Can Priests Forgive Sin?

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Taken

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Can Priests Forgive Sin?

God appointed and anointed Christ Jesus His High Priest, and yes He can forgive Sin, and He can anoint men whose sins are forgiven and such men are restored and quickened.

Men appoint and anoint men that may or may not know the truth, believe the truth, preach the truth, and were not given the authority to forgive Sin.
 

Taken

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Hey, BBJ! John 20:19-23 shows Jesus giving His Godly authority to the Apostles to forgive sins. Clear as day. In fact, it was such an important issue that Jesus (God) "breathed" on them and told them they were receiving the Holy Spirit. Only twice in all Scripture does God breathe on man. Once in Genesis when He created Adam, and once in John, when He gave the Apostles His authority to forgive sins.

The Apostles gave their authority to their successors, the bishops and priests, who have done likewise for 2000 years now. Authority is given not taken.

The Apostles were all of a Tribe of Israel. Their religious LAW WAS the OT. If you are familiar with Mosaic LAW, Hebrews, Tribes of Israel routinely Forgave each other FOR…
Trespasses per THEIR Law;
AND
Sins per THEIR Law.

Yet they ALSO, knew per their Law, THAT SIN AGAINST God, was ONLY forgiven BY God!

Moving along to Knowledge revealed, Introducing GENTILES to the Knowledge of the Lord God Almighty….

According to Mosaic Law? No.

A Gentiles SIN IS: Rejection of belief IN the Lord God Almighty and His Son; Christ, Lord, Lamb, High Priest, Savior, Quickening Spirit, Power, Wisdom, Jesus.

Sin of a Jew (Tribe of Israel), of a Gentile…
IS ONLY FORGIVEN by, through, of the Lord God Almighty….

If you recall, JEWS wanted to KILL Jesus Because HE FORGAVE SINS of men….even they saying….

Mark 2:
[7] Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Luke 5:
[21] And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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Good quotes from Scripture!


Yes, great quotes!


John 20:19-23 shows Jesus giving His Godly authority to the Apostles to forgive sins.


Well then you'd better pray to the Apostles so you can get your sins forgiven then.

I'll speaking directly to the Father as Jesus instructed in 1 John 1:9, John 16:23, and John 16:26,27

So you do you... and I'll do Jesus and in the end we'll see who ends up where!
 

Augustin56

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Yes, great quotes!





Well then you'd better pray to the Apostles so you can get your sins forgiven then.

I'll speaking directly to the Father as Jesus instructed in 1 John 1:9, John 16:23, and John 16:26,27

So you do you... and I'll do Jesus and in the end we'll see who ends up where!
The Apostles had successors. It's all over Scripture and history. The Apostles' successors clearly had the same authority that the Apostles had. Bishops (episcopoi) have the care of multiple congregations and appoint, ordain, and discipline priests and deacons. They sometimes appear to be called “evangelists” in the New Testament. Examples of first-century bishops include Timothy and Titus (1 Tim. 5:19–22; 2 Tim. 4:5; Titus 1:5).

Priests (presbuteroi) are also known as “presbyters” or “elders.” In fact, the English term “priest” is simply a contraction of the Greek word presbuteros. They have the responsibility of teaching, governing, and providing the sacraments in a given congregation (1 Tim. 5:17; Jas. 5:14–15).

Deacons (diakonoi) are the assistants of the bishops and are responsible for teaching and administering certain Church tasks, such as the distribution of food (Acts 6:1–6).

In the apostolic age, the terms for these offices were still somewhat fluid. Sometimes a term would be used in a technical sense as the title for an office, sometimes not. This nontechnical use of the terms even exists today, as when the term “minister” is used in many churches (both Protestant and Catholic) to refer to either ordained ministers (as in “My minister visited him”) or nonordained individuals. (In a Protestant church one might hear “He is a worship minister,” while in a Catholic church one might hear “He is an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion.”)

Thus, in the apostolic age Paul sometimes described himself as a diakonos (“servant” or “minister”; cf. 2 Cor. 3:6, 6:4, 11:23; Eph. 3:7), even though he held an office much higher than that of a deacon, that of apostle.

Similarly, on one occasion Peter described himself as a “fellow elder” (1 Pet. 5:1), even though he, being an apostle, also had a much higher office than that of an ordinary elder.

