Can Priests Forgive Sin?

[BarneyFife]

It applies to any Disciple, Pastor or Priest because first the person repents or asks Jesus for forgiveness, then we on earth are simply acknowing what has happened. where is spell check?

After reviewing, I'm afraid I'm not at all sure we are on the same page here.

.

 

[Mink57]

I am not following your "by extension, their successors" argument. Jesus intended this power to be assignable by the Apostles? How do we know this? You need to develop this argument a little more robustly.

Check out Acts Chapter 6. To paraphrase, the Apostles realized the need for assistants. They (the 12) gathered the community of disciples together and told them to select 7 from among them. They chose Stephen, Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicholas of Antioch. The seven men were presented to the Apostles, and Acts 6:6 says the Apostles "...prayed and laid hands on them."

Acts 6:8 says, "Now Stephen, filled with grace and power, was working great wonders and signs among the people." Stephen was obviously not one of the 12. But once they 'laid hands on him and prayed', he was granted the 'power' to act in the same capacity as the 12.

In Acts 8, Philip had gone to Samaria. The crowds there saw what Philip had been doing, such as curing people, just like Stephen did. Hence by the Apostles prayers and laying of hands, they assigned their power to others.

 

[RedFan]

Check out Acts Chapter 6. To paraphrase, the Apostles realized the need for assistants. They (the 12) gathered the community of disciples together and told them to select 7 from among them. They chose Stephen, Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicholas of Antioch. The seven men were presented to the Apostles, and Acts 6:6 says the Apostles "...prayed and laid hands on them."

Acts 6:8 says, "Now Stephen, filled with grace and power, was working great wonders and signs among the people." Stephen was obviously not one of the 12. But once they 'laid hands on him and prayed', he was granted the 'power' to act in the same capacity as the 12.

In Acts 8, Philip had gone to Samaria. The crowds there saw what Philip had been doing, such as curing people, just like Stephen did. Hence by the Apostles prayers and laying of hands, they assigned their power to others.

Oh, I totally get that the apostles assigned their powers to others. My question was whether Jesus intended this to be the case.

 

[Ritajanice]

Can priests forgive sins..?

What does Gods word say about priests forgiving sins?

I can’t find anywhere in scripture that says....” priests “ can forgive sins.

If it’s there , then please post Gods word...that says priests can forgive sins.

If it’s not there , then it’s a load of nonsense , isn’t it?

If it is there, that priests can forgive sins...then my apologies.

 

[Mink57]

Oh, I totally get that the apostles assigned their powers to others. My question was whether Jesus intended this to be the case.

Jesus bestowed upon all of the Apostles the authority to "bind" and "loose." The authority to bind and loose wasn't only applicable to sin.

 

[RedFan]

Jesus bestowed upon all of the Apostles the authority to "bind" and "loose." The authority to bind and loose wasn't only applicable to sin.

No doubt. But whatever the limits of that authority, what was Jesus's view of its being passed on by the Apostles to their successors? Did He even have one?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

They were taught by the Apostles.

And God's Word teaches us that false teachers and false teachings shall be prevalent in the end times!

If you need to see the scripture references about this again, let me know

 

[Taken]

Let's examine John 20:19-23 a little closer then, since you seem to NOT understand it at all...

On the evening of that first day of the week,j when the doors were locked, where the disciples* were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
When he had said this, he showed them His hands and his side.* The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent Me, so I send you.”
And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.
Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

Focus on the bold printed items. Jesus said, "As the Father has sent Me, so I send you." So, how did the Father send Jesus? With ALL Godly authority, including the authority to forgive sins! After all, He is God, yes?

Then, Jesus breathed on them (the Apostles). Only twice in ALL Scripture, does God "breathe" on man. Once in Genesis when He created Adam, and once here. Period! So, this must be a very poignant moment, yes? Something really important is taking place.

After Jesus did this, He tells them that whose sins they forgive are forgiven, and whose sins they retain (dont' forgive) are retained. Jesus clealy gives His Godly authority to forgive sins to the Apostles, and by extension, their successors. Authority is given not taken. The Apostles gave this same authority to their successors, who have done likewise now for about 2000 years.

