By Love Serve One Another

[APAK]

This is speaking of the higher walk...the miraculous walk in the faith OF Christ...in resurrection life and power. It's funny that people will claim these kind of verses while denying the power that gives us victory over all things....sin included. That's the issue then...to name and claim while denying the power that raised Jesus from the dead...within the actual believer who has been translated into the kingdom walk.

Is Christianity a philosophical belief system whereby unreality embraces truth and makes claims based on that? Or is it the power to walk as Jesus walked?

I do not know anything about your 'higher walk' Epi. After all these years it's still a mystery to me. I have tried fitting this concept into every shape I know in scripture and of my own thoughts. Nothing will compliment it, or nothing is congruence with it, or fits for understanding it.

I do know though, that to do justice to your post, as I really want to, as my response, it requires more that a simple 'I agree' or a nonagreement with a sentence or two for support.

To answer what is this 'higher walk,' 'the 'miraculous' walk in the faith of Christ,' the 'resurrection life and power,' 'the power to walk (exactly?) as Jesus walked,' I first need to reveal my view of the nature of the Father and his Son. And for me, one is the true source of divinity, the one person divine God, and the other is the human created Son, with divine qualities in immortality today.

So, my response is based on my Christology and Theology and it will dictate Jesus' type' of walk, quantity and in what, and its perfectness (degree) of faith in 'all' things, 'his power' walk, and then how it measures up to his Father, and how we measure to it, or can measure up to it and attain it for our human life today.

Of course, the answer to your 1st question is a resounding No! And the second question requires a more detailed explanation and build-up. And I just began in doing this....I think you might understand...

 

[Ritajanice]

I do not know anything about your 'higher walk'

I don’t believe that there is a higher walk.

What does God’s word say....” I chose you for “ MY” Purpose and plan.....we as Born Again of imperishable/incorruptible seed are led by the Spirit.....

He is the one who is making us into the image of Jesus, by His Power and His power Alone.

God’s word is very simple to understand, it’s when men/ woman start complicating His word, to suit their own understanding....they add to Gods word...

We communicate with God via His Spirit do we not?

That can take years to develop..as we were once in the flesh...then boom we have become Born Again...then we have to learn to communicate with God via His Spirit.

Just like we learn to communicate with our human parents.....we do the same with our Spiritual Father....we learn to communicate with via our helper...the Living Holy Spirit....I know nothing of God without the helper...he is the only one who can speak God’s truth to our heart/ spirit.

We can show human love to the poor of course....can we show God’s Love to the poor without His Spirit...definitely not...imo/ belief.

We must know the Love Of God in our hearts...before we can show the Love of God to others...as it’s the Spirit of God in our spirit that Loves others through us....it’s not human love..it’s Gods love that my granddaughter,grandson,Son, see in me....my grandchildren love it, they love being told that Grandma loves them..it’s the Spirit through me who loves them dearly.....he works in our hearts, opens it up, makes it softer to love as he loves...remember we have that new heart/ Spirit within when we become Born Again...

Softening of the heart is a process that only God can do.....once we become Born Again..all imo/ belief.

We have a “ Living” relationship with God...he’s not a book, he’s a Living Spirit....who lives in our spirit.

Praise God you’re Alive in my spirit...Lord..Hallelujah and Praise God!!

 

[Episkopos]

I do not know anything about your 'higher walk' Epi. After all these years it's still a mystery to me. I have tried fitting this concept into every shape I know in scripture and of my own thoughts. Nothing will compliment it, or nothing is congruence with it, or fits for understanding it.

I appreciate that this is a mystery. But God has left plenty of evidence in the bible and so many warnings....that one would have to throw out half of scripture in order to refute the existence of the higher walk in holiness. To walk as Jesus walked? without sin? Who does that without heavenly power? And what is grace? God looking the other way? Or else the power that takes away sin...IOW that causes us to be translated into the kingdom walk. And all the warnings about fearing the Lord. I don't know ANY believers that have accepted the reformist view, that also fear the Lord with trembling. These see God as a friend...and Jesus as a kind of buddy. And this is OK IF one has the outer man out of the way. But the true state of the church is that it is still in mixture....still in a place where one needs to realize "the terror of the Lord".

I do know though, that to do justice to your post, as I really want to, as my response, it requires more that a simple 'I agree' or a nonagreement with a sentence or two for support.

