Can a Person be Born Homosexual?

[bbyrd009]

Making a bold statement (another level) and not defending it becomes very brash!

well, as for defending that, i have plenty of….personal precedence, wadr
i mean i would have to build it out for an example, it would take a while;
pretty sure that believers are represented by Legion, and Esau,
so those are like a fat paragraph each, Adam and Eve is prolly you, in something like thinking and emotions maybe; Jesus is…ha well nevermind, not saying what Jesus is

 

[bbyrd009]

Y'know, with all the verses in the Bible about the total depravity of the human race ever since the Fall, I'm astonished anyone would ask the question about whether we're born with an inclination to sin.

Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me. (Psalm 51:5)

The doctrine of Depravity is the one Christian dogma that is empirically verifiable. - G.K. Chesterton.

So, once we've conceded innate human depravity, that brings up two questions:

Q1: Are individuals born inclined to particular sins? (Answer: Are heterosexual men innately inclined to lust for women?)

Q2: How can God justly hold individuals accountable for the moral choices made in this life when we are born sinful? When lust in the heart is equivalent to committing adultery and anger and hatred in the heart is equivalent to murder? And make no mistake about it, the Bible does teach human responsibility.

Yet Furthermore God is not our judge…!
yeh, weird huh

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

OS meaning "Original Sin?" Original Sin applies only to those who were not born God.

I don't agree that people are not born a sinner. They are born already under condemnation due to their mixed spiritual endowment. God cannot allow into the Kingdom of heaven people who have mixed spirits unless they are provided a covering from Christ through his atonement. That is doctrinal orthodoxy. Speculations in alternative scenarios are heretical.

There is no verse that says all men are born sinners or born with a sin nature or totally depraved. OS is an idea created by man therefore it comes with the problem that Christ would be born with sin, with a sin nature also,

in 1 John 1 and 2 John deals with a false teaching similar to OS. John dealt with the Gnostics and their idea that flesh is inherently evil. Hence they did not believe that Christ was God in the flesh for He would have been born with this evil taint upon Him and God would never have such evil upon Him. Yet in refuting this false teaching John did not bring up the issue as to how Mary or Christ could have been born avoiding this inherent evil. Reason being is that John did not need to provide a solution to a false teaching that is not found in the BIble. John dealt with this false teaching by calling those Gnostics "deceivers and anti-christs" and taught that a belief in Christ and His humanity and obeying His commandments is what is necessary to being saved.

The Gnostics' false teaching tried to taint all of mankind with this evil much like OS tries to taint all mankind with sin. Yet John, nor any other NT writer, never provided a solution to Christ being born with OS for again, no solution is necessary to a false idea that is not taught in the Bible. OS is a man made idea that comes with man-made problems hence the 'solutions' are also false man-made solutions. Nowhere in the Bible does it teach that Mary was sinless or teach an immaculate conception. Nowhere in the Bible does it teach OS is passed through the father and not the mother. These "solutions" were just pulled out of thin air. Again, the reason no one can cite a 'solution' to OS is that the BIble does not teach it therefore no solution is needed for a false idea not taught by the BIble.
In post #163 you cite 1 Jn 3:9 as a "solution" to OS and Christ being an exception to the rule. Yet how can 1 Jn 3:9 be a "solution" to the OS problem when OS is not even taught in 1 John chapter 3? Nor is it even taught at all in first, second or third John. It's not taught anywhere in the NT by John or anyone else so how can anyone cite a verse as being a "solution" to a problem when the problem does not even exist in the NT?

 

[Webers_Home]

.

Divine genetics? Jesus doesn't have freedom of the will?

Jesus had/has the very thing that I always wished for: a free will that's in
perfect harmony with God's free will. To me: that is the ultimate cat's meow.

Compare:

"For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to
will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not."
(Rom 7:18).
_

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Homosexuality,lesbianism,transgenderism ect are against the nature of the flesh. Man should not lay with man as a woman and vice versa. Another man does not have a vagina nor does another woman have a penis, and the same sexes do not have hormones nor reproductive ability to birth another human. Females carry ONLY eggs ,no sperm to fertilize, and men do not carry eggs to be fertilized. Eggs also are not stored in the anus nor any other orifice.