Eph 2:
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Either this is a MAJOR ERROR, or Trespass AND Sins are two different things.

OT, Hebrews, Tribes of Israel were (Divided from Gentiles)

Gen 10:
[5] By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

And such Hebrews were Given a Law from God, through Moses, that they AGREED to Obey.

Ex 19:
[8] And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

Their LAWS…were Statues, Commands, Laws and Precepts….and Curse Law….covering the vast acceptable and unacceptable Behaviors Between, MAN and God, MAN and MAN, and MAN and Animals….AND the favorable or unfavorable Consequences.

Many of “THEIR” Law VIOLATIONS were Trespasses and many of THEIR” Law VIOLATIONS were Sins.

In the DAY Jesus was ON EARTH, He selected Tribal men to FOLLOW Him and Learn from Him.
Guess WHAT LAW they were “UNDER” while following and learning From Jesus?
When Jesus spoke to “THEM” of THE LAW, He was speaking OF THEIR MOSAIC RELIGIOUS LAWS, of which they would have been very familiar.

Jesus’ own selection of Disciples, He Taught, He thereafter SENT THEM OUT TO TEACH…
??? WHO ???

The Tribes of ISRAEL, particularly IN Synagog’s, which should notify you, THEY ALSO were Under Mosaic Law, and familiar with Mosaic Law since that is precisely what was taught the Tribes for 4,000 years.

Matt 10:
[5] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Look what the TRIBESMEN were themselves Learning…

Pray Like this:

[9] After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
[10] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
[11] Give us this day our daily bread.
[12] And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
[13] And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.


Then He expounds on “DEBTS” which ARE unsettled TRESPASSES between Men…

[14] For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

[15] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Men have the power and authority to Forgive men of Trespasses Against them.

If you think you have SINNED against a man, and Only God can forgive SIN, and you Ask God to Forgive your sin against a man….How exactly does that Settle YOUR action toward a man you have Harmed ?

Sin is Against God.
Only God forgives sin.
Men Trespass Against men.
Men CAN forgive Trespasses.

Remember the Jews wanted to KILL Jesus for FORGIVING men their Sins?

Again, because ONLY God forgives Sin.
Gentiles not under the Law DO not SIN against each other.

Are you Under Mosaic Law?

 

[Taken]

Let's examine John 20:19-23 a little closer then, since you seem to NOT understand it at all...

John 20:
[19] Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
[20] And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
[21] Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
[23] Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
[24] But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

Jesus spoke to His Disciples….ALL UNDER MOSAIC LAW….and sent THEM out to PREACH the Gospel of Jesus Christ…TO:
Men UNDER MOSAIC LAW.

Jesus breathed “ON” them giving them the Power of the Holy Spirit “ON” them.

Are YOU or were YOU Ever UNDER Mosaic Law?

Did you not Learn Jesus teaching them that AFTER He returned to Heaven they would Receive the Holy Spirit “IN” them?

Do you KNOW when a man, ANY man is BELIEVING…the Holy Spirit is “WITH / ON” him?

Do you KNOW when a man, ANY man is BELIEVING and CONFESSING his TRUE Heartful Belief, is when the SPIRIT OF GOD Baptizes that man WITH Gods Holy Spirit…
By, Through, Of the Holy Spirit of God….
ENTERING “IN” that man?

There is a Huge difference between “ON” and “IN”.

The Holy Spirit “ON” a man can Leave a man.
The Holy Spirit “IN” a man WILL NEVER LEAVE that man.

Once the Jewish Disciples were dying off…FOR Centuries Jews Under Mosaic Law have NOT been broadly taught in their Synagogs the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
The Jews don’t teach Christ Jesus their Messiah.
The Gentiles were not given the task to teach the Jews Christ Jesus the Messiah.

It was Saul (the son of a female Jew) / Paul (the son of a male Gentile Roman citizen) TASKED with TEACHING; the Gospel of Jesus Christ, to the Jews, Gentiles and Kings In his day.

