What makes you think he died for your sins. That is for Christ to decide.
That's like, the central tenet of Christianity man. To believe He died for our sins. If you don't believe that, you don't have faith.
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What makes you think he died for your sins. That is for Christ to decide.
…When we come to Jesus and repent of our inability to be righteous and know He is stronger and need His power inside us, that is when He cleanses us of all unrighteousness,…
I don't believe he died for your sins. But I'm not sure. Can you prove that?
Matthew 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you
I don't believe he died for your sins. But I'm not sure. Can you prove that?
Pardon me, but I don’t quite get what you mean by “repent of our inability to be righteous”?
Also what I understand scriptures is that it is when we come to repentance unto God and faith towards Jesus Christ, the Lord Jesus Christ baptize us with the Holy Spirit, that we are cleansed from all our unrighteousness.
Let me ask a question. Scriptures says that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. What do you understand by that?
Tong
R4002
You are welcome to your opinion, but that is all it is.Tong2020 said: ↑
Peter was talking and referring to false teachers who are among them and those who are with them and who follow them.
There are none that I know of.
But there are certainly scriptures that speaks about the certainty of one’s salvation in Christ Jesus. One such is found in Romans 8:38-39.
With regards Judas Iscariot, while he was chosen to be one of Jesus’ disciples, we learn from Jesus himself the matter about him (Judas). Jesus knew about him. Jesus obviously could not have chosen to save him.
With regards the prodigal son, I’d say such a take on that is a misuse of the parable. For one, the son in the parable was not a story about a son who was saved, who later lost it and then saved again.
With regards Ananias and Sapphira, their case was not a case of them losing salvation.You interpret things in a way that fits your doctrinal beliefs. You make the text agree with you no matter if it is a stretch or not.
Ananias and Sapphira do appear to have lost salvation. The prodigal son was about a child of God being saved, lost and saved again. Until we all started pointing out that little detail about him being lost and dead and then found and "alive again," those promoting OSAS used to use that parable to claim he was always a son and saved. They had to back away from that and now claim it has nothing to do with salvation.
Yes and no. We do not have the assurance we are the elect. Only God knows who they are. We do not have that assurance because we do not know what may happen in our future. We could backslide and never return. So long as we are following Jesus, we all have security, but nobody that continues in willful sin is going to heaven.Tong2020 said: ↑
That’s right, there is security for the elect. And yes, the elect are those that God chose for salvation even before the foundation of the world. So, you do know and believe the truth of the assurance of God’s salvation.
That is not failure. God does not fail because someone does not receive correction. What God is doing is chastising to give people a chance to repent. You are assuming it is failure if they do not repent. I do not look at it like that.Tong2020 said: ↑
What is speculation that you refer to in my post? That God never fails?
Well, God never fails, at least that is my knowledge of God, who is heaven, Him who sent Jesus Christ some 2000 years ago, the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and the apostles. And I believe what God’s words tells me more than anything, more than even what my human eyes tells me.
You seem to have the view that God could fail in His chastisement of His erring children. And that even while you do not find any scriptures that says God could be a failure, more so, specifically in that regard.
It is clearly hypothetical, but the point he is making is that if someone is saved and then returns to their old sinful lifestyle, their final end is worse than if they had never been saved. This is obvious to everyone except those trying to twist the text into knots to defend unconditional security.Tong2020 said: ↑
I will try to show that to you. And I’ll leave the rest up to the Holy Spirit, as it ought to be like so.
2 Pet.2:12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,
2 Peter 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
Who do you say are the “these” in those passages?
2 Peter 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
Now, who are the “they” in verse 20? Are they not the “these” in v.12 & 17?
Now, the mistake is often coming from the reading of v.20, on the phrase “For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ”. Many seems to fail to read “For if”. Such makes the statement hypothetical. Meaning, that which follows the “For if” is hypothetical only. And this is corroborated by what Peter said in v.12 concerning them, that is, they speak evil of the things they do not understand. This tells us that these people actually do not understand anything about what they teach about the gospel or about the Lord Jesus Christ. And such indicates that they are not true believers. For how can they truly believe and be true believers when they know not truth?
