Carried away with their dissimulation

[VictoryinJesus]

I haven’t been studying much lately. One passage though that has stood out is where Paul withstood Cephas to his face. Better to his face then behind his back. In reading over this passage “dissimulation” used in the kjv doesn’t sound nearly as harsh as other versions which use “hypocrisy”.

the reason for this topic is to discuss “hypocrisy” and how it relates to Peter acting one way until other men come in…and then he acts differently. I hadn’t considered until tonight that it had happened before, when Christ was going to be crucified and Peter …for the fear of men denied knowing or having been with Christ.

For prior to the coming of certain men from James he used to eat with the gentiles, but when they came he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof fearing the party of the circumcised. Galatians 2:10-13
…With the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy.

play acting, hypocrisy, stage-playing, dissembling, someone acting under a mask, acting under a feigned part, deceit, condemnation.

to me it is important because there is something there to learn about life. how we can often act under a mask which is deceit? I’m not sure though who is more deceived from acting under a mask …ourselves or others?

 

[Heart2Soul]

I haven’t been studying much lately. One passage though that has stood out is where Paul withstood Cephas to his face. Better to his face then behind his back. In reading over this passage “dissimulation” used in the kjv doesn’t sound nearly as harsh as other versions which use “hypocrisy”.

the reason for this topic is to discuss “hypocrisy” and how it relates to Peter acting one way until other men come in…and then he acts differently. I hadn’t considered until tonight that it had happened before, when Christ was going to be crucified and Peter …for the fear of men denied knowing or having been with Christ.

For prior to the coming of certain men from James he used to eat with the gentiles, but when they came he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof fearing the party of the circumcised. Galatians 2:10-13
…With the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy.

play acting, hypocrisy, stage-playing, dissembling, someone acting under a mask, acting under a feigned part, deceit, condemnation.

to me it is important because there is something there to learn about life. how we can often act under a mask which is deceit? I’m not sure though who is more deceived from acting under a mask …ourselves or others?

Hi ViJ! Good to see you engaging again!
When Jesus was crucified the disciples had not yet been empowered by the Holy Spirit...
I like how this person said it...
First, the Holy Spirit was directly given to the apostles (ten of the twelve) by Jesus on the first evening after the resurrection. You can read this in John 20:22. Thomas was not with the ten (Judas had already hanged himself). So presumably a week later when Jesus visited the eleven, Thomas received he Holy Spirit as the others a week earlier.

Second, there is the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. This came in Acts 2 as Jesus promised in Luke 24:49. After this event, the apostles (and other disciples) never again hid themselves, but boldly proclaimed the Gospel in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and to the utter most parts of the earth (Acts 1:8).

So what Peter lacked was the boldness to face the crowd with faith and confidence in the truth.
And this is how we are as well....until we receive the Holy Spirit we are weak in our flesh...but after we have a spirit of boldness to stand firm in our faith.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Rita]

Hi ViJ! Good to see you engaging again!
When Jesus was crucified the disciples had not yet been empowered by the Holy Spirit...
I like how this person said it...
First, the Holy Spirit was directly given to the apostles (ten of the twelve) by Jesus on the first evening after the resurrection. You can read this in John 20:22. Thomas was not with the ten (Judas had already hanged himself). So presumably a week later when Jesus visited the eleven, Thomas received he Holy Spirit as the others a week earlier.

Second, there is the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. This came in Acts 2 as Jesus promised in Luke 24:49. After this event, the apostles (and other disciples) never again hid themselves, but boldly proclaimed the Gospel in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and to the utter most parts of the earth (Acts 1:8).

So what Peter lacked was the boldness to face the crowd with faith and confidence in the truth.
And this is how we are as well....until we receive the Holy Spirit we are weak in our flesh...but after we have a spirit of boldness to stand firm in our faith.

Hope that makes sense.

Not so sure that is true of all of us, our human weaknesses can still get in the way at times. There are times when I can be bold, but other times I am as timid as a mouse !!!!!!

 

[Rita]

It won’t let me quote the OP …….food for thought, mulling over what you have said. Thank you xx

 

[Robert Gwin]

I haven’t been studying much lately. One passage though that has stood out is where Paul withstood Cephas to his face. Better to his face then behind his back. In reading over this passage “dissimulation” used in the kjv doesn’t sound nearly as harsh as other versions which use “hypocrisy”.

the reason for this topic is to discuss “hypocrisy” and how it relates to Peter acting one way until other men come in…and then he acts differently. I hadn’t considered until tonight that it had happened before, when Christ was going to be crucified and Peter …for the fear of men denied knowing or having been with Christ.

For prior to the coming of certain men from James he used to eat with the gentiles, but when they came he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof fearing the party of the circumcised. Galatians 2:10-13
…With the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy.

play acting, hypocrisy, stage-playing, dissembling, someone acting under a mask, acting under a feigned part, deceit, condemnation.

to me it is important because there is something there to learn about life. how we can often act under a mask which is deceit? I’m not sure though who is more deceived from acting under a mask …ourselves or others?

All Christians are a work in progress Vicky, even the apostles as you see. None of us are above counsel, and at times all of us need it, in this case Peter. To me, hypocrisy is one of the hardest things to take, it is disgusting and in truth disappointing, with one of the quickest ways to form distrust. I have the greatest respect for those of other faiths, who live their faith, but you would be shocked to hear some of the things that people try to get me to do, and who themselves do not practice it. It is very important to do out utmost to live the faith, not necessarily for ourselves, but for the God that we bear the name of.

Peter likely knew that he was doing wrong, but he readily accepted the counsel from Paul and repented of his sin. Paul in reality would have been considered his inferior, and many would have instantly had the haughty attitude of who are you to counsel me. Something else to consider.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Hi ViJ! Good to see you engaging again!

thank you

When Jesus was crucified the disciples had not yet been empowered by the Holy Spirit...
I like how this person said it...
First, the Holy Spirit was directly given to the apostles (ten of the twelve) by Jesus on the first evening after the resurrection. You can read this in John 20:22. Thomas was not with the ten (Judas had already hanged himself). So presumably a week later when Jesus visited the eleven, Thomas received he Holy Spirit as the others a week earlier.

Second, there is the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. This came in Acts 2 as Jesus promised in Luke 24:49. After this event, the apostles (and other disciples) never again hid themselves, but boldly proclaimed the Gospel in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and to the utter most parts of the earth (Acts 1:8).

So what Peter lacked was the boldness to face the crowd with faith and confidence in the truth.
And this is how we are as well....until we receive the Holy Spirit we are weak in our flesh...but after we have a spirit of boldness to stand firm in our faith.

Hope that makes sense.

It makes sense. if I’m not mistaken When Peter denied knowing or having been with Christ was, yes, before being filled by the Holy Spirit. But then afterwards they were bold an example being, but I can’t find it now is of them taking a beating and asking for more boldness. But still Peter fearing the men coming in turns aloof again; not eating with those he was eating with prior to the men coming in. Basically putting on a mask of pretense or play-acting. Here is the part I’m uncertain of…wasn’t this after being filled with the Spirit and their great boldness and asking for more of it?

not to bash Peter or that it matters …except for maybe showing how relatable they all are to our own experiences and things we also go through.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I haven’t been studying much lately. One passage though that has stood out is where Paul withstood Cephas to his face. Better to his face then behind his back. In reading over this passage “dissimulation” used in the kjv doesn’t sound nearly as harsh as other versions which use “hypocrisy”.

the reason for this topic is to discuss “hypocrisy” and how it relates to Peter acting one way until other men come in…and then he acts differently. I hadn’t considered until tonight that it had happened before, when Christ was going to be crucified and Peter …for the fear of men denied knowing or having been with Christ.

For prior to the coming of certain men from James he used to eat with the gentiles, but when they came he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof fearing the party of the circumcised. Galatians 2:10-13
…With the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy.

play acting, hypocrisy, stage-playing, dissembling, someone acting under a mask, acting under a feigned part, deceit, condemnation.

to me it is important because there is something there to learn about life. how we can often act under a mask which is deceit? I’m not sure though who is more deceived from acting under a mask …ourselves or others?

