about the power to walk above sin in the holy presence of God.

Level 2: The actual New Covenant gospel is based on power from heaven to walk as Jesus walked...without sin. The upper walk is basically unknown in the decoy churches that abound as so many fast-food restaurant franchises....and with the same nutritional value...little to none. Those who claim to be Christ's need to go to the cross...to not be named as a liar. The holiness level comes with a HARD judgment. If we judge others...then we will be condemned to outer darkness. We need MORE fear (fear and trembling) to eradicate the mixture we are by being purged through the cross of Christ. In Christ we learn to love others...whether we are in the Spirit (loving as He loved) or else in our own strength (learning mercy and compassion).

What I see is that so many are not qualified on either level. Both levels require humility and the fear of the Lord. A saint fears the Lord MORE than any righteous person...because they have trembled before the very throne of God. Many modern religious types are just pretenders who are stored up for future judgment. There will be weeping and anger.

This is all of your opinion / testimony and belief.

It’s not scriptural...it’s your own commentary.

Therefore void of God’s truth...that is your truth....

Same as my opinions, they are void of God’s truth...

 

[Lizbeth]

You argue against yourself. Do you realize you are talking about an Old Testament standard of doing our best? Not a New Covenant standard at all. The New Covenant is about Christ doing the works through people. A perfect and holy standard NOT available in the OT times.

Now, argue against everything you just wrote.

Sensitive, aren't you. You really need to look into that, with the Lord.

I'm talking about doing our best period. Loving the Lord with all our strength, whatever strength we have...usually a mixture of flesh and spirit for the child of God who comes to realize we are often falling short in spite of our best efforts. Can't win for losing kind of thing. You're ignoring the part where I said until we come to the end of our own strength (such as it was).

 

[Episkopos]

This is all of your opinion / testimony and belief.

It’s not scriptural...it’s your own commentary.

Therefore void of God’s truth...that is your truth....

Same as my opinions, they are void of God’s truth...

Funny how you claim to be born of incorruptible seed yet stand by human opinions. I speak the truth...not opinions. The fact that I can use words to express the truth that don't parrot the bible exactly means that one has to actually UNDERSTAND what the bible is saying.

 

[Episkopos]

Sensitive, aren't you. You really need to look into that, with the Lord.

I'm talking about doing our best period. Loving the Lord with all our strength, whatever strength we have...usually a mixture of flesh and spirit for the child of God who comes to realize we are often falling short in spite of our best efforts. Can't win for losing kind of thing. You're ignoring the part where I said until we come to the end of our own strength (such as it was).

LOL. I am simply a mirror into your argument. You claim to do your best whereas grace is not about your best...but God's perfection. And you condemn others for doing their best. That's actually what human strength does...regardless of religious affiliation.

So you are admitting to have a religious effort. Then why condemn others who are doing the same? Why not seek the Lord for His grace?

 

[Lizbeth]

This portrayal of righteousness is correct. but it is at the very basic level...so then its hard to miss. That level is an OLD TESTAMENT standard...the standard of righteousness..doing the best we can do with what we have been given. Modern churchianity takes that standard as a holy standard (which it is not) and cancels ANY righteousness outside themselves. So then they bring a holy condemnation onto themselves by stealing righteousness away from the righteous in order to justify themselves. Of course its never wrong to do the right thing. But to claim exclusivity for what any man can do...is a lie.

So there is no difference between the child of God doing good and the lost soul doing good? No benefit from knowing Christ?

What does it mean where it says He has chosen the weak things of this world to shame the strong? Are the children of God strong in our own righteousness? No, I would say most of us were and are weak and need God's strength. Poor in spirit. Where does that put those who are strong in their own righteousness and don't know Jesus?

What does it mean where Jesus said no man can come to the Father but by me? Please tell me what that means to you with respect to the things you are saying about "righteous" people who don't know Jesus.

Level 2: The actual New Covenant gospel is based on power from heaven to walk as Jesus walked...without sin. The upper walk is basically unknown in the decoy churches that abound as so many fast-food restaurant franchises....and with the same nutritional value...little to none.

But you just said it's good to be righteous on the same level as righteous unbelievers. So why be so hard on a church that endeavours to live up to that level. You are worried about Christians being bigoted against lost souls who are living righteously, while you seem bigoted and critical of believers who are living righteously.