Nature itself teaches this!

God however says it is an abomination and one of the things he HATES!

NO ONE IS BORN AN ABOMINATION!

He created either male or female. He has NOT caused a man to be born in a woman's body or vice versa.

IT IS SIN,JUST AS ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS SIN. Sin shall NOT enter into heaven.

 There is zero excuse and should be zero acceptance of this among the righteous of God, period.

Abuse of infants and children causes abnormalities of the psychies of the young by confusion in the spirit & mind.
Shame on ABNORMAL adults who cause this abnormality in infants and children !

If you don't want to believe what God says about these abominations and call yourself a believer SHAME ON YOU.

The altar of repentance is where you need to go and stay till you hear from God and receive forgiveness.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

well, as for defending that, i have plenty of….personal precedence, wadr
i mean i would have to build it out for an example, it would take a while;
pretty sure that believers are represented by Legion, and Esau,
so those are like a fat paragraph each, Adam and Eve is prolly you, in something like thinking and emotions maybe; Jesus is…ha well nevermind, not saying what Jesus is

Wish you would spell better and write coherent sentences. But I await your paragraphs. Hope they make better sense than your normal answers.

 

[bbyrd009]

Wish you would spell better and write coherent sentences. But I await your paragraphs. Hope they make better sense than your normal answers.

Ha--prolly not!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ha--prolly not!

Then this shall be my last post to you. Bye-bye.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Science” is perverting what the Holy Bible Teaches on this subject, to justify the SINFUL lives of those who CHOOSE to be homosexual, which is clearly against what God says.

You are spot on by saying it is impossible for homosexuals to be born that way.

We are born in sin. Sin has been past down from Adam, (the original sin) which corrupts our nature. So we have this proclivity for sin, a sinful nature, to rebel against God, against His Law and go our own way.
My 2 year old granddaughter at does just that. She is in the terrible two stage. She knows nothing about sex though. Newborns know nothing about anything. They come out crying, probably cold and look at Mommy. It is that miracle moment for us. God created male and female. You are either one or the other, that is simple science, observing a biological sex organ. The doctor or whoever delivered the baby exclaims _ by simple observation, " It's a boy" or "It's a girl".
Now at that moment, the desires of a baby are few: warmth, comfort, personal contact with Mommy, food. He or she has few desires. They desire/need to feel security. If they they are hungry they cry, if they are wet, they cry, if they are uncomfortable, in pain or sick, they cry. They have no sexual desires beyond intil they start exploring the world. They see something and want to touch it, examine it and usually put it in their mouths.
Good Science is not incorrect. Distorted assumptions snd theories are not good science. A gene that cause you to behave or desire? Sounds like a stretch of someone's imagination desperately bent on finding evidence to disprove the Bible in some way. The motive behind the Hubble Telescope was to find evidence that disproves the existence of God. Science becomes maligned and corrupted when it goes off on a tangent like this.
Behavior begins on day one. A newborn baby learns how to get what they want. It doesn't take long. They discover quickly that when the cry, theu get your attention. So they learn to put on this phony crying routine to get their way. They manipulate, disobey and practice sinning before they can talk. Then they just continue to express themselves sinfully - not all the time of course. They are little angels too
It's a selfish endeavor about getting what they want.
Anger is a response of someone who feels deprived, not getting what they want, instant gratification. And that is what we see in infants who are little sinners who grow up to be big sinners. But at birth, desires are born, behavior is also born. We learn quickly what we need and want. They desire for Mommy, comfort, the mother's breast and these may be the only inborn desires and needs. Then as they grow they want more. As far as I know, there is no sexual desire at least until hormones kick in at puberty. And until someone tells them or they see photos or videos, they have no knowledge or understanding of sex. They know they are different when they see a naked baby of the opposite sex, and they knowbthenopposite sex behaves differently too, but that's it. God made us different, with differeng abilities. Males are stroñger, women are more emotional. He gave us different purposes, roles to play - too lengthy to go into. We are certainly different in many ways. Our desires, needs, values and behavior is different. Desires, values and behavior develop over time. But most of us can agree that the desire for sex comes after puberty or even years later.
Finally, I would like to add, that medical science will tell you tha it is impossible to change a person's sex. Even with hormones and operations, the person's sex is written in the genetic code and functions down to the cellular level. So on the outside superficial changes and behavior or hormones injected are seen, but this is not ever a total transformation. THE PERSON IS STILL THE SEX THEY WERE BORN AND ANYTHING OTHER THAN THAT IS JUST A CHARADE. Homosexuality is like a performance in a play where you act out a part, put on a custom and pretend you are someone else.
The Bible clearly says all sins_ from birth on_ are by choice. Your first act of sex was someone's choice, if not consensual. The result is a feeling, a rush that is very enjoyable, something you want more of. And so that is when your sexual desire grows and IF it happens to be with the same sex, and it turns into a habitual thing, that is when one becomes a homosexual or at least a bi-sexual. They become confused at this time as to what their purpose in life is.
God's purpose is very clear. He made male and female to procreate and did not give us any options to choose from other than being a eunich.

