CAN WE FALL AWAY ?

[Taken]

Really?

1 Corinthians 2:14
14But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

Really.

Read again. I first spoke of ENLIGHTENMENT.
That is a man RECEIVING KNOWLEDGE of the Word of God. It is NOT the Lords Spirit ABIDING IN A MAN.

There IS NO COMMITMENT, IN Place.
The man IS STILL natural.
The man CAN believe, not believe, sort of believe, deny, continue or walk away.

During the time a man IS hearing the WORD, ie BEING enLIGHTened, TO the WORD of the LIGHT Himself......He Himself, ie the Lord, GIVES that man measures of the gift of FAITH.

As long as the man CONTINUES to HEAR...
The Lord CONTINUES to gift the man with FAITH.

Should the man DECIDE TO STOP and NOT Continue.....The man STOPS receiving the gift of Faith from God....The man IS THUS CALLED, having Fallen From Faith!

This IS NOT a man RECEIVING the INDWELLING Spirit of God.
This purely a man RECEIVING measures of Faith....a gift from God.

God Does NOT SAVE the SAVED.

So, absolutely WHILE a man IS STILL IN HIS NATURAL SIN......It is While he IS IN his Natural Sin....he electes to voluntarily, by his own Freewill, TO GIVE his LIFE unto Death, and TO THE Lord.....or not.

The Basis for a man TO elect to Give his LIFE TO Lord, IS solely Based upon him having RECEIVED EnLIGHTenment, by and of Gods Word, AND God gifting the man WITH "faith".

It is a man having GAINED Gods gift of Faith, and the Decesion of the man TO Accepts Gods gift and Continue Accepting His Gift of Faith...

that Prepares the man, STILL IN HIS SIN, TO further call on the Lord and NOTIFY HIM, they ELECT and CHOOSE TO "ACCEPT HIS FORGIVENESS, HIS SALVATION, HIS SEED, HIS SPIRIT."

THAT IS the turning POINT of WHEN a man IS FURTHER PREPARED TO BEGIN a Relationship WITH the Lord and privy to His Understanding of His Word and HOW a man CAN Serve Him, "ACCORDING TO HIS WILL"....and IS MADE POSSIBLE, Precisely Because the Lords SEED and the Lords Spirit is Forever Abiding within THAT man, and the man Forever in Complete faith-FULLNESS "TO" the FULLNESS of God Himself.

Rom 5:8
Rom 5:9
Luke 7:50
Eph 1:18
Mark 18:3
Acts 3:19

 

[Enoch111]

Really?

1 Corinthians 2:14
14But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

I will quote this verse from the KJV and explain why it is inapplicable to sinners being saved by grace.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The context of this verse is the entire passage from verses 1-16, and Paul specifically mentions (a) the things which God hath prepared for them that love him, (b) the deep things of God, and (c) the things that are freely given to us of God. AND NONE OF THIS PERTAINS TO THE GOSPEL.

So to understand how sinners are saved by hearing the Word of God, it is critical to read and study Romans 10 which says (vv 8,17):But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach...So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The preaching and hearing of the Gospel generates saving faith, and the Holy Spirit is always there to convict and convince. All a sinner needs to understand is that Christ died for his sins and rose again for his justification, and that God commands him to repent and be converted and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.

 

[H. Richard]

GodsGrace replied;
HR,
God will know His children. Certainly not those who encourage others not to obey the commandments of God by stating that there aren't any when Jesus clearly said that there are.

I post scripture. Your disagreement is with scripture.
You resort to personal comments about me.
This is all that's left when someone does not have a leg to stand on because his beliefs go against scripture.

So much writing on your part to reach no conclusion...

****

NO! My disagreement is with your understanding that we are still under the commandments Jesus gave to the Jews who were under the law.

Show me where I have encouraged others to sin. The scriptures teach that Jesus paid for our sins on the cross when He shed His blood to pay for them. We are saved by what HE DID and not what we do in following commandments. I give Jesus all the glory for salvation while those who place their faith in what they do in following commandment glory in their work of following commandments.

