CAN WE FALL AWAY ?

[Jay Ross]

@H. Richard

It seems that you have a message that you believe is all sorted out and that others need to hear. As such you are talking at people and are being judgemental of people at the same time.

You posted that after a fellow worker came to you for advice, that within a week of receiving that advice he had killed himself. What did you learn from that experience? Did you question your words that you spoke to that fellow worker and evaluate their validity within the circumstances of that conversation?

The sketchiness of your comments about that conversation between you both does not allow me to judge whether or not you had acted appropriately in those circumstances. That is God's only to judge.

Did your fellow worker who you spoke with see your heart for God and you heart towards him as well?

It is God's heart for people that draws people into His loving embrace? We are a fleeting sample of God's heart for people to see God's Love for them through us.

May God continue to draw you into His Loving Embrace so that you are secure in His love for yourself and that He can also use you to be a true witness of His Love for others with whom you rub shoulders with on a daily basis as you pass in the night so to speak. That they can see the safety of the light that shine forth from you.

Shalom

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

***
Nor can I help you any more than what the scriptures say. You don't understand them but you think you do.

If it is the way you say then why did Jesus die on the cross? All He needed to do was to give the Jews the power to not sin in the flesh like you claim He has done for you.

Sorry but your claim of power not to sin is just like those who preach talking in tongues and handling snakes. It is all works of walking in the flesh.

Lets look at the word self righteous. It means to claim you are not sinning when you are. The Pharisee was self righteous because he thought he did not sin like the tax collector and you think you do not sin because you have been given the power not to sin. Those that claim the power to not sin are taking away the only power that has any power, the blood of Jesus on the cross.

All I seem to be hearing from you is that it is okay to sin however and how many you want. That you do not need to resist the devil, and you do not take any of Jesus's warnings nor exhortations in looking to Him for help in living that life of repentance WITH Him.

It's like you you are ignoring everything Jesus says about discipleship; it is like you do not look to Him for help for anything.

The power not to sin is not of my flesh; it is not by looking to me doing the best I can but relying on Him all the time not to sin.

Remember the prater Jesus had taught us? Forgive us of our debts as we forgive others indebted to us; LEAD US NOT INTO TEMPTATION BUT DELIVER US FROM THE EVIL ONE.... FOR THINE IS THINE IS THE KINGDOM, THE POWER, AND THE GLORY FOREVER.

So whenever we sin, we confess our sins AND we can ask Him for help not to commit that sin again. Now don't even try to act like there is no power given to believers to do that when He is the One doing it when we trust Him to lead us away from temptation so we don't sin again!!!

And if you do not see the power in God to help us not to sin there....

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

So knock it off, brother. You are not reading His words right as if you cannot resist temptation or the devil when YOU have Him in you so you can. I am not asking you to do the best you can. I am asking you to trust Him as your Good Shepherd to help you NOT to sin.

You keep on reading religious stuff into my posts and His words, and you are blind because all you see is religious stuff in everything.

Religion is what man can do. The faith in christianity is about what Jesus Christ in us can do when we trust Him to help us to follow Him.

So TRUST Him today.

James 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. 7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.


For all believers reading this post that hears; pray for this brother that the Lord will wake him up of what it means that Jesus Christ in Him for he has power to live as the sons of God by the grace of God and His help. Pray for him because he does not believe Christ will help him not to sin by laying aside every weight or provision for the flesh, casting down wicked thoughts, and think on good things, and leading him away from temptations and deliver him from the evil one by resisting the devil when that devil comes.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[H. Richard]

All I seem to be hearing from you is that it is okay to sin

So when I say that Jesus has saved me even though in the flesh I am sinful I am saying it is okay to sin and I like to sin. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!

I have NEVER said it is okay to sin. Just because I understand I am sinful in the flesh does not mean I like it. It means I understand how sinful it is and need Jesus' shed blood to pay for my sins. The Law of Moses has shown me how sinful I, and all of mankind, is. So it has lead me to Jesus' work on the cross.

But I understand where what you said comes from. You are on your ivory tower looking down on anyone who admits they sin in the flesh and you assume you are greater than those that sin. Maybe you should understand that you are not the judge. God is.

