Christ vs the anti-Christ: Who is winning?

[Bobby Jo]

You are really silly and an angry woman.

Bobby Jo
Member, Male, from United States​

I'm a man.

So you seem to be wrong on a lot of things ...


Bobby Jo

 

[tzcho2]

Bobby Jo
Member, Male, from United States​

I'm a man.

So you seem to be wrong a a lot of things ...


Bobby Jo

Ok , pardon. This is a Christian debate forum, I answered a question to someone else and it ticked you off , well sorry, but I was speaking the facts whether you like it or not is beside the point. I have done my research & I recommend that you try it before you just get reactive and launch into insults.

 

[CoreIssue]

Bobby Jo
Member, Male, from United States​

I'm a man.

So you seem to be wrong a a lot of things ...


Bobby Jo

Southern names are not in line with most the country.

Although I've never heard of Bobby Jo for a man.

My first name is commonly Southern. The normal for the rest of the country differs slightly.

It has give me a lot of problems over the years on legal and other documents.

 

[tzcho2]

Bobby JMember, Male, from United States​

I'm a man.
So you seem to be wrong a a lot of things ...
Bobby Jo

Are you Roman Catholic?
Tell me what I said that was wrong in your eyes and back it up with scripture example and we can discuss it. Nothing I said about the RCC was untrue.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

You just lied.

Nonsense.

When I confronted you, with proof, Mormonism says the book of Mormon is Scriptures along with Bible you denied it.

^False.
Reality: you repeatedly stated that "Mormons have a different Bible". I repeatedly truthfully answered, "No the 'Mormon Bible' is the KJV. The Book of Mormon is not the Bible". And then have you repeat the same "Mormons have a different Bible" claim later.

You have denied Jesus and Satan are the offspring of God and one of his wives.

Because that claim is false on several fronts, as I have explained many times before and been ignored many times before.

 

[tzcho2]

Nonsense.
^False.
Reality: you repeatedly stated that "Mormons have a different Bible". I repeatedly truthfully answered, "No the 'Mormon Bible' is the KJV. The Book of Mormon is not the Bible". And then have you repeat the same "Mormons have a different Bible" claim later.
Because that is false on several fronts, as I have explained many times before and been ignored many times before.

What he said was in fact the truth. The mormons will call the Book of Mormon scripture, so when they say --Oh Yes we stick only with the scripture , they are including the Book of Mormon, where as a Christian speaking to them would assume they only mean the Bible as scripture.

 

[CoreIssue]

Nonsense.

^False.
Reality: you repeatedly stated that "Mormons have a different Bible". I repeatedly truthfully answered, "No the 'Mormon Bible' is the KJV. The Book of Mormon is not the Bible". And then have you repeat the same "Mormons have a different Bible" claim later.

Because that claim is false on several fronts, as I have explained many times before and been ignored many times before.

The Mormon Scriptures are the Old Testament, New Testament and book of Mormon. They call the book of Mormon the third testament.

So you are lying.

Book of Mormon | LDS.org
The Book of Mormon
Another Testament of Jesus Christ

• 1 Nephi
• 2 Nephi
• Jacob
• Enos
• Jarom
• Omni
• Words of Mormon

• Mosiah
• Alma
• Helaman
• 3 Nephi
• 4 Nephi
• Mormon
• Ether
• Moroni

 

[Jane_Doe22]

What he said was in fact the truth. The mormons will call the Book of Mormon scripture, so when they say --Oh Yes we stick only with the scripture , they are including the Book of Mormon, where as a Christian speaking to them would assume they only mean the Bible as scripture.

The following are too different statements:
1) LDS Christians believe the Book of Mormon is the Bible. This is false. The Book of Mormon is not the Bible, it's the Book of Mormon. LDS Christians use the KJV Bible.
2) LDS Christians believe the Book of Mormon is scripture. This is true, the Book of Mormon is regarded as scripture.
And before you go off on any "sola Biblia" campaign, I'm going to point out that I have never met an actual sola Biblia Christian, as even what the Bible cannon includes is defined by tradition and not the Bible itself. Also, if you accept the Creeds, these are also not the Bible. Most of these "anti-cult" arguments are actually based in Creedal or Protestant Reformer statements.

 

[brakelite]

1 Samuel 8:18 Lexicon: "Then you will cry out in that day because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves, but the LORD will not answer you in that day."

Excellent.

 

[CoreIssue]

Nonsense.

^False.
Reality: you repeatedly stated that "Mormons have a different Bible". I repeatedly truthfully answered, "No the 'Mormon Bible' is the KJV. The Book of Mormon is not the Bible". And then have you repeat the same "Mormons have a different Bible" claim later.

Because that claim is false on several fronts, as I have explained many times before and been ignored many times before.

Doctrine and Covenants 93
21 And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn;

Mormonism says: “We pre-existed as spirit children
Mormonism says: “We pre-existed as spirit children
In Mormon theology, God is accompanied by a Goddess wife—our so-called “Heavenly Mother.” Together, they produce countless ethereal children which Mormons call “spirit children.”

Mormonism's Official Curriculum Material etc.
• “We all once lived in the presence of God the eternal father. In the world before your were a spirit child of his. With this divine parentage, your destiny, through righteous living, is to become like your Father in Heaven and return to his presence” [The Purpose of Life(Pamphlet handed out at BYU campus temple)]
• “A veil covers our memories of our premortal life, but our Father in Heaven knows who we are and what we did before we came here. He has chosen the time and place for each of us to be born so we can learn the lessons we personally need and do the most good with our individual talents and personalities.” [Gospel Principles, Chapter 2: Our Heavenly Family (2011), 8.]

Mormon Authorities
• Joseph Smith (Mormonism's founding president-prophet) “We were first begotten as spirit babies in heaven and then born naturally on earth” [Journal of Discourse, vol. 4, 218.]
• Brigham Young (Mormonism's 2nd president-prophet): “In the spirit world their spirits were first begotten and brought forth, … you could trace back your history to the Father of our spirits in the eternal world. He is a being of the same species as ourselves; He lives as we do, except the difference that we are earthly, and He is heavenly. He has been earthly, and is of precisely the same species of being that we are.” [Journal of Discourses, vol. 4:42]
• Orson Pratt (Original ‘Quorum of the Twelve’ member): “before men and women are born on earth as babies, their spirits are adult size in heaven. When they are born, their Spirits are compressed, which causes a loss in memory” [Journal of Discourses vol.16, 333-334.]

Mormonism teaches: We have a Goddess mother
Mormonism teaches: We have a Goddess mother
As summarized by Milton R. Hunter (Leading 'Council of the Seventy' member): “The stupendous truth of the existence of a Heavenly Mother, as well as a Heavenly Father, became established facts in Mormon theology” [The Gospel Through the Ages (1958), 98.]

Official Curriculum Material etc.
—“WE, THE FIRST PRESIDENCY and the Council... proclaim... Each [person] is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents.” [The Family: A Proclamation to the World (1995)]
—“For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother.” [Achieving A Celestial Marriage, LDS Student Manual, 129.]
—“You are made in the image of our heavenly mother.” [The Latter-day Saint Woman: Basic Manual for Women, Part A: Lesson 9: Chastity and Modesty (2000), 65.]
—“We know, for example, that we were sons and daughters of heavenly parents—males and females”[Gospel Principles, Chapter 2: Our Heavenly Family (2011).]

Official Mormon Hymns:
—“heavenly parents” [“Oh, What Songs of the Heart” (hymn #286)]
—“heav'nly parents” [“We Meet Again As Sisters” (hymn #311)]
—“...I've a mother there. .. Father, Mother, may I meet you In your royal courts on high?” [“O My Father” (hymn #292).]