What I have written is found in the word of God. You are having a problem in understanding which commandments we are to follow and I suspect it is because you spend all your time in the 4 gospels and the first 8 chapters of Acts. Jesus told Ananias the following about Paul; "
Acts 9:15-16
15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."
NKJV

I have placed my faith in Jesus' work on the cross where He paid for my sins and purchased my salvation. But you say we are saved by our work of following commandments.

Are we to follow commandments given to those under the Law of Moses or are we to believe in the HIDDEN GOSPEL OF GRACE given to Paul for us; Paul's message of God's grace that Jesus gave to Paul {GRACE NOT LAW}. But I understand that the religious will not accept the fact that Jesus changed the gospel from legalism to Grace. They will not accept the fact that it was Jesus who changed the gospel to grace where everyone has an equal chance of redemption in spite of their sinful condition of their flesh. In spite of their ability to stop sinning in the flesh.

Tell me what I have said about you that is not evidenced by what you have written. I said you are following legalism and that is following Jesus' teaching of the Law of Moses to the Jews.

All scripture is given for our learning but not all of it is to us under grace. The commandments given under the Law of Moses was to the Jews who were under the Law., not the Gentiles. But it seems you base your faith in man's ability to follow commandments.

A person must "RIGHTLY DIVIDE" the word of God. That means we must make sure we are listening to what is written TO US. Want an example? The religious quote James where he wrote that faith without works is dead. Under the Law of Moses that was true but under grace it is not. Read James 1:1 and you see that the book was written to those those under the Law of Moses ;Jews. It was not written to those under grace.

 

[Heb 13:8]

John 15 is an allegory and incorrect to use it for hermeneutics?
Interesting since Jesus used parables, allegories, and other such methods to relay His message to the people of that day and there is even a very strong reason why He did this. I trust you know what it is since you're so knowledgeable.

Here is your allegory that Jesus used:

I AM THE TRUE VINE .... Jesus is the vine. Hmmm. Wonder what that could mean?

MY FATHER IS THE VINE DRESSER .... God Father takes care of the vine. Hmmmm.....

THERE ARE BRANCHES IN JESUS, THE VINE.... Wonder who the branches could be??

GOD FATHER PRUNES SOME OF THE BRANCHES .... Jesus even tells us which ones. Do you know which ones?

BRANCHES CANNOT BEAR FRUIT ON THEIR OWN.... More mystery. Maybe Jesus didn't mean to be understood??

I AM THE VINE, YOU ARE THE BRANCHES .... Wow, looks like Jesus is helping us along to understand !

IF ANYONE DOES NOT ABIDE IN ME, HE IS THROWN AWAY AND BURNED...
Quite an allegory,,,everything has meaning, and Jesus means everything.

It's a good thing to know proper exegesis and hermeneutics in general.
For starters, Jesus meant everything He said for EVERYONE who desires to be a disciple and follow Him.

Here is something Paul said, you're hero:

1 Corinthians 11:1-3
1Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.

2Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you. 3But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

Kind of sounds like the allegory of John 15.
Christ is the head of every man.
God is the head of Christ.

Disproving facts through parables and allegories is sloppy exegesis.

 

[Taken]

I will quote this verse from the KJV and explain why it is inapplicable to sinners being saved by grace.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The context of this verse is the entire passage from verses 1-16, and Paul specifically mentions (a) the things which God hath prepared for them that love him, (b) the deep things of God, and (c) the things that are freely given to us of God. AND NONE OF THIS PERTAINS TO THE GOSPEL.

So to understand how sinners are saved by hearing the Word of God, it is critical to read and study Romans 10 which says (vv 8,17):But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach...So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The preaching and hearing of the Gospel generates saving faith, and the Holy Spirit is always there to convict and convince. All a sinner needs to understand is that Christ died for his sins and rose again for his justification, and that God commands him to repent and be converted and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.

Amen!

The OP...Can "we" FALL AWAY.

In a nutshell it depends on who the "WE" is, as I Tried to explain in a recent post.

Using "general terms"...pronouns, believe, Christian, etc. Do not Reveal thee most Prominate and Essential Fact.

Either a man IS repentant, forgiven, his sins covered and out of Gods remembrance, his body crucified with Christ, washed, cleansed, sanctified, KEPT with Jesus, justified to be claimed, redeemed, and glorified, his soul restored, his spirit Quickened, his heart Circumcised, having received the Lords Seed and the Lords Spirit.... By and Through Christ the Lord...ONCE and Forever...
Ie.....Summed up in one word according to Jesus....Converted.

Or he Has not, and Is not.

There is no Kinda sorta ... having received those things By and Through Christ and then teaching those things can become lost, UNDONE, effectively promoting of turning the Truth of God into a LIE.

Can "we" FALL AWAY?

If the "we" Is a Converted man...no
If the "we" Is an UnConverted man...yes

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Helen]

I thought you were a member of the Church of the Enlightened Path as the Grand Banana of the Flowering Maidens

Haha!! Good one...thanks for the reminder...but as it's leader you have not fed us hungry members lately...

 

[BreadOfLife]

Kids are getting saved, so you tell me

How do YOU know who is saved??

If one of those kids falls away - you guys usually claim that they were "never saved" to begin with - so HOW do you know if they are saved?

Answer: You DON'T.

 

[BreadOfLife]

While you persist in revealing your hardened heart.....in a sad way it is verging on comical.
Funny how a CHILD can comprehend the Indwelling Spirit of God is MIGHTIER than a mans, and KEEPS a man FOREVER in Faith-FULLNESS to Him.

It's even funnier how YOU keep insisting that a man is "saved forever" once he is converted - but yo haven't been able to show me ANY Scripture to back it up.

Now, THAT'S hilarious . . .

Seems your Church doctrine has OMITTED, NO MAN can be plucked out of His Hand.

The Bible NEVER says that a man can't leap out of His hand by his own accord. In fact, it says several times that this IS possible and WARNS of it.
It simply says that no man can pluck him out of God's hand.

Funny. Seems your church doctrine has OMITTED teaching His servants Cooperate BY AND THROUGH HIS POWER!
But no matter; you can Pridefully take the credit for supposedly "keeping yourself faithful", by your own efforts. Lol

Actually - that's false.

The Church has ALWAYS taught that we stay faithful by HIS power. What YOUR sect has failed to teach YOU is that unless we cooperate with that power - we can't stay faithful.

STAY? LOL. Funny, funny.
Seems your church doctrine also OMITS teaching; He is ALL KNOWING...HE DOES NOT CONVERT or Spiritually ENTER a man WHO WOULD desire to REJECT Him!

Another lie.
Big surprise . . .

NOWHERE does the Bible teach in context that we don't have a completely FREE WILL.
The little god YOU'VE invented for yourself, however, forces you to do his will.

That's not "love" - that's rape.

Thanks for yet another of your worldly renditions.
My children at times were in public schools, and NOT ONCE were they PROHIBITED from Praying or Speaking His Name!

Then, apparently, you don't watch the news.
Kids are constantly getting into trouble for praying on campus - and adults are prohibited from displaying or sharing anything about God in the workplace.

Seems your church doctrine OMITTED teaching you, YOU can not KICK OUT WHAT YOU HAVE NOT GAINED!

And YOUR sect lied to you when they told you that we don't have a free will to choose and later reject God.

I MADE my FREEWILL Choice and Election.
How you have determined that IS FORCE, is corrupt reasoning.

However since YOUR CHOICE WAS "supposedly" made FOR YOU....YOU DID NOT ELECT Him yourself....I suppose your church teaching of rejecting Him would be MOST appropriate, since YOU NEVER Chose Him to begin with.

Now THAT'S funny.

You've been regurgitating the same lie on multiple threads that God "keeps" us faithful - and there is NOTHING we can do about it. NOW, you're trying to tell me that you make "Freewill choices"??

If I look up "Hypocrisy" in the dictionary - am I going to see your picture - or just your name?

When? When you become something OTHER THAN A MAN? LOL

It doesn't take anybody else for you to jump out of God's hand. Nobody has the power to pull you away from Him. It NEVER says that YOU can't leave Him on your own. Just that you can't blame anybody else for it.

BIG difference . . .

God IS ALWAYS WITH ME and IN ME....NOT ONCE have I gone ANYWHERE that says, hey, if God is with you or in you.....NO ADMITTANCE!
You spend too much time being OF the World, instead of discovering HOW TO BE OF God.