Saul/Paul was a Jewish Pharisee, expertly trained in the Laws of the Jews….and the same Saul/Paul expertly taught in the WAYS of Christ the Lord Jesus, BY the Spirit of God, FOR 3 Years, (the same time-frame as Jesus’ 12 Disciples were taught).

Twelve Disciples with the Holy Spirit “ON” them and later the Apostles with the Holy Spirit “IN” them; were sent out to Teach Jews BEYOND their knowledge of Mosaic Law.

Paul was sent out to Teach Jews, BEYOND their knowledge of Mosaic Law….AND Gentiles OF the God of the Jews AND Beyond, OF the Lord Jesus the Christ Messiah….and the SAME to Gentile Kings.

Every man WHO IS CONVERTED, his trespasses he forgives is forgiven IN Heaven.
And every trespass he does not forgive is Not forgiven IN Heaven.

 

[Taken]

The Apostles had successors. It's all over Scripture and history. The Apostles' successors clearly had the same authority that the Apostles had.

Yes, the Apostles, were sent to PREACH to the Jews…and the Apostles themselves had disciples, (and Scribes) and Appointed some of their own disciples to do different TASKS…

It certainly APPEARS some of Jesus’ chosen Apostles had Gentile disciples, and certainly may have Appointed them as bishops over churches being established with large gathering of Gentiles attending.

WHY? When the Apostles were told NOT to go the WAY of the Gentiles?

Were Apostles Gentile Bishops going to Jewish Synagogues to Preach…LIKE JESUS DID?

Did Jesus APPOINT any Gentiles as His Apostles to go among the Gentiles and Teach them?

Yes, Saul the Jew/ Paul the Gentile, of mixed parentage.

 

[Augustin56]

I am not following your "by extension, their successors" argument. Jesus intended this power to be assignable by the Apostles? How do we know this? You need to develop this argument a little more robustly.

Fair enough.

I would start with the question, "Did Jesus train 12 Apostles during His earthly ministry and intend that to be the end if it? Or did He train 12 Apostles with the intent for it to be an ongoing ministry within the Church He created going forward?" I would argue the latter. The former doesn't make much sense unless Jesus was coming right back for the second coming as soon as the Last Apostle died, and that didn't happen.

Well, let's think about this.. Jesus reveals to us, for example in Matthew 18:15-18, that: “If your brother offends against you, go tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you’ve gained your brother. If he doesn’t hear you, take one or two with you, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. If he will not even hear them, tell it to the—” What? “The Church, and the one who fails to hear the Church is to be as a heathen and a publican. For whatever you—” and by the way, that, in Greek, is plural; “whatever you,” plural, that is, the Church—”whatever [the Church] binds on earth is bound in heaven, and whatever [the Church] looses on earth is loosed in heaven.” There we have Jesus giving us—and I would argue—perennial instructions. In other words, Jesus doesn’t say here: “Now you can only do this until the death of the last apostle. After that, nope, it’s going to be Bible alone. You have to go to the New Testament and argue about it, and if you can’t agree, start your own separate church!” Right? No, Jesus gives us perennial instructions here.

Now, once you get there, what do we know about the Church? Well, the Church is described for us as hierarchical, right? In Ephesians 4:11, the scripture says “The Holy Spirit has placed in the Church Apostles, prophets, pastors, evangelists, and teachers.” So look, that Church that Jesus says you’re supposed to go to—and that Church will give you the definitive word, whether we’re talking about faith, morals, discipline, Jesus gives carte blanche authority here—he describes that Church for us, does Saint Paul, as hierarchical with particular gifts, and one of them being the Apostle.

Well, in Acts 1:20, we find an interesting text. Remember, Judas died. He committed suicide. And so when Peter is exercising the "keys of the kingdom" (Matt 16:19) to establish the Church—of course the Holy Spirit working through him—it’s interesting that he quotes a couple of Bible verses here: from Psalm 69 and Psalm 109 here in Acts 1:18-20, but especially verse 20, he says concerning Judas that his seat—remember, he was numbered with the apostles, the Scripture says, so yes, he was fully an Apostle—but he says in verse 20 “Let another man take his office.”