Mormon Authorities
—Joseph Fielding Smith (Mormonism's 6th president-prophet): “God revealed that principle that we have a mother as well as a father in heaven to Joseph Smith; Joseph Smith revealed it to Eliza Snow Smith, his wife; and Eliza Snow was inspired, being a poet, to put it into verse.” “Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal [physical] body” [Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith (1998), 335.]
—Orson Pratt: “In the Heaven where our spirits were born, there are many gods, each one of whom has his own wife or wives... Each God, through his wife or wives, raises up a numerous family of sons and daughters;... As soon as each god has begotten many millions of male and female spirits …he sends both the male and female spirits to inhabit tabernacles of flesh and bones. … The inhabitants of each world are required to reverence, adore, and worship their own personal father who dwells in the heaven which they formerly inhabited.” [The Seer, 1853 (1990 ed.), vol. 1, 37.]
—Spencer W. Kimball(Mormonism's 12th president-prophet): “queenly elegance of our Heavenly Mother, and knowing how profoundly our mortal mothers have shaped us here” [“The True Way of Life and Salvation,”Ensign (May 1978), 4.]
—Brigham Young (Mormonism's 2nd president-prophet): [In articulating the controversial Adam-God doctrine] “I tell you more, Adam is the father of our spirits …our spirits and the spirits of all the heavenly family were begotten by Adam, and born of Eve. …I tell you, when you see your Father in the Heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bore your spirit, you will see Mother Eve.” [Manuscript Address of Brigham Young, Oct 8, 1854.”]
—Bruce R. McConkie (LDS 'General Authority'): “Implicit in the Christian verity that all men are the spirit children of an Eternal Father is the usually unspoken truth that they are also the offspring of an Eternal Mother. …This doctrine that there is a Mother in Heaven was affirmed in plainness by the First Presidency of the Church… they said that ‘man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father,’ that man is the ‘offspring of celestial parentage,’ and that ‘all men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity’” [Mormon Doctrine (1979), 516.]

GOD HAS SEX WITH HIS GODDESS WIFE/WIVES (PRODUCING CHILDREN)
See here.

JESUS/SATAN/OUR SPIRITS ARE ALL OFFSPRING OF HERS
See here.1

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The Mormon Scriptures are the Old Testament, New Testament and book of Mormon. They call the book of Mormon the third testament.

So you are lying.

Book of Mormon | LDS.org
The Book of Mormon
Another Testament of Jesus Christ

• 1 Nephi
• 2 Nephi
• Jacob
• Enos
• Jarom
• Omni
• Words of Mormon

• Mosiah
• Alma
• Helaman
• 3 Nephi
• 4 Nephi
• Mormon
• Ether
• Moroni

Doctrine and Covenants 93
21 And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn;

Mormonism says: “We pre-existed as spirit children
Mormonism says: “We pre-existed as spirit children
In Mormon theology, God is accompanied by a Goddess wife—our so-called “Heavenly Mother.” Together, they produce countless ethereal children which Mormons call “spirit children.”

Mormonism's Official Curriculum Material etc.
• “We all once lived in the presence of God the eternal father. In the world before your were a spirit child of his. With this divine parentage, your destiny, through righteous living, is to become like your Father in Heaven and return to his presence” [The Purpose of Life(Pamphlet handed out at BYU campus temple)]
• “A veil covers our memories of our premortal life, but our Father in Heaven knows who we are and what we did before we came here. He has chosen the time and place for each of us to be born so we can learn the lessons we personally need and do the most good with our individual talents and personalities.” [Gospel Principles, Chapter 2: Our Heavenly Family (2011), 8.]

Mormon Authorities
• Joseph Smith (Mormonism's founding president-prophet) “We were first begotten as spirit babies in heaven and then born naturally on earth” [Journal of Discourse, vol. 4, 218.]
• Brigham Young (Mormonism's 2nd president-prophet): “In the spirit world their spirits were first begotten and brought forth, … you could trace back your history to the Father of our spirits in the eternal world. He is a being of the same species as ourselves; He lives as we do, except the difference that we are earthly, and He is heavenly. He has been earthly, and is of precisely the same species of being that we are.” [Journal of Discourses, vol. 4:42]
• Orson Pratt (Original ‘Quorum of the Twelve’ member): “before men and women are born on earth as babies, their spirits are adult size in heaven. When they are born, their Spirits are compressed, which causes a loss in memory” [Journal of Discourses vol.16, 333-334.]

Mormonism teaches: We have a Goddess mother
Mormonism teaches: We have a Goddess mother
As summarized by Milton R. Hunter (Leading 'Council of the Seventy' member): “The stupendous truth of the existence of a Heavenly Mother, as well as a Heavenly Father, became established facts in Mormon theology” [The Gospel Through the Ages (1958), 98.]

