Can there be obedience where there is a lack of trust?

[bbyrd009]

Not only are we unable to keep God's law, we cannot even understand it without His direction, His help.

how does "love you neighbor as yourself" get sooo confusing? i don't get it tbh

 

[Taken]

Yes, and what does that mean for you and for me?
Give God the glory!

Amen! But who is even able to understand what and how to go from here?

WHO? WHO is able to Understand "according to Gods Understanding" ?

No man, by his own understanding can understand Gods Understanding. No one can find Gods Understanding written in ink on paper.

Gods Understanding is a GIFT from God, He gives to those that ARE "with" Him, and seek His Understanding.

(This is Satan's dilemma. And some men as well. Reading, Hearing, Learning Gods Word, but never being recipients of His Understanding.)

Not only are we unable to keep God's law, we cannot even understand it without His direction, His help.

True. A Law can not Save a man or Keep a man in belief, in faith, in WITH God.

True. Men "WANT" understanding "BEFORE" Trusting to Believe. And precisely why so many REJECT BELIEF....because they cannot understand.

God requires a man to TRUST to BELIEVE, without Understanding.

And the Understanding, comes AFTER for a man who diligently SEEKS it.

The man who submits, via belief in his heart,
IS the man who is reciving that little mustard seed of Faith.......

IF "THAT" is the extent of the mans, diligence, "THAT" man is SAVED.

IF "THAT" man continues reading, hearing, learning, by his own effort and desires and diligence....the Understanding begins being gifted to Him.

Perhaps a poor analogy....but it works that way with everything.... Take computers for example. Umpteen million men every day, use computers, believe they exist, believe it is a pathway to information, etc.......but few Understand much about the Computer.

An introduction to anything, comes first by knowledge of the thing....and later with due diligence ... the Understanding of the thing.

It works like that with God.
First the knowledge....and the Understanding thereof is reserved for the one who Trusts to Believe the Knowledge.

Ex 31:3
Ex 35:31
Ex 36:1
1 Kings 4:9
Job 32:8
Pss 119:34...125...169
Prov 2:3...6
Prov 3:5
Luke 24:45
Eph 5:17
Col 1:9
2 Tim 1:7


God Bless,
Taken

 

[amadeus]

how does "love you neighbor as yourself" get sooo confusing? i don't get it tbh

Two words that are too often, I believe, misunderstood and/or misapplied: Love and neighbor.

For me Love/Charity is described here:
"Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things." I Cor 13:4-7

Simple, right? So then when we go to work or to play or to school or to the market, how much charity do we witness? How much charity do we manifest? Oh, but closer to home, on this forum, how much do we witness or manifest? God help us all!

"But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise." Luke 10-29-37

So then is our neighbor the one who shows mercy?

And then again who is that loves himself? Who is it who does not?

Nothing confusing in all of this, is there, at least not if God is always leading the way...

"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." I Cor 14:33

 

[Taken]

me? hey, "sidestep" was maybe not the kindest way to put it, but i mean you obviously have some belief that negates "whoever teaches ignoring the least of these will be considered least in the kingdom," i guess?

Discussing what men do or do not do, is simply discussing millions of men that have occupied this earth, make umpteen millions of choices.

Me asking a question, is me asking a question.

Me announcing my beliefs, is me testifying of what I believe.

Please do not confuse ones own testimony of Belief, with discussing what the world does and asking questions, is my point.

You presumed, I "ignored" "sidestepped" ..when I said no such thing.

The below is your justification for this, as near as i can tell?
which i don't get, but then again you don't have to justify your beliefs to me, sidestep whatever you want imo, it only has to matter to you, after all.

True, I do not have to Justify my Beliefs....but then I simply ask that you First recognize the difference between what I say is my Belief and what is simply being discussed and posed questions.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[amadeus]

IF "THAT" man continues reading, hearing, learning, by his own effort and desires and diligence....the Understanding begins being gifted to Him.

Perhaps a poor analogy....but it works that way with everything.... Take computers for example. Umpteen million men every day, use computers, believe they exist, believe it is a pathway to information, etc.......but few Understand much about the Computer.

An introduction to anything, comes first by knowledge of the thing....and later with due diligence ... the Understanding of the thing.

It works like that with God.
First the knowledge....and the Understanding thereof is reserved for the one who Trusts to Believe the Knowledge.

Taken

Generally as goes the flesh what you say is so, but I would say that knowledge comes only after stepping out in faith and real knowledge as God sees knowledge is not be found without charity/love. I believe you did state as much in part of your post I did not quote, but I wanted to reemphasize it. To me it is quite important. I studied the Bible for many years and collected a lot of information in my mind... and then because I was trusting too much in my brain and not enough in God... I backslid... Even though all of that happened many years ago, I can never forget...

 

[bbyrd009]

You presumed, I "ignored" "sidestepped" ..when I said no such thing.

you gave at least a couple evasive answers, not sure what you expect other than "sidestepped" wadr.
Fwiw i'm still not sure if you believe one must obey the law or not, even?

