Calvinism

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Willie T

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BTW, this is what The Westminster Confession has to say about the depravity of man (Just in case anyone wondered.):
CHAPTER 6
Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and of the Punishment Thereof

1. Our first parents, being seduced by the subtlety and temptation of Satan, sinned, in eating the forbidden fruit. This their sin, God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to his own glory.

2. By this sin they fell from their original righteousness and communion with God, and so became dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the parts and faculties of soul and body.

3. They being the root of all mankind, the guilt of this sin was imputed; and the same death in sin, and corrupted nature, conveyed to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation.

4. From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual transgressions.

5. This corruption of nature, during this life, doth remain in those that are regenerated; and although it be, through Christ, pardoned, and mortified; yet both itself, and all the motions thereof, are truly and properly sin.

6. Every sin, both original and actual, being a transgression of the righteous law of God, and contrary thereunto, doth, in its own nature, bring guilt upon the sinner, whereby he is bound over to the wrath of God, and curse of the law, and so made subject to death, with all miseries spiritual, temporal, and eternal.

********
As for Calvin..... that's a bit longer, and you can look it up for yourself. It should be found in Book Two of The Institutes, Chapter Two, Section 4, if memory serves me well. (It could be anywhere from Sections 3 to 5... I could be off on the specificity.)
 
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CharismaticLady

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Since you are sinlessly perfect, why do you need such grace? You will remain sinlessly perfect while other Christians honestly address their present sins. It's good to be sinlessly perfect in this life, is it not?

I know you are mocking the power of the Spirit I teach, and can't understand, but it is what Jesus commanded when He said "Be perfect as My Father in heaven is perfect." But it is only through the Spirit's guidance and infilling that allows us to complete the steps of glorification that it is even remotely possible.

2 Peter 1:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (past sins, not present and future sins that the unsaved commit.)

But our will is involved in forgiving others their trespasses against us as we forgive others their trespasses against us.

Matthew 6:14-15:
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

cc: @Willie T
 
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CharismaticLady

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BTW, this is what the WCF has to say about the depravity of man (Just in case anyone wondered.):
CHAPTER 6
Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and of the Punishment Thereof

1. Our first parents, being seduced by the subtlety and temptation of Satan, sinned, in eating the forbidden fruit. This their sin, God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to his own glory.

2. By this sin they fell from their original righteousness and communion with God, and so became dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the parts and faculties of soul and body.

3. They being the root of all mankind, the guilt of this sin was imputed; and the same death in sin, and corrupted nature, conveyed to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation.

4. From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual transgressions.

5. This corruption of nature, during this life, doth remain in those that are regenerated; and although it be, through Christ, pardoned, and mortified; yet both itself, and all the motions thereof, are truly and properly sin.

6. Every sin, both original and actual, being a transgression of the righteous law of God, and contrary thereunto, doth, in its own nature, bring guilt upon the sinner, whereby he is bound over to the wrath of God, and curse of the law, and so made subject to death, with all miseries spiritual, temporal, and eternal.

********
As for Calvin..... that's a bit longer, and you can look it up for yourself. It should be found in Book Two, Chapter Two, Section 4, if memory serves me well. (It could be anywhere from Sections 3 to 5... I could be off on the specificity.)


YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(especially #5.)

Who is the WCF. I'm not a denominationalist. What denomination(s) does WCF rule?
 

CharismaticLady

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Basically, Presbyterian. (And they state it mildly, compared to the way Calvin wrote of it.)

Wow, do they even recognize that Jesus is God, and not the equivalent of a bull or a goat? How clueless can they get? And you say Calvin is worse???
 

Willie T

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Wow, do they even recognize that Jesus is God, and not the equivalent of a bull or a goat? How clueless can they get? And you say Calvin is worse???
Several Denominations are based on that "Westminster Confession of Faith." [WCF] (Just reading it turns my stomach.)