I still want to know which one you identify with; The Pharisee or the tax collector in case I get it wrong. To me the self righteous is the Pharisee that thinks he does NOT sin any longer and God should bless him for his works.

You, and your teaching of God making you sinless is the reason I posted the event in "A Tragic Story." Your idea shuts the door on those that have come to the knowledge that they are sinful and are seeking God's help. God's help is the cross. Your help is to be self righteous.

Your quotes from the book of James is not valied in this age of Grace because it was written to the Jews only (James 1:1)

 

[BreadOfLife]

BOL yes, the believer is the salt by himself/herself. I never said the gospel is the salt or light. The instruments of God's purpose, the believer, is tested (purity of salt, even of light) by exercising his/her mouth and hands, spreading the good news! That's when we know if their salt is true (near pure) or not and by the unbelievers reaction to the message. You have heard the expression 'they are worth their salt.'..that's where is originally comes from, this part of scripture.

Now no believer is 100% pure salt, we are not perfect. Although the scripture is saying we better be as pure to be effective in bring in new converts. Some believers are more effective than others. You said spoiled salt is useless and good for nothing. YOu have the meaning all wrong. The unbeliever treated it as good for nothing, and is not effective for their gain -it is worthless to them, not that God has trashed the believer and sentence him/her death. That is a warped view.

I really think you look at this again, because BOL....you are wrong on your view. You keep saying things like rubbish, like to this topic, but you at the same time cannot provide any useful reasoning for your stance. Why is that? No one including myself can take you seriously, and that you really believe what you say. By now you must have gotten this message?

Bless you,

APAK

I called your position "Rubbish" because is IS rubbish - and I proved it with Scripture.
The Gospel is NOT the salt - it is the follower of Christ who is the salt.

You claim that you never said this but here it is in your OWN words from post #353:
"The salt or the true gospel is compromised and is no good for saving anyone."

The bottom line here is that this verse (Matt. 5:13) smashes the false doctrine of OSAS to bits.
If salt represents a TRUE believer and it can LOSE its flavor - then OSAS is just another man-made fantasy . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

@BreadOfLife and @GodsGrace

(Rom 11:22) " Behold then the goodness and severity of God: Towards those that fell, severity; but toward you, God's goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also shall be cut off. "

The Hebrews/ Israelite branches that were cut off and those grafted in 'the tree' from other nations was based purely on belief and unbelief. Under grace, those (either Israelite or non-Israelite) that have belief, the true believers, always abide in Christ and in God’s goodness and blessings. They are always in ‘the tree.’ They continue in God’s goodness.

Paul is not trying to teach those who are saved, that they can lose their salvation. He is teaching that those who are saved should always remember they are saved and kept, by trusting in God. As a believer is always kept in goodness because of God, always busy working within them.

The professing believer that is not a true believer will surely be cut-off from life for their true unbelief or fake belief, as they really do not trust God to salvation. They have no spirit of God to keep them.



Now either of you will say no, that verse 22 is all about loss of salvation.

And you must know why you will keep saying this: For two critical reasons: It is because your religious bias and beliefs have your point of entry into salvation differently as scripture suggests, and secondly, you also do not believe you can have a personal relationship with Christ and God outside, or independent of your organized ‘church.’ You might even believe they are the same thing.

Scripture says we all must come to Christ individually when we can hear the gospel first, and that means it is impossible as an infant. At the age of reason and accountability.

Scripture says, we must give our hearts to God and Christ at some point in our lives, as an event in time. It must be a heart changing event where we know we have an additional spirit working within us henceforth, transforming us from within to a likeness of Christ. It may some time to realize this event occurred for some.

Salvation is not acquired by just obeying rules and procedures based on our ‘church faith’ or dogmas. That is the way of a professing ‘Christian.’

So, when a believer says he abides in Christ and the blessings of God, they truly mean it. They live it every day.

The professing believer will not understand or even belief these words for a permanent state of salvation. They can only use their natural mind to reason or rationalize that this salvation is always relative and unsecure because of the evil mind of men and free-will– cannot be trusted. They lack the spirit of God within them that makes ALL the difference.
Bless you,
APAK

Wrong.

Rom. 11:22 is NOT speaking to Jews - but to GENTILES.
It simply shows an example of what being "cut-off' meant regarding a disbelieving Jew.
HOWEVER - the key phrase in this verse is "you ALSO" . . .
Rom 11:22
"Behold then the goodness and severity of God: Towards those that fell, severity; but toward you, God's goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise YOU ALSO shall be cut off."

"You also" means that this will ALSO happen to YOU.

 

[H. Richard]

So knock it off, brother. You are not reading His words right as if you cannot resist temptation or the devil when YOU have Him in you so you can. I am not asking you to do the best you can. I am asking you to trust Him as your Good Shepherd to help you NOT to sin.

You keep on reading religious stuff into my posts and His words, and you are blind because all you see is religious stuff in everything.

Religion is what man can do. The faith in christianity is about what Jesus Christ in us can do when we trust Him to help us to follow Him.

You knock it off. The gospel is not that Jesus will keep you from sinning. It is that He has paid for your sins of the flesh and all that is required is for a person to place their belief, faith, trust, and confidence in that fact. NO CHILD OF GOD WANTS TO SIN, but they know that their body is sinful and they need Jesus to save them.

I once saw a painting in a church that was showing the rapture. In it there were shadowy figures going up and they were coming from everywhere but the local tavern. The painter was judging that there were not any children of God in a tavern. In other words the painter was the judge of who goes up.

In your belief system that Jesus keeps you from sinning in the flesh do you mean He keeps you from committing all sins of the flesh. Be careful in you answer. If you say all sins then you are claiming you are sinless in the flesh and the scriptures do not support that. If you say only some sins then, in your opinion, He is limited in how much He can do to keep you from sinning. Then it boils down to the fact that it is your work of not sinning that you are claiming. That is being self righteous.

I know we will not be able to see each other's view point so I will save you and myself a lot of unnecessy work by ending my replies to you about your ideas.

I will give you the last word because I know you will take it.

 

[APAK]

I called your position "Rubbish" because is IS rubbish - and I proved it with Scripture.
The Gospel is NOT the salt - it is the follower of Christ who is the salt.

You claim that you never said this but here it is in your OWN words from post #353:
"The salt or the true gospel is compromised and is no good for saving anyone."

The bottom line here is that this verse (Matt. 5:13) smashes the false doctrine of OSAS to bits.
If salt represents a TRUE believer and it can LOSE its flavor - then OSAS is just another man-made fantasy . . .

BOL...

See #430 please, I see why you can be confused in what I said...this is what I said to GodsGrace….she had the same take

-----------------------------

"I believe you are getting hung on the expression when I say, "The salt or the true gospel is compromised and is no good for saving anyone." It means the believer (salt) produces a spoiled or impure result - the gospel. Both are spoiled.

So just for you because you are looking to argue out of ignorance again, I will given you an elementary form of this expression as two sentences.

The salt or the believer is compromised and is no good for anyone. The true gospel is thus compromised and is no good for anyone.

Do you see the intimate connection? The true gospel is dependent on the believer and he/she needs to be effective and thus very salty if you will.

Again, for the last time: The salt = the believer I never changed my mind."

------------------------------------

enough said of that I would say?

I do want to THANK YOU for giving me a 'like' on a post today that must have been deserved.....I did not see that coming...thank you very much...means a lot to me coming especially yourself....

Bless you

APAK

 

[H. Richard]

@H. Richard

It seems that you have a message that you believe is all sorted out and that others need to hear. As such you are talking at people and are being judgemental of people at the same time.

You posted that after a fellow worker came to you for advice, that within a week of receiving that advice he had killed himself. What did you learn from that experience? Did you question your words that you spoke to that fellow worker and evaluate their validity within the circumstances of that conversation?

The sketchiness of your comments about that conversation between you both does not allow me to judge whether or not you had acted appropriately in those circumstances. That is God's only to judge.

Did your fellow worker who you spoke with see your heart for God and you heart towards him as well?

It is God's heart for people that draws people into His loving embrace? We are a fleeting sample of God's heart for people to see God's Love for them through us.

May God continue to draw you into His Loving Embrace so that you are secure in His love for yourself and that He can also use you to be a true witness of His Love for others with whom you rub shoulders with on a daily basis as you pass in the night so to speak. That they can see the safety of the light that shine forth from you.

Shalom

LOL

I told you what I said. Since you disapprove tell me what you would have said or do you just want to talk about me.

You said "It seems that you have a message that you believe is all sorted out and that others need to hear. As such you are talking at people and are being judgemental of people at the same time.

Aren't you are being judgmental at me? I was talking """about"", not at, an event.

I see nothing in your reply that adds to the subject. You have made ""ME"" the subject of your reply and lost a potential friend.

 

[Nancy]

All I seem to be hearing from you is that it is okay to sin however and how many you want. That you do not need to resist the devil, and you do not take any of Jesus's warnings nor exhortations in looking to Him for help in living that life of repentance WITH Him.

It's like you you are ignoring everything Jesus says about discipleship; it is like you do not look to Him for help for anything.

The power not to sin is not of my flesh; it is not by looking to me doing the best I can but relying on Him all the time not to sin.

Remember the prater Jesus had taught us? Forgive us of our debts as we forgive others indebted to us; LEAD US NOT INTO TEMPTATION BUT DELIVER US FROM THE EVIL ONE.... FOR THINE IS THINE IS THE KINGDOM, THE POWER, AND THE GLORY FOREVER.

So whenever we sin, we confess our sins AND we can ask Him for help not to commit that sin again. Now don't even try to act like there is no power given to believers to do that when He is the One doing it when we trust Him to lead us away from temptation so we don't sin again!!!

And if you do not see the power in God to help us not to sin there....

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

So knock it off, brother. You are not reading His words right as if you cannot resist temptation or the devil when YOU have Him in you so you can. I am not asking you to do the best you can. I am asking you to trust Him as your Good Shepherd to help you NOT to sin.

You keep on reading religious stuff into my posts and His words, and you are blind because all you see is religious stuff in everything.

Religion is what man can do. The faith in christianity is about what Jesus Christ in us can do when we trust Him to help us to follow Him.

So TRUST Him today.

James 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. 7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.


For all believers reading this post that hears; pray for this brother that the Lord will wake him up of what it means that Jesus Christ in Him for he has power to live as the sons of God by the grace of God and His help. Pray for him because he does not believe Christ will help him not to sin by laying aside every weight or provision for the flesh, casting down wicked thoughts, and think on good things, and leading him away from temptations and deliver him from the evil one by resisting the devil when that devil comes.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.



My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
In 1 John 3:9, the Greek present infinitive means to habitually sin without compunction. In more practical terms (to offer an example), it is one thing for a Christian to slip up and commit an act of sexual immorality for which he or she is penitent. It is altogether another thing for a person to live as a prostitute and claim to be “having fellowship with the Father” (1 John 1:6).

"In 1 John 3:9, the Greek present infinitive means to habitually sin without compunction. In more practical terms (to offer an example), it is one thing for a Christian to slip up and commit an act of sexual immorality for which he or she is penitent. It is altogether another thing for a person to live as a prostitute and claim to be “having fellowship with the Father” (1 John 1:6).

Therefore, it is easily shown that no discrepancies exist between the verses under discussion in 1 John. Furthermore, it is refreshing to know that when a Christian does sin, “we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.”

There IS a difference in living in sin and falling in sin

 

[BreadOfLife]

Again, misinterpretation of Scripture.
Even the romanists wouldn't teach you those interpretations.

Then, by ALL means - refute those interpretations, Einstein . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I doubt you will be open to correction, but the Lord may surprise me.

The knowledge of the truth is that there no longer remains sacrifice for sins. It is that willful sin in spite of having that knowledge of the truth for which God will judge His people by for treating the Son's blood of the New Covenant to be on par with the blood of goats and bulls that we need receiving that one time sacrifice for sins "again"... even in an unbloody manner.

That means God will be judging all participants of the Mass unless they repent and only do communion in remembrance of Him like He said to do plainly.

WRONG.

The Greek word for "Knowledge" that is used here means a "FULL and EXPERIENTIAL" knowledge. It is a relationship of FAITH - not just an intellectual knowledge. The word is "EPIGNOSIS" - not gnosis or oida which indicate a simple intellectual familiarity.