Do you not believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins? I do. And not only for me, but for all those whom the Father had given to Him to raise up on the last day unto eternal life, those who find themselves as can come to the Son, as were drawn by the Father, and who did come, truly believing in Him.What makes you think he died for your sins. That is for Christ to decide.
Thank you for your thoughts there.We were still sinners, meaning later we wouldn't be. But that does not mean after we die, but now.Tong2020 said: ↑
Pardon me, but I don’t quite get what you mean by “repent of our inability to be righteous”?
Also what I understand scriptures is that it is when we come to repentance unto God and faith towards Jesus Christ, the Lord Jesus Christ baptize us with the Holy Spirit, that we are cleansed from all our unrighteousness.
Let me ask a question. Scriptures says that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. What do you understand by that?
Revelation 22:11 shows two sets of people. One group going to hell, and one group going to heaven. After death we will remain in the state we died in, either sinners or righteous. There is no purgatory to overcome sin in for a sinner to become righteous.
But we cannot become righteous on our own, no matter how much we study the law. That was the problem depicted in Romans 7:13-25. Why? Because of the sin nature we were born with because of Adam's sin is naturally in opposition to the laws of God. We must realize this inability to be righteous on our own, and ask Jesus to cleanse our very nature. That is when He makes us born again and gives us a new nature that is filled with the power of God. It hates sin, and instead of being in opposition to the law, the laws are written on our new nature making them now part of our instinct to be naturally righteous.
No that's not it. I don't believe he died for my sins either. Only for the people he chooses. If that is us then I am happy.Okay so you're just outright assuming I'm not saved then. Okay. Wonder why. Oh well.
That's enough internet for me today.
I think he'll decide that. I want him to die for my sins though.Do you not believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins? I do. And not only for me, but for all those whom the Father had given to Him to raise up on the last day unto eternal life, those who find themselves as can come to the Son, as were drawn by the Father, and who did come, truly believing in Him.
Tong
R4007
I think he'll decide that. I want him to die for my sins though.Tong2020 said: ↑
Do you not believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins? I do. And not only for me, but for all those whom the Father had given to Him to raise up on the last day unto eternal life, those who find themselves as can come to the Son, as were drawn by the Father, and who did come, truly believing in Him.
No @Tong2020 you can't rest. You must always be righteous and follow Jesus that way. Jesus' is the God of the righteous, not the God of evil.But He already had decided that even before His actual death on the cross more than 2000 years ago. He will die no more.
If you find or have found yourself as can come to Jesus Christ, and did come, truly believing in Him, then you can rest assured, He died for you. For that is what scriptures teach.
Tong
R4010
Do I get it right? You don’t believe that Jesus died for your sins?No that's not it. I don't believe he died for my sins either. Only for the people he chooses. If that is us then I am happy.
Oh but I can and I do rest in God and Jesus Christ. It seems to me that is not the case with you. But not because you can’t, that it follows that the truth is that we can’t rest.No @Tong2020 you can't rest. You must always be righteous and follow Jesus that way. Jesus' is the God of the righteous, not the God of evil.Tong2020 said: ↑
But He already had decided that even before His actual death on the cross more than 2000 years ago. He will die no more.
If you find or have found yourself as can come to Jesus Christ, and did come, truly believing in Him, then you can rest assured, He died for you. For that is what scriptures teach.
No that's not it. I don't believe he died for my sins either. Only for the people he chooses. If that is us then I am happy.
Deuteronomy 32:39I don't want to jump the gun here before I comment.
Would you please briefly outline what your specific understanding of the Salvation process is and what "information" ( writing, chapter/verse/etc.) that you base your understanding on?
Thank you
King James Version
39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
Matthew 25:34
King James Bible
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: