Christ Saved Us... What Do Good Works Do?

[Eternally Grateful]

No, (I think you were complaining that I was "slandering" people and here you are "slandering" me lol): your issue is you don't understand what "under Law" means. I deny we are under Law.

Then why do you not act like it, and preach Grace?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You simply misinterpreted Romans 2:6-16 because you teach works salvation. Perverting the gospel is neither walking by faith or abiding in Christ. You call Christians on this board names, including liar, which is not an example of loving one another either.

see I am not the only one who sees his works..

 

[GracePeace]

You simply misinterpreted Romans 2:6-16 because you teach works salvation. Perverting the gospel is neither walking by faith or abiding in Christ. You call Christians on this board names, including liar, which is not an example of loving one another either.

Hmm... Any plan to explain how those words it explicitly says are being misinterpreted, or were you thinking you would just emptily assert it?

 

[Ritajanice]

see I am not the only one who sees his works..

I see his works also....I see no point in arguing with a fool.as God word says.

 

[GracePeace]

Then why do you not act like it, and preach Grace?

You don't know what being under Law means, apparently.

I never said anyone had to serve by the Law of Moses, I have always and only said we are to serve by Grace, which means to walk by faith or walk after the Spirit.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You don't know what being under Law means, apparently.

I never said anyone had to serve by the Law of Moses, I have always and only said we are to serve by Grace, which means to walk by faith or walk after the Spirit.

Then you admit that people will still sin. If we are perfect. we have no need of grace.. If sin can cause us to lose salvation. then we are under law

you can't have it both ways

 

[GracePeace]

Then you admit that people will still sin. If we are perfect. we have no need of grace.. If sin can cause us to lose salvation. then we are under law

you can't have it both ways

I never said Christians were sinless, but Paul says salvation can be lost by sinning in 1 Co 9:26 - 1 Co 10, so I believe it.

 

[mailmandan]

Hmm... Any plan to explain how those words it explicitly says are being misinterpreted, or were you thinking you would just emptily assert it?

I already have multiple times.

 

[GracePeace]

I already have multiple times.

Go ahead and show me where.

 

[GracePeace]

I already have multiple times.

All I've seen you do is point to some other verse in order to call my understanding of Romans 2 a "delusion", I've not seen you explain HOW it is being misread in its OWN context.

 

[mailmandan]

I never said Christians were sinless, but Paul says salvation can be lost by sinning in 1 Co 9:26 - 1 Co 10, so I believe it.

That's your eisegesis. Show us where Paul said "lose salvation."

 

[GracePeace]

That's your eisegesis. Show us where Paul said "lose salvation."

I agree with Historical Christians that that passage speaks of the loss of salvation on account of the fact that he says he could be disqualified, just as the Jews were--and he says "do not to commit idolatry as they did" because "no idolater has any inheritance in God's Kingdom".

Since he often speaks of faith as a "race", being "disqualified" from the "race" would mean he wasn't "in the faith" anymore. This is because faith is not only a belief, it is supposed to be a walk.

 

[Ritajanice]

1 John 5:13 “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”

God tells the truth and keeps His promises.​

Titus 1:2 “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;”

Belief births you into God’s family.​

John 1:12 “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”

Jesus promised you would not perish.​

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

You are not condemned (reserved for destruction).​

John 3:18 “He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”

You currently have everlasting life.​

John 3:36 “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

You passed from death unto life.​

John 5:24 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

Jesus will not cast you out for any reason.​

John 6:37 “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”

Jesus knows His sheep.​

John 10:27 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:”

Jesus gave you eternal life.​

John 10:28 “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

You are in Jesus’ hand and no one can get you out.​

John 10:28b “neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

The Father placed His hand over the Son’s and no one is more powerful than Him.​

John 10:29 “My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.”

The combined strength of God the Father and God the Son is protecting your soul.​

John 10:30 “I and my Father are one.”

Jesus promised that you would never die.​

John 11:25–26 “Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”

God is your Father.​

Romans 8:15 “For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.”

You are two-fold the Child of God; by birth and by adoption.​

Romans 8:15 “For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.”

The Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit reminding us that we are saved.​

Romans 8:16 “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”

God is the Judge of the soul and He already gave you His verdict.​

Romans 8:31–33 “What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.”

Jesus Christ is at the right hand of the Father making intercession for us.​

Romans 8:34 “Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”

Nothing can separate you from the love of Christ.​

Romans 8:35–39 “Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

You are a new Creature.​

2 Corinthians 5:17 “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”

You are made righteous in Christ.​

2 Corinthians 5:21 “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”

You are sealed with the Holy Spirit.​

Ephesians 1:13–14 “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”

You are saved by grace through faith not by works.​

Ephesians 2:8–9 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

You are kept by the power of God.​

1 Peter 1:5 “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

You are a citizen of Heaven.​

Philippians 3:20 “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:”

You are seated in Heavenly places.​

Ephesians 2:6 “And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:”

 

[mailmandan]

Go ahead and show me where.

For starters see posts #98 and #99.

 

[GracePeace]

God tells the truth and keeps His promises.​

Belief births you into God’s family.​

Jesus promised you would not perish.​

You are not condemned (reserved for destruction).​

You currently have everlasting life.​

You passed from death unto life.​

Jesus will not cast you out for any reason.​

Jesus knows His sheep.​

Jesus gave you eternal life.​

You are in Jesus’ hand and no one can get you out.​

The Father placed His hand over the Son’s and no one is more powerful than Him.​

The combined strength of God the Father and God the Son is protecting your soul.​

Jesus promised that you would never die.​

God is your Father.​

You are two-fold the Child of God; by birth and by adoption.​

The Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit reminding us that we are saved.​

God is the Judge of the soul and He already gave you His verdict.​

Jesus Christ is at the right hand of the Father making intercession for us.​

Nothing can separate you from the love of Christ.​

You are a new Creature.​

You are made righteous in Christ.​

You are sealed with the Holy Spirit.​

You are saved by grace through faith not by works.​

You are kept by the power of God.​

You are a citizen of Heaven.​

You are seated in Heavenly places.​

Yup, and we're told to "remain in Him" (some don't (1 Jn 2:28))--the life is "in His Son" (1 Jn 5:11), so those who don't remain don't retain the life, and we remain in Him by obeying the command 1) believe in the Name of God's Son and 2) love one another (1 Jn 3:23, 24).

 

[Ritajanice]

Yup, and we're told to "remain in Him" (some don't (1 Jn 2:28))--the life is "in His Son" (1 Jn 5:11), so those who don't remain don't retain the life, and we remain in Him by obeying the command 1) believe in the Name of God's Son and 2) love one another (1 Jn 3:23, 24).

How do you remain in him.?..works based again.LOL.

Works will never save you....

You can’t remain in him..unless one is Born Again..

How would “ You” know how to remain in him?

 

[GracePeace]

You remain under the delusion that "repay each person according to his deeds" means each person will receive eternal life based on the merits of his good deeds and earn eternal life. Elsewhere in scripture, the apostle Paul said: Romans 4:4 - Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.

Paul also said that we are saved by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) He also said that it was not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. Furthermore, he said that God saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began. (1 Timothy 1:9) So you have some rethinking to do.


Jude 1:5 - Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. That is the heart of the issue of being an idolater which is descriptive of the unrighteous in 1 Corinthians 6.


That is a lie. More slander on your part. It absolutely is an issue of not inheriting the kingdom of God for the unrighteous and I never said otherwise. You need to stop with the false accusations.


Oh, the irony! Your true colors are really showing now, and I hope you realize that slander is sin and slanderers are mentioned alongside of haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil in Romans 1:30. Through your continued slanderous remarks, you just exposed your heart. (Luke 6:45)

It's common for works-salvationists to confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture. In John 5:28-29, *notice that ALL who come forth unto the resurrection of life (believers - vs. 24) are described as those who have done good and ALL that come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (unbelievers) are described as those who have done evil.

What did Jesus say in John 3:18? - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, (because he has not done enough good deeds? NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Are believers described as "those who have done good" or those who have done evil?" Answer - those who have done good.
Are unbelievers described as those "who have done evil" or "those who have done good?" Answer - those who have done evil.


If one reads Romans 2:5-11 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it’s critical to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved conduct their lives. These works done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving eternal life.

So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.

*Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath.

*Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, but the type of deeds expose our heart condition and salvation status.

These good deeds done out of faith are the fruit, but not the root of salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 3:24-28; 4:4-6; 11:6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).


The one who is continuously (Greek present tense) sowing to his own corrupt, flesh which is opposed to God and unrenewed by the Holy Spirit (descriptive of unbelievers) shall of the flesh reap corruption. Our life here is sowing of one kind or another. But he who sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap everlasting life. In opposition to reaping corruption, eternal life is reaped by those who sow to the Spirit. (descriptive of believers)


1 Corinthians 6:9 - Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. Verses 9 and 10 is 'descriptive' of the unrighteous and not the righteous. You seemed to have missed that.

In Galatians 5:19-21, we read - Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
*You need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine.*

CONTINUED...

Neither addresses the issue in context, you merely rely on another verse in order to discount what Ro 2 teaches. Show me from the context that what I'm saying is a misunderstanding.

 

[mailmandan]

I agree with Historical Christians that that passage speaks of the loss of salvation on account of the fact that he says he could be disqualified, just as the Jews were--and he says "do not to commit idolatry as they did" because "no idolater has any inheritance in God's Kingdom".

Since he often speaks of faith as a "race", being "disqualified" from the "race" would mean he wasn't "in the faith" anymore. This is because faith is not only a belief, it is supposed to be a walk.

You just don't get it.

 

[mailmandan]

Neither addresses the issue in context, you merely rely on another verse in order to discount what Ro 2 teaches. Show me from the context that what I'm saying is a misunderstanding.

It was in context and in harmony with the scriptures I cited.

 

[GracePeace]

How do you remain him.?..works based again.LOL.

Already explained 1 Jn 3:23,24 says 1) believe on the Name of God's Son, and 2) love one another. If you want to denigrate that as "works", that's fine, but, again, your view has no way of reconciling Ro 8:1 with Ro 14:23, or accounting for the fact that Paul (in 1 Th 4:8) warns the immoral God can decide to withhold His Spirit (bc only those abiding in Christ are supplied the Spirit (1 Jn 3:23,24)).