 

[Dropship]

Can a Person be Born Homosexual?

Tricky question, some women are born into men's bodies and vice-versa, so are they male or female?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Tricky question, some women are born into men's bodies and vice-versa, so are they male or female?

Females have two of the same kind of sex chromosome (XX), and are called the homogametic sex. Males have two different kinds of sex chromosomes (XY), and are called the heterogametic sex.

 

[-Phil]

Not only are people born with homosexual orientation, people are born with opposite, both, and even neither genitalia.
Denial is really only ever of your unconditional Self.

 

[marksman]

The problem with that language is, it makes homosexuality an "innocent crime," so to speak. It's true that we are born with a kind of selfishness in which we revolt against divine control and guidance. This doesn't mean we were created to be rebels--only that we were created to be able to make our own decisions.

We were born with rebellious tendencies , but we were not born gay. Certainly, choosing to be gay is the product of a contagion. The more gays are able to tempt others, the more others *choose* to be gay. The more their propaganda heralds them as "normal" and "rights advocates," the more it spreads

I think I understand your point, but "being born gay" is not something we seek to have atonement for. We're simply not born gay!

I hasten to say that should we choose to become gay, and repent later, we are certainly eligible to benefit from Christ's atonement. We can be forgiven, when we choose to follow Christ and repent of our old ways.

On the other hand, more to your point, we're born with a Sin Nature, and we do get atonement for that. Obviously, what I'm saying is that being born Gay and being born with a Sin Nature are not in the same category, since being born in sin does not mean one can be born gay.

As I said, at best we are born with a possible inclination towards being gay--perhaps inheriting a corrupt sin nature from a parent that chose to become gay? I do believe there is a spiritual inheritance as well as a biological inheritance. But that's another subject.

Having an inborn weakness towards homosexual influences is not being born gay. It indicates that we are weak towards the temptation, but are not that gay person.

Another example might be someone who is born with a high sex drive. He inherits this from physical genes, but the fallen spiritual nature also being inherited from flawed parents may determine the lack of balance in terms of sexual control. This could lead to fornication or to homosexuality.

At any rate, being born with these traits does not mean one is born to be a fornicator or a homosexual--it just means they are born with a weakness they have to fight, if they are to be and act a Christian. God certainly understands how much duress someone is under, and may apply mercy as He wills.

I do believe what you're trying to say is that we were born "sinners." And I would agree with that. But I think we're talking about how God intended us to be born, even as sinners. So yes, some of this is a semantics problem. Take care.

I really believe that there are a lot of people born gay. What I don't believe is that people are born homosexual.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I really believe that there are a lot of people born gay. What I don't believe is that people are born homosexual.

God created human beings to develop and grow from childhood to adulthood. We aren't born "gay"; rather, we go through developmental stages and "gayness" is one of those stages. 97% of humanity grows out of that stage, while the rest are stuck there for various psychological reasons.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I really believe that there are a lot of people born gay. What I don't believe is that people are born homosexual.