If we judge others...then we will be condemned to outer darkness. We need MORE fear (fear and trembling) to eradicate the mixture we are by being purged through the cross of Christ. In Christ we learn to love others...whether we are in the Spirit (loving as He loved) or else in our own strength (learning mercy and compassion).

Amen. I don't disagree with that in the main, amen. But wasn't your comment about the American gospel being "weird", judgmental?

What I see is that so many are not qualified on either level. Both levels require humility and the fear of the Lord. A saint fears the Lord MORE than any righteous person...because they have trembled before the very throne of God. Many modern religious types are just pretenders who are stored up for future judgment. There will be weeping and anger.

(And the definition of a modern religious type pretender of course is anyone who disagrees with or questions Epi.)

There are a lot of people who call themselves Christians (but are not), as well as lost souls who reject Christianity, as well as many who are Christians, who are living righteously and doing good works, but are actually self-righteous. Though I give all I have to the poor, but have not love....etc. That is why I don't consider the righteousness of man to be of any eternal value in itself, whether it is the lost being "righteous" or the saved. ( I include my own righteousness in that as well.) The bible says the flesh profits nothing, doesn't it? But if one is at least endeavouring to live righteously from a sincere love of God and for His sake, casting our bread upon the waters, I believe it may lead to something better and higher and of eternal value once we at least realize and acknowledge how we fall short in ourselves and begin sorrowing and seeking for what we lack. Blessed are you who mourn....

 

[Lizbeth]

LOL. I am simply a mirror into your argument. You claim to do your best whereas grace is not about your best...but God's perfection. And you condemn others for doing their best. That's actually what human strength does...regardless of religious affiliation.

So you are admitting to have a religious effort. Then why condemn others who are doing the same? Why not seek the Lord for His grace?

No, I'm not condemning folks...where did you get that idea? And of course we need to seek God for His grace, amen.....we don't tend to do that until we start to realize we need it.

But I know this is you as usual, tarring with your broad brush everyone who doesn't see eye to eye with you.

 

[Episkopos]

So there is no difference between the child of God doing good and the lost soul doing good? No benefit from knowing Christ?

Does a good work have a prejudice? Is God a respecter of persons? It should comes as no surprise that a Christian does good. Righteous is as righteous does. The problem is when religious people judge others when they are superior to themselves.

What does it mean where it says He has chosen the weak things of this world to shame the strong?

God empowers the weak to be as strong as He is. His grace makes us perfect in our weakness.

Are the children of God strong in our own righteousness?

The righteous don't claim to be righteous. Only the self-righteous do. Those who walk in holiness testify to a greater righteousness at work in them.

No, I would say most of us were and are weak and need God's strength. Poor in spirit. Where does that put those who are strong in their own righteousness and don't know Jesus?

Are you speaking of religious people here? How many claim to be righteous in the church?

What does it mean where Jesus said no man can come to the Father but by me? Please tell me what that means to you with respect to the things you are saying about "righteous" people who don't know Jesus.

There is more than one level of righteousness...just as there is more than one level of responsibility. No one comes to the Father but by Christ..into a holy walk without sin. Those who walk in the Father abide in Christ in whom is no sin. In Him is no sin.

But you just said it's good to be righteous on the same level as righteous unbelievers.

At the very least...yes. That way we won't be rejected from the kingdom. Unless our own righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees...

So why be so hard on a church that endeavours to live up to that level.

..who CLAIMS that level but lies. Why would God put up with liars. read in Revelation what God does with liars...now compare that to all the pretend stuff you believe in about yourself...calling something that doesn't exist..as if it was true. The very definition of a lie. But you won't see that.

You are worried about Christians being bigoted against lost souls who are living righteously, while you seem bigoted and critical of believers who are living righteously.

Who claim to live righteously but don't. God does not abide liars.

Amen. I don't disagree with that in the main, amen. But wasn't your comment about the American gospel being "weird", judgmental?


(And the definition of a modern religious type pretender of course is anyone who disagrees with or questions Epi.)

How can you know so little about the truth...and the bible? From a carnal perspective you mean?

