Christ as the firstborn

[Vengle]

Now that by virtue of that picture given us in Adam and Eve we have a more correct picture of the relationship of Jesus to his Father, let’s talk about how it can be said, “And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.” (Colossians 1:17) How simple is this now that our mind knows to go to the picture of Eve bearing Adam’s seed in her womb, it being shaped in her, by her, and through her?

Do you now see how horrible it has been to have these simple truths hidden from you?

Colossians 1:15-16 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"

Our mind now more clearly sees the process in the womb of Eve.

This picture is used also in other ways such as comparing the earthly fleshly physical Jerusalem to a mother whose children were being grown to God in her womb, even as Paul has in mind at Galatians 1:15.

There we see he is talking about the woman he also describes for us in Galatians 4: 19-31.

Compare also: Galatians 1: 13,14, 17 and 1 Corinthians 15: 3-10 paying attention to particularly 1 Corinthians 15:8 to relate it to Galatians 1:15.

As you learn these simpler truths such as I have discussed here in my last few posts, you will find that the more you see, the more you will be able to see. And it will not be at all strained but will make perfect sense.

 

[Comm.Arnold]

Good thread guys, I literally need to go pop some popcorn.

 

[Vengle]

Good thread guys, I literally need to go pop some popcorn.

That sure sounds good!!! Thank you for mentioning it. I love popcorn and have not had any for a long while.

I believe I will go buy some.

 

[Comm.Arnold]

That sure sounds good!!! Thank you for mentioning it. I love popcorn and have not had any for a long while.

I believe I will go buy some.

Amen brother :lol:

 

[Insight]

Good thread guys, I literally need to go pop some popcorn.

I love to sit with my children and eat popcorn while watching a cartoon.

If you knew me personally, I am a big kid at heart yes I struggle to put away childish things

I know this thread has been branded a love-feast by those who desire not to enter.

Thank you Comm for not being "distant" and fearful of entering!

To the others reading, you may like to look at a parable of Jesus. Luke 15:25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32

How will you finish the parable being the elder son?

Insight

 

[Insight]

Vengle, what is the likihood of two sons of God meeting in a forum and sharing a like mind? We span a distance of some 25,000 kilometers!

It only dawned on me today when reading Comm's post that very few ever agree in these forums, almost like we enter with minset of "seeking disagreement" and somehow feel empowered when the argument is won or disatisfied upon losing.

Futile really!

I am guilty of this myself.

Insight

 

[Vengle]

Vengle, what is the likihood of two sons of God meeting in a forum and sharing a like mind? We span a distance of some 25,000 kilometers!

It only dawned on me today when reading Comm's post that very few ever agree in these forums, almost like we enter with minset of "seeking disagreement" and somehow feel empowered when the argument is won or disatisfied upon losing.

Futile really!

I am guilty of this myself.

Insight

Zephaniah 3:9 "For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD (Yahweh), to serve him with one consent."

I am looking forward to seeing it happen more often.

In a spiritual sense I believe we have seen this happening: Jeremiah 5:15 "Lo, I will bring a nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the LORD: it is a mighty nation, it is an ancient nation, a nation whose language thou knowest not, neither understandest what they say."

 

[Insight]

Vengle.

I am going to start a new thread shortly on a study I completed some months back.

I am sure you and others will find of interest.

Insight

 

[veteran]

Denial that Jesus The Christ was fully God and fully man at His first coming really is... of the modern doctrines of Gnosticism.

 

[Insight]

Denial that Jesus The Christ was fully God and fully man at His first coming really is... of the modern doctrines of Gnosticism.

I find it rather amusing and sad how a man of your intellect is able to type a sentence, which himself cannot reconcile with clear concise meaning.

How can Divine essence dwell in sin's flesh, that which is corrupting and breaking down and ends in death?

Explain in simple terms.

 

[Insight]

Veteran, I am happy for you to label me with whatever name you chose, but know this, that Trinitarian teaching has absolutely no foundation in the Bible, what-so-ever!

If being a Gnostic, Hermit or a Grommet means entry to the Kingdom.

So be it!

 

[BibleScribe]

... if denying Jesus is GOD, and Jesus takes exception to it, then it won't be a label which is your concern.



BibleScribe

 

[Insight]

Of course Veteran we have free will to decide whether we fill our minds with doctrines and traditions of men or discover truth. You can allow creeds to form your understanding or Bible Principles.

Everyone here has that choice.

Insight

p.s BibleScribe you are still off my radar for obvious reasons.

 

[Insight]

Even the Apostle Paul was labelled as belonging to a cult.

Do you think he will be saved

 

[Vengle]

Of course Veteran we have free will to decide whether we fill our minds with doctrines and traditions of men or discover truth. You can allow creeds to form your understanding or Bible Principles.

Everyone here has that choice.

Insight

p.s BibleScribe you are still off my radar for obvious reasons.

There is the crux of the matter. As Jim Staley said in his video 'The Truth or Tradition', "Satan cannot change the truth (as that would be too obvious and we would know it) so the only thing he can do is add to it." Satan's way is to complicate and hide that truth.

Anyone ought to be able and see that the history of the Catholic church adding to church doctrine with pagan concept is clear and undeniable. To put any faith in those Catholic counsels which defined the Trinity doctrine is like going to the robber who is about to rob you and asking for his advice on how to secure your home.

(Deuteronomy 12: 3, 4, 8, 29-30, 31, 32; Leviticus 18:30; Mark 7:7)

 

[veteran]

I find it rather amusing and sad how a man of your intellect is able to type a sentence, which himself cannot reconcile with clear concise meaning.

How can Divine essence dwell in sin's flesh, that which is corrupting and breaking down and ends in death?

Explain in simple terms.

God ordained Christ's death on the cross for His Salvation Plan before the foundations of this world, which is taught in several NT Scriptures by Paul, Peter, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Per the OT prophets, God foretold exactly HOW that would happen, even through His prophet David a thousand years prior (Ps.22).

And that subject in the Book of Hebrews is that Christ's state in the flesh was created just for that purpose, to die on the cross to defeat death and the devil for us...

Heb 2:14-18
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily He took not on Him the nature of angels; but He took on Him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved Him to be made like unto His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that He Himself hath suffered being tempted, He is able to succour them that are tempted.
(KJV)


Obviously, none other than Jesus The Christ could defeat death and the devil FOR US by being born in the flesh to sacrifice Himself upon the cross.

Easily then, we know there was a specific involving His flesh state unlike ours, for He was without sin, and His Sacrifice defeated death and the devil, not for Himself, but to deliver all those to eternal Life who would believe on The Father through Him. Only The God could ever do that.

To deny that is to default to the idea that there's 'another' way of Salvation unto Eternal Life. The Gnostics denied Christ as God in the flesh by denying His death and Resurrection, and thus denied the Way of Salvation God ordained before the foundation of this world through His Son. That's why they turned to other ideas, like the ability to do one's own Salvation through practice of mysticism and spiritual gnosis, which is actually the same ideas pagan eastern religions have held to for thousands of years, as also with those initiated into the ancient 'mystery school' arcana.

 

[Vengle]

Curious Veteran, define the terms "from the foundation of the world", and "before the foundation of the world", so we can be more precisely certain what you told us in your opening comment to post #436.

In other words, when do you see the world as founded and who founded it?

Also was it holy when founded or was it founded in sin?

 

[Insight]

God ordained Christ's death on the cross for His Salvation Plan before the foundations of this world, which is taught in several NT Scriptures by Paul, Peter, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Per the OT prophets, God foretold exactly HOW that would happen, even through His prophet David a thousand years prior (Ps.22).

And that subject in the Book of Hebrews is that Christ's state in the flesh was created just for that purpose, to die on the cross to defeat death and the devil for us...

Heb 2:14-18
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily He took not on Him the nature of angels; but He took on Him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved Him to be made like unto His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that He Himself hath suffered being tempted, He is able to succour them that are tempted.
(KJV)


Obviously, none other than Jesus The Christ could defeat death and the devil FOR US by being born in the flesh to sacrifice Himself upon the cross.

Easily then, we know there was a specific involving His flesh state unlike ours, for He was without sin, and His Sacrifice defeated death and the devil, not for Himself, but to deliver all those to eternal Life who would believe on The Father through Him. Only The God could ever do that.

To deny that is to default to the idea that there's 'another' way of Salvation unto Eternal Life. The Gnostics denied Christ as God in the flesh by denying His death and Resurrection, and thus denied the Way of Salvation God ordained before the foundation of this world through His Son. That's why they turned to other ideas, like the ability to do one's own Salvation through practice of mysticism and spiritual gnosis, which is actually the same ideas pagan eastern religions have held to for thousands of years, as also with those initiated into the ancient 'mystery school' arcana.

I applaud you for talking to the nature of Christ Veteran; very few Trinitarian believers do so; Nomad did not do so once!

This below comment needs further thought in light of Matt 1:1 Rom 1:3 Gal 4:4 Rom 8:3 Heb 2:14,15 2 Cor 5:21 and so on...

Easily then, we know there was a specific involving His flesh state unlike ours,

Your problem is with Matt 1:1 the very first verse of the NT cannot be explained with your present understanding.

For how can God be the son of two sinners?

AND

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh Rom 1:3

It’s one thing to say he was of the genealogy of David, but to make specific reference to David’s flesh?

Why so?

AND

For verily Jesus took NOT on him the nature of angels; but Jesus took on him the nature of Abraham. Heb 2:16

"what was Abraham & David's nature? Sin's Flesh or another type of Flesh?

And why?

AND


For he (God) hath made him (Jesus) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him (Jesus). 2 Cor 5:21

But let’s translate this passage through a Trinitarian filter.

For God hath made God to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in God. 2 Cor 5:21

Is this right?

Is this what you all believe?

AND

“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” (Galatians 5:24)

Could Jesus ask you to do this Veteran "if" he did not do this himself?

Insight

 

[veteran]

John 17:5
5 And now, O Father, glorify Thou Me with Thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was.
(KJV)

John 17:24
24 Father, I will that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am; that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast given Me: for Thou lovedst Me before the foundation of the world.
(KJV)

1 Pet 1:19-20
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
(KJV)

Eph 1:4-5
4 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
(KJV)

Eph 3:9
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, Who created all things by Jesus Christ:
(KJV)

Eph 3:11
11 According to the eternal purpose which He purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
(KJV)

2 Tim 1:9-10
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, Who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
(KJV)

Titus 1:2
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
(KJV)

 

[Insight]

Veteran,

Why are you so reluctant to address the Masters nature?

You have posted verses without showing an understanding or asking us questions.

Now post #438 is waiting for you to honestly deal with the passages, content and questions.

If you are unsure just ask.

I am not going to judge you for not knowing or for asking.

Insight