Can You Be Righteous

[us2are1]

If you have asked God for His Spirit and you walk in that Spirit you are righteous because of Him.
all of the works that you do are His works and not yours. If in deed you are displaying the power of His Spirit as His witness of you.

John 10
25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me.

37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;

1 Corinthians 2
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

Galatians 5

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[jiggyfly]

He may have demonstrated the image and/or process of learning for our benefit but i doubt as God he had to"learn" anything.

Have you looked at the text and found another valid interpretation or is it simply your unfounded opinion?

I am still interested in how you see it Axehead, and hope you respond.

 

[Prentis]

Au contraire mon frere! We are declared righteous by doing righteousness. Grace is a means of doing. So we must not be only hearers but doers. Jesus said...He who hears my words and DOES them is like a man who built on a rock.

Amen!


1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

 

[joshhuntnm]

2 Corinthians 5:21 (NIV)
[sup]21 [/sup]God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[Netchaplain]

The believer has "become the righteousness of God" and therefore walks in righteousness. The righteousness in which we stand and the works of it we perform are Christ-given and Christ-governed because our righteousness is Christ Himself. This is why it is said that, “Christ Jesus . . . is made unto us . . . righteousness” (1 Cor 1:30).

Understanding this doctrine is realizing the difference between righteousness being completed by us or in us, "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us” (Rom 8:4).

 

[Episkopos]

The believer has "become the righteousness of God" and therefore walks in righteousness. The righteousness in which we stand and the works of it we perform are Christ-given and Christ-governed because our righteousness is Christ Himself. This is why it is said that, “Christ Jesus . . . is made unto us . . . righteousness” (1 Cor 1:30).

Understanding this doctrine is realizing the difference between righteousness being completed by us or in us, "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us” (Rom 8:4).

God works through men...A man who does righteousness is deemed righteous. A man who does wickedness is deemed wicked. No science degree is required here.

 

[Netchaplain]

Sorry if I seem too technical but my only intentions are to share truth accurately, not casually.

 

[Episkopos]

Sorry if I seem too technical but my only intentions are to share truth accurately, not casually.

same here!!!

 

[Axehead]

Hi Jiggyfly,

At the same time that Jesus was the WORD, He also loved His Father's Word.

John 14:24 He that loveth me NOT keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

There is a direct correlation between loving Jesus and keeping His sayings and LOVING HIM NOT and NOT KEEPING HIS SAYINGS.

Those that do not love Jesus Christ DO NOT KEEP His Word, which is not His Word but His Father's.

Jesus' obedience was not some legalistic compliance with the Law or keeping a set of rules. He was obedient to His Father's voice. And Jesus' life on earth was not a meticulous and perfect performance of a previously choreographed plan.

Jesus lived by the obedience of faith and we are to live by the obedience of faith. He listened to God through His trials. He listened to His Father through His hardships and through His suffering and He continued to listen to His Father unto death on the cross. Because of His faithfulness and love for His Father's Word, He listened right up until His death and this allowed Him to take our death and invest His life in us.

Heb. 5:8 - "He learned obedience from the things which He suffered"
Phil. 2:8 - "He humbled Himself becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross"
Rom. 5:19 - "through the obedience of the One, the many will be made righteous"

Many people think it was a breeze what Jesus did, but it wasn't. Now, He has given us His Spirit and yet He still tells us in the book of Acts, "...that we must through much tribulation enter into the Kingdom of God". (Acts 14:22)

Now, what is our walk as a follower of Christ?

As Jesus listened under the direction of God's Spirit and we are to listen under the same Spirit. John 10:27 says, "My sheep hear My voice".

We have received grace, BUT WHAT HAVE WE RECEIVED GRACE FOR?

By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: (Romans 1:5)

We have received GRACE for OBEDIENCE to the FAITH.

Rom 16:24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Jesus Christ is the one that has the power to stablish us because He is the power. But does He stablish us without any cooperation on our part? No, we have received grace (Rom 16:24) for the obedience of faith (Rom 16:26).

We are actually listening to and being receptive to His activity in us and then submitting/yielding to His voice. It is a cooperative effort just like it was with Jesus and His Father. The Father was in Jesus (2Cor 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ...) and Jesus was LISTENING to HIS FATHER's Voice.

Relationship with Jesus is organic and often spontaneous. Jesus does not give us a code of procedures for external actions of obedience. The Branch obeys the Vine. To Abide is to OBEY. (Jn. 15:1-11).

Since we are no longer slaves to sin, Christians are FREE TO OBEY. Being set free from SIN, we are now FREE to OBEY ANOTHER.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

In fact, and please make note of this: We are the most FREE when we obey, because then we are MAN as GOD INTENDED.

