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Only error needs to be defended...I would rather contend for truth.
All that you say, Vengle, can just as well be applied to you, depending on one would see you.
That's a silly play on words to prop oneself up. Once again, we see someone claiming themselves right on the sole basis of the fact they believe they are right. What's that called? Measuring yourself by yourself.
Philippians 1:17
but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel.
1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;
All that you say, Vengle, can just as well be applied to you, depending on one would see you.
That's a silly play on words to prop oneself up. Once again, we see someone claiming themselves right on the sole basis of the fact they believe they are right. What's that called? Measuring yourself by yourself.
Philippians 1:17
but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel.
1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;
Jesus is God AND the firstborn of a new creation.
[sup]1[/sup] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [sup]2[/sup] He was in the beginning with God.
Yes, I do apply that first to myself. But of course you have know way to know that.
Be careful not to take offense at words for even if I should tell you that you are ignorant of something it only means the same as it does for myself, that there are things you do not know. (James 1:19-20; Proverbs 18:19)
None of this explains how God to whom throughout the scriptures it says all things already belong needs in any way to inherit anything?
How does one who already owns everything inherit anything from anyone?
How does one who already owns everything inherit anything from anyone?
Your objection is nothing but a philosophical presupposition that finds no support in Scripture. Ever hear of the Fall? Christ inherits all that he redeemed through the cross. He inherits all that he set free from bondage and futility. Notice in verse 20, below, who it was that willingly subjected creation to this fate in order to redeem it. It was God himself. It's that simple.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
Rom 8:17 and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
Rom 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
Rom 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope
Rom 8:21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Do you not get that because all things (including ourselves) already belonged to God He had full right to destroy all then and there?
Do you not get that Scripture tells us very plainly that God willingly subjected all creation to futility and corruption and then redeemed it. By your own reasoning then, God cannot be God. He owned it all. He let it all fall. Then he redeemed it all. Imagine that, Vengle! You can ignore Scripture in favor of your philosophical presuppositions if you like, but I think you're in a real quandary.
Your objection is nothing but a philosophical presupposition that finds no support in Scripture. Ever hear of the Fall? Christ inherits all that he redeemed through the cross. He inherits all that he set free from bondage and futility. Notice in verse 20, below, who it was that willingly subjected creation to this fate in order to redeem it. It was God himself. It's that simple.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
Rom 8:17 and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
Rom 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
Rom 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope
Rom 8:21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
If I am correct in suggesting you believe God (single persona) in wisdom allowed creation to be subject to vanity so that God (single persona) could redeem it for an inheritance. . .
Well, your "suggestion" would be incorrect. Where have I ever said that God is a "single persona?" I'm a Trinitarian Insight, not a unitarian.
Jesus faithfully speaks the Word of God to reveal the Father and that is what John 1:1 is telling us.
Oh, Vengle, John 1:1 is telling us a bit more than that. It tells us that not only was the Word with God, it tells us that the Word was God. This is very multi-personal, (even Trinitarian) language. Would you like for me to explain to you and Insight the Greek behind the very clear text of John 1:1? It's very simple, really. Even a first year Greek student could explain it. That reminds me. My offer to formally debate the doctrine of the Trinity to any who are willing is still valid. What do you say guys? Are you game? I can set it all up. Just say the word.
You can show me anything you want but I have studied the Biblical languages at some length. So it is unlikely you can show me anything other than what I was probably aware of long before you.
O.k. Vengle, so you're out. Maybe Insight has finally found enough time to accept my challenge. I'll wait.
Well if your plan was to do an 180 degree shift and claim that Maffat's translation that "the Word was divine" means Jesus is God then you may as well forget that to. Men are able to bear the image of God too and that is all it means to be divine.
2 Peter 1:4 "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."