Official Curriculum Material etc.
—“WE, THE FIRST PRESIDENCY and the Council... proclaim... Each [person] is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents.” [The Family: A Proclamation to the World (1995)]
—“For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother.” [Achieving A Celestial Marriage, LDS Student Manual, 129.]
—“You are made in the image of our heavenly mother.” [The Latter-day Saint Woman: Basic Manual for Women, Part A: Lesson 9: Chastity and Modesty (2000), 65.]
—“We know, for example, that we were sons and daughters of heavenly parents—males and females”[Gospel Principles, Chapter 2: Our Heavenly Family (2011).]

Official Mormon Hymns:
—“heavenly parents” [“Oh, What Songs of the Heart” (hymn #286)]
—“heav'nly parents” [“We Meet Again As Sisters” (hymn #311)]
—“...I've a mother there. .. Father, Mother, may I meet you In your royal courts on high?” [“O My Father” (hymn #292).]

Mormon Authorities
—Joseph Fielding Smith (Mormonism's 6th president-prophet): “God revealed that principle that we have a mother as well as a father in heaven to Joseph Smith; Joseph Smith revealed it to Eliza Snow Smith, his wife; and Eliza Snow was inspired, being a poet, to put it into verse.” “Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal [physical] body” [Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith (1998), 335.]
—Orson Pratt: “In the Heaven where our spirits were born, there are many gods, each one of whom has his own wife or wives... Each God, through his wife or wives, raises up a numerous family of sons and daughters;... As soon as each god has begotten many millions of male and female spirits …he sends both the male and female spirits to inhabit tabernacles of flesh and bones. … The inhabitants of each world are required to reverence, adore, and worship their own personal father who dwells in the heaven which they formerly inhabited.” [The Seer, 1853 (1990 ed.), vol. 1, 37.]
—Spencer W. Kimball(Mormonism's 12th president-prophet): “queenly elegance of our Heavenly Mother, and knowing how profoundly our mortal mothers have shaped us here” [“The True Way of Life and Salvation,”Ensign (May 1978), 4.]
—Brigham Young (Mormonism's 2nd president-prophet): [In articulating the controversial Adam-God doctrine] “I tell you more, Adam is the father of our spirits …our spirits and the spirits of all the heavenly family were begotten by Adam, and born of Eve. …I tell you, when you see your Father in the Heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bore your spirit, you will see Mother Eve.” [Manuscript Address of Brigham Young, Oct 8, 1854.”]
—Bruce R. McConkie (LDS 'General Authority'): “Implicit in the Christian verity that all men are the spirit children of an Eternal Father is the usually unspoken truth that they are also the offspring of an Eternal Mother. …This doctrine that there is a Mother in Heaven was affirmed in plainness by the First Presidency of the Church… they said that ‘man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father,’ that man is the ‘offspring of celestial parentage,’ and that ‘all men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity’” [Mormon Doctrine (1979), 516.]

GOD HAS SEX WITH HIS GODDESS WIFE/WIVES (PRODUCING CHILDREN)
See here.

JESUS/SATAN/OUR SPIRITS ARE ALL OFFSPRING OF HERS
See here.1

Once agin, you completely ignore everything I say, overlook all the false information you've presented, and instead add MORE false info to the pile (like this ridiculous statement "third testament" statement).
I don't know why I bother with you. Enjoy your echo chamber of fiction.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Are you Roman Catholic?

I'm not ANY "Religion" or "Denomination". I'm a Christian, which supersedes BOTH.

Tell me what I said that was wrong in your eyes and back it up with scripture example and we can discuss it. Nothing I said about the RCC was untrue.

My point is that YOUR RELIGION/DENOMINATION is WRONG. So instead of fixing YOUR RELIGION/DENOMINATION, you assail SOMEONE ELSE. You do realize that Scripture says "judge not, lest you be judged", which is to say DON'T BE A HYPOCRITE. If you judge someone for having errors in their doctrine, and you have errors in YOUR doctrine, -- YOU'RE A HYPOCRITE.

Wouldn't life be easier if we simply exhorted each other TOWARD JESUS, instead of criticizing other's because YOU don't think they're as close to Jesus -- according to YOUR uninformed EXPECTATIONS?!?


-- Really --
Bobby Jo

 

[tzcho2]

Once agin, you completely ignore everything I say, overlook all the false information you've presented, and instead add MORE false info to the pile (like this ridiculous statement "third testament" statement).
I don't know why I bother with you. Enjoy your echo chamber of fiction.

Ya, you must belong to the OTHER Mormonism

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Ya, you must belong to the OTHER Mormonism

I a person who loves truthfulness, as I've stated many times.

 

[CoreIssue]

The following are too different statements:
1) LDS Christians believe the Book of Mormon is the Bible. This is false. The Book of Mormon is not the Bible, it's the Book of Mormon. LDS Christians use the KJV Bible.
2) LDS Christians believe the Book of Mormon is scripture. This is true, the Book of Mormon is regarded as scripture.
And before you go off on any "sola Biblia" campaign, I'm going to point out that I have never met an actual sola Biblia Christian, as even what the Bible cannon includes is defined by tradition and not the Bible itself. Also, if you accept the Creeds, these are also not the Bible. Most of these "anti-cult" arguments are actually based in Creedal or Protestant Reformer statements.

Bible means a collection of books. In this case Scriptures.

Trying to give the word Bible is ridiculous.

The simple fact remains the book of Mormon is not Scripture. It writes about a fantasy fiction story that never happened.

The claim that the angel Moroni led Smith to the gold plates is part of the fantasy. Never happened and there is no angel Moroni.

So slice and dice this anyway you wish, it all remains a lie.

The claim Mormonism is a cult is based on the Bible, not on creeds or anything else.

Once caught in a way you cannot escape your trying to spin your way out of it. But you cannot.

Any more than you can claim to be a temple Mormon, which you are not unless you are lying about your gender.

 

[CoreIssue]

I a person who loves truthfulness, as I've stated many times.

Just like Cohen told the truth to the house committee.

 

[tzcho2]

I'm not ANY "Religion" or "Denomination". I'm a Christian, which supersedes BOTH.


My point is that YOUR RELIGION/DENOMINATION is WRONG. So instead of fixing YOUR RELIGION/DENOMINATION, you assail SOMEONE ELSE. You do realize that Scripture says "judge not, lest you be judged", which is to say DON'T BE A HYPOCRITE. If you judge someone for having errors in their doctrine, and you have errors in YOUR doctrine, -- YOU'RE A HYPOCRITE.

Wouldn't life be easier if we simply exhorted each other TOWARD JESUS, instead of criticizing other's because YOU don't think they're as close to Jesus -- according to YOUR uninformed EXPECTATIONS?!?


-- Really --
Bobby Jo

Well, you are not presenting any intelligent argument only insults , pardon me but your angry & shouting insults doesn't move me one bit.
You never answered are you RC?
Because you seem like one angry dude who gets easily riled. You surely don't seem to know anything about the differences in the denominations of Protestants, nor recognize the dangerous teachings of the RCC & you have continued to dodge my previous answers to you by just simply lobing insults & your personal accusations/judgment at me. Ironic you shout hypocrite to me.

No dear man, I'm not a hypocrite, you just don't understand the issues that were brought up. Deal with your anger, man , it's unhealthy for you and those around you and you own it , not me, the anger is within you. Your anger is a symptom. Pray and ask God's help.

 

[tzcho2]

Just like Cohen told the truth to the house committee.

Ain't that the truth? (pun intended) Those that do lie never, admit any dishonesty but will ratchet it up, indignantly claiming they are totally the epitome of virtuous truth, like Cohen, or Smollet , or Zuckerberg as he testified that facebook didn't censor conservatives claiming his social platform was neutral & supports all political viewpoints, while quite obviously being exactly the opposite.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... Pray and ask God's help.

I ain't the one assailing another person's faith. Oh yeah, that would be YOU.


Bobby Jo

 

[tzcho2]

I ain't the one assailing another person's faith. Oh yeah, that would be YOU.


Bobby Jo

Ya, you just try to assail me, but I couldn't care less. Your issues you take with you...