Yes, Calvin speaks like man is lower than Whale ______ , and that is on the bottom of the ocean.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Several Denominations are based on that "Westminster Confession of Faith." (Just reading it turns my stomach.)

I couldn't agree more. I have a friend that started out Pentecostal and though he hasn't left the teaching has been fellowshipping with Presbyterians for decades and is sounding like them. Now I know where he's gotten his weird theology.

Number 5, was clueless to the born again of the Spirit reality.
 
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Willie T

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One thing to remember in all of this is that virtually ALL Denominations really DO get their theories of Doctrine straight off the pages of the Bible. ALL OF THEM! It is a matter of the preconceived ideas one harbors when they read specific verses. Yes, the Doctrines we love, and even those we hate.
 
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Willie T

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Charismatic Lady said:
@Willie T
I'll be back later. I've got to get away from all this blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
I’ve come to believe that accrediting something to God that doesn’t come from Him is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit
Let's go simple here:

Calvin says man can do nothing good, at all, unless "elected" (whatever they think that means) Yet, Jesus, Himself, said that the Gentiles knew how to give their children good things. And He further said that the pagans love those who love them. You know we could probably find other places where He said unbelievers (the un-elected) do good things, yet Calvin declared there was not a drop of good in ANY man...… but that "the elected" became good at some point.
 
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Waiting on him

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Let's go simple here:

Calvin says man can do nothing good, at all, unless "elected" (whatever they think that means) Yet, Jesus, Himself, said that the Gentiles knew how to give their children good things. And He further said that the pagans love those who love them. You know we could probably find other places where He said unbelievers (the un-elected) do good things, yet Calvin declared there was not a drop of good in ANY man...… but that "the elected" became good at some point.
Do you believe you did anything pleasing to God prior to salvation
 

bbyrd009

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bbyrd009

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BTW, this is what The Westminster Confession has to say about the depravity of man (Just in case anyone wondered.):
CHAPTER 6
Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and of the Punishment Thereof

1. Our first parents, being seduced by the subtlety and temptation of Satan, sinned, in eating the forbidden fruit. This their sin, God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to his own glory.

2. By this sin they fell from their original righteousness and communion with God, and so became dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the parts and faculties of soul and body.

3. They being the root of all mankind, the guilt of this sin was imputed; and the same death in sin, and corrupted nature, conveyed to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation.

4. From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual transgressions.

5. This corruption of nature, during this life, doth remain in those that are regenerated; and although it be, through Christ, pardoned, and mortified; yet both itself, and all the motions thereof, are truly and properly sin.

6. Every sin, both original and actual, being a transgression of the righteous law of God, and contrary thereunto, doth, in its own nature, bring guilt upon the sinner, whereby he is bound over to the wrath of God, and curse of the law, and so made subject to death, with all miseries spiritual, temporal, and eternal.

********
As for Calvin..... that's a bit longer, and you can look it up for yourself. It should be found in Book Two of The Institutes, Chapter Two, Section 4, if memory serves me well. (It could be anywhere from Sections 3 to 5... I could be off on the specificity.)
what tripe!
 
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Willie T

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I thought you guys might get a kick out of this small part of Calvin's work:
"…... it will be beyond dispute, that free will does not enable any man to perform good works, unless he is assisted by grace; indeed, the special grace which the elect alone receive through regeneration. For I stay not to consider the extravagance of those who say that grace is offered equally and promiscuously to all. But it has not yet been shown whether man is entirely deprived of the power of well-doing, or whether he still possesses it in some, though in a very feeble and limited degree — a degree so feeble and limited, that it can do nothing of itself, but when assisted by grace, is able also to perform its part."
 
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CharismaticLady

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I am mocking your false beliefs about sin and righteousness. And instead of teaching you should be learning. Let me know when you are ready for Soteriology 101.

I knew you were, but that's okay - I really do like you, though I don't think you can say the same toward me. LOL

I've already been where you are and have advanced to what God, the Author, actually means, so I'm not going back to the dark ages - so no thanks.