CAN WE FALL AWAY ?

[Rollo Tamasi]

What's WRONG!
Which ones aren't?

Read my signature!

 

[Taken]

John 15 is an allegory and incorrect to use it for hermeneutics?
Interesting since Jesus used parables, allegories, and other such methods to relay His message to the people of that day and there is even a very strong reason why He did this. I trust you know what it is since you're so knowledgeable.

Here is your allegory that Jesus used:

I AM THE TRUE VINE .... Jesus is the vine. Hmmm. Wonder what that could mean?

MY FATHER IS THE VINE DRESSER .... God Father takes care of the vine. Hmmmm.....

THERE ARE BRANCHES IN JESUS, THE VINE.... Wonder who the branches could be??

GOD FATHER PRUNES SOME OF THE BRANCHES .... Jesus even tells us which ones. Do you know which ones?

BRANCHES CANNOT BEAR FRUIT ON THEIR OWN.... More mystery. Maybe Jesus didn't mean to be understood??

I AM THE VINE, YOU ARE THE BRANCHES .... Wow, looks like Jesus is helping us along to understand !

IF ANYONE DOES NOT ABIDE IN ME, HE IS THROWN AWAY AND BURNED...
Quite an allegory,,,everything has meaning, and Jesus means everything.

It's a good thing to know proper exegesis and hermeneutics in general.
For starters, Jesus meant everything He said for EVERYONE who desires to be a disciple and follow Him.

Here is something Paul said, you're hero:

1 Corinthians 11:1-3
1Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.

2Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you. 3But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

Kind of sounds like the allegory of John 15.
Christ is the head of every man.
God is the head of Christ.

The natural man springs forth as a BRANCH, FROM THE VINE.

The natural man springs forth from the BRANCH as a little bud that is ENLIGHTENED by receiving the Word of God, ie THE SON.

The little "bud" that Trusts, Believes, Submits by Vow to the ENLIGHTENMENT, Becomes the BRANCH that RECEIVES the SEED of God, and thereafter IS CAPABLE of BLOOMING into Fruit.

The SEED was promised, The SEED was given, The SEED was revealed, The SEED continues to be given....to every man WHO elects to Willfully, Heartfully Submit.

Gal 3:16
Now to Abraham and his (stock/sperm) seed were "THE PROMISES" made.

He saith "not", And to seed(S)
"As of Many",

BUT

"As of ONE",

And to they seed,

Which IS CHRIST.

IOW, eternal Life is reserved, not by BEING from the (sperm) stock of a Hebrew, or a Jew.....But rather "BY" a man WHO RECEIVES;
Gods SEED. And Gods SEED, "IS CHRIST".

It is ONLY POSSIBLE for a BRANCH (man) to BLOOM, produce Fruit, IF he is OF THE SEED, OF THE VINE.

IF that IS NOT the Case...the BRANCH WILL BE BROKEN OFF and Burned.

 

[GodsGrace]

Read my signature!

And...?

List of reformed churches in the U.S.A.
Check out the Presbytarian churches....

North America[edit]
Main article: List of Reformed denominations in North America

• American Presbyterian Church (founded 1979)
• Anglican Mission in the Americas
• Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church (Scots-Irish Presbyterians)
• Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America
• Calvin Synod (United Church of Christ)
• Canadian and American Reformed Churches (Dutch Reformed - Liberated)
• Christian Reformed Church in North America (Dutch Reformed - GKN)
• Christian Presbyterian Church
• Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches
• Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church
• Covenanting Association of Reformed and Presbyterian Churches
• Congregational Christian Churches in Canada
• Cumberland Presbyterian Church in America
• Evangelical Assembly of Presbyterian Churches in America
• Evangelical Covenant Order of Presbyterians
• Evangelical Presbyterian Church
• Evangelical Reformed Church in America (ERCA)
• Evangelical Reformed Presbyterian Church
• Fellowship of Independent Reformed Evangelicals[19]
• Free Reformed Churches in North America - (Dutch Reformed - CGKN)
• Free Church of Scotland - has about 9 congregations in North America
• Free Church of Scotland (Continuing) - has 7 congregations in North America
• Free Presbyterian Church of North America
• French Protestant (Huguenot) Church, Charleston, SC——The only French Calvinist or Huguenot congregation still existing in the United States.
• Heritage Netherlands Reformed Congregations
• Hungarian Reformed Church in America
• Korean-American Presbyterian Church
• Korean Presbyterian Church in America[20]
• Lithuanian Evangelical Reformed Church in America
• Netherlands Reformed Congregations

Associated with the Dutch Reformed (Gereformeerde Gemeenten (Dutch)) churches in the Netherlands.