The term for bishop, episcopos (“overseer”), was also fluid in meaning. Sometimes it designated the overseer of an individual congregation (the priest), sometimes the person who was the overseer of all the congregations in a city or area (the bishop or evangelist), and sometimes simply the highest-ranking clergyman in the local church—who could be an apostle, if one were staying there at the time.

Although the terms “bishop,” “priest,” and “deacon” were somewhat fluid in the apostolic age, by the beginning of the second century they had achieved the fixed form in which they are used today to designate the three offices whose functions are clearly distinct in the New Testament.

As the following quotations illustrate, the early Church Fathers recognized all three offices and regarded them as essential to the Church’s structure. Especially significant are the letters of Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, who traveled from his home city to Rome, where he was executed around A.D. 110. On the way he wrote letters to the churches he passed. Each of these churches possessed the same threefold ministry. Without this threefold ministry, Ignatius said, a group cannot be called a church.

Here are examples of what early Christian writers had to say on the subject of bishops, priests, and deacons:

Ignatius of Antioch
“Now, therefore, it has been my privilege to see you in the person of your God-inspired bishop, Damas; and in the persons of your worthy presbyters, Bassus and Apollonius; and my fellow-servant, the deacon, Zotion. What a delight is his company! For he is subject to the bishop as to the grace of God, and to the presbytery as to the law of Jesus Christ” (Letter to the Magnesians 2 [A.D. 110]).

“Take care to do all things in harmony with God, with the bishop presiding in the place of God, and with the presbyters in the place of the council of the apostles, and with the deacons, who are most dear to me, entrusted with the business of Jesus Christ, who was with the Father from the beginning and is at last made manifest” (ibid., 6:1).

“Take care, therefore, to be confirmed in the decrees of the Lord and of the apostles, in order that in everything you do, you may prosper in body and in soul, in faith and in love, in Son and in Father and in Spirit, in beginning and in end, together with your most reverend bishop; and with that fittingly woven spiritual crown, the presbytery; and with the deacons, men of God” (ibid., 13:1–2).

“It is necessary, therefore—and such is your practice that you do nothing without the bishop, and that you be subject also to the presbytery, as to the apostles of Jesus Christ our hope, in whom we shall be found, if we live in him. It is necessary also that the deacons, the dispensers of the mysteries [sacraments] of Jesus Christ, be in every way pleasing to all men” (Letter to the Trallians 2:1–3 [A.D. 110]).

“In like manner let everyone respect the deacons as they would respect Jesus Christ, and just as they respect the bishop as a type of the Father, and the presbyters as the council of God and college of the apostles. Without these, it cannot be called a church” (ibid., 3:1–2).

“He that is within the sanctuary is pure; but he that is outside the sanctuary is not pure. In other words, anyone who acts without the bishop and the presbytery and the deacons does not have a clear conscience” (ibid., 7:2).

“I cried out while I was in your midst, I spoke with a loud voice, the voice of God: ‘Give heed to the bishop and the presbytery and the deacons.’ Some suspect me of saying this because I had previous knowledge of the division certain persons had caused; but he for whom I am in chains is my witness that I had no knowledge of this from any man. It was the Spirit who kept preaching these words, ‘Do nothing without the bishop, keep your body as the temple of God, love unity, flee from divisions, be imitators of Jesus Christ, as he was imitator of the Father’” (Letter to the Philadelphians 7:1–2 [A.D. 110]).

Clement of Alexandria
“A multitude of other pieces of advice to particular persons is written in the holy books: some for presbyters, some for bishops and deacons; and others for widows, of whom we shall have opportunity to speak elsewhere” (The Instructor of Children 3:12:97:2 [A.D. 191]).

“Even here in the Church the gradations of bishops, presbyters, and deacons happen to be imitations, in my opinion, of the angelic glory and of that arrangement which, the scriptures say, awaits those who have followed in the footsteps of the apostles and who have lived in complete righteousness according to the gospel” (Miscellanies 6:13:107:2 [A.D. 208]).
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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Similarly, on one occasion Peter described himself as a “fellow elder” (1 Pet. 5:1), even though he, being an apostle, also had a much higher office than that of an ordinary elder.

That's funny... he did not preside over the Counsel at Jerusalem in Acts 15... James did so we know Peter wasn't "the pope" or the grand poo bah of the lodge.


The Apostles had successors. It's all over Scripture and history. The Apostles' successors clearly had the same authority that the Apostles had.

They LOST all authority and became disqualified from ministry when they started teaching false doctrine having become false teachers that God's Word warns us about.... in the end we'll see how things work out for those that follow the false teachers.