Axehead

 

[dragonfly]

Hi all,

We are the most FREE when we obey, because then we are MAN as GOD INTENDED.

I would like to put the next emphasis on when we obey, and state that we will not have a real sense of freedom through our obedience, unless we make it a rule to obey God, so that one act of obedience is followed by another act of obedience until obedience is the flow of our life. That is FREEdom.

This freedom to obey, though, stems from Christ's death having made possible for us to be free from the power of sin.

Here is an extract from http://christianbook...and_liberty.htm

'Being made free from sin, having become servants unto righteousness, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end life everlasting. Freedom, Righteousness, Holiness—these are the steps on the way to the coming glory. The more deeply we enter by faith into our liberty, which we have in Christ, the more joyfully and confidently we present our members to God as instruments of righteousness. The God is the Father whose will we delight to do, whose service is perfect liberty. The Redeemer is the Master, to whom love binds us in willing obedience. The liberty is not lawlessness: 'we are delivered from our enemies, that we may serve Him in righteousness and holiness all the days of our life.'[12]

The liberty is the condition of the righteousness; and this again of the holiness. The doing of God's will leads up into that fellowship, that heart sympathy with God Himself, out of which comes that reflection of the Divine Presence, which is Holiness. Being made free from sin, being made the slaves of righteousness and of God, we have our fruit unto holiness, and the end—the fruit of holiness becomes, when ripe, the seed of—everlasting life.'


Going back to the discussion between NetChaplain and Episkopos between posts #16 and #28, there is at least one word missing, which would enable both of you to acknowledge the truth in the other's statements. Without (my) attempting to attribute thoughts to either (poster), let me restate what I think you are both saying.

First of all, through faith in Christ Himself who makes it possible for us to be presented to Father, Christ's righteousness is imputed to us, because we have no acceptable righteousness of our own Isaiah 64:6. From this place of acceptance with God, being now freed from sin to obey Him instead of sin, we begin to walk in the good works which He created for us Eph 2:10, (which by nature must be wholly righteous by His standards having been created by God HImself), and by these acts I both demonstrate His righteousness and thereby show that I have taken His righteousness my own.

(I wonder if this is imparted righteousness - 'imparted' being the word I thought may be missing from the discussion.)

But more than the physical acts of righteousness as they can be observed, by which I show my changed heart towards sin (primarily), I now - from my new heart, and my new spirit - demonstrate the attitudes of God towards others - love - all the fruit of the Spirit - justice and equity.

I agree completely that the righteousness which is expected of Christians, must exceed that of the Pharisees.

 

[Axehead]

That was quite a lot of discussion on my OP of the 1st principle of Righteousness which is SEPARATION (found in Creation) and the 1st principle of Evil which is MIXTURE. Now for the 2nd principles of both Righteousness and Evil.

[background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]God brought forth everything (that was RIGHT,[/background] [background=rgb(255, 235, 144)]RIGHTEOUS[/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]) on the principle of separation.' Remember, we are still talking about small building blocks here. We will see more in the Formation of a Nation. There is more to Righteousness than this principle of separation. [/background]

The 2nd principle of Righteousness is seen in the "Formation of a Nation."

[background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]God said to the descendants of Abraham,[/background]

[background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]'Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then [/background]ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all [background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. Exo 19:5-6[/background]

[background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]God desired to separate a people for Himself who would be formed by His righteousness. [/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]The condition for that formation would be obedience and keeping covenant with Him. This is not unlike today at all. [/background]

1Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

You show forth the praises by walking in Righteousness and Obedience and that is how one distinguishes that they have come out of darkness into light.

The calling out of darkness into light is SEPARATION unto RIGHTEOUSNESS. It is a call to SEPARATION.

[background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]1. The Law as given to Moses became the instrument by which the people entered into covenant, and God’s authority was established over them. [/background]

[background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]2. The commandments as given to Jesus Christ (His Father's Word) have become the instrument by which people enter into the New Covenant and God's authority is established over all New Covenant Believers. ([/background]John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.)

[background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]God’s authority establishes His righteousness. The principle of authority is as important for man today as it was for Moses and Israel. God has not changed, neither has man. [/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]The formation of righteousness comes under authority. This is the second principle of righteousness.[/background]

Those who refuse to come under God's Authority are still walking in unrighteousness and darkness.