It's not surprising that you completely missed this point.
I was talking about the fact that God's will is NOT always carried out because man has a free will that sometimes usurps God's will.

1 Tim. 2:4 tells us that God WILLS the salvation of ALL men and that ALL come to a knowledge of the truth.

Will ALL be saved?
NOPE.

You forgot to EXPLAIN, EXACTLY how a man REJECTS GOD AFTER a Conversion?
Change his mind?
Yup - his mind and his heart.

Again - R*E*A*D your Bible . . .

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

How do YOU know who is saved??

If one of those kids falls away - you guys usually claim that they were "never saved" to begin with - so HOW do you know if they are saved?

Answer: You DON'T.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Thanks for exposing your ignorance again.
This is EXACTLY the kind of impotent response I expected from you . . .

 

[Taken]

How do YOU know who is saved??

If one of those kids falls away - you guys usually claim that they were "never saved" to begin with - so HOW do you know if they are saved?

Answer: You DON'T.

Who "Knows" Who Is saved...iS
1) specific persons identified in Scripture
2) individual persons themselves who heartfully became Converted
3) The Lord God Himself

Others have "indications", such as TRUSTING to believe an others testimony, possibly witnessing a Church ceremony, or possibly witnessing an others behaviors and works and believing they are for the Glory of God.

SO WHO is known to BE Converted/Saved, is rather Limited.

However those WHO ARE, ARE SAVED ONCE AND FOREVER....LESS YOU THINK the Lord a Liar.

 

[Taken]

It's even funnier how YOU keep insisting that a man is "saved forever" once he is converted - but yo haven't been able to show me ANY Scripture to back it up.

You have been told and shown Several verses. NOT up to me to UNDERSTAND FOR YOU what Forever means, shall not parish means, nothing can separate a Converted man and God means.....

Now, THAT'S hilarious . . .

I find your utter lack of understanding, sadly funny.

The Bible NEVER says that a man can't leap out of His hand by his own accord.

Your testimony of Catholics "filling in teaching that IS NOT Scriptural" seems to have been well received by you.....To bad your fantasy claims ... as you have SAID ... men CAN reject their Salvation AFTER having RECEIVED IT, is NOT in Scripture, thus you have NO valid Basis that it is the Word of God, and should have noticed it has been repeatedly Rejected.

In fact, it says several times that this IS possible and WARNS of it.

No, Scripture DOES NOT WARN Converted men of Losing Salvation.

Scriptural repeatedly WARNS men WHO DO NOT "ACCEPT" the Lords Gift of Salvation...that the Gift SHALL become LOST to Them.

Not rocket science, the Lord OFFERS the Gift of Salvation to ALL MEN...

Gee, IF THEY DO NOT ACCEPT THE OFFER...
Duh...they LOSE the OFFERED GIFT!

It simply says that no man can pluck him out of God's hand.

You want to play around with the Word of God? That's you. NO MAN can cause the effect of BEING IN the Lords hand and then NOT being IN the Lords hand.

The Church has ALWAYS taught that we stay faithful by HIS power.

So? You proclaim yourself a Teacher of "YOUR" Church....While teaching YOU wait until YOUR ENDING, and IF YOU COOPERATED with God, THEN shall you receive Salvation. Sort of puts a damper on you Being a teacher of Your Church....
Since you put Receiving Salvation squarely ON YOUR behavior, "YOUR Cooperation", till the end of your life.

What YOUR sect has failed to teach YOU is that unless we cooperate with that power - we can't stay faithful.

Thank you for reiterating...IT"S ALL YOU...

Sorry dude...a Converted man IS KEPT IN Faithfullness...BY the Lords INDWELLING POWER......NOT YOU!

NOWHERE does the Bible teach in context that we don't have a completely FREE WILL.

So? Who said you didn't? LOL

The little god YOU'VE invented for yourself, however, forces you to do his will.

Ah, the Catholic MO coming out....Make false claims....in hope it makes you appear right.

It's a FAIL.

Then, apparently, you don't watch the news.
Kids are constantly getting into trouble for praying on campus - and adults are prohibited from displaying or sharing anything about God in the workplace.

