Chastisement & Scourging: The Fear of the Lord. Poison?

[williemac]

You're not making any sense. The reason we need salvation is because we have sin. Jesus says He'll turn no one away. But, after all our sins are forgiven, we're responsible for our actions.



That's beyond vacuity, Bro.
How gormless is that? ... A person can't sin?
Why did Jesus tell folks to sin no more?



This is what Paul reminds us;

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins ... certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries ... hath trodden under foot the Son of God ... counted the blood of the covenant ... an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace"

You're trying to turn the "grace of our God into lasciviousness."

"For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."

My friend, I have covered all of these points of yours over and over in these threads. But let me say that your criticism of my saying a Christian can't sin tells me something about your level of understanding. Why? Because I never made that up, that's why. It was a quote from scripture. If you think it is gormless, then please inform the Holy Spirit, Who inspired John to write it down (1John 3:9). In your case, I suppose the scriptures have lost their profitability to correct. I gave the explanation for it.

Case in point, do you think I don't know about Heb.10:26? I have studied it in depth. But one does not study just one verse. He looks at the context from which it came and examines the entire thought process around it. The last verse in that chapter says we are not of those who draw back to perdition but of those who BELIEVE to the saving of the soul.

Next, you are probably going to tell me what willful sin is. I have seen others try that as well. Unfortunately, they forget that they did not use that phrase. The author of Hebrews used it and it is the only place in scripture it is found. Therefore it means what he meant it to mean, not you or I. He is speaking of sinning outside of the blood sacrifice of Jesus through unbelief in it or rejection of it ( if you even care to study it for yourself). He just got through explaining why the old sacrifices were vastly inferior to that of Jesus and how they have been replaced by His sacrifice. Therefore there is no sacrifice for those Jews (that's who the letter was written to), who do not turn to faith in His blood.

Think about this. Under the old covenant of law, because of sin, God had provided animal sacrifices to keep them in good standing. Are you going to tell me that the blood of bulls and goats accomplished more under that covenant than the precious blood of Jesus does under this one? His sacrifice does not keep us in good standing? Great covenant, man! Let's all rejoice.

I marvel at the conflict in your understanding. If we have to stop sinning to stay in good standing, then no Christian can remain in good standing. So then, I suppose you are of the continual confession and repentance crowd. So here is what is happening. We can't stop sinning, as you insist, but we are supposed to stop or lose salvation, as you insist. So we have a clause for that. We can confess it to God and get forgiveness. O, that's real convenient. And I am the one who is turning grace into lasciviousness? Give your head a shake.

By the way, please tell me which translation literally uses the term.."remission of sins that are past". If it exists, I will have a look. Otherwise, I will think twice about taking seriously those who think its reasonable to misquote scripture. My translation uses the word "forbearance" . God did not need forbearance to simply forgive a person's past sins. Paul was describing two time frames. That is why he also says "at this present time". Besides, the passage makes no attempt at expounding on any such idea that it is only the past sins of a person that are remitted and not the future ones. But anyone who has any understanding of what happens to us at the new birth, would not come to the conclusion you are coming to, that ONLY past sins are forgiven upon being born again. I don't know who is teaching you this dung but I advise that you learn from another source.

Have a look at Heb.6:1-6. It gives the reason why the foundations need only be visited once. Because if a person were to fall away it would be IMPOSSIBLE to get his life back again through repentance. The gift of eternal life is a one time gift. It may be a little (a lot) harder to give it back than some people think it is.

Why do you think that Paul describes the old man as having been crucified with Christ? He told the Ephesians to put off the old man and put on the new man (Eph.4:24) who is created according to God in true righteousness and holiness. Here is the truth. We have the old man of sin, which is our body of flesh, who is alive but has the position and sentence of death on him, and we have the new man of righteousness, which is our new spirit born from God, and is eternal. The part of us that contains the sin nature is legally dead and the part of us that contains God's nature is never going to be held responsible for sin. This is how it is that we cannot sin, even though we do. One is our present reality, the other is our position with God. 2Cor.4:7..." We have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us". The minute you make your salvation "about you" , you fall into unbelief. It is through the obedience and righteousness of ONE MAN (Rom.5:15-19) that we stand before God.