To answer what is this 'higher walk,' 'the 'miraculous' walk in the faith of Christ,' the 'resurrection life and power,' 'the power to walk (exactly?) as Jesus walked,' I first need to reveal my view of the nature of the Father and his Son. And for me, one is the true source of divinity, the one person divine God, and the other is the human created Son, with divine qualities in immortality today.

So, my response is based on my Christology and Theology and it will dictate Jesus' type' of walk, quantity and in what, and its perfectness (degree) of faith in 'all' things, 'his power' walk, and then how it measures up to his Father, and how we measure to it, or can measure up to it and attain it for our human life today.

Of course, the answer to your 1st question is a resounding No! And the second question requires a more detailed explanation and build-up. And I just began in doing this....I think you might understand...

Your position has a consistency to it that those who believe Jesus is God so often are lacking. Yet in either way of seeing...Jesus was without sin. He overcame the world...as we are to be empowered to do so as well.

I know that Jesus is God...but there are nuances that no creed can succinctly wrap up and tie in a bow...as men love to do.

Jesus Christ empowers us to walk in divinity with Him...in a holy place...Zion, the kingdom of God. We are to seek to enter into that kingdom through the door which is Christ. This is not a philosophical idea or a religious belief...but an actual encounter with the living God...otherwise how could Jesus say to so many believers and followers.."Go away, I never knew you" Knowing Jesus is ONLY in the higher walk...a walk of intimacy whereby one partakes of the divine nature, holiness, and power of God...in a walk that fulfills the commandments. The realm of the Spirit is a realm of divine love, that causes us to walk exactly as Jesus walked. To see as Jesus saw, to love as He loved...and to be treated with disdain as He was.

 

[Episkopos]

I don’t believe that there is a higher walk.

What does God’s word say....” I chose you for “ MY” Purpose and plan.....we as Born Again of imperishable/incorruptible seed are led by the Spirit.....

He is the one who is making us into the image of Jesus, by His Power and His power Alone.

God’s word is very simple to understand, it’s when men/ woman start complicating His word, to suit their own understanding....they add to Gods word...

We communicate with God via His Spirit do we not?

That can take years to develop..as we were once in the flesh...then boom we have become Born Again...then we have to learn to communicate with God via His Spirit.

Just like we learn to communicate with our human parents.....we do the same with our Spiritual Father....we learn to communicate with via our helper...the Living Holy Spirit....I know nothing of God without the helper...he is the only one who can speak God’s truth to our heart/ spirit.

We can show human love to the poor of course....can we show God’s Love to the poor without His Spirit...definitely not...imo/ belief.

We must know the Love Of God in our hearts...before we can show the Love of God to others...as it’s the Spirit of God in our spirit that Loves others through us....it’s not human love..it’s Gods love that my granddaughter,grandson,Son, see in me....my grandchildren love it, they love being told that Grandma loves them..it’s the Spirit through me who loves them dearly.....he works in our hearts, opens it up, makes it softer to love as he loves...remember we have that new heart/ Spirit within when we become Born Again...

Softening of the heart is a process that only God can do.....once we become Born Again..all imo/ belief.

We have a “ Living” relationship with God...he’s not a book, he’s a Living Spirit....who lives in our spirit.

Praise God you’re Alive in my spirit...Lord..Hallelujah and Praise God!!

We can be led of the Spirit in the wilderness walk..where we are still a mixture of flesh and Spirit. But there is more to the Christian walk than that. Paul was born again. You are NOT MORE born again than Paul was...regardless of what you think. And yet he sought to "win Christ". He was running a race to enter into a divine intimacy in a higher walk that is in holiness. A place where there is NO sin. The place of the Bride of Christ. So Paul was wanting to be qualified to be a member of the close intimacy of the Bride.

I see that heavenly pursuit, that marks the New Testament calling...the upward calling...totally absent from what has become a decoy establishment of religious certainty. That very certainty gets in the way of a faith that is pleasing to God. So, as Paul does in his epistles...I warn people. There will be such disappointment on that day when all is revealed.

The fear of the Lord is still the beginning of wisdom. But the foolish rage and are confident.

 

[APAK]

I don’t believe that there is a higher walk.

What does God’s word say....” I chose you for “ MY” Purpose and plan.....we as Born Again of imperishable/incorruptible seed are led by the Spirit.....

He is the one who is making us into the image of Jesus, by His Power and His power Alone.

God’s word is very simple to understand, it’s when men/ woman start complicating His word, to suit their own understanding....they add to Gods word...

We communicate with God via His Spirit do we not?

That can take years to develop..as we were once in the flesh...then boom we have become Born Again...then we have to learn to communicate with God via His Spirit.

