Camels & Needles

[Robbie]

I think the point is found best when held in the context of what they guy initially asked and Jesus final response.

"Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?

“With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Only with God is the Way to eternal life possible... the Way is Jesus... Jesus is the Word... The Word is God... the Way is God...

 

[jacobtaylor]

I think the point is found best when held in the context of what they guy initially asked and Jesus final response.

"Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?

“With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Only with God is the Way to eternal life possible... the Way is Jesus... Jesus is the Word... The Word is God... the Way is God...

Robbie I hope you don't take this the wrong way but Jesus didn't speak those words to the rich man in Matthew and Mark these 2 say he went away. In Luke it could be taken as thou Jesus did. The point is Jesus said to him in all three he is lacking something. What did Jesus see he was lacking? I believe Jesus could see that he valued his wealth more than both following Jesus and being rewarded in heaven for giving up his wealth. All three account say he must give up his wealth before he can follow Jesus. Why? I think its because he placed them at the top of his priorities, he placed them before Jesus and rewards in heaven.

Now If as Jesus said “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Its pretty easy to see this man was not relying on God or Jesus, but with God all things are possible. Instead he was relying on his own strength “With men this is impossible", and Jesus knew this. His heart was not for God as Zacchaeus the tax collectors was. Zacchaeus was a rich man as well. The difference was Zacchaeus didn't let his wealth over ride his desire for Jesus.


Mark
Jesus said to him, “One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.”
[sup]22[/sup] But he was sad at this word, and went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
Matthew
[sup]21[/sup] Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
[sup]22[/sup] But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
Luke
[sup]22[/sup] So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
[sup]23[/sup] But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich.

Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler

[sup]17[/sup] Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?”
[sup]18[/sup] So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. [sup]19[/sup] You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’”[sup][c][/sup]
[sup]20[/sup] And he answered and said to Him, “Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth.”
[sup]21[/sup] Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.”
[sup]22[/sup] But he was sad at this word, and went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
With God All Things Are Possible

[sup]23[/sup] Then Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, “How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!” [sup]24[/sup] And the disciples were astonished at His words. But Jesus answered again and said to them, “Children, how hard it is for those who trust in riches to enter the kingdom of God! [sup]25[/sup] It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
[sup]26[/sup] And they were greatly astonished, saying among themselves, “Who then can be saved?”
[sup]27[/sup] But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
[sup]28[/sup] Then Peter began to say to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You.”
[sup]29[/sup] So Jesus answered and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel’s, [sup]30[/sup] who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time—houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions—and in the age to come, eternal life. [sup]31[/sup] But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”

 

[Anastacia]

That's right, Jacob. Good explaining.

 

[Robbie]

I've heard other people see it that way to but I see it different...

I see it as Jesus was trying to bring a revelation to him of his inability to do it himself...

Jesus started by telling him that if the guy wanted to do it he had to keep the commandments... the guy came back with saying he had kept them from his youth... haha... so Jesus loved him and took it to the next level telling him that if he wanted to do it himself he needed to go prefer everyone above himself and then follow Christ... the dude walked away because he was over it... so the disciples were all, "Who then can be saved" because the disciples knew that no one was going to live up to that... then Jesus said, "With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible"

To me that just sums up salvation...

That we can't save ourselves... we can only accept the free gift of salvation that is only made possible by God.

The law should bring us to that revelation in and of itself but if we still think we're good enough to obtain salvation and eternal life through our own merit we need to first live up to Christ and not only be perfect but also prefer every single person on this planet ahead of ourselves. haha... I'll stick with believing eternal life is only possible with God and give Him all the praises for His being the power... the Glory is all His...

 

[jacobtaylor]

I've heard other people see it that way to but I see it different...

I see it as Jesus was trying to bring a revelation to him of his inability to do it himself...

Jesus started by telling him that if the guy wanted to do it he had to keep the commandments... the guy came back with saying he had kept them from his youth... haha... so Jesus loved him and took it to the next level telling him that if he wanted to do it himself he needed to go prefer everyone above himself and then follow Christ... the dude walked away because he was over it... so the disciples were all, "Who then can be saved" because the disciples knew that no one was going to live up to that... then Jesus said, "With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible"

To me that just sums up salvation...