This will be confusing for a lot of people, since being Gay is synonymous, for most, with being a Homosexual. As I said, we are all born in Sin. The Sin Nature we are born with has similar but different tendencies, based on the spiritual nature we have inherited from our family before us.

I believe that untreated lusts in our family past are visited, spiritually, upon the children born to that family. It is up to each generation to deal with the Sin Nature they have inherited from their family, and to overcome it.

The idea is not to obliterate the tendencies we are born with, to essentially excise the Sin Nature from ourselves. Rather, the idea is to fight against what is obviously against the good nature God created us with. We were not born to be Gay--rather, we were born to overcome our Gay Tendencies. We were not born to have Sinful Temptations--but now that we are, our job is to win out over those temptations.

I think the Gay Rights movement has deliberately made use of this ambiguity over words to justify homosexual behavior--not just having Gay Tendencies. They want to believe and state that if we are "born Gay," then we have no choice to "be Gay." We need to be clear that God did not give us birth so that we helplessly engage in homosexual sex or behaviors.

By "homosexual behavior" I'm not talking about men loving to talk primarily with men, or women loving to talk primarily with women. I'm not talking about men loving to sew or raise flower beds, nor about women wanting to fight in combat or become car mechanics. There is absolutely nothing wrong with these behaviors. That may exhibit behavior indicating men have a lot of feminine hormones, or women have a lot of male hormones, but the behaviors themselves are not "Gay!"

Even thoughts about Gay Sex is not Gay behavior, since thoughts are merely temptations prompted by our Sin Nature and by corrupt society. We simply dismiss the thoughts as temptations to sin, and do not follow through to engage in the behavior.

Some men and women will have stronger homosexual urges than others. But it is our job to overcome. We are stuck with our Sin Nature until we obtain a resurrection to glory.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Not only are people born with homosexual orientation, people are born with opposite, both, and even neither genitalia.
Denial is really only ever of your unconditional Self.

I'm not sure if this post was meant for me, but if it was;

1) a few people are born with physical defects you describe but all people are born male (XY) or female (XX) and defective physical conditions some people are born with are not a choice they made for themselves whereas homosexuality is a choice, not a condition one is born with.

2) no one is born a sinner, the idea of original sin is unbiblical.

3) no one is born a homosexual no more than than one is born a liar, thief, a rapist or murderer. Murder, thievery, homoseuxality, etc are not conditions one is born with but are behavors people choose to engage in therefore can be held accountable for those choices.

If people are innately born homosexuals then people must also be innately born murderes, rapist, pedophiles, thieves, etc. And if homosexuality therefore must be "accepted" since it is how people are innately born, then ALL SINS OF ALL KINDS must also be accepted and not condemned. But such an idea not only makes a mockery of the Bible and Christianity, it makes a mockery of God, it makes God out to be unjust, unloving, unrighteous, cruel and sadistic in condemning men for how men are innately born against their will.

 

[-Phil]

I'm not sure if this post was meant for me, but if it was;

Perhaps it only seems so because of a discordant belief held, felt as suffering, which you could and very much long to be without. Often one without suffering is like a road sign to what is possible.

1) a few people are born with physical defects you describe but all people are born male (XY) or female (XX) and defective physical conditions some people are born with are not a choice they made for themselves whereas homosexuality is a choice, not a condition one is born with.

Would “XY” equate to male and “XX” equate to female, without you equating?
Does it seem that equating is happening outside yourself?

Could it be so simple, as that there is choice is an assumption overlooked and therein the ignorance & misunderstanding is projected onto “others”?

When, in honesty - does or did ye choose to be heterosexually oriented, and or without “defects” as ye claims?
What is - choice - most literally?

2) no one is born a sinner, the idea of original sin is unbiblical.

Ideas are… ideas.
Biblical is another.
Unbiblical so too.

3) no one is born a homosexual no more than than one is born a liar, thief, a rapist or murderer. Murder, thievery, homoseuxality, etc are not conditions one is born with but are behavors people choose to engage in therefore can be held accountable for those choices.