Just like we learn to communicate with our human parents.....we do the same with our Spiritual Father....we learn to communicate with via our helper...the Living Holy Spirit....I know nothing of God without the helper...he is the only one who can speak God’s truth to our heart/ spirit.

We can show human love to the poor of course....can we show God’s Love to the poor without His Spirit...definitely not...imo/ belief.

We must know the Love Of God in our hearts...before we can show the Love of God to others...as it’s the Spirit of God in our spirit that Loves others through us....it’s not human love..it’s Gods love that my granddaughter,grandson,Son, see in me....my grandchildren love it, they love being told that Grandma loves them..it’s the Spirit through me who loves them dearly.....he works in our hearts, opens it up, makes it softer to love as he loves...remember we have that new heart/ Spirit within when we become Born Again...

Softening of the heart is a process that only God can do.....once we become Born Again..all imo/ belief.

We have a “ Living” relationship with God...he’s not a book, he’s a Living Spirit....who lives in our spirit.

Praise God you’re Alive in my spirit...Lord..Hallelujah and Praise God!!

RJ, I agree in how and even why the Spirit moves in our lives to conform to and within our purpose and function within the Body, in Christ, who is the head and our mediator to God.

 

[Episkopos]

RJ, I agree in how and even why the Spirit moves in our lives to conform to and within our purpose and function within the Body, in Christ, who is the head and our mediator to God.

He does...we can be led of the Spirit. And those who are led by the Spirit are not under the law...but neither are they under grace...they are in TRANSITION...the wilderness walk. Of course God gives times of refreshing in the wilderness walk. And most will be satisfied with that level of walk.

But God isn't.

That's the thing about knowing the Lord. He gives us tools so that we do something with them. Grace is an empowerment to do His will.

It would be like waking up one day and seeing the gift of an excavator (earth mover) in our back yard. We thank God for that gift. And periodically we get the machine serviced...for free.. a free gift! But what are we DOING with it? Are we simply ready to accept the gift without the responsibility for having it?

So then the one who fears God is AFRAID of the gift....like WHAT DOES GOD WANT ME TO DO!!!!!! What is MY responsibility for having this gift?

A religious certainty prides itself on having received something from God. It becomes what is suited to OUR purpose...not God's. "Look how favoured I am"...born of incorruptible seed and all. But God has HIS OWN purpose...and very few are paying attention to that.

To whom much is given MORE is required!

 

[Ritajanice]

We can be led of the Spirit in the wilderness walk..

Yes, 100% agree.

where we are still a mixture of flesh and Spirit.

I understand this, thank you.

But there is more to the Christian walk than that. Paul was born again. You are NOT MORE born again than Paul was...regardless of what you think. And yet he sought to "win Christ". He was running a race to enter into a divine intimacy in a higher walk that is in holiness. A place where there is NO sin. The place of the Bride of Christ. So Paul was wanting to be qualified to be a member of the close intimacy of the Bride.

I seek the will of God..I don’t seek my will...I pray for God’s will to be done in me...I pray for God’s Love to radiate from within me, to shine out of me like a bright beacon...he is doing exactly that...imo/ belief...

The Spirit is bringing me inline with God’s will, so that I can do his will on this earth, whatever that may be..he has given me a Love for others, not human love ,the Holy Spirit Love....An Amazing Love!...there is none like it!....

I see that heavenly pursuit, that marks the New Testament calling...the upward calling...totally absent from what has become a decoy establishment of religious certainty. That very certainty gets in the way of a faith that is pleasing to God. So, as Paul does in his epistles...I warn people. There will be such disappointment on that day when all is revealed.

Thanks for your opinion.

The fear of the Lord is still the beginning of wisdom. But the foolish rage and are confident.

I fear the Lord as in going against his will, I would never do that willfully.

God is the only one that understands me...if I have a hissy fit, do I fear him then..no...as I’ve explained the Spirit is always at work within me....working in my heart to bring it in line for service, to GLORIFY HIS NAME!!..ONLY.

This is my opinion/ testimony/ belief.xxx

 

[Lizbeth]

The pot calling the kettle black​

"The pot calling the kettle black" is a proverbial idiom that may be of Spanish origin, of which English versions began to appear in the first half of the 17th century. It means a situation in which somebody accuses someone else of a fault which the accuser shares, and therefore is an example of psychological projection,[1] or hypocrisy.[2] Use of the expression to discredit or deflect a claim of wrongdoing by attacking the originator of the claim for their own similar behaviour (rather than acknowledging the guilt of both) is the tu quoque logical fallacy.

