Catholic issues

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
11,386
5,362
113
67
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Of course, Jesus could have explained. He had explained previously but people too involved in their own things did not bother themselves, could not be bothered to really pay close attention or to ask for help to understand. God does not twist people's arm to make them receive the Truth.

Is your whole religion based on misunderstandings or somebody no listening? Is that how you think the Bible is written?.....The Gospel is a misunderstanding? These scripture are very detailed and clear....if you cannot understand them.....can you understand anything in the Bible? Or is that how you explain away scriptures that you do not like? It is a misunderstanding or Christ was not smart enough to explain it. The scriptures concerning the Bread and Wine ritual are relatively length....well explained....the ramifications explained....the reaction of the people that heard them....their response.....they walked away....the way it went down, they probably gave up Christianity.....then the ritual was performed....Christ saying this is my blood and is my body. His words have meaning and authority. Then Paul warned about not doing the ritual right. Actually one of the best explained topics there is.

I am truly sorry if that is what you see in me. Only God gives us any real increase in the things that really matter to Him. If we follow Him always first in front of any man, we will never end up in a ditch because we strived to follow Him.

See in you? Like I said....got to have some humor with this....the pot thing was about the idiocy of some of these beliefs....All of which are not biblical and relatively new beliefs. What I see in you is some one that has a hard time with understanding scriptures. Not a bad person. There are scriptures that take deep study, but that does not make up most of them....most are straight forward. But these things I mentioned with the "puff" analogy...there is no excuse for that and are mostly examples of personnel desires and beliefs imposed on the scriptures.

The Bible itself on most topic is easy to understand it you read it with a honest heart. You do not open the Bible to teach it. Your interest in OSAS and the Bread and Wine ritual make it clear you are opening the Bible to find what you believe and explain away the rest.

I am sure you are a sweet guy. But you are too senior in Christianity to be doing this. We are going to meet our maker and we do not want to be held accountable for preaching things that will send others to hell or coming up with religious beliefs that deny or explain away the Word of God.

 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,629
31,890
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Is your whole religion based on misunderstandings or somebody no listening? Is that how you think the Bible is written?.....The Gospel is a misunderstanding? These scripture are very detailed and clear....if you cannot understand them.....can you understand anything in the Bible? Or is that how you explain away scriptures that you do not like? It is a misunderstanding or Christ was not smart enough to explain it. The scriptures concerning the Bread and Wine ritual are relatively length....well explained....the ramifications explained....the reaction of the people that heard them....their response.....they walked away....the way it went down, they probably gave up Christianity.....then the ritual was performed....Christ saying this is my blood and is my body. His words have meaning and authority. Then Paul warned about not doing the ritual right. Actually one of the best explained topics there is.



See in you? Like I said....got to have some humor with this....the pot thing was about the idiocy of some of these beliefs....All of which are not biblical and relatively new beliefs. What I see in you is some one that has a hard time with understanding scriptures. Not a bad person. There are scriptures that take deep study, but that does not make up most of them....most are straight forward. But these things I mentioned with the "puff" analogy...there is no excuse for that and are mostly examples of personnel desires and beliefs imposed on the scriptures.

The Bible itself on most topic is easy to understand it you read it with a honest heart. You do not open the Bible to teach it. Your interest in OSAS and the Bread and Wine ritual make it clear you are opening the Bible to find what you believe and explain away the rest.

I am sure you are a sweet guy. But you are too senior in Christianity to be doing this. We are going to meet our maker and we do not want to be held accountable for preaching things that will send others to hell or coming up with religious beliefs that deny or explain away the Word of God.
I won't rehash all of these things with you. You disagree with where I and with why I am there. That is your prerogative. If I saw that you were right and that I was wrong on things, I would certainly want to change, to be changed. Over my many years walking with God I have changed on quite a few things... often as a result of God speaking through other men to my heart. I do not however follow after any man without caution because I know that any man can stumble and that includes me.
 

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
11,386
5,362
113
67
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I won't rehash all of these things with you. You disagree with where I and with why I am there. That is your prerogative. If I saw that you were right and that I was wrong on things, I would certainly want to change, to be changed. Over my many years walking with God I have changed on quite a few things... often as a result of God speaking through other men to my heart. I do not however follow after any man without caution because I know that any man can stumble and that includes me.

There is nothing I do on this forum that I would want some one to follow me or even believe me.
Johnny Appleseed of Truth.
I sow the seeds....from there it is between whoever and Christ. Now how I deal with evil is another thing.
I stay away from complicated issues, topics so most of what I say is clearly said in the scriptures or can be looked up relatively easily. Either way, no stress on me.

Call no man father....looking up to people or following people can lead to disappointment....even in faith
The more important a man of God is....the more important to Satan to take them down. That is why I am sympathetic to those leaders that have fallen. LOL But some people have found out the hard way that my sympathy can be real painful. I would take some of these guys behind the woodshed and and beat them till they could not see or walk straight. Then I would bless them and tell them to fly right and get back on that horse and do the work of God. And I would go to their church. What does not kill you makes you stronger....LOL

We have talked before and out of these conversations you probably feel that I am rough on you. And I have no apology for you. Think outside the box....why do I do that? What good is a friend if he won't tell you that your fly is down? Then what kind of friend pats you on the back and watches you follow a path that leads to hell. So I will shake your lamp post to see if I can make your lightbulb come on....brain on!
Still you do not have to believe me....free-will. I have a prayer list....you are on it. I pray that good rules your life here on earth and the afterlife.

No matter what I say, only you can find the truth, that is between you and Christ. That is why I call myself Grailhunter....search for truth and sharing it....just seeds Johnny Appleseed of truth.

Don't care if you get mad at me.....but do not think I do not like you.
Be good and do good.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,629
31,890
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There is nothing I do on this forum that I would want some one to follow me or even believe me.
Johnny Appleseed of Truth.
I sow the seeds....from there it is between whoever and Christ. Now how I deal with evil is another thing.
I stay away from complicated issues, topics so most of what I say is clearly said in the scriptures or can be looked up relatively easily. Either way, no stress on me.

Call no man father....looking up to people or following people can lead to disappointment....even in faith
The more important a man of God is....the more important to Satan to take them down. That is why I am sympathetic to those leaders that have fallen. LOL But some people have found out the hard way that my sympathy can be real painful. I would take some of these guys behind the woodshed and and beat them till they could not see or walk straight. Then I would bless them and tell them to fly right and get back on that horse and do the work of God. And I would go to their church. What does kill you makes you stronger....LOL

We have talked before and out of these conversations you probably feel that I am rough on you. And I have no apology for you. Think outside the box....why do I do that? What good is a friend if he won't tell you that your fly is down? Then what kind of friend pats you on the back and watches you follow a path that leads to hell. So I will shake your lamp post to see if I can make your lightbulb come on....brain on!
Still you do not have to believe me....free-will. I have a prayer list....you are on it. I pray that good rules your life here on earth and the afterlife.

No matter what I say, only you can find the truth, that is between you and Christ. That is why I call myself Grailhunter....search for truth and sharing it....just seeds Johnny Appleseed of truth.

Don't care if you get mad at me.....but do not think I do not like you.
Be good and do good.
Give God the glory!
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
[QUOTE="Eternally Grateful, post: 1209980,


Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

It’s not a do it yourself religion!
It’s not a bible study!

It’s a covenant!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” not biblical
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!
Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!
Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice!
The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10


“This promise” (sacred oath of God or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 1:16-17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
(Thru faith and the sacraments!)


God provides for everything:
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

He is the way we must follow!
He is the truth we must believe!
He is the life, life of grace thru the sacraments of the church in which we must live!

Abide in Christ and His church with grace and life provided by God thru the sacraments!

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Baptism: (initiation into the covenant)
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The Eucharist: (holy communion)
Mt 26:26-39 Jn 6:51-58 1 Cor 11:23-25

Confession of sins:
Jn 20:23 / 1 Jn 1:9 / 2 cor 5:18
I
Confirmation
Lk 22:32 acts 8:14-17
acts 14:22

Marriage:
Matt 19:4-6

Holy orders: (priesthood)
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru His priesthood in Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 10:1-8 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 acts 1:17 acts 6:4 acts 8:26
2 Cor 5:18 1 Tim 4:14 Eph 2:20

Extreme unction: (anointing with oil)
1 Tim 4:14 James 5:14

The one, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles!

———

A sacrament is an outward efficacious sign instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus Christ himself is the sacrament, as he gave his life to save mankind. His humanity is the outward sign or the instrument of his Divinity. It is through his humanity that the life of the Trinity comes to us as grace through the sacraments. It is Jesus Christ alone who mediates the sacraments to allow grace to flow to mankind.

Christ sent the Holy Spirit at Pentecost to inspire his Apostles and his Church to shepherd his flock after his Ascension into heaven. "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 17:18, 20:21). Jesus is the Head of his Body the Church (Colossians 1:18). The Church itself is a sacrament instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus gave us his Body the Church to continue the works he performed during his earthly life. Grace given to us through the sacraments will help us lead a good life in this world and help save us for the Kingdom of Heaven.
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The sacraments were instituted by Christ! The Church celebrates in her liturgy the Paschal mystery of Christ, his Passion, Sacrifice on the Cross, Resurrection, and Glorious Ascension. The Greek word μυστήριον or mystery in the Greek New Testament is translated into sacramentum in the Latin Vulgate Bible, from which we derive our English word sacrament (examples: Ephesians 1:9, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:27). The saving effects of Christ's Redemption on the Cross are communicated through the sacraments, especially in the liturgical celebration of the Eucharist.

The seven sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation or Chrismation, Holy Eucharist, Penance, the Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders, and Matrimony. The three sacraments of Christian Initiation are Baptism, Chrismation or Confirmation, and the Eucharist. The two sacraments of Healing are Penance and the Anointing of the Sick, and the two sacraments of Vocation are Holy Orders and Marriage. Three sacraments, Baptism, Confirmation or Chrismation, and Holy Orders, are given once, as they render a permanent seal or character upon one's soul (2 Corinthians 1:21-22, Ephesians 4:30, Revelations 7:3).

The Gospel of Mark 5:25-34 describes a woman afflicted with hemorrhage who touched the cloak of Jesus and was immediately healed. There is a fourth century fresco painting in the catacomb of Sts. Marcellinus and Peter depicting this event, which serves as an apt symbol of Sacrament - the power that flows out from the body of Jesus, in order to effect both remission of sin and new life in Christ. The fresco image frames Part II of the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the Liturgy and the Sacraments, The Celebration of the Christian Mystery. St. Thomas Aquinas, in the Summa Theologica, has written the standard exposition on the Seven Sacraments.

Each sacrament consists of a visible external rite, which is composed of matter and form, the matter being the action, such as the pouring of water in baptism, and the form being the words spoken by the minister. Each sacramental rite confers a special ecclesial effect and sacramental grace appropriate for each sacrament. The sacraments occur at pivotal events and give meaning to a person's life.

The sacraments act ex opere operato, by the very fact of the action being performed, independent of the minister. The effect on the person receiving the sacrament is called ex opere operantis, and depends on the interior disposition of the receiver.

Grace is a favor, the free and undeserved gift from God through Christ Jesus, to help us respond to his call to become children of God, to become partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is a participation in the life of God and is necessary for salvation.
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
15,241
8,437
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!

It’s not a do it yourself religion!
It’s not a bible study!

It’s a covenant!
I repeat
"remember that when you meet Christ.

If they were wrong. You will not get a "get out of hell free" card.

You will be held responsible for your own belief system.

Once again, eternity is too long. I wish you luck, Because you will need it"

Your right, it is not a do it yourself religion

Its a CAN'T DO IT AT ALL RELIGION.

1. Thats why Christ came
2. Thats why the law could not save
3. Thats why religion can not save
4. That we we are saved BY GRACE through FAITH, not of works lest anyone should boast.

If you want to place your eternity in the hands of men, feel free my friend.

Once again, eternity is to long to place it in the hands of another man who needs saved himself. because he himself has failed to meet Gods standard
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I repeat
"remember that when you meet Christ.

If they were wrong. You will not get a "get out of hell free" card.

You will be held responsible for your own belief system.

Once again, eternity is too long. I wish you luck, Because you will need it"

Your right, it is not a do it yourself religion

Its a CAN'T DO IT AT ALL RELIGION.

1. Thats why Christ came
2. Thats why the law could not save
3. Thats why religion can not save
4. That we we are saved BY GRACE through FAITH, not of works lest anyone should boast.

If you want to place your eternity in the hands of men, feel free my friend.

Once again, eternity is to long to place it in the hands of another man who needs saved himself. because he himself has failed to meet Gods standard

not works of the law
And not works alone
No
Faith hope and charity
Prayer, fasting, alms, practice of virtues
And the sacraments Are all part of salvation!
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
15,241
8,437
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
not works of the law
And not works alone
No
Faith hope and charity
Prayer, fasting, alms, practice of virtues
And the sacraments Are all part of salvation!
NOT BY WORKS PERIOD.

You can not earn salvation my friend, God is not going to forgive your sin because you did some work of righteousness.

Titus 3: 5, NOT by works of righteousness which we have done, BUT BY HIS MERCY HE SAVED US, by the WASHING and RENEWAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT''

you can boast all you want of your works, they will not save you, they will not even HELP save you.

Only the blood of Jesus can save you.
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
NOT BY WORKS PERIOD.

You can not earn salvation my friend, God is not going to forgive your sin because you did some work of righteousness.

Titus 3: 5, NOT by works of righteousness which we have done, BUT BY HIS MERCY HE SAVED US, by the WASHING and RENEWAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT''

you can boast all you want of your works, they will not save you, they will not even HELP save you.

Only the blood of Jesus can save you.

titus 3:5 refers to Christ work of redemption and justification by baptismal regeneration
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
assent to God's truth (1 Thessalonians 2:13), obedience to Him (Romans 1:5, 16:26), and it must be working in love (Galatians 5:6). These points appeared to be missed by the reformers, yet they are just as crucial as believing and trusting. (1 Corinthians 13:1-3)
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Baptism and new birth of the Holy Spirit

Not by baptism in water. That is a work of righteousness in which you do. Paul did not contradict himself

there is no baptism without water

The materia proxima of the Sacrament of Baptism is the ablution, by physical contact, of the body with water.

A sacrament is an outward efficacious sign instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus Christ himself is the sacrament, as he gave his life to save mankind. His humanity is the outward sign or the instrument of his Divinity. It is through his humanity that the life of the Trinity comes to us as grace through the sacraments. It is Jesus Christ alone who mediates the sacraments to allow grace to flow to mankind.

Christ sent the Holy Spirit at Pentecost to inspire his Apostles and his Church to shepherd his flock after his Ascension into heaven. "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 17:18, 20:21). Jesus is the Head of his Body the Church (Colossians 1:18). The Church itself is a sacrament instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus gave us his Body the Church to continue the works he performed during his earthly life. Grace given to us through the sacraments will help us lead a good life in this world and help save us for the Kingdom of Heaven.

The sacraments were instituted by Christ! The Church celebrates in her liturgy the Paschal mystery of Christ, his Passion, Sacrifice on the Cross, Resurrection, and Glorious Ascension. The Greek word μυστήριον or mystery in the Greek New Testament is translated into sacramentum in the Latin Vulgate Bible, from which we derive our English word sacrament (examples: Ephesians 1:9, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:27). The saving effects of Christ's Redemption on the Cross are communicated through the sacraments, especially in the liturgical celebration of the Eucharist.
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,629
31,890
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What does not kill you makes you stronger....LOL
Going through difficulties may do just that... if we never quit on God. Not hearing from God causes some people to give up... to quit. They do not understand and perhaps they really do not want to understand what God's purpose is for men in general or the individual in particular.
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
15,241
8,437
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
there is no baptism without water
You need to look up the history of the greek word Baptizo. Baptism is not even a native english word.

In scripture there are alot of baptism without water.

The materia proxima of the Sacrament of Baptism is the ablution, by physical contact, of the body with water.

A sacrament is an outward efficacious sign instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus Christ himself is the sacrament, as he gave his life to save mankind. His humanity is the outward sign or the instrument of his Divinity. It is through his humanity that the life of the Trinity comes to us as grace through the sacraments. It is Jesus Christ alone who mediates the sacraments to allow grace to flow to mankind.

Christ sent the Holy Spirit at Pentecost to inspire his Apostles and his Church to shepherd his flock after his Ascension into heaven. "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 17:18, 20:21). Jesus is the Head of his Body the Church (Colossians 1:18). The Church itself is a sacrament instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus gave us his Body the Church to continue the works he performed during his earthly life. Grace given to us through the sacraments will help us lead a good life in this world and help save us for the Kingdom of Heaven.

The sacraments were instituted by Christ! The Church celebrates in her liturgy the Paschal mystery of Christ, his Passion, Sacrifice on the Cross, Resurrection, and Glorious Ascension. The Greek word μυστήριον or mystery in the Greek New Testament is translated into sacramentum in the Latin Vulgate Bible, from which we derive our English word sacrament (examples: Ephesians 1:9, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:27). The saving effects of Christ's Redemption on the Cross are communicated through the sacraments, especially in the liturgical celebration of the Eucharist.
thank you. But I like to look at facts. History of word usage. and what the bible says.

This does not help me do that. These are just words of men
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You need to look up the history of the greek word Baptizo. Baptism is not even a native english word.

In scripture there are alot of baptism without water.


thank you. But I like to look at facts. History of word usage. and what the bible says.

This does not help me do that. These are just words of men

Christian water baptism is a sacrament instituted by Christ for salvation
Jn 3:5