It is called the human nature which though God declared dead, we must die daily to it to live in the spirit. We all can have problems of acting differently with different crowds. Wanting to feel accepted and approved is a strong psychological pull on the human soul. Peter fell prey here as at the trial! God forbid it happens, but when it does, God be praised for 1 John 1:9 and His mercy which never ends!

 

[Heart2Soul]

But still Peter fearing the men coming in turns aloof again; not eating with those he was eating with prior to the men coming in.

Yes...this is where I see spiritual immaturity in him. Until receiving a vision Peter was being ruled by the laws of the Jewish people...after God gave him a vision of all animals are good for food (ad lib) then Peter also understood that neither circumcision nor uncircumsicion mattered one iota to a man's salvation.

 

[farouk]

I haven’t been studying much lately. One passage though that has stood out is where Paul withstood Cephas to his face. Better to his face then behind his back. In reading over this passage “dissimulation” used in the kjv doesn’t sound nearly as harsh as other versions which use “hypocrisy”.

the reason for this topic is to discuss “hypocrisy” and how it relates to Peter acting one way until other men come in…and then he acts differently. I hadn’t considered until tonight that it had happened before, when Christ was going to be crucified and Peter …for the fear of men denied knowing or having been with Christ.

For prior to the coming of certain men from James he used to eat with the gentiles, but when they came he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof fearing the party of the circumcised. Galatians 2:10-13
…With the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy.

play acting, hypocrisy, stage-playing, dissembling, someone acting under a mask, acting under a feigned part, deceit, condemnation.

to me it is important because there is something there to learn about life. how we can often act under a mask which is deceit? I’m not sure though who is more deceived from acting under a mask …ourselves or others?

Hi @VictoryinJesus In the context, the particular context of the dissimulation in question seems to be the attempts to impose law-keeping. Some saw through these attempts; some did not.

 

[farouk]

Yes...this is where I see spiritual immaturity in him. Until receiving a vision Peter was being ruled by the laws of the Jewish people...after God gave him a vision of all animals are good for food (ad lib) then Peter also understood that neither circumcision nor uncircumsicion mattered one iota to a man's salvation.

@Heart2Soul Yes; it really did revolve around an understanding of the transition from Old Testament law-keeping to New Testament Gospel modes of thinking, didn't it?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Hi @VictoryinJesus In the context, the particular context of the dissimulation in question seems to be the attempts to impose law-keeping. Some saw through these attempts; some did not.

I get that but sometimes focusing on one part neglects what else is there to learn from…for me in study, what touched me this day was Peter acting one way and then acting another way when others came in. Which did remind me of his shrinking back when approached about knowing Christ when Christ was going to the crucifix.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I get that but sometimes focusing on one part neglects what else is there to learn from…for me in study, what touched me this day was Peter acting one way and then acting another way when others came in. Which did remind me of his shrinking back when approached about knowing Christ when Christ was going to the crucifix.

Also consider that there was no example of anyone experiencing Christ's crucifixion so this was new territory (so to speak)...and no one there to encourage and support them. They had to walk by blind faith.
I see hypocrisy as those who know what scriptures say to do and don't do it yet expect others to live by it and when they don't they judge them. Those are hypocrits....Peter was more like a person who had no experience or instruction on what to do.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Not so sure that is true of all of us, our human weaknesses can still get in the way at times. There are times when I can be bold, but other times I am as timid as a mouse !!!!!!

I was very shy and afraid to speak up and one day God told me He was going to give me a "Spirit of Boldness " to speak as the Holy Spirit led me....and I haven't ceased having the boldness to share with others what He gives me to speak.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Also consider that there was no example of anyone experiencing Christ's crucifixion so this was new territory (so to speak)...and no one there to encourage and support them. They had to walk by blind faith.
I see hypocrisy as those who know what scriptures say to do and don't do it yet expect others to live by it and when they don't they judge them. Those are hypocrits....Peter was more like a person who had no experience or instruction on what to do.

Please don’t think I’m picking on Peter. My only motive is instead of focusing on Jew and gentile, for a minute, to consider what Peter might have been experiencing on a deeper level of conflict within. How that applies to life and circumstances where we might not be in the conflict between Jew or gentiles, Old Testament or the New …but caught where we are torn between where do we stand? I do really like and appreciate how you brought up the vision Peter had. And how he was taught there. I hadn’t considered the vision with his conflict there on eating…

what you said about hypocrisy makes me consider a very frightening verse (Imo) James 4:17 Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.

 

[Nancy]

thank you



It makes sense. if I’m not mistaken When Peter denied knowing or having been with Christ was, yes, before being filled by the Holy Spirit. But then afterwards they were bold an example being, but I can’t find it now is of them taking a beating and asking for more boldness. But still Peter fearing the men coming in turns aloof again; not eating with those he was eating with prior to the men coming in. Basically putting on a mask of pretense or play-acting. Here is the part I’m uncertain of…wasn’t this after being filled with the Spirit and their great boldness and asking for more of it?

not to bash Peter or that it matters …except for maybe showing how relatable they all are to our own experiences and things we also go through.

Hi Victory,
I have often wondered this exact thing, Peter seemed weak in spirit for sure. And, definitely relatable to the human condition. That's why we need one another, to be lifted up, to be accountable to one another and many other things.
Hey, Peter might even get "Few" stripes.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Please don’t think I’m picking on Peter. My only motive is instead of focusing on Jew and gentile, for a minute, to consider what Peter might have been experiencing on a deeper level of conflict within. How that applies to life and circumstances where we might not be in the conflict between Jew or gentiles, Old Testament or the New …but caught where we are torn between where do we stand? I do really like and appreciate how you brought up the vision Peter had. And how he was taught there. I hadn’t considered the vision with his conflict there on eating…

what you said about hypocrisy makes me consider a very frightening verse (Imo) James 4:17 Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.

I didn't see you as picking on Peter....I often wonder why Jesus chose him and called him a rock and build His church on it.
Matthew 16 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁷ And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
¹⁸ And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
¹⁹ And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Knowing Peter would deny Him soon it's hard to understand why Peter was chosen to build His church....it seems that He enjoys picking the most unlikely individuals to serve Him.

 

[Rita]

I didn't see you as picking on Peter....I often wonder why Jesus chose him and called him a rock and build His church on it.
Matthew 16 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁷ And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
¹⁸ And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
¹⁹ And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Knowing Peter would deny Him soon it's hard to understand why Peter was chosen to build His church....it seems that He enjoys picking the most unlikely individuals to serve Him.

I like Peter, to me he was the first one to proclaim the gospel after receiving the Holy Spirit. He was not weak in that moment and I have always looked upon him as the first one to truly enter the kingdom that Jesus was ushering in, His Church. The very fact that despite his weaknesses he was used in a mighty way. He was afraid when Jesus was arrested, but look at what he went on to do…..not some self righteous leader who never messed up, he was still on a journey like the rest of us. Xx
Rita

 

[Lambano]

I like Peter, to me he was the first one to proclaim the gospel after receiving the Holy Spirit. He was not weak in that moment and I have always looked upon him as the first one to truly enter the kingdom that Jesus was ushering in, His Church. The very fact that despite his weaknesses he was used in a mighty way. He was afraid when Jesus was arrested, but look at what he went on to do…..not some self righteous leader who never messed up, he was still on a journey like the rest of us. Xx
Rita

I like that the Bible shows our leaders' human sides: Peter's cowardice that he tried to cover with bluster, Paul's arrogance and pride covering his self-doubt, John's wrathfulness...

 

[Nancy]

I like that the Bible shows our leaders' human sides: Peter's cowardice that he tried to cover with bluster, Paul's arrogance and pride covering his self-doubt, John's wrathfulness...

Funny you mention Johns wrathfulness. I had read something recently about Jesus naming James and John Boanerges meaning of course, "Sons of Thunder". What the meaning was, as told, is that it means short tempers, anger, impetuosity, fervency and quick to act before thinking. Kind of like when John and James were when traveling with Jesus and the other disciples, and were not welcomed as they were going to Jerusalem. they asked Jesus "do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?" Lol...but then John is also NOW known as the "Apostle of Love"...he grew

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Excellent thread!
It made me think about something I struggle with, which is to wonder at which point trying not to offend a weaker brother becomes a weaker brother bullying others.