Exactly. One would think a little humility would be in order from someone who once walked a "higher walk" but fell from it.

 

[APAK]

He does...we can be led of the Spirit. And those who are led by the Spirit are not under the law...but neither are they under grace...they are in TRANSITION...the wilderness walk. Of course God gives times of refreshing in the wilderness walk. And most will be satisfied with that level of walk.

But God isn't.

That's the thing about knowing the Lord. He gives us tools so that we do something with them. Grace is an empowerment to do His will.

It would be like waking up one day and seeing the gift of an excavator (earth mover) in our back yard. We thank God for that gift. And periodically we get the machine serviced...for free.. a free gift! But what are we DOING with it? Are we simply ready to accept the gift without the responsibility for having it?

So then the one who fears God is AFRAID of the gift....like WHAT DOES GOD WANT ME TO DO!!!!!! What is MY responsibility for having this gift?

A religious certainty prides itself on having received something from God. It becomes what is suited to OUR purpose...not God's. "Look how favoured I am"...born of incorruptible seed and all. But God has HIS OWN purpose...and very few are paying attention to that.

To whom much is given MORE is required!

You construction and one of your fundamental pillars of truth for your personal doctrine forces you to maintain a firm stance or grip of a different and exotic view of God's given grace for our salvation. There is no transitional 'wilderness' walk if one is truly converted by the Spirit of God. It is a true gift and His word tells us how to receive it, with an open contrite heart when his presence is felt with his word of truth. And then we receive more knowledge of what we have just received because of this miracle gift now in our lives. And then how we should live in this Spirit of our God and his Son.

Our salvation is based on God's purpose and desire for our lives, and not of our own desire to please God beyond what he already gave us and expects, by using our own will with an elaborate attached or supplemental version of a grace plus works mentality in order to gain or win the possession of the spirit of the Son, given by his Father into our heart. It would not be a gift if we have to be on some sort of probation, to see if we can earn the Spirit of God first before the gift of saving faith is given to truly believe in the Son.

You have made salvation way too complicated and by adding in a false backdrop of God's earlier dealings with mankind, of the Israelites, when they proved they would always fail without true salvation, by possessing the spirit of God within their own spirits. That grace given of God for a physical temporary sanctuary was not complete; and that was a type of learning in the wilderness experience, not just for them, for all mankind.

Only later was a person's salvation given with a much better grace for salvation, through the Son of God.

It is truly the grace given for our our salvation. 'not under the law.' via himself and the works of his Son for our decision to confess our sins in true repentance for the forgiveness of sin. This grace is a holy grace providing the gift of salvation and we should not be tampering with it or become restless that requires am urgent need to add our own will to make it 'seem' 'real' for us. It is already real enough in my life today, as I see/experience this ever increasing conformity to Christ all the time. And it's amazing to see when one keeps yielding their own will over to God's purpose and his will.

This is no transition or transitional period to gain salvation once the Spirit of God has rested within us. It is now His work not ours as we obey in deep reverence and worship for who He is in our life and what we know as his will. You add in your own learner's permit to learn how to live without the Spirit within you. Then you are not truly saved or converted by the wind of the Spirit?!

As if one is given or required to wear a learner's permit to drive/walk on holy ground to them reach a state of true salvation. If you mean growing in maturity in true salvation by the grace given of God for it, then I would agree.

I walk on this holy ground every day of my life. It is real enough for me without having to create extra spiritual tools that I image and add into my heart, and I then need to use in order in some way to truly please God.

Again, there is no transitional state of my salvation today, where I walk in some state of confusion or fog as the Israelites did in the actual desert lands to reach place of their own that they were promised to them by God, if and only if they obeyed him. Canaan was never intended as a true sanctuary or intended as a place for their permanent salvation! And they failed, miserably, to even honor God's desires for them, as any 'chosen' collection of tribes would fail, then and today. Most never received spiritual salvation in their heart/spirit at all. That was not God purpose for that time......

 

[Ritajanice]

We can be led of the Spirit in the wilderness walk..where we are still a mixture of flesh and Spirit.

In Deuteronomy 8:1-3, God gives us four reasons he took the children of Israel through the wilderness and he takes us for the same reasons. The wilderness is a picture of trials and temptations. The military calls it boot camp and it's their way to find the best way to get the job done.