There are a lot of people who call themselves Christians (but are not), as well as lost souls who reject Christianity, as well as many who are Christians, who are living righteously and doing good works, but are actually self-righteous. Though I give all I have to the poor, but have not love....etc. That is why I don't consider the righteousness of man to be of any eternal value in itself, whether it is the lost being "righteous" or the saved. ( I include my own righteousness in that as well.) The bible says the flesh profits nothing, doesn't it? But if one is at least endeavouring to live righteously from a sincere love of God and for His sake, casting our bread upon the waters, I believe it may lead to something better and higher and of eternal value once we at least realize and acknowledge how we fall short in ourselves and begin sorrowing and seeking for what we lack. Blessed are you who mourn....

The human heart is a desperately wicked thing. So easy to deceive oneself...

 

[Lizbeth]

Does a good work have a prejudice? Is God a respecter of persons? It should comes as no surprise that a Christian does good. Righteous is as righteous does.

You didn't answer my question. No need to know Christ if we can be saved by our own righteousness.

..who CLAIMS that level but lies. Why would God put up with liars. read in Revelation what God does with liars...now compare that to all the pretend stuff you believe in about yourself...calling something that doesn't exist..as if it was true. The very definition of a lie. But you won't see that.

I was talking about the level of righteousness...which you say is acceptable to God. What pretend stuff that I believe about myself? I don't believe there is anything good in me, apart from Christ. False accusations are lies, which you do an awful lot of....

The human heart is a desperately wicked thing. So easy to deceive oneself...

Yes indeed the heart is deceitfully wicked, who can know it? Might want to check yourself while you're at it....ask the Lord to give you light.

In realizing that there is no eternal value in my own righteousness and that my own righteousness profits nothing, I'm deceiving myself? Oh my no, that's the truth. But you keep believing what you want Epi.

It's so strange that you keep rebuking, accusing and judging people for not doing what you're not doing either. It doesn't seem to bother you too much about yourself. Isnt' that called hypocrisy? (shrug - oh well.)

 

[Ritajanice]

The pot calling the kettle black​

"The pot calling the kettle black" is a proverbial idiom that may be of Spanish origin, of which English versions began to appear in the first half of the 17th century. It means a situation in which somebody accuses someone else of a fault which the accuser shares, and therefore is an example of psychological projection,[1] or hypocrisy.[2] Use of the expression to discredit or deflect a claim of wrongdoing by attacking the originator of the claim for their own similar behaviour (rather than acknowledging the guilt of both) is the tu quoque logical fallacy.

 

[Azim]

Great video Epi. One part that stood out to me was serving the saints. It reminded me of a time, a few years back, after the church service. I run the sound at church, as a volunteer, and it is part of my duty to put away the equipment on the stage. Our music director is one of the few paid staff members. One Sunday, I was putting things away, and a brother on the worship team told me to leave some equipment, so the music director can put it away, since he was paid. I found this as a un-Christ like advice. I didn't listen to him, and continued to do so. If anything, I was motivated to make sure as much of the equipment was put away, so the music director didn't have to deal with it. Doing so, blessed him, as many members of the congregation come up and talk to him after the service, since he is viewed as a pastor as well. If anything, showing this love and sacrificing a small amount of time, allowed the music director to minister to others, and not worry about other tasks after the service.

 

[Episkopos]

You didn't answer my question. No need to know Christ if we can be saved by our own righteousness.

Only God can save us. Why do you go from one extreme to the other without any regard for balance? Only modern believers think they are saved. I don't know many outside the church who claim to be saved. So where is the self-righteousness? Among the religious. The righteous don't consider themselves to be righteous.

I was talking about the level of righteousness...which you say is acceptable to God.

Again with the extremes God accepts all who fear Him and do righteousness...as it says in the bible. You really need to compare your opinions with what is actually written in the bible.

But to PLEASE God one needs faith...whereby we are translated into the higher kingdom walk...from our faith into HIS faith. From our righteousness into His.

What pretend stuff that I believe about myself? I don't believe there is anything good in me, apart from Christ. False accusations are lies, which you do an awful lot of....


Yes indeed the heart is deceitfully wicked, who can know it? Might want to check yourself while you're at it....ask the Lord to give you light.

In realizing that there is no eternal value in my own righteousness and that my own righteousness profits nothing, I'm deceiving myself? Oh my no, that's the truth. But you keep believing what you want Epi.