That we can't save ourselves... we can only accept the free gift of salvation that is only made possible by God.

The law should bring us to that revelation in and of itself but if we still think we're good enough to obtain salvation and eternal life through our own merit we need to first live up to Christ and not only be perfect but also prefer every single person on this planet ahead of ourselves. haha... I'll stick with believing eternal life is only possible with God and give Him all the praises for His being the power... the Glory is all His...

Robbie Jesus never said this, Robbie did,

telling him that if he wanted to do it himself he needed to go prefer everyone above himself and then follow Christ...

But you are right about one thing

To me that just sums up salvation...

Im just letting the less informed know, this is Robbie's opinion. And its completely OK for Robbie to interpret this in red
“One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.”
In to this
so Jesus loved him and took it to the next level telling him that if he wanted to do it himself he needed to go prefer everyone above himself and then follow Christ... the dude walked away because he was over it...

 

[Robbie]

This is why I believe that was the revelation Jesus was bringing to the guy...

To me selling everything I have and giving it to the poor and then following Jesus to the cross would basically be me preferring everyone else above myself... I believe this is exactly what Jesus did... He preferred everyone above Himself even paying the price for their sins... and I believe in order for me to do the good necessary for obtaining eternal life I would have to live up to Jesus which I never could... but instead of walking away because I know it's hopeless for me to try to live up to Jesus... I humble myself and say, "Thank you God for doing for me what I never could have done for myself"

But if someone wants to actually believe they can do enough good to earn eternal life I hope the best for them... but here's the deal... if you want to do so go ahead and keep every commandment (even in your heart) and then give up everything you own and then live up to what Christ did... I'm not going to say anyone can't... that's between them and God... but I know I can't... so I give God all the glory for making what wasn't possible for me... possible thanks to Jesus Christ being my righteousness... thanks to God for making the Way!!!

 

[Anastacia]

But if someone wants to actually believe they can do enough good to earn eternal life I hope the best for them... but here's the deal... if you want to do so go ahead and keep every commandment (even in your heart) and then give up everything you own and then live up to what Christ did... I'm not going to say anyone can't... that's between them and God... but I know I can't... so I give God all the glory for making what wasn't possible for me... possible thanks to Jesus Christ being my righteousness... thanks to God for making the Way!!!

But Jesus tells us what to do to have eternal life.

Im just letting the less informed know, this is Robbie's opinion. And its completely OK for Robbie to interpret this in red
“One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.”
In to this
so Jesus loved him and took it to the next level telling him that if he wanted to do it himself he needed to go prefer everyone above himself and then follow Christ... the dude walked away because he was over it...

lol

 

[aspen]

To me selling everything I have and giving it to the poor and then following Jesus to the cross would basically be me preferring everyone else above myself... I believe this is exactly what Jesus did... He preferred everyone above Himself even paying the price for their sins... and I believe in order for me to do the good necessary for obtaining eternal life I would have to live up to Jesus which I never could... but instead of walking away because I know it's hopeless for me to try to live up to Jesus... I humble myself and say, "Thank you God for doing for me what I never could have done for myself"

But if someone wants to actually believe they can do enough good to earn eternal life I hope the best for them... but here's the deal... if you want to do so go ahead and keep every commandment (even in your heart) and then give up everything you own and then live up to what Christ did... I'm not going to say anyone can't... that's between them and God... but I know I can't... so I give God all the glory for making what wasn't possible for me... possible thanks to Jesus Christ being my righteousness... thanks to God for making the Way!!!

I have a similar understanding. I believe Jesus understood how precious He was to the Father and it sustained Him through His life, ministry and death. He loved us because He was loved; it was a truly dependent relationship on the Father and the perfect example for us.

 

[Robbie]

Right on Aspen... thank God it wasn't up to me to do something good enough to obtain eternal life... and thanks to God for loving us so much that He did for us what we couldn't do for ourselves... the Kingdom, The Power, and The Glory are His!!!