Matthew 24:4,5
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in My Name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

*Many includes those claiming "I am anointed" that are deceiving many (false teachers)


1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

("depart from the faith" is not referring to sinners in the world who never came to faith in the first place)

1 Timothy 6:3-5 (see Luke 11:23 and 2 Peter 3:2)
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness (holiness); (Doctrine of Christ, aka Doctrine of the Apostles)
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof comes envy, strife, railings, evil thoughts… Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)
(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who
separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

Acts 20:27-30
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
 
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Mink57

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That's funny... he did not preside over the Counsel at Jerusalem in Acts 15... James did so we know Peter wasn't "the pope" or the grand poo bah of the lodge.




They LOST all authority and became disqualified from ministry when they started teaching false doctrine having become false teachers that God's Word warns us about.... in the end we'll see how things work out for those that follow the false teachers.

Whoa...WHAT? The Apostles LOST authority? Where the heck is THAT in the Bible????????????????????????????????
Matthew 24:4,5
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in My Name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

*Many includes those claiming "I am anointed" that are deceiving many (false teachers)


1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

("depart from the faith" is not referring to sinners in the world who never came to faith in the first place)

1 Timothy 6:3-5 (see Luke 11:23 and 2 Peter 3:2)
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness (holiness); (Doctrine of Christ, aka Doctrine of the Apostles)
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof comes envy, strife, railings, evil thoughts… Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)
(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who
separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

Acts 20:27-30
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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Whoa...WHAT? The Apostles LOST authority? Where the heck is THAT in the Bible

I'm speaking of the successors you are referring to that took the place of the Apostles after they were gone... once anybody starts teaching false doctrine that disqualifies them from minister since they are no longer walking with the Lord and instead have started walking with the devil.

You said....

The Apostles had successors. It's all over Scripture and history. The Apostles' successors clearly had the same authority that the Apostles had.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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So HOW do you know whether the Apostles forgave you of your sins or not?

What if they don't like you and decided to not forgive you and you go to hell?

And HOW do you contact them about this? By email, or text? Maybe certified letter or do you do like transcendental medication or ouija boards or something? Do you have like a bat phone?

Seriously though, just curious how you folks get in touch with the Apostles since they have passed from their world.
 
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BreadOfLife

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OK, so how do we get in touch with His inner circle?

By email, text? Western Union? Fax?

Sounds pretty important that we get in touch with these folks so we can get our sins forgiven, right?

Is there like a Rolodex that let's us know whos who in the inner circle zoo? View attachment 39459
If you read Acts 1:20, you would know that the office of Bishop (Apostle) is a successive one. Buy, you obviously don't spend a lot of time actually reading Scripture . . .
 
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BreadOfLife

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Retread of an ongoing dispute. The world is not likely to take your word for it, BOL, however much I might value your input. :)

Jesus didn't argue with the Pharisees when they charged Him with blasphemy for forgiving sins as a man—He proved Himself to be God.

The scholarly definition of blasphemy is assuming the prerogative of God. I realize this is not generally so in Catholic scholarship, but nevertheless...

On this issue, there is, alas, a great gulf fixed between us. :(

But don't forget: I pride myself in being possibly the only avowed Protestant on CyB upon whose post a -like- was ever bestowed by the illustrious BreadOfLife.

And in the words of the great Fred Astaire, as he serenaded the lovely Ginger Rogers:
'

:musicn2: They can't take that away from me, :musicn2:
:musicn2: No-o-o, They can't take that awa-a-ay fro-o-om me-e-e. :musicn2:
Funny how non-Catholics can believe that God merely spoke anf the entire UNIVERSE leapt into existence - but they don't think He had the ability to give His Apostles the power to forgive sins or turn bread and wine into His Body and Blood.

NOT much faith there . . .

John 20:21-23
Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If YOU forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if YOU do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Not ONE of you has been able tpo explain this passage . . .
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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If you read Acts 1:20, you would know that the office of Bishop (Apostle) is a successive one. Buy, you obviously don't spend a lot of time actually reading Scripture . . .


Uh huh, according to your religion maybe. Enjoy!

That's actually referring to replacing Judas... wanna try again?
 