 

[Lizbeth]

He does...we can be led of the Spirit. And those who are led by the Spirit are not under the law...but neither are they under grace...they are in TRANSITION...the wilderness walk. Of course God gives times of refreshing in the wilderness walk. And most will be satisfied with that level of walk.

But God isn't.

That's the thing about knowing the Lord. He gives us tools so that we do something with them. Grace is an empowerment to do His will.

It would be like waking up one day and seeing the gift of an excavator (earth mover) in our back yard. We thank God for that gift. And periodically we get the machine serviced...for free.. a free gift! But what are we DOING with it? Are we simply ready to accept the gift without the responsibility for having it?

So then the one who fears God is AFRAID of the gift....like WHAT DOES GOD WANT ME TO DO!!!!!! What is MY responsibility for having this gift?

A religious certainty prides itself on having received something from God. It becomes what is suited to OUR purpose...not God's. "Look how favoured I am"...born of incorruptible seed and all. But God has HIS OWN purpose...and very few are paying attention to that.

To whom much is given MORE is required!

The bible teaches us that our responsibility is to follow/obey the Lord, "investing" our gift of faith and GROWING in it.....according to scripture. And the results of that is the work of God, that HE may be glorified, not us.....He is the Potter, we are the clay.....leading us to be refined as silver is refined, through the trials and tribs, chastising us as sons that we may partake of His holiness, pruning even our fruitful branches in bringing our fruit to perfection. Allowing this work in our lives takes faith/trust in Him. It's called the proving of our faith (I believe in both senses of the word...as bread dough is proved before baking, as well as in our faith surviving the testing).......how we grow in faith is when we experience the Lord's faithfulness in the trials - since He is proving Himself to us as well - and that prepares and strengthens us for the next one that we might grow some more.

 

[Episkopos]

In Deuteronomy 8:1-3, God gives us four reasons he took the children of Israel through the wilderness and he takes us for the same reasons. The wilderness is a picture of trials and temptations. The military calls it boot camp and it's their way to find the best way to get the job done.

An excellent citation Rita!

But just keep in mind that it wouldn't have been necessary to train them like that if they had had the faith to enter into the Promised Land. So then our training is still to seek God by faith for entrance into the Promised Land...which is the higher walk in holiness.

 

[Ritajanice]

An excellent citation Rita!

But just keep in mind that it wouldn't have been necessary to train them like that if they had had the faith to enter into the Promised Land. So then our training is still to seek God by faith for entrance into the Promised Land...which is the higher walk in holiness.

Sorry Epi..I forgot to head it,a short commentary, I found online..i can’t take credit on someone else’s commentary,xx

Ok, thanks...I’m going to pray and ask for guidance..

 

[Episkopos]

You construction and one of your fundamental pillars of truth for your personal doctrine forces you to maintain a firm stance or grip of a different and exotic view of God's given grace for our salvation. There is no transitional 'wilderness' walk if one is truly converted by the Spirit of God. It is a true gift and His word tells us how to receive it, with an open contrite heart when his presence is felt with his word of truth. And then we receive more knowledge of what we have just received because of this miracle gift now in our lives. And then how we should live in this Spirit of our God and his Son.

And this sounds reasonable...until you realize that we are not trying to make sense of the Christian walk ourselves...it is according to God's purpose...not ours. God lays out His purpose which we might not like. But we also don't like getting sick or growing old. God has His own design...which NEVER lines up with our own ways or understanding.

So then we are called into a transitional training ground BECAUSE we lack the faith to enter into the Promised Land (the higher walk that Paul sought for)

Thanks to Rita for posting this verse...

"And you shalt remember all the way which the LORD your God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble you, and to prove you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep his commandments, or no." Deut. 8:2

How many fail miserably to take into account God's design...instead being happy with their own version of salvation.

Our salvation is based on God's purpose and desire for our lives, and not of our own desire to please God beyond what he already gave us and expects, by using our own will with an elaborate attached or supplemental version of a grace plus works mentality in order to gain or win the possession of the spirit of the Son, given by his Father into our heart. It would not be a gift if we have to be on some sort of probation, to see if we can earn the Spirit of God first before the gift of saving faith is given to truly believe in the Son.

The fear of the Lord asks...what am I responsible for with this free gift? Am I to be held to a higher standard? If so where is the grace to walk in a complete fulfillment of that holy standard?

You have made salvation way too complicated and by adding in a false backdrop of God's earlier dealings with mankind, of the Israelites, when they proved they would always fail without true salvation, by possessing the spirit of God within their own spirits. That grace given of God for a physical temporary sanctuary was not complete; and that was a type of learning in the wilderness experience, not just for them, for all mankind.