[background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]The Law was a revelation of God’s righteousness; in it one can see God’s character. We who are in the New Covenant tend to despise the First Covenant. In doing so we have lost the concept of righteousness. [/background]

[background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]The New Covenant does not do away with the righteousness of the first. Grace does not set aside God’s righteousness. [/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]God’s people must not be lawless people, 'for sin is lawlessness' [/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)](1 John 3:4)[/background]

[background=rgb(250, 250, 250)]Lawlessness rejects authority and becomes[/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)] a door for evil.[/background][background=rgb(250, 250, 250)] Here is the second principle of evil. Lawlessness is contrary to righteousness. [/background]

Summary (so far):

• 1st principle of righteousness – Separation
• 1st principle of evil – Mixture (evil comes thru mixture)

• 2nd principle of righteousness – Authority (formation of righteousness in our lives comes under authority)
• 2nd principle of evil – Lawlessness (lawlessness is contrary to righteousness.

Axehead

Hi all,

[/color]

I would like to put the next emphasis on when we obey, and state that we will not have a real sense of freedom through our obedience, unless we make it a rule to obey God, so that one act of obedience is followed by another act of obedience until obedience is the flow of our life. That is FREEdom.

This freedom to obey, though, stems from Christ's death having made possible for us to be free from the power of sin.

Here is an extract from http://christianbook...and_liberty.htm

'Being made free from sin, having become servants unto righteousness, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end life everlasting. Freedom, Righteousness, Holiness—these are the steps on the way to the coming glory. The more deeply we enter by faith into our liberty, which we have in Christ, the more joyfully and confidently we present our members to God as instruments of righteousness. The God is the Father whose will we delight to do, whose service is perfect liberty. The Redeemer is the Master, to whom love binds us in willing obedience. The liberty is not lawlessness: 'we are delivered from our enemies, that we may serve Him in righteousness and holiness all the days of our life.'[12]

The liberty is the condition of the righteousness; and this again of the holiness. The doing of God's will leads up into that fellowship, that heart sympathy with God Himself, out of which comes that reflection of the Divine Presence, which is Holiness. Being made free from sin, being made the slaves of righteousness and of God, we have our fruit unto holiness, and the end—the fruit of holiness becomes, when ripe, the seed of—everlasting life.'


Going back to the discussion between NetChaplain and Episkopos between posts #16 and #28, there is at least one word missing, which would enable both of you to acknowledge the truth in the other's statements. Without (my) attempting to attribute thoughts to either (poster), let me restate what I think you are both saying.

First of all, through faith in Christ Himself who makes it possible for us to be presented to Father, Christ's righteousness is imputed to us, because we have no acceptable righteousness of our own Isaiah 64:6. From this place of acceptance with God, being now freed from sin to obey Him instead of sin, we begin to walk in the good works which He created for us Eph 2:10, (which by nature must be wholly righteous by His standards having been created by God HImself), and by these acts I both demonstrate His righteousness and thereby show that I have taken His righteousness my own.

(I wonder if this is imparted righteousness - 'imparted' being the word I thought may be missing from the discussion.)

But more than the physical acts of righteousness as they can be observed, by which I show my changed heart towards sin (primarily), I now - from my new heart, and my new spirit - demonstrate the attitudes of God towards others - love - all the fruit of the Spirit - justice and equity.

I agree completely that the righteousness which is expected of Christians, must exceed that of the Pharisees.

Hi dragonfly,

I thought of this verse when I read your excellent post.

John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

We have quite a bit of information in this little verse.

1. Truth is something that one DOES.
2. You will not stay in darkness once you begin DOING TRUTH.
3. If you are NOT DOING TRUTH, you are choosing to remain in DARKNESS.
4. Those who are DOING TRUTH are producing deeds that are manifested, as being wrought in God.
5. Those who are NOT COMING TO THE LIGHT, are producing deeds that are NOT WROUGHT IN GOD.

My, my, my. all this talk about DOING TRUTH.

What is missing in the following verse?

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace came by Jesus Christ. <---------

The way some people talk about the Gospel of Grace you would think that John 1:17 actually says that!

Axehead

 

[Axehead]

In an attempt to establish a Biblical view, let us consider the following:

First, righteousness comes to the sinner as a GIFT. The gift of righteousness is the remission of sin. It is important to know that the remission of sin is not all there is to righteousness: There is a life of righteousness. For "He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross; that we might die to sin and live to righteousness" (1 Peter 2:24). Until one comes to "live to righteousness", he does not know righteousness. For the believer, righteousness is a way of life.

Second, righteousness cannot be transferred from one person to another any more than character can be transferred. Christ is holy and righteous within Himself. Man only becomes righteous as Christ is righteous by "partaking of the diving nature" (2 Peter 1:4). It is His nature to love righteousness and hate wickedness; this is His character. If the believer is holy and righteous, it is by reason of being as partaker of the divine nature and being conformed to His righteousness. Righteousness forms character.