This passage is about born again, converted believers who can LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

So when I say that Jesus has saved me even though in the flesh I am sinful I am saying it is okay to sin and I like to sin. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!

You argue against me as if you are saying this without actually saying it.

I never said once that I can never sin in this life as a believer down here; I shared His words for why we can rely on Him not to sin again. It is possible by Jesus Christ to not sin a particular sin again; especially those sins listed in Galatians as the works of the flesh that has dire consequences.

I have NEVER said it is okay to sin. Just because I understand I am sinful in the flesh does not mean I like it. It means I understand how sinful it is and need Jesus' shed blood to pay for my sins. The Law of Moses has shown me how sinful I, and all of mankind, is. So it has lead me to Jesus' work on the cross.

But I understand where what you said comes from. You are on your ivory tower looking down on anyone who admits they sin in the flesh and you assume you are greater than those that sin. Maybe you should understand that you are not the judge. God is.

God has set plenty of warnings about what we sow towards; the works of the flesh or the fruits of the Spirit as He is not mocked. Judgment is coming on the House of God first. 1 Peter 4:17-19 Jesus warnings in Luke 12:40-49 is not about eternal salvation, but escaping the fire coming on the earth for why running that race by faith in Him comes in helping us lay aside every weight & sin in how we live that reconciled relationship with God.

I still want to know which one you identify with; The Pharisee or the tax collector in case I get it wrong. To me the self righteous is the Pharisee that thinks he does NOT sin any longer and God should bless him for his works.

So are you saying that once a believer commits fornication, that it is impossible for God to help him not to sin that sin again? The same thing for a saved believer committing adultery? Think about what you are saying.

You, and your teaching of God making you sinless is the reason I posted the event in "A Tragic Story." Your idea shuts the door on those that have come to the knowledge that they are sinful and are seeking God's help. God's help is the cross. Your help is to be self righteous.

My help is in the Lord. Argue with Him on that point of His work.

1 Corinthians 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. 13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

So do you believe He can lead you away from temptation or not? Do you believe He can provide the escape so you may not sin?

BUT if you do sin...

1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

BUT that does not mean there is no help from Him to not sin that sin again. There is hope in Him for that and I am not going to deny that hope in Him.

Your quotes from the book of James is not valied in this age of Grace because it was written to the Jews only (James 1:1)

There is no separate gospel for the Jews and the Gentiles. James letter to the believing Jews can be applied to the believing Gentiles. James's "faith without works" is applied to those who disrespect the poor as cited at the beginning of James 2nd chapter before the other offense towards the poor by voicing faith in God's Providence to the poor without leading by example to the poor just so they get out of helping the poor.

James's faith without works cannot be applied to the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Many believers are not reading that verse in context ro what James was talking about which was the faith in God's providence needs to be led by example by those who profess it, otherwise, the church's faith will not profit the poor nor save the poor when the church is failing to lead by example of their faith in God's Providence.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

You knock it off. The gospel is not that Jesus will keep you from sinning. It is that He has paid for your sins of the flesh and all that is required is for a person to place their belief, faith, trust, and confidence in that fact. NO CHILD OF GOD WANTS TO SIN, but they know that their body is sinful and they need Jesus to save them.

I was not talking about the gospel and you know it. I was talking about LIVING that reconciled relationship with God by faith in Jesus Christ as He will help me to follow Him and that includes His help to avoid temptations to sin and if I do sin, He will forgive me, BUT I will be asking Him to help me not to do that again.

I once saw a painting in a church that was showing the rapture. In it there were shadowy figures going up and they were coming from everywhere but the local tavern. The painter was judging that there were not any children of God in a tavern. In other words the painter was the judge of who goes up.

Peter has given a lot of warnings in 2 Peter 3 rd chapter for how we are to love our lives of we wish to escape God's judgment coming on the earth.

In your belief system that Jesus keeps you from sinning in the flesh do you mean He keeps you from committing all sins of the flesh.

That is my hope in Him for as my Good Shepherd, or how do you think He is going about this in being our Good Shepherd?

Be careful in you answer. If you say all sins then you are claiming you are sinless in the flesh and the scriptures do not support that. If you say only some sins then, in your opinion, He is limited in how much He can do to keep you from sinning. Then it boils down to the fact that it is your work of not sinning that you are claiming. That is being self righteous.

Never said that I am sinless nor did I say that I am incapable of sinning again. That would be talking about me. I am talking about my hope in Him in being my Good Shepherd in helping me follow Him by the same grace of God.

I know we will not be able to see each other's view point so I will save you and myself a lot of unnecessy work by ending my replies to you about your ideas.

I will give you the last word because I know you will take it.

I think the problem here is that you are arguing against somebody else because you seem to be seeing that other believer's belief in my words as meaning the same thing I am saying which is not what I have been saying.

Your contentions has been continuous in denying there is any help from the Lord to help us to follow Him so as to not be living in sin any more.

You need to reread my posts and cite the claims that you say I am saying which was never said but only by your assumptions whereas you seem to be ignoring the whole point of my message that God can help us not to sin again so that sin will not have dominion over us, but if we do sin, we can go to Him for the forgiveness of sins AND YET still keep asking Him for help not to sin that sin again. That is a real hope in Him that I shall not deny.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

There IS a difference in living in sin and falling in sin

Feel free to share, sister.

I think I know what you mean, but one can fall into sin and wind up living in sin, even though not every one that fall into sin continues to live in that sin.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

WRONG.

The Greek word for "Knowledge" that is used here means a "FULL and EXPERIENTIAL" knowledge. It is a relationship of FAITH - not just an intellectual knowledge. The word is "EPIGNOSIS" - not gnosis or oida which indicate a simple intellectual familiarity.

This passage is about born again, converted believers who can LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

So where is the joy of your salvation? Why is Jesus Christ the Good News to man if it is only a "maybe" like all other religions are?

 

[Nancy]

Feel free to share, sister.

I think I know what you mean, but one can fall into sin and wind up living in sin, even though not every one that fall into sin continues to live in that sin.

I agree...I thought, folks were saying that a Christian NEVER sins, lol...we learn to hate it, we sin less and less as the Spirit empowers us. Our thoughts need to me under control and renewed. There are times that I have horrible thoughts, things that just flit through your mind that I KNOW I would never think on my own- Satan loves to start in our MINDS. Then we have the sinful thoughts if we think negative and unkind thoughts of a bro or sis in Christ-yes these need to be repented of.
So, it's all good! lol
-nancy

 

[Jay Ross]

LOL

I told you what I said. Since you disapprove tell me what you would have said or do you just want to talk about me.

You said "It seems that you have a message that you believe is all sorted out and that others need to hear. As such you are talking at people and are being judgemental of people at the same time.

Aren't you are being judgmental at me? I was talking """about"", not at, an event.

I see nothing in your reply that adds to the subject. You have made ""ME"" the subject of your reply and lost a potential friend.

Yes, it was a short summary of what you said over a few minutes and would have taken more words than what you shared in your post above.

That was why I said that your reported actions were God's to judge and not mine.

The fellow worker came to you for help and what the fellow worker heard and saw in your responses, he judged and rejected as being no better that the others he had talked with. That was contained in your story, that you told.

Jesus condemned the people who told people what they should do but was contrary to their own practices.

That was why Jesus told us to make disciples of the people we rub shoulders with and to take our disciples on a journey towards theirs and our salvation which is always in our distant future when the book of our good deeds will be opened and they will either condemn or exalt us at that time. As such we need to put into practice what we learn about God's heart for us and the people around us. The process towards our salvation is not something that we can take the "necessary" steps towards, it is a learning process that we must put into practice. We, who claim to be in a deep relationship with Christ, are required to demonstrate this relationship on a daily basis by taking up our own cross to follow Him.

Shalom

 

[Triumph1300]

Jesus condemned the people who told people what they should do but was contrary to their own practices.

Would be nice if you would post that scripture.

 

[Jay Ross]

Would be nice if you would post that scripture.

There are a couple but I cannot find the verse which backs up my example at the moment

Luke 11:39: - Then the Lord said to him, "Now you Pharisees make the outside of the cup and dish clean, but your inward part is full of greed and wickedness.

Matt 16:6: - Jesus said to them, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sad'ducees."

Matt 23:13: - "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in.

 

[Triumph1300]

There are a couple but I cannot find the verse which backs up my example at the moment

Oh, ok.