Now this becomes really important, because the Greek word there for “office” is episkope. Episkope means bishopric. So now, when we’re specifically talking about the apostle in succession, you’ve got a replacement here for Judas that office, in succession, is called a bishopric. Well guess what? We have bishops in the Church, because 20, 25 years later, Paul writes about the office of bishop in 1 Timothy 3:1. And interestingly, in Ephesians 4:11, he doesn’t mention bishop, he only mentions apostle, prophet, pastor, evangelist, and teacher. Why didn’t he mention bishop? When he talks about bishop in 1 Timothy 3:1, why wouldn’t he say bishop here? Well, because the bishop takes the place of the Apostle, or succeeds the Apostle.

So the Apostle has a unique role inasmuch as the Apostle in the first century had to be an eyewitness of Jesus. That’s something that the Apostle cannot communicate down through the centuries. So there’s a unique role and dignity given to the Apostles. But the successors of the Apostles—that’s the key—are called bishops. And this is why, down through the centuries, the Catholic Church has had bishops who are, in fact, successors of the Apostles. And a little tidbit of interesting information: every priest who is ordained a priest in the Catholic Church is ordained by a bishop, and that bishop can trace his Apostolic Succession all the way back to one of the Apostles. The Church has kept meticulous records for two thousand years. Is that awesome or what? That is awesome. So, all this is all rooted in Sacred Scripture, correctly interpreted.

 

[Augustin56]

Can priests forgive sins..?

What does Gods word say about priests forgiving sins?

I can’t find anywhere in scripture that says....” priests “ can forgive sins.

If it’s there , then please post Gods word...that says priests can forgive sins.

If it’s not there , then it’s a load of nonsense , isn’t it?

If it is there, that priests can forgive sins...then my apologies.

Keep in mind that the Bible wasn't originally written in English by 21st century writers. The writers wrote in Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew. Their culture was significantly different than ours. Looking for the word "priest" won't help you find the truth.

That aside, you have to read Scripture in the context of the whole, in the context of Oral Tradition (see 2 Thes 2:15), and in the context of the living teaching authority of Christ's Church. Without these, you end up with as many interpretations (almost) as you have people trying to personally interpret Scripture. BTW, St. Peter warns against personal ilnterpretation of Scripture. See 2 Peter 1:20-21.

A review of John 20:19-23 will clearly show you where Jesus delegated His Godly authority to forgive sins to His Church.

On the evening of that first day of the week, when the doors were locked, where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

When He had said this, He showed them his hands and his side. The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.

[Jesus] said to them again,l “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent Me, so I send you.”

And when He had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.

Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

Let's focus on the bold-printed portions first. "As the Father has sent Me, so I send you." Well, how did the Father send Jesus? With ALL heavenly and Godly authority, including the authority to forgive sins! And THIS is how Jesus is likewise sending the Apostles in the upper room to where He was appearing!

Then, Jesus breathed on them. Only two times in all Scripture, New and Old Testament, does God breathe on man! Once in Genesis, when He breathed life into Adam, and once here. Period! So, it must be a very important situation, yes?

Finally, He tells the Apostles that whose sins you forgive are forgiven them and whose sins you retain are retained. He is delegating His Godly authority to the first hierarchy of His Church, the Apostles.

The Apostles had successors, the bishops, whom the Apostles gave this authority. The bishops, in turn, gave that authority to the presbyters (priests). If you want me to teach about Apostolic Authority, please let me know. I posted something recently on that... (post #191 of this thread?)

 

[Ritajanice]

Keep in mind that the Bible wasn't originally written in English by 21st century writers. The writers wrote in Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew. Their culture was significantly different than ours. Looking for the word "priest" won't help you find the truth.

That aside, you have to read Scripture in the context of the whole, in the context of Oral Tradition (see 2 Thes 2:15), and in the context of the living teaching authority of Christ's Church. Without these, you end up with as many interpretations (almost) as you have people trying to personally interpret Scripture. BTW, St. Peter warns against personal ilnterpretation of Scripture. See 2 Peter 1:20-21.

