Catholics; Do You Believe This?

[Christ4Me]

Catholics, do you believe this from the Catholic Catechism?

No salvation outside the Catholic Church?

Any words in red is not part of the Catholic catechism I am quoting.

"824 United with Christ, the Church is sanctified by him; through him and with him she becomes sanctifying. "All the activities of the Church are directed, as toward their end, to the sanctification of men in Christ and the glorification of God."292 It is in the Church that "the fullness of the means of salvation"293 has been deposited. It is in her that "by the grace of God we acquire holiness."294"

830 The word "catholic" means "universal," in the sense of "according to the totality" or "in keeping with the whole." the Church is catholic in a double sense: First, the Church is catholic because Christ is present in her. "Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church."307 In her subsists the fullness of Christ's body united with its head; this implies that she receives from him "the fullness of the means of salvation"308 which he has willed: correct and complete confession of faith, full sacramental life, and ordained ministry in apostolic succession. the Church was, in this fundamental sense, catholic on the day of Pentecost309 and will always be so until the day of the Parousia.

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

The irony is how the following quote from the Catholic Catechism has those who do not know about the gospel of Jesus Christ & His Church through no fault of their own are saved.

47 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

And yet

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but 'in body' not 'in heart.'"321

Does any Catholic wished they had never heard of the gospel of Jesus Christ & His Church?

 

[Christ4Me]

I understand that there are "cafeteria" Catholics out there that believes in different teachings of Catholicism and not in all the teachings of Catholicism.

There are some Catholics that believed they are saved as the scriptures testify for coming to & believing in Jesus Christ. They should leave the catholic Church if they wish their fellow Catholics to see their faith in Jesus Christ that they really do believe they are saved by faith in Him without being a member of the catholic Church to obtain it, otherwise, staying within, they will think you may say your faith to them but you are still here in that church just in case you are wrong. So it is better to leave the Catholic Church & live that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ rather than stay in it in the hopes of reaching out to others.

There are Catholics out there that believe in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead but still do not believe they are saved yet even though scripture says they are saved. Maybe one day you will believe His words over the Church's words and leave that Church for your good in the Lord and have that joy of your salvation restored to you if not for the first time even though you are saved.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Jesus Christ is the Good News to man. The Catholic Catechism does not sound like the Good News at all, but a rat race that would make any Catholic think it is better to be an unbeliever and seek to do good and be saved rather than worry about all the works you have to do to obtain salvation by.

The only reason the Church at Rome made compromises like with the heathens is that was because of all the other religions in Rome that would give the Church at Rome grief.

If the Church does not want any Catholic converting unbelievers but non-Catholic Christians to come back into the fold, what does that tell you? It makes you wonder why Jesus even bothered to come at all.

 

[Christ4Me]

When the Catholic Church believes there are other ways to come to God to be saved for why they are ecumenical in gathering grapes of thorns and figs of thistles with other religions of the world, they make Jesus having the necessity to come to die for us to be in vain.

Matthew 26:36 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. 37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. 38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. 39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. 40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? 41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. 42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done. 43 And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy. 44 And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.

Does any one really believe that if God the Father knew there were other ways for sinners to be saved, He would let His Son to suffer all those things and die for our sins on the cross for nothing?

Would Jesus have prayed as He did if He knew there were other ways for man to be saved?

Indeed, if God chosen people, the Jews, could not save themselves by doing the best they can in keeping His commandments under the Old Covenant, what makes the Catholic Church believes the heathen are going to be saved by?

Ask Jesus Christ for help to restore the joy of your salvation and lean on Him for help follow Him by leaving the Catholic Church to let your faith in Him as Your Saviour shine as a witness t all those around you in Christ's love.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Catholics, do you believe this from the Catholic Catechism?

No salvation outside the Catholic Church?

Any words in red is not part of the Catholic catechism I am quoting.

"824 United with Christ, the Church is sanctified by him; through him and with him she becomes sanctifying. "All the activities of the Church are directed, as toward their end, to the sanctification of men in Christ and the glorification of God."292 It is in the Church that "the fullness of the means of salvation"293 has been deposited. It is in her that "by the grace of God we acquire holiness."294"

830 The word "catholic" means "universal," in the sense of "according to the totality" or "in keeping with the whole." the Church is catholic in a double sense: First, the Church is catholic because Christ is present in her. "Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church."307 In her subsists the fullness of Christ's body united with its head; this implies that she receives from him "the fullness of the means of salvation"308 which he has willed: correct and complete confession of faith, full sacramental life, and ordained ministry in apostolic succession. the Church was, in this fundamental sense, catholic on the day of Pentecost309 and will always be so until the day of the Parousia.

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

The irony is how the following quote from the Catholic Catechism has those who do not know about the gospel of Jesus Christ & His Church through no fault of their own are saved.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

And yet

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but 'in body' not 'in heart.'"321

Does any Catholic wished they had never heard of the gospel of Jesus Christ & His Church?

This post is based on your general ignorance of Catholic teaching.
However, what I highlighted above in RED is a LIE.

The Catechism does NOT teach that those who do not know about the gospel of Jesus Christ and His Church through NO fault of their own are "saved". Paragraph #847 - which YOU posted above clearly states:
"those too MAY achieve eternal salvation."

What does Jesus say about such people?
John 9:40-41
Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, “What? Are we blind too?”
Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

John 15:22
If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.

It's not the truly ignorant that God punishes - but the prideful and arrogant.

 

[Taken]

This post is based on your general ignorance of Catholic teaching.
However, what I highlighted above in RED is a LIE.

Question.
No salvation outside the Catholic Church?

Question NOT Answered.

 

[amigo de christo]

Question.
No salvation outside the Catholic Church?

Question NOT Answered.

You already know my answer my friend . My answer is salavation is found in Christ alone . AND IN FACT
i say With much urgency and great love , FOR ALL TO FLEE the CC .

 

[BreadOfLife]

There are some Catholics that believed they are saved as the scriptures testify for coming to & believing in Jesus Christ. They should leave the catholic Church if they wish their fellow Catholics to see their faith in Jesus Christ that they really do believe they are saved by faith in Him without being a member of the catholic Church to obtain it, otherwise, staying within, they will think you may say your faith to them but you are still here in that church just in case you are wrong. So it is better to leave the Catholic Church & live that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ rather than stay in it in the hopes of reaching out to others.

There are Catholics out there that believe in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead but still do not believe they are saved yet even though scripture says they are saved. Maybe one day you will believe His words over the Church's words and leave that Church for your good in the Lord and have that joy of your salvation restored to you if not for the first time even though you are saved.

Jesus Christ is the Good News to man. The Catholic Catechism does not sound like the Good News at all, but a rat race that would make any Catholic think it is better to be an unbeliever and seek to do good and be saved rather than worry about all the works you have to do to obtain salvation by.

The only reason the Church at Rome made compromises like with the heathens is that was because of all the other religions in Rome that would give the Church at Rome grief.

If the Church does not want any Catholic converting unbelievers but non-Catholic Christians to come back into the fold, what does that tell you? It makes you wonder why Jesus even bothered to come at all.

To answer your text above in RED - the Scriptures don't "guarantee" salvation unless we have endured to the end in faith.

The Bible assures us that we as Christians are ALREADY SAVED (Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), This is Initial Salvation – God give us the initial grace to believe.

However, because Salvation is a LIFELONG process – it ALSO says that I am BEING SAVED (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14).
This is Ongoing Sanctification – God is sanctifying us throughout our life as we cooperate with his grace.

Because of this, I have the hope that I WILL BE SAVED (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). This is Final Sanctification/Salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

In fact - the Bible issues several WARINGS to born-again believers that we can LOSE our secure position by our OWN doing . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God “take away” somebody’s “share” of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Question.
No salvation outside the Catholic Church?
Question NOT Answered.

Correct.

This DOESN'T mean, however, that only "card-carrying" members of the Catholic Church will be saved.
This was explained in Paragraph 847.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You already know my answer my friend . My answer is salavation is found in Christ alone . AND IN FACT
i say With much urgency and great love , FOR ALL TO FLEE the CC .

That's because YOU don't have the foggiest CLUE as to what Christ's Church is.
Allow me to educate you . . .

In Acts 9:4-5, Jesus equates his Body – the Church - with his very self:
He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" He said, "Who are you, sir?" The reply came, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.

Notice that Jesus DOESN’T say, “Why are you persecuting the Church?” (which is EXACTLY what Saul was doing). Jesus chose to EQUATE the Church with himself.

 

[Taken]

Correct.

This DOESN'T mean, however, that only "card-carrying" members of the Catholic Church will be saved.
This was explained in Paragraph 847.

False teaching.

 

[BreadOfLife]

False teaching.

Not according to Jesus who equates his Body – the Church - with his very self:
Acts 9:4-5
He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting ME?" He said, "Who are you, sir?" The reply came, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.

He gave that Church - which He equates with HIMSELF - supreme earthly Authority . . .

Matt 16:18-19
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. 18:15-18
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent ME, so I send YOU.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained.”

 

[Philip James]

would make any Catholic think it is better to be an unbeliever and seek to do good and be saved rather than worry about all the works you have to do

and the servant who was ignorant of his master's will but acted in a way deserving of a severe beating shall be beaten only lightly. Much will be required of the person entrusted with much, and still more will be demanded of the person entrusted with more.

You should rejoice that the Church recognozes your ignorance will not be held against you..

But one who knows the truth, but walks away because it is 'difficult' to follow our Master, can he stand before the throne?

Your attacks are bluster, ignorance and hatred. You revile what you do not understand, even as we pray for you and the whole world..

Pax et Bonum

 

[Taken]

Not according to Jesus who equates his Body – the Church - with his very self:

Get real.
Christ’s Church IS HIS.
He Sets the Standard.
His Doctrine Rules.
His Word Rules.
His Power Rules.
Inclusion IN His Church IS exclusively according to HIS WAY.
The FIRST Included IN Christ’s Church, Were Jesus’ exclusively chosen Jewish Apostles.
Their MISSION was to First TEACH the Jews, THEN TEACH the other Tribes, and AVOID the Gentiles.
Paul’s Apostolic MISSION was to TEACH Both. First the Gentiles and then the Tribesmen.

And ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, the Apostles MISSION was to TEACH According to Christ’s WAY, standard, Doctrine, Word, Power.

Some Gentile men came along and were Appointed aids, helpers, overseers of congregations....AND?? After all the Apostles had died...

Gentiles ...
Devised another name for Christ’s Church.
Devised their own Standards.
Devised their own Doctrines.
Devised their own Words.
Devised their own Understanding.
Devised their own Powers.
Seated their own “holy father”.
Appoint their own “priests”.
Erect their own Statues.
Teach and Preach ACCORDING TO Their WAY.

Matt 16:
[13] When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?


[15] He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

THEY DIDN’T KNOW!

[16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

YEAH...RIGHT ANSWER Simon Peter...
BUT of Course...God just gave you the ANSWER!
Always special when God does the blessing!

Jesus reminds Peter, he is Simon Barjona.
Jesus reiterates From there forward he will be called by the suname PETER, that Jesus gave him.
Jesus IS happy ALL THE DISCIPLES now KNOW...
CHRIST JESUS’ CHURCH SHALL BE BUILT UPON: The Rock...WHO IS CHRIST; His Church SHALL BE BUILD UPON:
THIS ROCK, Christ, and THESE WORDS:
Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the living God!

[17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this (Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the living God.....that none of the Disciples KNEW, until God told Peter)....rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

You completely ignore the importance of Jesus ASKING...
Who am I....And UPON Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the living God,
IS Precisely what Christ’s Church is BUILD UPON.

Mark 3:
[16] And Simon he surnamed Peter;

1 Cor 10:
[4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

 

[Taken]

There are some Catholics that believed they are saved as the scriptures testify for coming to & believing in Jesus Christ.

There are Catholics out there that believe in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead but still do not believe they are saved yet even though scripture says they are saved.

And some Catholics believe while they had NO knowledge what so ever, of their water drip “baptism”, that they Being VOID of confession.... BECAME BAPTIZED with the Holy Spirit...is BORN AGAIN,
AND soul saved, IF they continue to believe to their end of bodily life.

Not what Scripture teaches.

 

[Illuminator]

And some Catholics believe while they had NO knowledge what so ever, of their water drip “baptism”, that they Being VOID of confession.... BECAME BAPTIZED with the Holy Spirit...is BORN AGAIN,
AND soul saved, IF they continue to believe to their end of bodily life.

Not what Scripture teaches.

You've dogmatized your stupid fallacious reasoning, thus inventing a whole new religion. You are an embarrassment to civilized Protestants.

 

[Taken]

You've dogmatized your stupid fallacious reasoning, thus inventing a whole new religion. You are an embarrassment to civilized Protestants.

I’m not embarrassed to repeat what a Catholic has claimed for himself.
If you think what a Catholic has claimed for himself is stupid, so be it.

 

[Philip James]

And some Catholics believe while they had NO knowledge what so ever, of their water drip “baptism”, that they Being VOID of confession.... BECAME BAPTIZED with the Holy Spirit...is BORN AGAIN,
AND soul saved, IF they continue to believe to their end of bodily life.

Not what Scripture teaches.

We can throw scriptures at each other if you like, but consider this:

Will our Father not grant the new birth to our children if we ask it of Him?

Do you think He wishes to leave our children in darkness?

I thank God, for blessing me with a mother, who's faith would procure for me such a preciuos gift..

Pax et Bonum

 

[Taken]

We can throw scriptures at each other if you like, but consider this:

Will our Father not grant the new birth to our children if we ask it of Him?

If “WE” ask. Nothing indicates that is the case.
I believe “WE” certainly may desire our child to be saved...
But “WE” can not decide FOR the child what “WE” decide their Heart Believes.

Do you think He wishes to leave our children in darkness?

Parents direction is to teach the child, so they are well equipped and prepared to MAKE their own choice.

God is not flippant. He knows the heart of every individual.

I thank God, for blessing me with a mother, who's faith would procure for me such a preciuos gift..
Pax et Bonum

I’m confidant “WE” are to introduce and rehearse in their ears the Word of God. But again, I do not find confessing their belief For them.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Get real.
Christ’s Church IS HIS.
He Sets the Standard.
His Doctrine Rules.
His Word Rules.
His Power Rules.
Inclusion IN His Church IS exclusively according to HIS WAY.
The FIRST Included IN Christ’s Church, Were Jesus’ exclusively chosen Jewish Apostles.
Their MISSION was to First TEACH the Jews, THEN TEACH the other Tribes, and AVOID the Gentiles.
Paul’s Apostolic MISSION was to TEACH Both. First the Gentiles and then the Tribesmen.

And ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, the Apostles MISSION was to TEACH According to Christ’s WAY, standard, Doctrine, Word, Power.

Some Gentile men came along and were Appointed aids, helpers, overseers of congregations....AND?? After all the Apostles had died...

Gentiles ...
Devised another name for Christ’s Church.
Devised their own Standards.
Devised their own Doctrines.
Devised their own Words.
Devised their own Understanding.
Devised their own Powers.
Seated their own “holy father”.
Appoint their own “priests”.
Erect their own Statues.
Teach and Preach ACCORDING TO Their WAY.

Matt 16:
[13] When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?


[15] He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

THEY DIDN’T KNOW!

[16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

YEAH...RIGHT ANSWER Simon Peter...
BUT of Course...God just gave you the ANSWER!
Always special when God does the blessing!

Jesus reminds Peter, he is Simon Barjona.
Jesus reiterates From there forward he will be called by the suname PETER, that Jesus gave him.
Jesus IS happy ALL THE DISCIPLES now KNOW...
CHRIST JESUS’ CHURCH SHALL BE BUILT UPON: The Rock...WHO IS CHRIST; His Church SHALL BE BUILD UPON:
THIS ROCK, Christ, and THESE WORDS:
Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the living God!

[17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this (Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the living God.....that none of the Disciples KNEW, until God told Peter)....rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

You completely ignore the importance of Jesus ASKING...
Who am I....And UPON Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the living God,
IS Precisely what Christ’s Church is BUILD UPON.

Mark 3:
[16] And Simon he surnamed Peter;

1 Cor 10:
[4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

This is so typical of your inance responses.
I corrected a false representation of what the Catechism says about salvation and those outside the Church.

YOUR impotent response in post #10: "False teaching".
You gave ZERO support for that comment and ZERO Scriptural evidence to back it up.
In post #11 - I gavce you a Scriptural explanation for Church Authority - and now, you respond with this drivel . . .

The "ROCK" of Matt. 16:18 is Peter (Kepha/Cepha=Rock).
Just as Abraham is ALSO called the "ROCK" in Isa. 51:1-2. I don't knbow HOW many time I have to school on on this point
- Jesus is the ROCK in very specific instances (1 Cor 10:, 1 Peter 2:7-8).
- Abraham is the ROCK in a very specific instance (Isa. 51:1-2).
- Peter is the ROCK in a very specific instance (Matt. 16:18).

However - in YOR incredible ignorance - Jesus is ALWAYS the Rock.
But NOT accorfing to the Word of Almighty God - as I have amply educated you.

Don't just "QUOTE" Scripture - LEARN what it means . . .

 

[Taken]

your inance responses.
YOUR impotent response
YOR incredible ignorance

I corrected
I gave
I educated

Jesus is ALWAYS the Rock.
But NOT accorfing to the Word of Almighty God

You can accuse all day long.
You can uplift yourself all day long.

2 Sam 22:
[2] And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;
[3] The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.
[32] For who is God, save the LORD? and who is a rock, save our God?
[47] The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.
2Sam.23
[3] The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.

1 Cor 10:
[4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

God is the Rock.
LORD is the Rock.
Lord God Almighty is the Rock of Salvation.
Jesus is the Word of God.
God is the Word of God.
Christ is the Spiritual Rock.
Christ is the Rock of His Church.
Christ’s Church is built upon;
Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

Everything that is Created, Made, Established, Saved, Spiritually Built IS Spiritually Built UPON THE ONE:
ROCK Lord Jesus, ROCK God, ROCK Christ Almighty

Christ’s Church is BUILT upon.
Rock Lord Jesus
Rock God
Rock Christ Almighty

Jesus IS the Christ
Son of the Living God

Your rock Peter, is your choice, just as any man who chooses to establish their spiritual faith upon the created rather than the creator.

I’ll stick with The Lord God Almighty IS MY ROCK!