It's so strange that you keep rebuking, accusing and judging people for not doing what you're not doing either. It doesn't seem to bother you too much about yourself. Isnt' that called hypocrisy? (shrug - oh well.)

You can see that I'm not in your religious category...believing instead in humility and the fear of the Lord...and real faith and real connection to God. You read the bible and then justify yourself by placing yourself in a positive verse loop. And all the other exploiters of Jesus will agree with you because they do the very same thing. Exploiters unite? Will God not call this out?

 

[Episkopos]

Great video Epi. One part that stood out to me was serving the saints. It reminded me of a time, a few years back, after the church service. I run the sound at church, as a volunteer, and it is part of my duty to put away the equipment on the stage. Our music director is one of the few paid staff members. One Sunday, I was putting things away, and a brother on the worship team told me to leave some equipment, so the music director can put it away, since he was paid. I found this as a un-Christ like advice. I didn't listen to him, and continued to do so. If anything, I was motivated to make sure as much of the equipment was put away, so the music director didn't have to deal with it. Doing so, blessed him, as many members of the congregation come up and talk to him after the service, since he is viewed as a pastor as well. If anything, showing this love and sacrificing a small amount of time, allowed the music director to minister to others, and not worry about other tasks after the service.

Thank you for your kind words. At least there are some here who agree with loving service towards others. So surprised that there is so much animosity to serving others. But even though your heart is right in doing service at your church, I wouldn't use the religious system as an example of serving the saints. That person already has a reward who gets a salary. Serving OUTSIDE the church services was what I was talking about. Outside the camp...bearing His reproach.

But the fault is not with those who serve the system...although I see this as misguided. How many tithe to the religious system thinking that this is the same thing as serving the saints? But we are to do all as serving the Lord...so the greater fault is with the exploiters of religion who see religion as a means of gain.

 

[APAK]

@Lizbeth it is sad that I see/read on this site, that there are many folks that are still desperate and struggling, trying to please God in their way, in a self-righteous way. And apparently still seeking faith in Christ for their salvation. Maybe they do not think they are worthy or good-enough to please God by first opening up their hearts to the gospel and then in true repentance.

As scripture reaffirms within me, in my heart, faith was given to me as a gift, by God, by way of his grace, to please him. I'm truly glad I already have this faith and use it daily, to please my God, as I surmise you do as well.

God has already given us the faith required to please Him, as a genuine believer.

(Eph 2:8) For by grace have you been saved through faith, and that faith is not of yourselves, it is a gift from God.
(Eph 2:9) It is not of works, that no one should boast.
(Eph 2:10) For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God beforehand prepared that we should walk in them.

(Rom 1:16) For I am not ashamed of the gospel. For it is the power of God to salvation to everyone that believes- to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
(Rom 1:17) For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith to faith. As it is written: But the righteous shall live by faith.


Blessings to you sister

 

[Episkopos]

@Lizbeth it is sad that I see/read on this site, that there are many folks that are still desperate and struggling, trying to please God in their way, in a self-righteous way. And apparently still seeking faith in Christ for their salvation. Maybe they do not think they are worthy or good-enough to please God by first opening up their hearts to the gospel and then in true repentance.

As scripture reaffirms within me, in my heart, faith was given to me as a gift, by God, by way of his grace, to please him. I'm truly glad I already have this faith and use it daily, to please my God, as I surmise you do as well.

God has already given us the faith required to please Him, as a genuine believer.

(Eph 2:8) For by grace have you been saved through faith, and that faith is not of yourselves, it is a gift from God.
(Eph 2:9) It is not of works, that no one should boast.
(Eph 2:10) For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God beforehand prepared that we should walk in them.

(Rom 1:16) For I am not ashamed of the gospel. For it is the power of God to salvation to everyone that believes- to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
(Rom 1:17) For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith to faith. As it is written: But the righteous shall live by faith.


Blessings to you sister

This is speaking of the higher walk...the miraculous walk in the faith OF Christ...in resurrection life and power. It's funny that people will claim these kind of verses while denying the power that gives us victory over all things....sin included. That's the issue then...to name and claim while denying the power that raised Jesus from the dead...within the actual believer who has been translated into the kingdom walk.

Is Christianity a philosophical belief system whereby unreality embraces truth and makes claims based on that? Or is it the power to walk as Jesus walked?