 

[Taken]

Generally as goes the flesh what you say is so, but I would say that knowledge comes only after stepping out in faith and real knowledge as God sees knowledge is not be found without charity/love. I believe you did state as much in part of your post I did not quote, but I wanted to reemphasize it. To me it is quite important. I studied the Bible for many years and collected a lot of information in my mind... and then because I was trusting too much in my brain and not enough in God... I backslid... Even though all of that happened many years ago, I can never forget...

Bountiful Blessings to YOU, you figured it out!
No need to remember, God Doesn't...
Just saying...

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

if your house gets robbed, who do you call?

Depends on who I want to tell.

You presumed, I "ignored" "sidestepped" ..when I said no such thing.

i don't expect a reply though, consider it rhetorically if you like

-Left

 

[Taken]

you gave at least a couple evasive answers, not sure what you expect other than "sidestepped" wadr.
Fwiw i'm still not sure if you believe one must obey the law or not, even?

I believe the Law was fulfilled.
I believe ALL I do forward, regarding spiritual things, is by my desire, my efforts and Gods Power.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

many places, "not one jot or tittle,"
"whoever encourages the least of these to do likewise will be considered least,"

You forgot to mention "any place", found in the "many places", so mentioned withou a reference to such "many places".

True, I do not have to Justify my Beliefs....but then I simply ask that you First recognize the difference between what I say is my Belief and what is simply being discussed and posed questions.

ok, which one is this one?

 

[bbyrd009]

I believe the Law was fulfilled.
I believe ALL I do forward, regarding spiritual things, is by my desire, my efforts and Gods Power.

God Bless,
Taken

ok, but on the other hand, you encourage ppl to discount keeping the Law?
Which don't get me wrong, lotta ppl here doing that too

can't get a straight answer from them either
i guess they're all "offended" now too lol
never read a DRB, but it must be a skinny Bible!

 

[Taken]

ok, which one is this one?

That was you making a statement of "many places" something was apparently mentioned in Scripture, but you failed to mention even one place.

What "many places" are? It was your statement, thus it would be something you apparently know.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

That was you making a statement of "many places" something was apparently mentioned in Scripture, but you failed to mention even one place.

What "many places" are? It was your statement, thus it would be something you apparently know.

God Bless,
Taken

oh, i'm all caught up now, sorry.
i mentioned two Scriptures, but i see they are not being recognized as such now.
i could surely give you like 50 though, "not one jot or tittle" and "whoever encourages the least of these" were just the first two that came to mind

-Left

 

[Taken]

ok, but on the other hand, you encourage ppl to discount keeping the Law?
Which don't get me wrong, lotta ppl here doing that too

No. I can testify of myself, what applies to me, and I can testify of WHY what applies to me applies to me.

I repeatedly say, hear, read, learn the knowledge, trust to believe it, and the understanding of the knowledge comes from God.

can't get a straight answer from them either
i guess they're all "offended" now too lol
never read a DRB, but it must be a skinny Bible!

I can not "decide" what in Scripture Applies to you....I can make some deductions of what Applies to you, by your own testimony.

Gods Laws and Teachings were given to an "elect" group of people, ie who came to become called the Hebrews....then called the Jews. Did every single Hebrew and Jew, Keep Gods Laws, Obey Gods Laws, Keep and Teach forward His Teachings? No, they didn't.

In fact, so many STOPPED....that Jesus came TO seek them....ie The Lost.
The "Lost" were those "steeped" historically, from their generational "fathers", but over time, being scattered, exposed to other cultures, traditions, ways of the world....began drifting away from their "fathers" way of Keeping belief and obedience to the Word of God.

Point is Gentiles had not been "included" in the elect. They were not given Gods Laws, Moses' Laws, Traditions, Festivals, Feasts to observe, Nor given Gods Teachings that "they" (Gentiles) would then Teach the world.

So what happened to the Hebrews/Jews who fell away....and rejected the Word of God?

They became separated from God.
And? Is there now a VOID in God's ELECT?
No.

Gentiles have now the option to become "grafted" in. In to what? Into Gods Elect.

And do ALL Gentiles choose to become "grafted in" ? No, they do not.

And what about the Jews, WHO, continue to obey the Laws of "their fathers"?
They become the "elect" of God, just as "their" fathers who did also.

But, wait. Didn't Jesus FULFIL the Laws of "their" fathers? Yes, He did.

But......hummm?? Some Jews "during" Jesus' day on earth, came to believe, Jesus is the Word of God. Some Jews "after" Jesus ascended bodily, continued to believe, Jesus is the Word of God, by and through Jesus' Apostles Teachings.

And then what? People do what people do....
They scatter, they hear Worldly things, some clan together, some accept Worldly traditions, and cultures, and such.

So Today, we continue to have Jews, scattered all about the Earth. They like anyone else Individually Choose to Believe In the Word of God, like their forefathers, (keeping the Laws OF the Jews), Choose to Believe the Word of God is Jesus, (called Messanic Jews), or Choose to Believe nothing of God.

However, Their Historical Writings, from the OT, (of men who Believed in the Word of God) and NT (Jews who followed after Jesus' Teachings).....and ?

Such OT Laws, are adopted BY SOME Gentiles, they they try to follow the laws.

Such Basic Teachings, are adopted BY (ALL Christian Denominations), but not ALL Gentiles.

Bottom line - it does not matter, what era, what generation of people, what Gender, what race, what part of the World one inhabits....

Any man who inhabits the Earth, and chooses to Truly Believe in his Heart, in the Word of God.....shall become Gods Elect, His chosen People, His Israel, With Life and With Him forever.

While I can recognize MANY DO...
I do not encourage ANYONE to reject trusting or believing in the Word of God.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Helen]

ok, but on the other hand, you encourage ppl to discount keeping the Law?
Which don't get me wrong, lotta ppl here doing that too

can't get a straight answer from them either
i guess they're all "offended" now too lol
never read a DRB, but it must be a skinny Bible!

Not so...it's just that you don't like the answer so you ask it again, or just disagree. ( which is your right) But you wont get a different answer by asking it again. LOL
Chin up.

 

[Taken]

oh, i'm all caught up now, sorry.
i mentioned two Scriptures, but i see they are not being recognized as such now.
i could surely give you like 50 though, "not one jot or tittle" and "whoever encourages the least of these" were just the first two that came to mind

-Left

I am well aware not one jot shall pass from the "WISE" of the Law.

Jesus Fulfilled, and Accomplished and Finished, what He came to Earth to Fulfil and and Accomplish and Finish.....remember Jesus saying it is Finished? When more is Fulfilled and Accomplished, is will be revealed, it is Done.

So anyway, about the "Wise" of the Law.
That is to say there IS WISDOM IN the LAW.

It is the "WISE" of the Law, that ANY man can learn and benefit from that WISDOM.
(Those are the "things" that TEACH men, HOW TO, do "works" that Glorify Gods Great Names.)

Now also within the Books Written, By the Hebrews, OF the Laws, were also Written by the appointed Priests (Aaron (Moses', brother), and descending down to Aaron's sons, to also be Priests)......WERE "CURSES" written.

CURSES, are the Unfavorable Consequences for NOT Adhering to the Law.

Every disobedience to the Law, are/were according to the LAW...."a SIN".

Even forward to the NT. Jews, teaching Jews, about this New Gospel of Jesus Christ, were referencing OT Laws, and disobedience to the Law....BEING a SIN.

Remember....this is Jewish History of what Jews were Familiar with....and hearing OF and ABOUT Jesus was New to Them.
So consider their speech among themselves, IS what was Familiar to Them.
"Everything NOT adhering to the Law....... was a SIN".

Now consider, WHAT CHANGED with the death of Jesus' BODY....

???

Every man WHO, has submitted to Believe in the Word of God....and Jesus IS that Word of God.....

WHAT?

They have been "released"..."redeemed"...
FROM....?? The Curse of the Law!

Gal 3:13

So, is the WISE of the LAW, still in effect?
Yes.

AND is the CURSE of the Law, still in effect?
If one is "still" under the "law" Yes.
If one has been "redeemed" from the Curse" No.

I have been "redeemed" from the Curse of the Law....That applies to me, because I know what I have done, to be "redeemed" from the Curse of the Law.

Hope that clears up some of your questioning.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

so iow i'm not going to get any answers, ok

Not so...it's just that you don't like the answer so you ask it again, or just disagree. ( which is your right) But you wont get a different answer by asking it again. LOL
Chin up.

ha what answer did i even get, that you say i don't like? not counting the two evasive ones? quote it

 

[bbyrd009]

Hope that clears up some of your questioning.

nope sorry, direct answers of less than a half page would clear up my questioning, but again i don't have to understand everything lol.
i understand that some Qs don't really have direct answers, but sheesh already
"Are you Catholic?"
"yes"
see, not hard

 

[bbyrd009]

Where in Scripture are Gentiles instructed in Law or required to adhere to the Law?

now i have answered this Q, and even offered 48 other vv to back it up, and all of your reply after this was incomprehensible to me, just so you know, besides which you make it obvious by not taking me up on the offer.

Confusion surrounding "under the law" and "obey the law" that the religious dish out in "church" we pretty much bat back and forth here all day long, lots of ppl confused about that, but trust me telling them Where in Scripture are Gentiles instructed in Law or required to adhere to the Law? with a straight face, and then ignoring the replies and getting evasive, prolly not the best way to go

 

[Taken]

nope sorry, direct answers of less than a half page would clear up my questioning, but again i don't have to understand everything lol.
i understand that some Qs don't really have direct answers, but sheesh already
"Are you Catholic?"
"yes"
see, not hard

No