Third, a confession of righteousness does not necessarily make one righteous. Faith is no substitute for repentance. Sin is still sin, and the effects of it are still the same. It is the obedience of faith that brings one into righteousness; not until then does one "live to righteousness". The emphasis must be upon obedience rather than confession. Obedience is the proof of righteousness.

Axehead

 

[dragonfly]

The emphasis must be upon obedience rather than confession. Obedience is the proof of righteousness.

Is not obedience a kind of non-verbal confession?

 

[Axehead]

Is not obedience a kind of non-verbal confession?

In that respect, it sure is. Non-verbal disobedience is another type of non-verbal confession.

In the following scripture, confession is there (they know God), but non-verbally (through their actions) they deny Him (are disobedient). This is a good scripture for buttressing "the emphasis must be on obedience rather than confession".

Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

When I was a new Christian, there was a lot of confession coming from my heart. I thought the Gospel was a very well kept secret since I never heard it in the States. I heard the gospel and got saved in a foreign country. Afterwards, I would stop people on the street just to tell them about the gospel and what happened to me. Confession was certainly there, but works would have to follow or I would have fulfilled Titus 1:16.

Axehead

 

[dragonfly]

Non-verbal disobedience is another type of non-verbal confession.

Here's another group of verses about non-verbal disobedience.


Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] to them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up ...'

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up ...'

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness,

 

[Axehead]

Very good. Thank you for those scriptures, dragonfly.

Let us examine another view of righteousness. Some take the view that one cannot be free from sin, just forgiven. In many places one sees the motto: "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven." The acceptance of imperfection and unrighteousness seems to be the norm for the church. What this motto really says to the world is, "I am a sinner just like you, but I'm forgiven and you are not."


The emphasis is put on forgiveness instead of righteousness.

Many have the attitude of a Christian minister who was in an adulterous relationship; when confronted he responded, "Every night before I go to sleep, I just ask the Lord to forgive me."

Is there more than forgiveness? Is there freedom from sin? Does God require us to obey Him and walk in righteousness? Many respond to these questions by talking about the sin nature within the believer, saying one can never be free from sin because sin will always be in him until he dies. They say the righteousness of Christ in no way changes the carnal nature, neither does the carnal nature affect the divine nature. Here man finds himself in a dualism of confusion and failure. The emphasis is upon "saved in sin" rather than "saved from sin". One finds himself living in a two story house with no connecting stairway. On one floor there can be no sin, but on the other floor there is nothing but sin.

Axehead

 

[jiggyfly]

Is there more than forgiveness?

Axehead

Yes, indeed there is, there is justification. But I think many misunderstand what being justified means.
Merriam-Webster says justify means to prove or show to be just, right, or reasonable.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 3:20-24 (KJV)

 

[Axehead]

Yes, indeed there is, there is justification. But I think many misunderstand what being justified means.
Merriam-Webster says justify means to prove or show to be just, right, or reasonable.

[font=Verdana']20[/font] Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. [font=Verdana']21[/font] But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; [font=Verdana']22[/font] Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: [font=Verdana']23[/font] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; [font=Verdana']24[/font] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 3:20-24 (KJV)

I agree with verse 20. Now, going to the next building block...Is there freedom from sin? Does God require us to obey Him and walk in righteousness?

Is there a Romans 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, etc.

Axehead

 

[dragonfly]

This seems a good place to share this verse.


Proverbs 17:15 He that justifies the wicked, and he that condemns the just, even they both [are] abomination to the LORD.


Romans 3:26 To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


(These two verses capture the depth to which Christ Jesus went for us, and why God has exalted Him so highly.)


Mickelson's (Enhanced Strong's)

justifies (Proverbs 17:15)

H6663 צָּדַק tsadaq (tsaw-dak') v.
1. to be (causatively, make) right (in a moral or forensic sense)
[a primitive root]
KJV: cleanse, clear self, (be, do) just(-ice, -ify, -ify self), (be turn to) righteous(-ness).


just (Romans 3:26)

G1342 δίκaιος dikaios (dik'-ai-os) adj.
1. equitable (in character or act)
2. (by implication) innocent, holy
{absolutely or relatively}
[from G1349]
KJV: just, meet, right(-eous)
Root(s): G1349
Compare: G3741, G40, G2413

 

[jiggyfly]

I agree with verse 20. Now, going to the next building block...Is there freedom from sin? Does God require us to obey Him and walk in righteousness?

Is there a Romans 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, etc.

Axehead

I don't try to fill God's standard for righteous living which is Jesus His Son, I simply yield to that standard to fill me.

My justification with Father is not dependent on my actions, religious doctrines or someone's interpretation of scripture, it rests in His Son's work at the cross. My belief is not built on scripture (though it does indeed to point to it), it is built on the reality of my genuine fellowship with Father and the assurances He gives me personally.