A review of John 20:19-23 will clearly show you where Jesus delegated His Godly authority to forgive sins to His Church.

On the evening of that first day of the week, when the doors were locked, where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

When He had said this, He showed them his hands and his side. The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.

[Jesus] said to them again,l “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent Me, so I send you.”

And when He had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.

Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

Let's focus on the bold-printed portions first. "As the Father has sent Me, so I send you." Well, how did the Father send Jesus? With ALL heavenly and Godly authority, including the authority to forgive sins! And THIS is how Jesus is likewise sending the Apostles in the upper room to where He was appearing!

Then, Jesus breathed on them. Only two times in all Scripture, New and Old Testament, does God breathe on man! Once in Genesis, when He breathed life into Adam, and once here. Period! So, it must be a very important situation, yes?

Finally, He tells the Apostles that whose sins you forgive are forgiven them and whose sins you retain are retained. He is delegating His Godly authority to the first hierarchy of His Church, the Apostles.

The Apostles had successors, the bishops, whom the Apostles gave this authority. The bishops, in turn, gave that authority to the presbyters (priests). If you want me to teach about Apostolic Authority, please let me know. I posted something recently on that...

Very interesting read...I enjoyed reading that....thank you @Augustin56

 

[Illuminator]

I am not following your "by extension, their successors" argument. Jesus intended this power to be assignable by the Apostles? How do we know this? You need to develop this argument a little more robustly.

Apostolic Succession: More Biblical Arguments

Several inter-related arguments for apostolic succession expanding upon the obvious fact that early Christian offices were somewhat fluid.

www.patheos.com

 

[BreadOfLife]

Uh huh, according to your religion maybe. Enjoy!

That's actually referring to replacing Judas... wanna try again?

Acts 1:20
“‘Let another take his office.’
The Greek work used here for “office” is “Episkopay” (Bishopric).

This isn’t about “replacing” Judas’s Bishopric.
It’s about the successive nature of the office of Bishop - not matter how much YOU reject it.

 

[Behold]

It’s about the successive nature of the office of Bishop - not matter how much YOU reject it.

Non "cult of mary" denominations also appoint a Bishop as the head of their Local Church.

Most of them dont use the term "Bishop".. They use the Term "Pastor" or "Minister" or even "Father"..You've heard of that one also, and im not talking about the POPE.

If you take this same understanding out of the Church walls, then the Evangelist is one more term, that is designating a ministry "Head".


Some of the non "cult of Mary" denominations... do also use the term "Bishop."

 

[Augustin56]

Non "cult of mary" denominations also appoint a Bishop as the head of their Local Church.

Most of them dont use the term "Bishop".. They use the Term "Pastor" or "Minister" or even "Father"..You've heard of that one also, and im not talking about the POPE.

If you take this same understanding out of the Church walls, then the Evangelist is one more term, that is designating a ministry "Head".


Some of the non "cult of Mary" denominations... do also use the term "Bishop."

Only those with Apostolic Succession, and the authority contained therein, can ordain bishops. (Catholics and Orthodox) While Protestants may go through the motions and believe they do so, nothing happens. Similar to if a rogue bishop in the Catholic Church were to go through an ordination ceremony trying to ordain a woman as priest. Even if he gets all the words right, nothing would happen. Why? Because the proper "material" for the priesthood is a male human being. Similarly, without Apostolic Succession, there is no authority to ordain anyone.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Non "cult of mary" denominations also appoint a Bishop as the head of their Local Church.

Most of them dont use the term "Bishop".. They use the Term "Pastor" or "Minister" or even "Father"..You've heard of that one also, and im not talking about the POPE.

If you take this same understanding out of the Church walls, then the Evangelist is one more term, that is designating a ministry "Head".


Some of the non "cult of Mary" denominations... do also use the term "Bishop."

"Bishop" is a Biblical term pertaining to an office that is directly-descended from the Apostles.
Without that succession, there is NO such thing as a non-Catholic, Non-Orthodox Bishop.