• Newfrontiers in the United States
• Orthodox Christian Reformed Church (Dutch Reformed - GKN)
• Orthodox Presbyterian Church
• Presbyterian Church in America

The PCA is the second largest Presbyterian denomination in the United States, after the PC(USA). Its motto is: "Faithful to the Scriptures, True to the Reformed Faith and Obedient to the Great Commission of Jesus Christ."

• Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)

Most Presbyterian churches adhere to the Westminster Confession of Faith, but the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), in order to embrace the historical expressions of the whole Reformed tradition as found in the United States, has adopted a Book of Confessions which includes the Westminster Confession of Faith.

• Presbyterian Churches have split a number of times. Many of these historic splits have been resolved. From the continuing branch churches, some have split in turn. Only some of the continuing branches from the main bodies are listed here, with the year of their separation.
  • Cumberland Presbyterian Church (1810)
  • Orthodox Presbyterian Church (1936 from the Northern PCUSA)
  • Bible Presbyterian Church (1937 from the OPC)
  • Presbyterian Church in America (1973 from the Southern PCUS)
  • Reformed Presbyterian Church in the United States (1983 from the PCA)
  • Evangelical Presbyterian Church (1981 from Northern UPC and Southern PCUS)
• Presbyterian Reformed Church (Canada)
• Protestant Reformed Churches in America (Dutch Reformed - GKN)

part 1 of 2

 

[GodsGrace]

Part 2 of 2

One of the most conservative of all Reformed/Calvinist denominations, the PRCA separated from the Christian Reformed Church in the 1920s in a schism over the issue of common grace.

• Puritan Reformed Church
• Reformed Congregations in North America
• Reformed Church in the United States (German Reformed)

The majority of the original Reformed Church in the United States, which was founded in 1725, merged with Evangelical Synod of North America (a mix of German Reformed & Lutheran theologies) to form the Evangelical and Reformed Church in 1940 (which would merge with the Congregational Christian Churches in 1957 to form the United Church of Christ) leaving the Eureka Classis serving as a Continuing church of the Reformed Church in the United States until 1986, when it was dissolved to form the Synod of the Reformed Church in the United States

• Reformed Anglican Church
• Reformed Church in America

The Reformed Church in America (RCA) is the oldest Dutch Reformed denomination in the United States, dating back from the mid-17th century

• Reformed Church of Quebec
• Reformed Episcopal Church
• Reformed Presbyterian Church - Hanover Presbytery
• Reformed Presbyterian Church in the United States
• Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America (RPCNA, Scottish Covenanters)
• Reformed Presbytery in North America (Scottish Covenanters)
• Southern Baptist Convention

Although most churches in the Southern Baptist Convention cannot be described as Reformed, the Baptist Faith and Message is open enough to allow for Reformed Baptist churches. These Reformed Baptist churches generally also affirm the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith. The Founders Ministries is a group of Southern Baptists that assert that the founding of the Southern Baptist Convention had placed the denomination within the Reformed tradition. Additionally, the SBC has been increasingly influenced in the 21st century by New Calvinism.

• Sovereign Grace Churches (Credobaptist, charismatic)
• United Church of Canada
• United Church of Christ

The United Church of Christ was formed in 1957 as a union bringing together the majority of Congregational churches in the US, the (German) Reformed Church in the United States, the (German) Evangelical Synod of North America (a body descended from the Reformed-Lutheran Evangelical Church of the Prussian Union), and the Christian Connection (a restorationist movement).

• United Reformed Churches in North America (Dutch Reformed - GKN)
• Upper Cumberland Presbyterian Church separated from the Cumberland Presbyterian Church
• Westminster Presbyterian Church in the United States

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Reformed_denominations

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Part 2 of 2

One of the most conservative of all Reformed/Calvinist denominations, the PRCA separated from the Christian Reformed Church in the 1920s in a schism over the issue of common grace.

• Puritan Reformed Church
• Reformed Congregations in North America
• Reformed Church in the United States (German Reformed)

The majority of the original Reformed Church in the United States, which was founded in 1725, merged with Evangelical Synod of North America (a mix of German Reformed & Lutheran theologies) to form the Evangelical and Reformed Church in 1940 (which would merge with the Congregational Christian Churches in 1957 to form the United Church of Christ) leaving the Eureka Classis serving as a Continuing church of the Reformed Church in the United States until 1986, when it was dissolved to form the Synod of the Reformed Church in the United States

• Reformed Anglican Church
• Reformed Church in America

The Reformed Church in America (RCA) is the oldest Dutch Reformed denomination in the United States, dating back from the mid-17th century

• Reformed Church of Quebec
• Reformed Episcopal Church
• Reformed Presbyterian Church - Hanover Presbytery
• Reformed Presbyterian Church in the United States
• Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America (RPCNA, Scottish Covenanters)
• Reformed Presbytery in North America (Scottish Covenanters)
• Southern Baptist Convention

Although most churches in the Southern Baptist Convention cannot be described as Reformed, the Baptist Faith and Message is open enough to allow for Reformed Baptist churches. These Reformed Baptist churches generally also affirm the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith. The Founders Ministries is a group of Southern Baptists that assert that the founding of the Southern Baptist Convention had placed the denomination within the Reformed tradition. Additionally, the SBC has been increasingly influenced in the 21st century by New Calvinism.

• Sovereign Grace Churches (Credobaptist, charismatic)
• United Church of Canada
• United Church of Christ

The United Church of Christ was formed in 1957 as a union bringing together the majority of Congregational churches in the US, the (German) Reformed Church in the United States, the (German) Evangelical Synod of North America (a body descended from the Reformed-Lutheran Evangelical Church of the Prussian Union), and the Christian Connection (a restorationist movement).

• United Reformed Churches in North America (Dutch Reformed - GKN)
• Upper Cumberland Presbyterian Church separated from the Cumberland Presbyterian Church
• Westminster Presbyterian Church in the United States

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Reformed_denominations

Doesn't do nothing for me.
The presby church out my way is huge and does street evangelism
better than most any other church

 

[GodsGrace]

The natural man springs forth as a BRANCH, FROM THE VINE.

The natural man springs forth from the BRANCH as a little bud that is ENLIGHTENED by receiving the Word of God, ie THE SON.

The little "bud" that Trusts, Believes, Submits by Vow to the ENLIGHTENMENT, Becomes the BRANCH that RECEIVES the SEED of God, and thereafter IS CAPABLE of BLOOMING into Fruit.

The SEED was promised, The SEED was given, The SEED was revealed, The SEED continues to be given....to every man WHO elects to Willfully, Heartfully Submit.

Gal 3:16
Now to Abraham and his (stock/sperm) seed were "THE PROMISES" made.

He saith "not", And to seed(S)
"As of Many",

BUT

"As of ONE",

And to they seed,

Which IS CHRIST.

IOW, eternal Life is reserved, not by BEING from the (sperm) stock of a Hebrew, or a Jew.....But rather "BY" a man WHO RECEIVES;
Gods SEED. And Gods SEED, "IS CHRIST".

It is ONLY POSSIBLE for a BRANCH (man) to BLOOM, produce Fruit, IF he is OF THE SEED, OF THE VINE.

IF that IS NOT the Case...the BRANCH WILL BE BROKEN OFF and Burned.

Really?

1 Corinthians 2:14
14But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

 

[GodsGrace]

Doesn't do nothing for me.
The presby church out my way is huge and does street evangelism
better than most any other church

So? What does that prove?
Are they teaching the word of God or are they teaching the word of a man?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Part 2 of 2

One of the most conservative of all Reformed/Calvinist denominations, the PRCA separated from the Christian Reformed Church in the 1920s in a schism over the issue of common grace.

• Puritan Reformed Church
• Reformed Congregations in North America
• Reformed Church in the United States (German Reformed)

The majority of the original Reformed Church in the United States, which was founded in 1725, merged with Evangelical Synod of North America (a mix of German Reformed & Lutheran theologies) to form the Evangelical and Reformed Church in 1940 (which would merge with the Congregational Christian Churches in 1957 to form the United Church of Christ) leaving the Eureka Classis serving as a Continuing church of the Reformed Church in the United States until 1986, when it was dissolved to form the Synod of the Reformed Church in the United States

• Reformed Anglican Church
• Reformed Church in America

The Reformed Church in America (RCA) is the oldest Dutch Reformed denomination in the United States, dating back from the mid-17th century

• Reformed Church of Quebec
• Reformed Episcopal Church
• Reformed Presbyterian Church - Hanover Presbytery
• Reformed Presbyterian Church in the United States
• Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America (RPCNA, Scottish Covenanters)
• Reformed Presbytery in North America (Scottish Covenanters)
• Southern Baptist Convention

Although most churches in the Southern Baptist Convention cannot be described as Reformed, the Baptist Faith and Message is open enough to allow for Reformed Baptist churches. These Reformed Baptist churches generally also affirm the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith. The Founders Ministries is a group of Southern Baptists that assert that the founding of the Southern Baptist Convention had placed the denomination within the Reformed tradition. Additionally, the SBC has been increasingly influenced in the 21st century by New Calvinism.

• Sovereign Grace Churches (Credobaptist, charismatic)
• United Church of Canada
• United Church of Christ

The United Church of Christ was formed in 1957 as a union bringing together the majority of Congregational churches in the US, the (German) Reformed Church in the United States, the (German) Evangelical Synod of North America (a body descended from the Reformed-Lutheran Evangelical Church of the Prussian Union), and the Christian Connection (a restorationist movement).

• United Reformed Churches in North America (Dutch Reformed - GKN)
• Upper Cumberland Presbyterian Church separated from the Cumberland Presbyterian Church
• Westminster Presbyterian Church in the United States

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Reformed_denominations

Well, whoop ti doo

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

So? What does that prove?
Are they teaching the word of God or are they teaching the word of a man?

Kids are getting saved, so you tell me

 

[GodsGrace]

Well, whoop ti doo

No. This is a serious matter.
No whoop ti doo.

We must preach the word of God,
not the word of a MAN. That man being John Calvin.
...who made up his very own religion.

 

[GodsGrace]

Kids are getting saved, so you tell me

If they ever find out the truth of what they are being taught, they will most probably leave the Christian religion and not join another group...unless they're lucky, as some on this very forum are, and learn the truth and seek it elsewhere.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

If they ever find out the truth of what they are being taught, they will most probably leave the Christian religion and not join another group...unless they're lucky, as some on this very forum are, and learn the truth and seek it elsewhere.

well, whoop to doo

 

[GodsGrace]

well, whoop to doo

Be serious sometimes...

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Be serious sometimes...

And when should those time be?
When should I not be myself?
How do I know how to act to please others all the time?
I'm so confused!!!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I guess I'm telling you how important I think talking about John Calvin is.
Did you check my ratings thread last night?

 

[GodsGrace]

And when should those time be?
When should I not be myself?
How do I know how to act to please others all the time?
I'm so confused!!!

Here's how Rollo:

If the conversation is serious, YOU be serious too.
If it's a derailing thread, then kid around all you want to.
It doesn't mean you shouldn't act like yourself....
Just state what you believe.
You DON'T act to please others all the time, otherwise you'd be having a serious conversation with me right now.

 

[GodsGrace]

I guess I'm telling you how important I think talking about John Calvin is.
Did you check my ratings thread last night?

Yeah yeah. I know you don't think it's important.
But some on these forums do...

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Here's how Rollo:

If the conversation is serious, YOU be serious too.
If it's a derailing thread, then kid around all you want to.
It doesn't mean you shouldn't act like yourself....
Just state what you believe.
You DON'T act to please others all the time, otherwise you'd be having a serious conversation with me right now.

Yes dear.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Yeah yeah. I know you don't think it's important.
But some on these forums do...

I just think that some day we should get past the Calvins and falling away threads and move on to something enlightening...
Like girls.....

 

[GodsGrace]

I just think that some day we should get past the Calvins and falling away threads and move on to something enlightening...
Like girls.....

Go check out the God's Kingdom thread.