Not only do your reveal you have little understanding of Scripture, but I see the lack of understanding also flows over into understanding Legal jargon, and the Law.

No matter and a waste of time to explain it to you....as even common sense escapes you.

And YOUR sect lied to you when they told you that we don't have a free will to choose and later reject God.

Ya, ya, sure, sure....so apparently you were taught God can be FOOLED and ACCEPT and CONVERT men and those same men can SHAME HIM and toss His gift of Conversion back in His face.......To bad you are ill educated....God is NOT FOOLED, He knows ALL THINGS.

You've been regurgitating the same lie on multiple threads that God "keeps" us faithful - and there is NOTHING we can do about it.

Not frauds, such as yourself, and your teaching. God KEEPS those who make a TRUE Heartfelt Confession, calling on Him to Convert them.

Not as you have claimed, when the supposed Confession was made FOR YOU, without your knowledge. And your claiming your were BORN AGAIN, without your knowledge, and now supposedly "it on you to cooperate" so you can in your ending BECOME Saved.

Pretty sure you are not a Hebrew or Jew...but yet you are taught to Follow their Traditions...
Weird.

NOW, you're trying to tell me that you make "Freewill choices"??

Sure I do.

If I look up "Hypocrisy" in the dictionary - am I going to see your picture - or just your name?

Why don't you try it and then reveal your findings? LOL

It doesn't take anybody else for you to jump out of God's hand.

LOL...Why not stop peddling your nonsense, and SHOW ANY SCRIPTURE that says that is POSSIBLE.

Nobody has the power to pull you away from Him.

It NEVER says that YOU can't leave Him on your own.

Perhaps you missed the Lesson...GREATER is he THAT "IS IN a CONVERTED" man than ANY man in the world...

So Jumping Jack...do tell HOW when you are teaching Catholic children....they CAN be Converted AND then Reject God....HOW does their POWER BECOME GREATER than Gods POWER to JUMP OUT OF HIS HAND? LOL

I was talking about the fact that God's will is NOT always carried out because man has a free will that sometimes usurps God's will.

Keep talking Jumping Jack...who teaches a MAN IN Christ can supersede the Lords Power and JUMP out of His hand....which IS IN DIRECT Opposition of His Teaching.

1 Tim. 2:4 tells us that God WILLS the salvation of ALL men and that ALL come to a knowledge of the truth.

Yep that is true.

Will ALL be saved?
NOPE.

No one said ALL will be saved.
Your argument is THOSE WHO ARE SAVED can LOSE their Salvation....which is false.

The men WHO SHALL LOSE their Salvation are the men WHO, During their physical natural (blood) life, ELECTED TO NOT Accept His Gift of Salvation.

 

[Taken]

It's even funnier .....

What is NOT FUNNY is in post #288

You have entered YOUR RESPONSE, quoted as MY WORDS...

I asked what exactly a man supposedly changes, (so he can jump out of Gods Hand), His mind....

And YOUR response was yup, he changes his mind AND Heart

Yet another Lack of Understanding on your part revealed.

A sinful man calling on the Lord....to become Converted....

DO NOT DO SO WiTH THE THOUGHTS OF HIS MIND!

Less you are also ILL educated, in that the Carnal Mind is AGAINST GOD....

LOL...seriously, you think the Lord cares what a Carnal Mind has to say?

It with with the man thoughts of HIS HEART, that a man Confesses and calls on the Lord!!

Elementary knowledge.

And Part of the CONVERSION, entails the man RECEIVING A "NEW HEART"....

Guess you never LEARNED the OLD HEART IS DEAD!!

So your theory ... AFTER Conversion a man can REJECT Gods Conversion....

He does so with a MIND, that NEVER submitted to Him....and a Heart that is now dead....

And this NON submitted MIND and DEAD Heart you claim becomes Changed by the Freewill of a man....

LOL....How do you fall for such utter nonsense?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Who "Knows" Who Is saved...iS
1) specific persons identified in Scripture
2) individual persons themselves who heartfully became Converted
3) The Lord God Himself

Others have "indications", such as TRUSTING to believe an others testimony, possibly witnessing a Church ceremony, or possibly witnessing an others behaviors and works and believing they are for the Glory of God.