 

[IBeMe]

williemac: ... your criticism of my saying a Christian can't sin tells me something about your level of understanding. Why? Because I never made that up, that's why. It was a quote from scripture. ... (1John 3:9).

Yep, you made it up ... not really you ... this is just stock effluvium from those who hate the commandments of God ... apparently you're just a copy and paste person.

Here's another translation from Google ... not sure which.

1 John 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

And of course, John is bringing the same message that's echoed from one end of the Bible to the other; God doesn't allow folks to sin.

You spew the same old Grace into lasciviousness doctrine that Jude warns about ... said you folks would be creeping around ... no surprise.

"For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."

As Jude says, this doctrine, denies the Lord Jesus Christ.

Indeed, because Jesus explicitly says, "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."

You're calling Jesus's teaching, "is legalistic and a doctrine of demons."

williemac: ... about Heb.10:26? I have studied it in depth. ... you are probably going to tell me what willful sin is.

You studied it, but you don't know what "willful" means?
Don't you have a dictionary?
You've never read Leviticus?
All sins, except for sins of ignorance (see Leviticus), are willful sins.

This is really simple ... all sins done knowingly, opposite of ignorance, are by definition willful sins.

And no! ... That's not the only place the Greek word, hekousios, appears.

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins"

williemac: He is speaking of sinning outside of the blood sacrifice of Jesus through

You seem to have a "truth" problem.

It specifically says, "after that we have received the knowledge."
And goes on to say, "hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing."

You're a prevaricator.

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins "hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing."

williemac: Therefore there is no sacrifice for those Jews (that's who the letter was written to), who do not turn to faith in His blood.

That's just goofy.
He says, "hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing."

williemac: By the way, please tell me which translation literally uses the term.."remission of sins that are past". If it exists

There's this thing called, "Google".
Type this into a browser, "www.google.com", and hit the enter key.
Type the text into the search box, and hit the enter key.
Ask, if you need more help figuring it out.

williemac: "remission of sins that are past"

Anyone who doesn't understand that is scriptually challenged.

Jesus didn't die so that people could serve Satan.

williemac: Have a look at Heb.6:1-6. It gives the reason why the foundations need only be visited once.

You're not telling the truth.

It says, "If they shall fall away."

God offers the gift, you make the choice.

williemac: One is our present reality, the other is our position with God.

You seem to be having a real problem with, "reality"

williemac: The minute you make your salvation "about you" , you fall into unbelief. It is through the obedience and righteousness of ... that we stand before God.

But not pretend, you have to do it in "reality"

Do like Paul, serve God in "reality"

"And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men."


.

 

[williemac]

There's this thing called, "Google".
Type this into a browser, "www.google.com", and hit the enter key.
Type the text into the search box, and hit the enter key.
Ask, if you need more help figuring it out.



Anyone who doesn't understand that is scriptually challenged.

Jesus didn't die so that people could serve Satan.




.

Thank you. I did just that and here are some excerpts from the very first search result:

New Living Translation
For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past,

From Gill’s exposition:
for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God: by "sins that are past", are meant, not sins before baptism, nor the sins of a man's life only, but the sins of Old Testament saints, who lived before the incarnation of Christ,

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary


to declare his righteousness for the remission—rather, "pretermission" or "passing by."

of sins—"the sins."

that are past—not the sins committed by the believer before he embraces Christ, but the sins committed under the old economy, before Christ came to "put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself."

through the forbearance of God—God not remitting but only forbearing to punish them, or passing them by, until an adequate atonement for them should be made.

I think you should actually practice what you preach and do your homework before insulting others.

As for serving Satan, this is a bold and presumptuous accusation you are making. If sinning is the automatic equivalent of serving Satan, then the very first and last time and all times in between that anyone confesses his sin to God, he is admitting his guilt of serving Satan.

I marvel at those who assume the 'grace' message is the same as promoting some kind of license to sin. Of course, those who are under law have this tendency to make that assumption, as the law is their own motive for abstaining from sin. Take the law away ( we are not under law) and they suddenly are faced with their own secret desires and nothing to stop them. So they assume. Thus it is natural that they also assume that others are using grace to fulfill their sinful desires.

Satan is more subtle than to merely get people sinning. He knows what we all know, that sin is an inevitability with all believers, in some fashion or another. So his strategy is to lock them up with guilt and fear. The strategy includes motivating them to be so focused on saving themselves that they are hindered from bearing fruit. Love does not seek its own. Our command is to love one another. But if we are caught up in mere self saving mentality, we are constantly 'seeking our own' survival in our motives for our behavior. Thus pure love is compromised. Doing the right thing is always advisable. Doing it for the wrong reason will not profit the doer.

You can accuse me all you want that I am promoting sin. While that is a fabrication of your own imagination, I will reply with my version about your agenda. You are promoting justification by law. You are mixing leaven in our covenant with God, by insisting it is up to us to save our self through our own behavior. I ask you, which is the more insult to the spirit of grace....to sin...or to set grace aside and go back to works of law for justification?

Heb.10:39..."But we are not of those who draw back to perdition but of those who believe to the saving of the soul".
Believe what? the gospel, or the lie that we are our own savior? This is the victory that overcomes the world..Our faith. (1John 5:4)

 

[IBeMe]

williemac: Thank you. I did just that and here are some excerpts from the very first search result:

Like I said, you're just a copy and paste guy.

This "grace of our God into lasciviousness" doctrine isn't new, so you'll be able to find a lot more experienced help, to copy and paste.

Won't do you any good ... the word of God doesn't change ... we're even warned that this doctrine would be creeping around.

"For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."

williemac: As for serving Satan, this is a bold and presumptuous accusation you are making ...

Not at all, the Bible leaves absolutely no doubt.

"He that committeth sin is of the devil"

Sinning gives glory to Satan.

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do."

While you're enjoying fulfilling all them lusts ... guess who the boss is? ... You guessed it, Satan.

It's for sure you're not serving God while you're letting all them lust take dominion and compel you to perversions of God's creation, deliberate defiance of God's Word.

No, Jesus didn't die so that we could entertain demons.
Demons don't have flesh, so I guess they get some kind of thrill in compelling willing participants in various acts of perversion of God's creation.

Note: perversion isn't holiness.

God's just looking for a few good men and women willing to take hold of all the POWER He's handing us and defeat Satan, like Jesus showed us.

Those willing to do that are going to be like jewels.

It's for sure, Jesus isn't going to present a bunch of pansy punks, playing around with their lusts and entertaining demons, to the Father.


.

to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight

 

[williemac]

First you tell me to Google and look something up, something which I actually do know how to do, thank you very much....then when I do and the results expose you error, what do you do? You simply insult me...again... and ignore the findings of the experts, as well as continue to ignore the scriptures.

My experience with legalists is that they are usually abrasive and condescending, mean spirited, and condemning, towards people they do not even know enough about to have any idea as to who they are talking. No wonder. Isn't it ironic that they accuse the brethren of serving the accuser of the brethren?

I agree about one thing. No sinner will enter the kingdom of heaven. But as John said, we should not sin, but if we do, we have an advocate with the Father (1John2:1). Jesus will stand in the gap with His precious blood and plead the case for any of His own who sin. This is because we have a new nature, and whether we walk successfully all the time in this new nature or fail from time to time, in the end, our flesh will be gone and our new man will remain, fully righteous as he is now, and fully holy as he is now, and full of everlasting life as he is now, thanks to the new birth by faith, and this new man will enter into heaven.

Jesus, in John 5:24 promised that those who believe in Him will not come unto judgment but have everlasting life, having passed from death to life.

My friend, your whole doctrine has its focus on the outside of the cup. There was a man who did just that, and when he prayed to God, boasting about all his accomplishments, he did not go away justified. But he who humbled himself, confessed his sin, and asked for mercy did. For the proud will be abased and the humble exalted (Luke 18:10-14). Beware! God is glorified by His works, not by ours.

 

[IBeMe]

williemac: ... then when I do and the results expose you error ...

No results showed any error.

It was incoherent.

It just looked like you copy and pasted a bunch of text you found somewhere.
I couldn't tell what the point was.

williemac: My experience with legalists is that they are usually abrasive and condescending, mean spirited, and condemning, towards people they do not even know enough about to have any idea as to who they are talking. No wonder. Isn't it ironic that they accuse the brethren of serving the accuser of the brethren?

I guess this is supposed to be a clever way of launching a personal attack.

You'll notice I haven't responded to any of your personal attacks.

I just get bored with that stuff.

williemac: But as John said, we should not sin, but if we do, we have an advocate with the Father (1John2:1).

Yes, if we sin through ignorance as we learn and grow in the Word.

If we've wronged a brother, or they us; we're to be patient and forgiving and not judgmental. Right our wrongs ... apologize, ask for forgiveness. Dwell together in pease. Let not the sun go down on our wrath ... straighten out differences.

If we sin willfully against God's commandments, we face "certain" judgment and punishment.

As Jesus puts it, "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."

Paul says, "counted the blood of the covenant ... an unholy thing ... hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Willful sins are done with the knowledge that we know we are breaking the commandments of God.
We can also become willfully ignorant, if we neglect our spiritual growth.

If we sin willfully, we face God's judgment and punishment.

If we repent and cease and except God's judgment and punishment, then we may find mercy; that's up to God.

If we continue in sin, we're not serving God, we're serving Satan.

williemac: Jesus will stand in the gap with His precious blood and plead the case for any of His own who sin

BS.
Jesus says you don't love Him if you don't keep His commandments.
If a person goes back into sin, they're serving Satan and entertaining demons with their little lust thrills.

God is a holy God ... Not interested in Satan's pansies.

The Bible says that you've counted the blood of the convent an unholy thing.

williemac: This is because we have a new nature, ...

We're born again of the Spirit when we ask Jesus into our heart.

But, the Spirit won't stick around if a person is entertaining demons with their little lust thrills.
Jesus says the demon will return and find an empty house and have a whole bunch of his demon buddies come and join him.

If you're sinning, you belong to Satan ... he's you daddy and you'll do what he tells you to do.

This is really stupid doctrine.
You're trying to say that sinning is serving God.

How stupid?

If you sin ... you're serving Satan ... he's your boss.

God has no interest in folks playing around with their lusts and entertaining frog like spirits.

 

[williemac]

No results showed any error.

It was incoherent.

It just looked like you copy and pasted a bunch of text you found somewhere.
I couldn't tell what the point was.



I guess this is supposed to be a clever way of launching a personal attack.

You'll notice I haven't responded to any of your personal attacks.

I just get bored with that stuff.



Yes, if we sin through ignorance as we learn and grow in the Word.

If we've wronged a brother, or they us; we're to be patient and forgiving and not judgmental. Right our wrongs ... apologize, ask for forgiveness. Dwell together in pease. Let not the sun go down on our wrath ... straighten out differences.

If we sin willfully against God's commandments, we face "certain" judgment and punishment.

As Jesus puts it, "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."

Paul says, "counted the blood of the covenant ... an unholy thing ... hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Willful sins are done with the knowledge that we know we are breaking the commandments of God.
We can also become willfully ignorant, if we neglect our spiritual growth.

If we sin willfully, we face God's judgment and punishment.

If we repent and cease and except God's judgment and punishment, then we may find mercy; that's up to God.

If we continue in sin, we're not serving God, we're serving Satan.



BS.
Jesus says you don't love Him if you don't keep His commandments.
If a person goes back into sin, they're serving Satan and entertaining demons with their little lust thrills.

God is a holy God ... Not interested in Satan's pansies.

The Bible says that you've counted the blood of the convent an unholy thing.



We're born again of the Spirit when we ask Jesus into our heart.

But, the Spirit won't stick around if a person is entertaining demons with their little lust thrills.
Jesus says the demon will return and find an empty house and have a whole bunch of his demon buddies come and join him.

If you're sinning, you belong to Satan ... he's you daddy and you'll do what he tells you to do.

This is really stupid doctrine.
You're trying to say that sinning is serving God.

How stupid?

If you sin ... you're serving Satan ... he's your boss.

God has no interest in folks playing around with their lusts and entertaining frog like spirits.

You are speaking in absolute terms, my friend. It is a though you are saying that a person is either in 100% sin or 100% righteousness, and this is just not the case. The fact is that you yourself will likely admit that you sin. Unless you are actually not one who confesses his sin to God on a regular basis, as some use 1John 1:9 to validate. But the opposite of that would be that you claim that you have no sin at all and walk in perfect righteousness all the time. This would be equivalent to a laughable denial of the truth.

It seems that you fail to understand the concept that I am presenting.

But lets clear up a few things. I never attacked you. I was defending myself from your onslaught of accusations. You use unfair and demeaning words that I suppose are somehow meant to show how I am invalid and therefore my stance is invalid. That is a cheap trick in the world of winning arguments.

As well, that which I cut and pasted, if you cared to read what it says, supports my interpretation of Rom.3. You couldn't tell what the point was? C'mon...your not stupid....maybe you were not interested in the point! And calling me a cut and paste kind of guy is just another cheap shot. It would imply that I do it frequently. The fact is, that was a first time. But even if it wasn't, there's nothing wrong with doing it, contrary to your suggestion.

Back to the concept. Sinning does not serve God. Nor does it serve Satan. People serve God. People serve Satan.

We have needs and we have desires. We serve ourselves when we eat, drink fluids, provide shelter, enjoy recreation, have a holiday, take time off, etc. If a person has a perceived need, this is fine. Problems arise when a person has a perceived lack. This creates stress, and sin ultimately arises from a person's attempt to fulfill himself (case in point, Eve's deception and failure). But we all come from different and various backgrounds. Some are more educated, some are more well brought up, others are variously dysfunctional, poor, abused, oppressed, and highly indoctrinated in lies and error.
We all show up at God's door with whatever baggage we have and He welcomes us all. Some people breeze on through with flying colors. But most continue with one struggle or another. But we all have a starting point and we all are headed to perfection at various paces and successes.

For us to accept that it just boils down to "behave yourself or be judged and condemned"...we would have to digress to the time before the age of grace, before the new covenant, and before the cross; a time of law and punishment.

The truth is that Jesus has reserved the right to rebuke and chasten those who are His. This is a all far cry from the crap that is coming from your posts, my friend.

Read His dealings with those whom He called His servants in Rev.2:20. They were in sexual immorality. Rather than just condemn them, He recognized the source of their actions and warned them that if they did not repent He would put them into great tribulation. No one enjoys tribulation. This is what chastening looks like. Again, a far cry from what you are describing God would be doing. God reserves the right to correct His children, the same as we as parents do. Jesus also promised He would complete that which he began in us. And this is largely (not entirely) in spite of ourselves.

Those who are bearing fruit for the right reasons are doing it because they have life. Those who are behaving themselves just to preserve their salvation, may well do it because they perceive they lack it.

Read John 5:24. The key is not to pass God's judgement. The key to our survival is to be exempt from it.

The truth is, that no one will survive His judgment, not even the most righteous behaving person. We all require the same grace in God's promise to REMOVE His judgment. That is our only hope.

Further to this, before this gets any uglier than what is appropriate for believers, I feel I need to clarify what I am trying to accomplish. I have no dispute concerning how we are suppose to behave as Christians. It is not the nature of our behavior that I am trying to challenge or change. Rather, the main difference that I see in our covenant with God compared to the previous one, is in the motivation for what we do or don't do.

Agree or not with this perspective, I find it sad that the recourse some turn to is to accuse myself and others of promoting or condoning sinful behavior, when there is absolutely no evidence of that in anything I have said in my replies and posts.

I think the removal of judgment and wrath from a person who has no interest in righteousness, is a fruitless strategy. And so I don't imagine that God had or has any intention of implementing that strategy. But I also insist that the presence of sin in a person does not automatically reveal his heart in this matter. Case in point, Rom.7. Case in point Luke 18:10-14. I will leave it at that.

 

[IBeMe]

williemac: This would be equivalent to a laughable denial of the truth.

Jesus is THE TRUTH ... believe Jesus.

"For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

williemac: It seems that you fail to understand the concept that I am presenting.

I understand it 100%.

You're trying to turn Grace into lasciviousness.

"For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."

williemac: Back to the concept. Sinning does not serve God. Nor does it serve Satan. People serve God. People serve Satan.

People who sin are serving Satan.
Satan is their daddy.

"He that committeth sin is of the devil"

williemac: This creates stress, and sin ultimately arises from a person's attempt to fulfill himself (case in point, Eve's deception and failure).

Trying to make sinners look like innocent victims?

People sin because they don't love Jesus.

"He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings"

They want to feel the thrill of that lust fulfilled, entertaining demons who cheer for more, more, more.

williemac: We all show up at God's door with whatever baggage we have and He welcomes us all. Some people breeze on through with flying colors. But most continue with one struggle or another. But we all have a starting point and we all are headed to perfection at various paces and successes.

You're just making this up (lying).

"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

I'll have you to know that the Kingdom of Heaven is a very exclusive place.

Won't be any of those folks that like to play around with their lusts and entertain demonic frog like spirits, running around ... can't get in the gate.

williemac: But we all have a starting point and we all are headed to perfection at various paces and successes.

This won't come as a surprise ... You're telling a not-truth.

There's two final destinations, one good and the other bad.

Folks that like to live by the thrill of their lusts; they get the bad, and it's real bad.

williemac: Read His dealings with those whom He called His servants in Rev.2:20. They were in sexual immorality.

As you know, you're twisting that scripture.

Christians who fail to expose false doctrine, which you spew, will be held accountable.

"Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols."

You're trying to turn Grace into lasciviousness.

"For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."

williemac: Those who are bearing fruit for the right reasons are doing it because they have life. Those who are behaving themselves just to preserve their salvation, may well do it because they perceive they lack it.

Dripping bêtise.

Those who do what God says to do, do it because God says to do it.
Thus, it's not their works, but God's works that get done.

Those who don't keep the commandments of God, would rather play with their lusts and entertain demons.
The only fruit they bear is sin and death.

God can't use anybody playing around with demons.

"He that committeth sin is of the devil"

williemac: The truth is, that no one will survive His judgment, not even the most righteous behaving person.

Nah, Nah, Nah!

It's easy and fun to keep the commandments of God.

Folks that really sell out to serve God and honor His righteous commandments, have the power of God inside them.

"If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."

We send that putrid frog like spirit, Satan, slithering back into the dark.

It's easy to keep the commands of God.
BUT, a person must make up their mind to sell out 100% ... after that, they own all the promises in the Word of God.

 

[williemac]

Well, this was predictable. I can usually predict a person's personality by his doctrine. Nothing here but abrasive judgmental ism. A likely reflection of one's viewpoint of God. You are not believing the passages I am showing you, but merely making up your own version of their intent. But in all fairness, you are probably just repeating the words you hear from the pulpit. You come across like a UPC disciple. They are considered to be a cult, steeped in legalism. One thing that all cults have in common is this idea of exclusiveness.

Just to show how far off you are, I will remind you of John's vision while in exile. He saw a multitude standing before the throne which no man could number. God's promise to Abraham was that his seed would be numbered as the sand of the sea. This so called exclusive few that you imagine you are part of is much larger than your indoctrinated mind can comprehend. This is because you believe that it is up to people to save themselves. This narrow road that Jesus commented on was a temporary problem. This is why the covenant changed. Man could not keep it to the satisfaction of the law. The law is a zero tolerance standard that no one could keep nor can keep even today. But Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to all who believe (Rom.10:4)

In order to fulfill His promise to Abraham it was necessary for God to broaden the road.

The yoke of Jesus is easy and light because it is comprised of His version of how one gets saved. By faith and faith alone.

You mock my statement of sinners as though they are victims, but Rom.ch.5 reveals that it was one man (Adam) that threw us all into our helpless state of sin and death, and therefore to even things out, God made it so that it is also by One man's obedience that people are given the gift of righteousness. If you by your own obedience are playing any part in being declared righteous by God, then Paul was wrong, and there are at least two men credited in your receiving life from God.

But you go ahead and keep boasting about how wonderful you are and we'll see how God responds to it. (refer to Luke 18:10-14)

Love is the fulfillment of the law. I hope for your sake that there is love flowing out of you for your brother and neighbor and even your enemy. Otherwise you would be just making a loud noise, as Paul described it. But not to worry. My computer's volume is turned down.

 

[ENOCH2010]

So IBM you are sinless?

 

[williemac]

So IBM you are sinless?

I would also like to know his answer to that. He keeps talking about the virtues of not sinning, but righteousness and fulfillment of law are not about what we don't do but what we are doing.

 

[Dodo_David]

This thread has become an ugly case of people attacking each other. Thus, I am locking this thread.