The complexity is from God. The Israelites had a natural walk...and we are called into a spiritual walk. First the natural...then the spiritual. But we BOTH have the gospel according to the calling. We are likewise called to enter into the Promised Land...which for us is Zion in the heavenly realm...to walk as Jesus walked, empowered by God's grace to do as He did, to overcome as He did. By works? NO! but by grace through faith.

Only later was a person's salvation given with a much better grace for salvation, through the Son of God.

It is truly the grace given for our our salvation. 'not under the law.' via himself and the works of his Son for our decision to confess our sins in true repentance for the forgiveness of sin. This grace is a holy grace providing the gift of salvation and we should not be tampering with it or become restless that requires am urgent need to add our own will to make it 'seem' 'real' for us. It is already real enough in my life today, as I see/experience this ever increasing conformity to Christ all the time. And it's amazing to see when one keeps yielding their own will over to God's purpose and his will.

Jesus TAKES AWAY the sins of the world...not just forgives them. Read Is. 61:1 and then Luke 4:18. The gospel is about the power that frees us from sin...not just forgive. God has ALWAYS been merciful towards the repentant ones.

This is no transition or transitional period to gain salvation once the Spirit of God has rested within us. It is now His work not ours as we obey in deep reverence and worship for who He is in our life and what we know as his will. You add in your own learner's permit to learn how to live without the Spirit within you. Then you are not truly saved or converted by the wind of the Spirit?!

Salvation is in 2 steps...the double edged sword...both in righteousness AND in holiness. The higher walk is in holiness...in the kingdom realm. Seek first the kingdom...after we are dead? NO...right now in order to bear a holy and eternal fruit. This glorifies God.

As if one is given or required to wear a learner's permit to drive/walk on holy ground to them reach a state of true salvation. If you mean growing in maturity in true salvation by the grace given of God for it, then I would agree.

There are 2 levels of maturity...as a man...and as a saint. If we work for a living and stand upright in the world...we grow as a man. But there is a higher calling into the fulness of Christ. To be a saint...a holy man of God.

I walk on this holy ground every day of my life. It is real enough for me without having to create extra spiritual tools that I image and add into my heart, and I then need to use in order in some way to truly please God.

I don't think you are ready to see the truly holy place. Otherwise you would understand what I'm talking about.

Again, there is no transitional state of my salvation today, where I walk in some state of confusion or fog as the Israelites did in the actual desert lands to reach place of their own that they were promised to them by God, if and only if they obeyed him. Canaan was never intended as a true sanctuary or intended as a place for their permanent salvation! And they failed, miserably, to even honor God's desires for them, as any 'chosen' collection of tribes would fail, then and today. Most never received spiritual salvation in their heart/spirit at all. That was not God purpose for that time......

We are EXACTLY the same as the Israelites in the wilderness. Almost no one has the faith to enter into the promises of God.

God doesn't hate the Israelites in favour of rich spoiled and entitled Gentiles. We are no better than them. And our calling is much higher than theirs was....in accordance with the miraculous grace we have received from the Lord.

 

[Lizbeth]

In Deuteronomy 8:1-3, God gives us four reasons he took the children of Israel through the wilderness and he takes us for the same reasons. The wilderness is a picture of trials and temptations. The military calls it boot camp and it's their way to find the best way to get the job done.

Deu 8:1-6

All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.

And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.

And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Thy raiment waxed not old upon thee, neither did thy foot swell, these forty years.

Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the LORD thy God chasteneth thee.

Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him

 

[APAK]

And this sounds reasonable...until you realize that we are not trying to make sense of the Christian walk ourselves...it is according to God's purpose...not ours. God lays out His purpose which we might not like. But we also don't like getting sick or growing old. God has His own design...which NEVER lines up with our own ways or understanding.

So then we are called into a transitional training ground BECAUSE we lack the faith to enter into the Promised Land (the higher walk that Paul sought for)

Thanks to Rita for posting this verse...

"And you shalt remember all the way which the LORD your God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble you, and to prove you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep his commandments, or no." Deut. 8:2

How many fail miserably to take into account God's design...instead being happy with their own version of salvation.


The fear of the Lord asks...what am I responsible for with this free gift? Am I to be held to a higher standard? If so where is the grace to walk in a complete fulfillment of that holy standard?


The complexity is from God. The Israelites had a natural walk...and we are called into a spiritual walk. First the natural...then the spiritual. But we BOTH have the gospel according to the calling. We are likewise called to enter into the Promised Land...which for us is Zion in the heavenly realm...to walk as Jesus walked, empowered by God's grace to do as He did, to overcome as He did. By works? NO! but by grace through faith.


Jesus TAKES AWAY the sins of the world...not just forgives them. Read Is. 61:1 and then Luke 4:18. The gospel is about the power that frees us from sin...not just forgive. God has ALWAYS been merciful towards the repentant ones.


Salvation is in 2 steps...the double edged sword...both in righteousness AND in holiness. The higher walk is in holiness...in the kingdom realm. Seek first the kingdom...after we are dead? NO...right now in order to bear a holy and eternal fruit. This glorifies God.


There are 2 levels of maturity...as a man...and as a saint. If we work for a living and stand upright in the world...we grow as a man. But there is a higher calling into the fulness of Christ. To be a saint...a holy man of God.


I don't think you are ready to see the truly holy place. Otherwise you would understand what I'm talking about.

We are EXACTLY the same as the Israelites in the wilderness. Almost no one has the faith to enter into the promises of God.

God doesn't hate the Israelites in favour of rich spoiled and entitled Gentiles. We are no better than them. And our calling is much higher than theirs was....in accordance with the miraculous grace we have received from the Lord.

Look Epi, why is your first paragraph so similar to what I just posted for you? And my point was, you are the one trying to make sense of 'your' walk in Christ. I have no problem with mine. Why add words for me that do not represent me at all?

And if you did not get my point the first time. You have made a false backdrop and comparison, using the Israelites in the wilderness as your, and therefore everyone else so-called first step of a 2-step process to salvation. This is completely wrong and forms a new gospel not found in scripture. I can never agree to it.

The Israelites never had any walk to salvation, whether natural, or even spiritual in nature. Theirs was of works and obedience under the Law eventually. The faith used for obedience was of their own, from their own will and energies that would never lead to salvation. And it was never designed to be that goal. It was a demonstration of the failure of man to know God using their own faith rather that being possessed by the faithfulness of God. Today we have this Godly faith!

There is no 'wilderness' walk of a the first of 2 steps process to salvation! And there is no such thing as transitional training for salvation. You made it all up yourself.

And you are saying in your version of salvation that we walk not under God's grace when we first receive the Spirit of God, only in a carnal natural way using our own faith and therefore not given the gift of faith during conversion. So when do we get this gift of faith that is evidently withheld according to you? And you will always say something like this as a response: We have to get it, go get it, or even somehow earn it, so then we can figure out our new 'higher' walk.

This entire scheme and your version of salvation is so confusing and untenable. It is clearly false. Good luck in trying to figure out your walk in/into (however you want to translate the Greek word) Christ.

 

[APAK]

Deu 8:1-6

All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.

And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.

And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Thy raiment waxed not old upon thee, neither did thy foot swell, these forty years.

Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the LORD thy God chasteneth thee.

Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him

Yes, to know what is in their corrupted hearts, by eventually being humbled by God and his words, and what their own faith and will can muster to please God. What can they really bring to the holy table, without the Spirit of God within their hearts, only disobedience, the wrath of God, hardened hearts, death and destruction.

 

[amadeus]

An excellent citation Rita!

But just keep in mind that it wouldn't have been necessary to train them like that if they had had the faith to enter into the Promised Land. So then our training is still to seek God by faith for entrance into the Promised Land...which is the higher walk in holiness.

Of all those saved from the bondage of Egypt, after 40 years in the wilderness,, how many were able/allowed to enter into the Promised Land?

Nu 14:22	Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;
Nu 14:23	Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:

Nu 14:30

Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, concerning which I sware to make you dwell therein, save Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun.

 

[Episkopos]

Look Epi, why is your first paragraph so similar to what I just posted for you? And my point was, you are the one trying to make sense of 'your' walk in Christ. I have no problem with mine. Why add words for me that do not represent me at all?

You are free to walk in whatever way you see fit.

And if you did not get my point the first time. You have made a false backdrop and comparison, using the Israelites in the wilderness as your, and therefore everyone else so-called first step of a 2-step process to salvation. This is completely wrong and forms a new gospel not found in scripture. I can never agree to it.

Not found in scripture you say?.... Unless you read the bible, that is....

"For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it." Heb. 4:2

Again, your ideas are not the same as what we read in the bible. It's so funny that people conjure up ideas...and when they prove to be false, the accusation is that I'm the one making things up.

The bible is written for our instruction. And that includes the book of Exodus. Have you seen the movie "The 10 Commandments"?

The Israelites never had any walk to salvation, whether natural, or even spiritual in nature. Theirs was of works and obedience under the Law eventually. The faith used for obedience was of their own, from their own will and energies that would never lead to salvation. And it was never designed to be that goal. It was a demonstration of the failure of man to know God using their own faith rather that being possessed by the faithfulness of God. Today we have this Godly faith!

You have divorced salvation away from the scriptures. There is a perfect parallel between the OT scriptures and the NT gospel. See how many times the NT quotes the OT as a fulfillment.

You need a better grounding in the scriptures before you criticize what I'm posting. Unless you just want to opinionate that is...

There is no 'wilderness' walk of a the first of 2 steps process to salvation! And there is no such thing as transitional training for salvation. You made it all up yourself.

I made it up by reading the bible and quoting it...and experiencing that very training. So I have multiple angles to see things from. If you eliminate the scriptural lessons and warnings...then you are on your own.

And you are saying in your version of salvation that we walk not under God's grace when we first receive the Spirit of God, only in a carnal natural way using our own faith and therefore not given the gift of faith during conversion.

I say that being born again is a SAMPLE of grace, because no one is so mature and selfless whereby they can remain there. Faith is lacking. So we enter into the training ground until we have the faith to fully surrender into the higher walk...being translated into the kingdom walk. (you do realize that this is in the bible...I don't always post every verse as it would become tedious...so you have to do the search...that is, if you want to progress in understanding)

So when do we get this gift of faith that is evidently withheld according to you? And you will always say something like this as a response: We have to get it, go get it, or even somehow earn it, so then we can figure out our new 'higher' walk.

God decides when and if we are ready to take on the responsibility of the higher walk in holiness. There is a great penalty for misusing grace...and not everyone is ready for that. God chooses...that's why these are called the chosen.

This entire scheme and your version of salvation is so confusing and untenable. It is clearly false. Good luck in trying to figure out your walk in/into (however you want to translate the Greek word) Christ.

God's ways are deep and penetrating...defying any kind of harmony with the carnal mind. One must adapt oneself to God and His ways to have any chance of being selected by God for the upward training of the saint.

 

[amadeus]

And this sounds reasonable...until you realize that we are not trying to make sense of the Christian walk ourselves...it is according to God's purpose...not ours. God lays out His purpose which we might not like. But we also don't like getting sick or growing old. God has His own design...which NEVER lines up with our own ways or understanding.

So then we are called into a transitional training ground BECAUSE we lack the faith to enter into the Promised Land (the higher walk that Paul sought for)

Thanks to Rita for posting this verse...

"And you shalt remember all the way which the LORD your God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble you, and to prove you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep his commandments, or no." Deut. 8:2

How many fail miserably to take into account God's design...instead being happy with their own version of salvation.


The fear of the Lord asks...what am I responsible for with this free gift? Am I to be held to a higher standard? If so where is the grace to walk in a complete fulfillment of that holy standard?


The complexity is from God. The Israelites had a natural walk...and we are called into a spiritual walk. First the natural...then the spiritual. But we BOTH have the gospel according to the calling. We are likewise called to enter into the Promised Land...which for us is Zion in the heavenly realm...to walk as Jesus walked, empowered by God's grace to do as He did, to overcome as He did. By works? NO! but by grace through faith.


Jesus TAKES AWAY the sins of the world...not just forgives them. Read Is. 61:1 and then Luke 4:18. The gospel is about the power that frees us from sin...not just forgive. God has ALWAYS been merciful towards the repentant ones.


Salvation is in 2 steps...the double edged sword...both in righteousness AND in holiness. The higher walk is in holiness...in the kingdom realm. Seek first the kingdom...after we are dead? NO...right now in order to bear a holy and eternal fruit. This glorifies God.


There are 2 levels of maturity...as a man...and as a saint. If we work for a living and stand upright in the world...we grow as a man. But there is a higher calling into the fulness of Christ. To be a saint...a holy man of God.


I don't think you are ready to see the truly holy place. Otherwise you would understand what I'm talking about.

We are EXACTLY the same as the Israelites in the wilderness. Almost no one has the faith to enter into the promises of God.

God doesn't hate the Israelites in favour of rich spoiled and entitled Gentiles. We are no better than them. And our calling is much higher than theirs was....in accordance with the miraculous grace we have received from the Lord.

Ac 10:34

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: