Can there be obedience where there is a lack of trust?

[bbyrd009]

Old Testament to apply to me?
No.

if your house gets robbed, who do you call?

 

[Taken]

if your house gets robbed, who do you call?

Depends on who I want to tell.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

lol, ok

 

[amadeus]

To me Trusting God is a decision we make.
Once an individual can commit himself to Trusting God; Whatever Word of Scripture he hears, he can Trust to Believe; thus setting him on a path of Learning About God, while not yet in Understanding according to God.

Trust the God of the OT?
Absolutely. He is the Same God of the NT.

Old Testament to throw out?
No.
Why? Because it is rich in History.
Old Testament to apply to me?
No.

Of course in one sense you would be right since we do not live in that era, but in another just about all, if not all, that we find in the NT also existed in the OT even if only as types of shadows of the new. Sometime the examples in the OT show us how to live or how not to live in order to please God. We are to be led by the Holy Spirit, but part of that leading is through the scriptures themselves, is it not? You will find more real life in the fleshly examples in the OT than in the new because God has described there more people and their troubles and people and their solutions.... along with His solutions which do apply to you and to me if and when we are able to understand them:

"But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matt 4:4

As Jesus said, "It is written" referring to this OT verse:

Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

There are many changes for men that occurred with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, but there are many things that have remained the same. As you have said, it is the same God and according to scripture He has not changed.

 

[Taken]

Of course in one sense you would be right since we do not live in that era, but in another just about all, if not all, that we find in the NT also existed in the OT even if only as types of shadows of the new. Sometime the examples in the OT show us how to live or how not to live in order to please God. We are to be led by the Holy Spirit, but part of that leading is through the scriptures themselves, is it not? You will find more real life in the fleshly examples in the OT than in the new because God has described there more people and their troubles and people and their solutions.... along with His solutions which do apply to you and to me if and when we are able to understand them:

"But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matt 4:4

As Jesus said, "It is written" referring to this OT verse:

Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

There are many changes for men that occurred with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, but there are many things that have remained the same. As you have said, it is the same God and according to scripture He has not changed.

You have revealed a Directive.
Scripture reveals the "How" TO;
ie the "Way" TO accomplish the Directive.

And? Thus the meat of the matter...

If there is a Directive ~
There is a Consequence FOR;
Following the Directive.
And
Not Following the Directive.

Agree?

What is the Consequence FOR;
Would following or not following be more to the inquisitive point?

For example;

Under Jewish Law, not observing the Sabbath according to the Law, would be a sin? Yes?

Would a Saved and Born Again Christian be committing a sin, for not attending Church on a day reserved to Worship God?

For Disclousure....

What under Jewish Law called a sin, would also be a sin Committed by a Saved and Born Again Gentile Christian?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[amadeus]

You have revealed a Directive.
Scripture reveals the "How" TO;
ie the "Way" TO accomplish the Directive.

And? Thus the meat of the matter...

If there is a Directive ~
There is a Consequence FOR;
Following the Directive.
And
Not Following the Directive.

Agree?

What is the Consequence FOR;
Would following or not following be more to the inquisitive point?

For example;

Under Jewish Law, not observing the Sabbath according to the Law, would be a sin? Yes?

Would a Saved and Born Again Christian be committing a sin, for not attending Church on a day reserved to Worship God?

For Disclousure....

What under Jewish Law called a sin, would also be a sin Committed by a Saved and Born Again Gentile Christian?

God Bless,
Taken

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

"O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!" Psalm 119:5

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" Matt 7:7

 

[amadeus]

For example;

Under Jewish Law, not observing the Sabbath according to the Law, would be a sin? Yes?

Would a Saved and Born Again Christian be committing a sin, for not attending Church on a day reserved to Worship God?

For Disclousure....

What under Jewish Law called a sin, would also be a sin Committed by a Saved and Born Again Gentile Christian?

God Bless,
Taken

If such a single 24 hour day were really reserved to worship God, perhaps. But God has not reserved one day for me. For me He has directed worship of Him 7 days a week. I must also, according to Him, read my Bible 7 days a week. I do not look to the Bible for rules, but for the raw flesh of Jesus so that the Holy Spirit in me can bring it to Life as God sees fit. The direction must come from God for each decision made. The decisions are to be made every day as often as we must make them. If we take hold of our own reins, we will miss the Road. In our own hands we will make wrong decisions.

Give God the glory!

 

[Taken]

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

"O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!" Psalm 119:5

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" Matt 7:7

I found Christ Jesus, whom, fulfilled the Law, and thus left me having never been subject to the Law, not thereafter subjected to the Law, with my choosing to subject myself to Christ Jesus, and accept His Saving Grace.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

"O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!"

 

[Taken]

"O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!"

Statutes are Laws.
When did God give Statutes to Gentiles?

Jesus came to fulfill the Law;
One has to believe they are fulfilled or continue obedience to the Law.
Where in Scripture are Gentiles instructed in Law or required to adhere to the Law?

Thanks,
God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

Statutes are Laws.
When did God give Statutes to Gentiles?

Jesus came to fulfill the Law;
One has to believe they are fulfilled or continue obedience to the Law.
Where in Scripture are Gentiles instructed in Law or required to adhere to the Law?

Thanks,
God Bless,
Taken

ah, maybe the v does not apply to you, then?

 

[amadeus]

Statutes are Laws.
When did God give Statutes to Gentiles?

Jesus came to fulfill the Law;
One has to believe they are fulfilled or continue obedience to the Law.
Where in Scripture are Gentiles instructed in Law or required to adhere to the Law?

Thanks,
God Bless,
Taken

So what is a law or statute to God? It is simply a Word from God, is it not? If God speaks to our heart directing us not to kill our neighbor in spite of his evil ways, is that not His Word to us? Is not His Word to be taken as law by us? This is a problem, I believe, that people find because they look only to the Book [Bible]. They look to the old covenant as black and white laws for then but see no such law for us today. No, no black and white laws that we could or should number as in 1 through 10 or 1 through 613, but always need to seek God's will, whatever it is... and do it. Actually God really wanted the same things for those people [OT] as He does for these [NT]. Consider the meaning of the following psalm written about 1000 years before Jesus was born in Bethlehem:

"O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." Psalm 51:15-17

I do not believe those words are really a specific part of the 613 laws in effect for those people, but it does to speak of God's will, does it not?

People under that covenant had no direct access to the Holy Spirit of God for direction, but through the priests and prophets they had temporary mediators to help them. For that reason they were necessarily much more dependent on their priests and prophets than we are supposed to be on our called ministers.

 

[Taken]

ah, maybe the v does not apply to you, then?

Ah, maybe the q does not apply to you, then?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

When did God give Statutes to Gentiles?

there is no Jew or Gentile

Where in Scripture are Gentiles instructed in Law or required to adhere to the Law?

many places, "not one jot or tittle,"
"whoever encourages the least of these to do likewise will be considered least,"

but it seems that you have already sidestepped these too i guess

 

[Taken]

So what is a law or statute to God? It is simply a Word from God, is it not? If God speaks to our heart directing us not to kill our neighbor in spite of his evil ways, is that not His Word to us? Is not His Word to be taken as law by us? This is a problem, I believe, that people find because they look only to the Book [Bible]. They look to the old covenant as black and white laws for then but see no such law for us today.

The old laws were fulfilled.
Any man in Christ has TWO laws which is the Law of Christ.
1) Love the Lord with your wholeness.
2) Love your neighbors as yourself.

And as in all laws, man is not able to keep the Law, by his own power.
However a man in Christ, has Christs' Power within him, that sustains the man.

No, no black and white laws that we could or should number as in 1 through 10 or 1 through 613, but always need to seek God's will, whatever it is... and do it. Actually God really wanted the same things for those people [OT] as He does for these [NT].

Nope, just TWO.

Consider the meaning of the following psalm written about 1000 years before Jesus was born in Bethlehem:

"O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." Psalm 51:15-17

I do not believe those words are really a specific part of the 613 laws in effect for those people, but it does to speak of God's will, does it not?

Psalms: Songs and Poems of Wisdom.

People under that covenant had no direct access to the Holy Spirit of God for direction,

Disagree. Some did, as they were being groomed to be holy lineage from which the Lord Jesus would be revealed.

[QUOTEbut through the priests and prophets they had temporary mediators to help them. For that reason they were necessarily much more dependent on their priests and prophets than we are supposed to be on our called ministers.

Will agree, a royal priesthood was established; the order thereof; and the descending line thereof.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

there is no Jew or Gentile

There was, secularly and spiritually, so divided by God.

There is, secularly and spiritually, so divided by men.

However the revelation is the Saving Grace of God is the same for all men....so also is the circumcision....which was foreskin, but now is of the heart.

many places, "not one jot or tittle,"
"whoever encourages the least of these to do likewise will be considered least,"

You forgot to mention "any place", found in the "many places", so mentioned withou a reference to such "many places".

but it seems that you have already sidestepped these too i guess

Elaborate. What PRECISELY is your accusation referring to?

Please quote me saying, I do so or advocate sidestepping any law one is subject to.

I'll wait.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

There was...There is

first, there is a mountain
then there is no mountain
then there is :)

 

[Taken]

first, there is a mountain
then there is no mountain
then there is :)

You made accusatory accusations toward me, but forgot to quote me, saying it is my belief, what you accuse me of.

?? Could you address that?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[amadeus]

The old laws were fulfilled.

Yes, and what does that mean for you and for me?
Give God the glory!

Any man in Christ has TWO laws which is the Law of Christ.
1) Love the Lord with your wholeness.
2) Love your neighbors as yourself

.

Amen! But who is even able to understand what and how to go from here?

And as in all laws, man is not able to keep the Law, by his own power.
However a man in Christ, has Christs' Power within him, that sustains the man.

Not only are we unable to keep God's law, we cannot even understand it without His direction, His help.

 

[bbyrd009]

You made accusatory accusations toward me, but forgot to quote me, saying it is my belief, what you accuse me of.

?? Could you address that?

me? hey, "sidestep" was maybe not the kindest way to put it, but i mean you obviously have some belief that negates "whoever teaches ignoring the least of these will be considered least in the kingdom," i guess?
The below is your justification for this, as near as i can tell?

You forgot to mention "any place", found in the "many places", so mentioned withou a reference to such "many places".

which i don't get, but then again you don't have to justify your beliefs to me, sidestep whatever you want imo, it only has to matter to you, after all.