 

[jacobtaylor]

Your simply making an excuses for not doing as Jesus told the rich man. Jesus plainly told him to give his wealth to the poor. Now you can believe Jesus was speaking in code and didn't really mean it, but I think other wise. . I don't believe Jesus would tell anyone to do something and not mean to do exactly as He said. His first myrical Mary told the servants to do exactly as He said.

 

[tomwebster]

Your simply making an excuses for not doing as Jesus told the rich man. Jesus plainly told him to give his wealth to the poor. Now you can believe Jesus was speaking in code and didn't really mean it, but I think other wise. . I don't believe Jesus would tell anyone to do something and not mean to do exactly as He said. His first myrical Mary told the servants to do exactly as He said.

So, jt, have you given all your riches to the poor and needy?

 

[Robbie]

If salvation is dependent on doing what Jesus told the rich man to do I don't know anyone who would be saved except for maybe homeless people who own nothing and even then they would also have had to have kept the law...

Jesus said to go and, "Sell everything you have" that means, "everything"

My personal experience is that the funniest thing about people who interpret that as what Jesus literally wants us to do are usually on the receiving end and they usually twist it from taking everything you own and selling it and giving it to the poor into taking everything you own and selling it and giving it to their church business... haha

As for me I just recognize that what isn't possible with me is possible with God...

All praises to Him!!!

 

[aspen]

Jesus saw where the heart of the rich man was - it is a call for all of us to give up our idols. On a side note, there is a principle I live by - when I am finished with a car or clothing or furniture or whatever - I give it away. I never sell it because I was given everything I had when my wife and I were starting out by generous friends in our community. It works out great because we always know someone who can use what has become disposable to us. I learned a good lesson from good people.

I got rid of my TV, but my computer? hmmm....

 

[Anastacia]

Because Jesus told the rich man to give all he had to the poor...that doesn't mean Jesus wants us to sell everything we have and give it away. That rich man put his riches before the Savior, the Savior who was standing in front of him. Jesus knows everyone's heart. It's hard for the rich to be saved because most wouldn't give everything up for the Lord and eternal life. We have to know that being reconciled to God is more important than anything.

For those who say we don't have to do anything.....what does it mean to you when Jesus says "If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love." John 15:10

Do you see that?---"if you obey my commands." It's even plural "commands." We will remain in Jesus' love if we obey his commands.

 

[Disciple]

I beleive all christians eventually have to give up their riches and serve God, the riches of this world blind you from hearing or seeing God.. The camel and the needle mystery to me is the depth of how crucial riches can affect ones walk with God or eligability to enter heaven, and it also shows how mericul loving and gracious God is in 'all things are possible through Christ'.

 

[jacobtaylor]

So, jt, have you given all your riches to the poor and needy?

I'm not rich I'm more like a poor fisherman. I have lived hand to mouth most of my life. Their was a span of about 10 years I made some fair money but 40,000 a year but thats hardly rich but then I did have money in the bank. Beside I got out of that type of work, the people I began with had very good christian morels the later ones I worked for not so much. In fact to preform my duties by their expectations, demanded I compromise being fair and honest. It was all about making a buck and being selective about people regardless of there ability to do the job. Thats not my thing.

I've been homeless several times owning nothing, I lost my family by the age of 12 separated from two younger sisters, today we are very enstranged, weeks and months of no communication soon turned into years. I can honestly say I have and still do help people to the point it effects me financially. I never miss an opportunity to talk with a homeless person or someone posing as one. I have given some money some back packs some shoes or boots. I also am very muti skilled I can fix most anything in your home or garage including your car or electronic equipment. I do this type of thing for many people I met with very limited income, I always do it many times for a fraction of regular repair service, sometimes for free, I never charge full service price and I do know what I'm doing.