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Mink57

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That's funny... he did not preside over the Counsel at Jerusalem in Acts 15... James did so we know Peter wasn't "the pope" or the grand poo bah of the lodge.
Actually, Peter DID preside over the Counsel at Jerusalem, because Peter presided over the WHOLE church. It was through Peter's vision that the Gentiles be welcomed into the church. While in Jerusalem, it was Peter who first stood up to address the Counsel regarding whether or not the Gentiles had to be circumcised. While James was over the church at Jerusalem, Peter was over James.
They LOST all authority and became disqualified from ministry when they started teaching false doctrine having become false teachers that God's Word warns us about.... in the end we'll see how things work out for those that follow the false teachers.

Matthew 24:4,5
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in My Name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

*Many includes those claiming "I am anointed" that are deceiving many (false teachers)


1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

("depart from the faith" is not referring to sinners in the world who never came to faith in the first place)

1 Timothy 6:3-5 (see Luke 11:23 and 2 Peter 3:2)
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness (holiness); (Doctrine of Christ, aka Doctrine of the Apostles)
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof comes envy, strife, railings, evil thoughts… Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)
(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who
separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

Acts 20:27-30
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
 
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Augustin56

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That's funny... he did not preside over the Counsel at Jerusalem in Acts 15... James did so we know Peter wasn't "the pope" or the grand poo bah of the lodge.




They LOST all authority and became disqualified from ministry when they started teaching false doctrine having become false teachers that God's Word warns us about.... in the end we'll see how things work out for those that follow the false teachers.

Matthew 24:4,5
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in My Name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

*Many includes those claiming "I am anointed" that are deceiving many (false teachers)


1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

("depart from the faith" is not referring to sinners in the world who never came to faith in the first place)

1 Timothy 6:3-5 (see Luke 11:23 and 2 Peter 3:2)
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness (holiness); (Doctrine of Christ, aka Doctrine of the Apostles)
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof comes envy, strife, railings, evil thoughts… Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)
(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who
separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

Acts 20:27-30
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
When did the successors of the Apostles start teaching false doctrine? Never. The Catholic Church received the fullness of Divine Revelation from Jesus Christ and has never changed one doctrine that she receieved. Not once. Not ever.

What I suspect what you're claiming to be "false doctrine" is doctrine that doesn't match up to your personal interpretation of a translation of the Scriptures that the Catholic Church set the canon for in the late 4th century. In other words, your own, personally made up, man-made doctrine. Read 2 Peter 1:20-21, where St. Peter warns against personal interpretation of Scripture, probably for this very reason. You appoint yourself your own Pope and imagine you have the authority that Jesus gave the position of Pope, being able to define doctrine and dogma. Let's see how that's worked out... Tens of thousands of man-made, doctrinally contradicting and disagreeing denominations have arisen from this very approach. That cannot possibly be the fullness of truth that Christ gave mankind, because the truth does not contradict itself.
 
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Augustin56

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The Apostles were all of a Tribe of Israel. Their religious LAW WAS the OT. If you are familiar with Mosaic LAW, Hebrews, Tribes of Israel routinely Forgave each other FOR…
Trespasses per THEIR Law;
AND
Sins per THEIR Law.

Yet they ALSO, knew per their Law, THAT SIN AGAINST God, was ONLY forgiven BY God!

Moving along to Knowledge revealed, Introducing GENTILES to the Knowledge of the Lord God Almighty….

According to Mosaic Law? No.

A Gentiles SIN IS: Rejection of belief IN the Lord God Almighty and His Son; Christ, Lord, Lamb, High Priest, Savior, Quickening Spirit, Power, Wisdom, Jesus.

Sin of a Jew (Tribe of Israel), of a Gentile…
IS ONLY FORGIVEN by, through, of the Lord God Almighty….

If you recall, JEWS wanted to KILL Jesus Because HE FORGAVE SINS of men….even they saying….

Mark 2:
[7] Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Luke 5:
[21] And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
Let's examine John 20:19-23 a little closer then, since you seem to NOT understand it at all...

On the evening of that first day of the week,j when the doors were locked, where the disciples* were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
When he had said this, he showed them His hands and his side.* The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent Me, so I send you.
And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.
Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

Focus on the bold printed items. Jesus said, "As the Father has sent Me, so I send you." So, how did the Father send Jesus? With ALL Godly authority, including the authority to forgive sins! After all, He is God, yes?

Then, Jesus breathed on them (the Apostles). Only twice in ALL Scripture, does God "breathe" on man. Once in Genesis when He created Adam, and once here. Period! So, this must be a very poignant moment, yes? Something really important is taking place.

After Jesus did this, He tells them that whose sins they forgive are forgiven, and whose sins they retain (dont' forgive) are retained. Jesus clealy gives His Godly authority to forgive sins to the Apostles, and by extension, their successors. Authority is given not taken. The Apostles gave this same authority to their successors, who have done likewise now for about 2000 years.
 

RedFan

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Jesus clealy gives His Godly authority to forgive sins to the Apostles, and by extension, their successors. Authority is given not taken. The Apostles gave this same authority to their successors, who have done likewise now for about 2000 years.
I am not following your "by extension, their successors" argument. Jesus intended this power to be assignable by the Apostles? How do we know this? You need to develop this argument a little more robustly.
 

The Learner

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Would you consider that an authoritative commission of the Catholic "Ministry Of Reconciliation" doctrine or, at least, part of one? Just curious.

.
It applies to any Disciple, Pastor or Priest because first the person repents or asks Jesus for forgiveness, then we on earth are simply acknowing what has happened. where is spell check?
 

The Learner

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Good quotes from Scripture!

So, let's see. What would be a false teacher? Would it be someone teaching something different than was always taught from the beginning? Would that qualify? Would someone coming along 16 centuries later, using their own personal interpretation to mis-interpret what was always taught because they thought they knew better, qualify as a false teacher? I would certainly think so.

Christ established a (one) Church. Historically, this was the ONLY Church until 1054 A.D., when the Orthodox splintered off. Protestantism didn't begin until the 16th century, and began introducing man-made doctrines like Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide, neither of which had ever been taught for the first 16 centuries by Christ or His Church (or even the Orthodox). In fact, they continually disagreed with one another to the point that Protestantism has continually splintered (and is splintering) into thousands of man-made, disagreeing, contradicting denominations, all based on someone's personal interpretation of Scripture. See 2 Peter 1:20-21, where St. Peter warns against personal interpretation of Scripture with regard to creating doctrine. See 1 Tim 3:15, where St. Paul refers to the Church as the "pillar and foundation of truth." Not the individual personally iterpreting his/her own translation of the Bible, but the Church!
Please inform me about Copt Christians, I read a reference in passing about them in Defending ... by Holden. Thanks Brother, Friend Daniel
 

The Learner

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That's funny... he did not preside over the Counsel at Jerusalem in Acts 15... James did so we know Peter wasn't "the pope" or the grand poo bah of the lodge.




They LOST all authority and became disqualified from ministry when they started teaching false doctrine having become false teachers that God's Word warns us about.... in the end we'll see how things work out for those that follow the false teachers.

Matthew 24:4,5
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in My Name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

*Many includes those claiming "I am anointed" that are deceiving many (false teachers)


1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

("depart from the faith" is not referring to sinners in the world who never came to faith in the first place)

1 Timothy 6:3-5 (see Luke 11:23 and 2 Peter 3:2)
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness (holiness); (Doctrine of Christ, aka Doctrine of the Apostles)
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof comes envy, strife, railings, evil thoughts… Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)
(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who
separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

Acts 20:27-30
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
6 Then the apostles and the elders gathered to study this problem. 7 After a long debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “My brothers, I am sure you remember what happened in the early days. God chose me from among you to tell the Good News to those who are not Jewish. It was from me that they heard the Good News and believed. 8 God knows everyone, even their thoughts, and he accepted these non-Jewish people. He showed this to us by giving them the Holy Spirit the same as he did to us. 9 To God, those people are not different from us. When they believed, God made their hearts pure. 10 So now, why are you putting a heavy burden[a] around the necks of the non-Jewish followers of Jesus? Are you trying to make God angry? We and our fathers were not able to carry that burden. 11 No, we believe that we and these people will be saved the same way—by the grace of the Lord Jesus.”

12 Then the whole group became quiet. They listened while Paul and Barnabas told about all the miraculous signs and wonders that God had done through them among the non-Jewish people. 13 When they finished speaking, James said, “My brothers, listen to me. 14 Simon Peter has told us how God showed his love for the non-Jewish people. For the first time, God accepted them and made them his people. 15 The words of the prophets agree with this too:
 

The Learner

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I'm speaking of the successors you are referring to that took the place of the Apostles after they were gone... once anybody starts teaching false doctrine that disqualifies them from minister since they are no longer walking with the Lord and instead have started walking with the devil.

You said....
They were taught by the Apostles.