SO WHO is known to BE Converted/Saved, is rather Limited.

However those WHO ARE, ARE SAVED ONCE AND FOREVER....LESS YOU THINK the Lord a Liar.

And there you go again meddling where you weren't included. I say this because your answer is irrelevant.

I was responding to Rollo's post #269, where he said:
"Kids are getting saved, so you tell me"

I then asked him HOW he would know WHO is saved and WHO isn't.
According to YOUR post above - I was right and Rollo was wrong.

 

[BreadOfLife]

What is NOT FUNNY is in post #288

You have entered YOUR RESPONSE, quoted as MY WORDS...

I asked what exactly a man supposedly changes, (so he can jump out of Gods Hand), His mind....



Yet another Lack of Understanding on your part revealed.
A sinful man calling on the Lord....to become Converted....
DO NOT DO SO WiTH THE THOUGHTS OF HIS MIND!
Less you are also ILL educated, in that the Carnal Mind is AGAINST GOD....
LOL...seriously, you think the Lord cares what a Carnal Mind has to say?
It with with the man thoughts of HIS HEART, that a man Confesses and calls on the Lord!!
Elementary knowledge.
And Part of the CONVERSION, entails the man RECEIVING A "NEW HEART"....
Guess you never LEARNED the OLD HEART IS DEAD!!
So your theory ... AFTER Conversion a man can REJECT Gods Conversion....
He does so with a MIND, that NEVER submitted to Him....and a Heart that is now dead....
And this NON submitted MIND and DEAD Heart you claim becomes Changed by the Freewill of a man....
LOL....How do you fall for such utter nonsense?

Actually - "utter nonsense" is YOUR position that God forces His love on us and strips us of our free will.

Now THAT'S utter nonsense . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You have been told and shown Several verses. NOT up to me to UNDERSTAND FOR YOU what Forever means, shall not parish means, nothing can separate a Converted man and God means.....

I find your utter lack of understanding, sadly funny.
Your testimony of Catholics "filling in teaching that IS NOT Scriptural" seems to have been well received by you.....To bad your fantasy claims ... as you have SAID ... men CAN reject their Salvation AFTER having RECEIVED IT, is NOT in Scripture, thus you have NO valid Basis that it is the Word of God, and should have noticed it has been repeatedly Rejected.

No, Scripture DOES NOT WARN Converted men of Losing Salvation.

Scriptural repeatedly WARNS men WHO DO NOT "ACCEPT" the Lords Gift of Salvation...that the Gift SHALL become LOST to Them.

Not rocket science, the Lord OFFERS the Gift of Salvation to ALL MEN...

Gee, IF THEY DO NOT ACCEPT THE OFFER...
Duh...they LOSE the OFFERED GIFT!

You want to play around with the Word of God? That's you. NO MAN can cause the effect of BEING IN the Lords hand and then NOT being IN the Lords hand.

So? You proclaim yourself a Teacher of "YOUR" Church....While teaching YOU wait until YOUR ENDING, and IF YOU COOPERATED with God, THEN shall you receive Salvation. Sort of puts a damper on you Being a teacher of Your Church....
Since you put Receiving Salvation squarely ON YOUR behavior, "YOUR Cooperation", till the end of your life.

Thank you for reiterating...IT"S ALL YOU...

Sorry dude...a Converted man IS KEPT IN Faithfullness...BY the Lords INDWELLING POWER......NOT YOU!

So? Who said you didn't? LOL

Ah, the Catholic MO coming out....Make false claims....in hope it makes you appear right.

It's a FAIL.
Not only do your reveal you have little understanding of Scripture, but I see the lack of understanding also flows over into understanding Legal jargon, and the Law.

No matter and a waste of time to explain it to you....as even common sense escapes you.
Ya, ya, sure, sure....so apparently you were taught God can be FOOLED and ACCEPT and CONVERT men and those same men can SHAME HIM and toss His gift of Conversion back in His face.......To bad you are ill educated....God is NOT FOOLED, He knows ALL THINGS.

Not frauds, such as yourself, and your teaching. God KEEPS those who make a TRUE Heartfelt Confession, calling on Him to Convert them.

Not as you have claimed, when the supposed Confession was made FOR YOU, without your knowledge. And your claiming your were BORN AGAIN, without your knowledge, and now supposedly "it on you to cooperate" so you can in your ending BECOME Saved.

Pretty sure you are not a Hebrew or Jew...but yet you are taught to Follow their Traditions...
Weird.

Sure I do.
Why don't you try it and then reveal your findings? LOL

LOL...Why not stop peddling your nonsense, and SHOW ANY SCRIPTURE that says that is POSSIBLE.
Perhaps you missed the Lesson...GREATER is he THAT "IS IN a CONVERTED" man than ANY man in the world...

So Jumping Jack...do tell HOW when you are teaching Catholic children....they CAN be Converted AND then Reject God....HOW does their POWER BECOME GREATER than Gods POWER to JUMP OUT OF HIS HAND? LOL
Keep talking Jumping Jack...who teaches a MAN IN Christ can supersede the Lords Power and JUMP out of His hand....which IS IN DIRECT Opposition of His Teaching.

Yep that is true.

No one said ALL will be saved.
Your argument is THOSE WHO ARE SAVED can LOSE their Salvation....which is false.

The men WHO SHALL LOSE their Salvation are the men WHO, During their physical natural (blood) life, ELECTED TO NOT Accept His Gift of Salvation.

And there you go AGAIN - vomiting out another LONG-winded diatribe without ANY Scripture to back up your phony, man-made OSAS position. God isn't a monster who forces His love on us - no matter what YOU and Calvin erroneously believe.

Until you can get past the following passages - which you have YET to do - you cannot claim OSAS as "Scriptural". It is simply another man-made Protestant fairy tale . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the born agan believers not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition for born-again believers to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot "blot out" a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God "take away" somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about born again CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

 

[Helen]

BOL...Writing to "Taken" . :-

It's even funnier how YOU keep insisting that a man is "saved forever" once he is converted - but yo haven't been able to show me ANY Scripture to back it up.

Now, THAT'S hilarious . . .

IMO The great divide comes when people do not understand that once saved, we are saved..we have come to..the living God through Jesus Christ and been 'accepted in the Beloved.' A legal transaction. A gift of eternal life.

But if the person backslides , fails, falls..turns. He is not out of the Legal transaction...but he is out of inheriting the birthright of a son.
He is in the Kingdom , but he does not inherit the Kingdom as the son's and overcomers do Rev 3.

Saved is saved is saved...but the fullness of the inheritance is another story..that can be lost, but salvation...never.

That is what I read and see in the scriptures.
I also believe that is where all the arguments stem from....people talking about two different things. So how can they possibly agree!!!

..........H

 

[BreadOfLife]

BOL...Writing to "Taken" . :-

IMO The great divide comes when people do not understand that once saved, we are saved..we have come to..the living God through Jesus Christ and been 'accepted in the Beloved.' A legal transaction. A gift of eternal life.

But if the person backslides , fails, falls..turns. He is not out of the Legal transaction...but he is out of inheriting the birthright of a son.
He is in the Kingdom , but he does not inherit the Kingdom as the son's and overcomers do Rev 3.

Saved is saved is saved...but the fullness of the inheritance is another story..that can be lost, but salvation...never.

That is what I read and see in the scriptures.
I also believe that is where all the arguments stem from....people talking about two different things. So how can they possibly agree!!!

..........H

Then, you'll have to show me where the Scriptures teach this.

In context - the Scriptures teach that salvation is a process. We are initially saved when we come to faith.
HOWEVER, because faith is a marriage of belief + obedience - that faith can either be strengthened - or LOST.

Our struggle with sin and our perseverance because of God's grace and our cooperation with that grace is the NEXT phase of our salvation.

Finally - because we have remained faithful to the end - or came to faith AT the end -= we are saved forever.

It's ALL due to God's grace - but is put into motion by our cooperation.

 

[Helen]

BOL

Rom 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:..."

Rom 5: 18 "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. "

 

[BobRyan]

The Bible never warns us to avoid something that would be impossible to do in the first place. So no fake news in the Bible... no false warnings. So then we get to take it all seriously.