To answer your question directly when my ex wife decided to go it alone, after we put her threw school and she become a legal secretary. I left her every single thing except my tools, those I sold and hit the road a homeless person. But I have always had a distinct advantage, you see I have a big brother, His name is Jesus. He has trained me threw my life to never fear any thing, I sugerst you try it sometime tom webster maybe you to could learn something about about walking in faith. Really walking in faith. I have never eaten out of a dumpster or pan handled for money. As I said above I have lots of skills, I always find some work to feed myself with some left over. I could go on and perhaps even write a book TW. but as you can see your preaching to the quire. My guess is most of you consider hard times as not being able to pay your time share on the condo in Hawaii. Or having to drive a 5 year old car. That is simply my suspicion. In fact I just lost my job on Dec 31 I'm collecting UE but I am not afraid nor do I have family to turn to, never have. But you know what If the Lord takes me out on the road again I know Im going to experience something very special again. I've been renting the same duplex for 12 years now. That is by far the longest I have ever lived in one place. But I'm Spiritually, mentally and physically prepared to give it all away again. I've done it before and I'll do it again.

So Tom Webster I'm eager to here your thumb nail testimony. Have you ever jumped a freight train?

By the way I forgot to mention I lost my 5 year old son when my x and I split up. After a year on the road, It took five years for me to get ful custody. Praise the Lord. That hert me more than anything I have ever been threw. Losing my son. You know what else I bstill pay the interest on the child support. That was 18 years ago I got him back. You see my x got pregnant after the split, took a leave from work and never returned, her and her new boyfriend went on welfare. I've been paying that bill for 23 years.

If salvation is dependent on doing what Jesus told the rich man to do I don't know anyone who would be saved except for maybe homeless people who own nothing and even then they would also have had to have kept the law...

Jesus said to go and, "Sell everything you have" that means, "everything"

My personal experience is that the funniest thing about people who interpret that as what Jesus literally wants us to do are usually on the receiving end and they usually twist it from taking everything you own and selling it and giving it to the poor into taking everything you own and selling it and giving it to their church business... haha

As for me I just recognize that what isn't possible with me is possible with God...

All praises to Him!!!

And Jesus would probably never rock your little world like that ether. He has promised to not allow us to be tested beyond what we can handle. Most people IMO would fall completely apart.

 

[aspen]

I've learned never to assume anything about complete strangers. Hardship is relative - one person's hangnail is another person's Job experience.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

'..I say unto you it is easier for a camel to go through the needle of an eye than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God..'
Questions or comments on this scripture?

Eye of the needle was the name of a gate into Jerusalem -
the camels had to have either all their loads unloaded or get thru on their knees.

B)

 

[Robbie]

So have you sold everything you own Jacob and given it to the poor? EVERYTHING?

And have you kept the Law?

And just so you know you shouldn't assume things about people... by the time I was 14 I had watched my mom lose two babies... I had spent a decade watching my Mom destroy herself with drugs and alcohol... I had lost my grandparents 15 minutes apart, had my moms boyfriend come to our house and shoot the place up and then hold the gun to my moms head and then leave and blow his own brains out after I begged for him not to shoot her... my house burned down 2 weeks before chirstmas... and after all was said and done after my mom promised me she quit doing heroin I walked in on her slamming heroin and her new boyfriend smoking crack which caused in me the reaction of kicking a hole in every wall I could as I left and moved out on my own when I was 14... those were just some key moments... obviouslly there was a shiz storn of other bullcrap going on but I wont bore you with the details...

Bottom line is just say something like, "What kind of experiences did others have growing up" instead of saying rude stuff like, "My guess is most of you consider hard times as not being able to pay your time share on the condo in Hawaii" I mean dude... do you have any idea what you sound like? and do you talk to people like this in person or just from behind keyboards? Just know that if you do act like this to people that if you ever get cracked by someone it probably has nothing to with you suffering for Jesus and everything to do with the way you treat people.

 

[jacobtaylor]

I've learned never to assume anything about complete strangers. Hardship is relative - one person's hangnail is another person's Job experience.

Are you calling me a lair? Are you presuming that nobody can be trusted on the net? If you are then that applies to everyone here. That being said I think your calling me a lair. <_<