Held accountable, by what or who?
How are you sure you’re not assuming there is choice, and therein that these conditions are anything other than your own beliefs?
What if reality is simply, unconditional?

If people are innately born homosexuals then people must also be innately born murderes, rapist, pedophiles, thieves, etc.

Has it been noticed people is a thought, and thoughts arise and are not per se ‘born’, as born is also a thought?
Has ye yet questioned the belief that ye were born?

And if homosexuality therefore must be "accepted" since it is how people are innately born, then ALL SINS OF ALL KINDS must also be accepted and not condemned.

Is what is ever in need of acceptance?
Perhaps denial of what is can be let go, in exchange for sanity.
Point to the sins ye speaks of, then point to the source of the sins; if ye has two good ears.

But such an idea not only makes a mockery of the Bible and Christianity, it makes a mockery of God, it makes God out to be unjust, unloving, unrighteous, cruel and sadistic in condemning men for how men are innately born against their will.

It shakes the foundation of a house of cards.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Perhaps it only seems so because of a discordant belief held, felt as suffering, which you could and very much long to be without. Often one without suffering is like a road sign to what is possible.


Would “XY” equate to male and “XX” equate to female, without you equating?
Does it seem that equating is happening outside yourself?

Could it be so simple, as that there is choice is an assumption overlooked and therein the ignorance & misunderstanding is projected onto “others”?

When, in honesty - does or did ye choose to be heterosexually oriented, and or without “defects” as ye claims?
What is - choice - most literally?


Ideas are… ideas.
Biblical is another.
Unbiblical so too.


Held accountable, by what or who?
How are you sure you’re not assuming there is choice, and therein that these conditions are anything other than your own beliefs?
What if reality is simply, unconditional?


Has it been noticed people is a thought, and thoughts arise and are not per se ‘born’, as born is also a thought?
Has ye yet questioned the belief that ye were born?


Is what is ever in need of acceptance?
Perhaps denial of what is can be let go, in exchange for sanity.
Point to the sins ye speaks of, then point to the source of the sins; if ye has two good ears.


It shakes the foundation of a house of cards.

In other words, you have no concern about the truth that the Bible teaches nor have any concern about scientific facts and truth.....people are just to have to go along with your opinion and nothing more than your opinion or else those people will get called names as "homophobe" though there is no such thing. Male or female is no more a choice a person makes than people can choose for themselves what 2 plus 2 equals, or choose for themselves which way is north and south. You rather fiction and insanity rule the day rather than fact and truth. Isa 5:20

 

[-Phil]

In other words, you have no concern about the truth that the Bible teaches nor have any concern about scientific facts and truth.....people are just to have to go along with your opinion and nothing more than your opinion or else those people will get called names as "homophobe" though there is no such thing. Male or female is no more a choice a person makes than people can choose for themselves what 2 plus 2 equals, or choose for themselves which way is north and south. You rather fiction and insanity rule the day rather than fact and truth. Isa 5:20

No.

 

[Rightglory]

Understanding our human condition is difficult. We are fallen, sinful creatures who tend to lean towards any sin. It is very difficult to live struggling against our fallenness. All of Christianity, is an attempt to live a Christ-like life. So, to say we have no proclivity to anything or even to somethings and not others would be problematic.
Homosexuality is part of our fallen human nature. Historically, even going back to early cultures outside of Christianity, it was prescribed by culture, by norms. When all walls are broken down it becomes easier to become a homosexual.
A comparison might be viable here, though possibly a poor one, is how the left today, to assuage their consciences, and follow a victimhood, equity philosophy allow people to steal from stores under certain limits, like $900.
Many will read this as condoning theft. You have a right to take from another. It might become a cultural thing if permitted to continue.
And dont't tell me you never stole anything!
Homosexuality is a constructed social, legal outlook and the left would like to make it a norm, rather than outside of norm, such as another issue, abortion.
Christianity has its hands full to combat these pressures (sins) and not doing very well, especially when Popes and denominations feel compelled to bend to cultural philosophies instead of scripture. As Christians we should be leading culture, not following it.
homosexuality is a choice within a fallen nature. that is on a continuum.