Christadelphians, the Devil and Satan

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Hiddenthings

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@dak I think you started by trying to prove something from Daniel 8 but your "copy and paste text is sufficient", is letting you down.

If you cannot show an answer of the hope which is in you why enter the thread? You have added nothing to the OP and only received the true understanding of Eph 2.

Gather your thoughts and return with something meaningful.
 

dak

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Read your post again and explain what are you trying to prove?

I am only furthering discussion with you by refuting your ongoing rebuttals with scripture. The original point has already been well made: your nonsensical claims about the two princes mentioned in Daniel 10, (Persia and Greece), being humans not true.
 

Hiddenthings

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I am only furthering discussion with you by refuting your ongoing rebuttals with scripture. The original point has already been well made: your nonsensical claims about the two princes mentioned in Daniel 10, (Persia and Greece), being humans not true.
Ah, now you speak, finally! Is this your usual way of engaging with people? Just a friendly tip: you might want to rethink that approach. No charge for the advice.

As for @talons and @Matthias trying to argue for “sinning angels,” I found that pretty amusing. That passage is clearly about humans and the work of Elohim. It’s a no-brainer.
 

dak

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This is very poor on your part. Its the honor of Kings to search out a matter and for now you are showing little honor.

what is added in Matt 12:45?
@dak I think you started by trying to prove something from Daniel 8 but your "copy and paste text is sufficient", is letting you down.

If you cannot show an answer of the hope which is in you why enter the thread? You have added nothing to the OP and only received the true understanding of Eph 2.

Gather your thoughts and return with something meaningful.

First mocking, then false accusations, and now an ongoing campaign in attempted character assassination, and yet no answers or actual scripture proof for much of anything you have asserted.

Nice chatting.
tea.gif
 
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Hiddenthings

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@dak let's leave no stone unturned...Matthews Gospel add “Even so shall it be with this wicked generation”...clearly applying to Israel who suffered with that fleshly "unclean" spirit!
 

Hiddenthings

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First mocking, then false accusations, and now an ongoing campaign in attempted character assassination, and yet no answers or actual scripture proof for much of anything you have asserted.

Nice chatting.
View attachment 67034
How predictable.

Why not just say, “I can’t prove what I believe, and instead of being shown wrong, I’m bowing out”?

There is honor in that.
 

dak

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@dak let's leave no stone unturned...Matthews Gospel add “Even so shall it be with this wicked generation”...clearly applying to Israel who suffered with that fleshly spirit!

I do not deny that, but as I already said: Luke is Paul's Gospel to Paul's congregations.
 

Hiddenthings

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I do not deny that, but as I already said: Luke is Paul's Gospel to Paul's congregations.
It seems you have a particular view about spirits, perhaps imagining them as ethereal beings, when in reality, the text is addressing a mindset: carnal, fleshly, animalistic, and yes, even devilish (if you understand the true meaning of the term).

I would like to say nice chatting, but not really.
 

dak

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How predictable.

Why not just say, “I can’t prove what I believe, and instead of being shown wrong, I’m bowing out”?

There is honor in that.

Anyone who reads our discussion knows what you are doing and has likely seen you do the same to everyone else who has disagreed with you in this thread, (I've been following and have read all of it). It is you who has shown yourself to be very predictable.
 

Hiddenthings

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Anyone who reads our discussion knows what you are doing and has likely seen you do the same to everyone else who has disagreed with you in this thread, (I've been following and have read all of it). It is you who has shown yourself to be very predictable.
The real issue here is evidence, or rather, your lack of it.

It's a mistake to string together isolated verses without a proper understanding of their context. When this is pointed out, people often take offense and walk away. Honestly, I'm a bit surprised you're still here.

If you've been following the thread, you'll have noticed that those arguing for "sinning angels" have presented a very weak case, most seem to be on the back foot before they even begin.

To be honest, I was shocked when Daniel 10 was brought up. This passage offers some of the most powerful insights into angels working in the affairs of men, yet they tried to twist it into a story of heavenly disorder. Honestly, weak!

What this really is, is a desperate attempt to find proof for false teachings completely ignoring what the Word is actually teaching.
 

Hiddenthings

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The irony in this discussion is found in dak's example!

Though the house is clean and beautifully adorned, it's empty of true spirit. That emptiness must be filled.

Romans 5:10; Colossians 2:20–3:2; Galatians 5:16–17

Not for want of trying....
 

dak

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The real issue here is evidence, or rather, your lack of it.

It's a mistake to string together isolated verses without a proper understanding of their context. When this is pointed out, people often take offense and walk away. Honestly, I'm a bit surprised you're still here.

If you've been following the thread, you'll have noticed that those arguing for "sinning angels" have presented a very weak case, most seem to be on the back foot before they even begin.

To be honest, I was shocked when Daniel 10 was brought up. This passage offers some of the most powerful insights into angels working in the affairs of men, yet they tried to twist it into a story of heavenly disorder. Honestly, weak!

What this really is, is a desperate attempt to find proof for false teachings completely ignoring what the Word is actually teaching.
The irony in this discussion is found in dak's example!

Though the house is clean and beautifully adorned, it's empty of true spirit. That emptiness must be filled.

Romans 5:10; Colossians 2:20–3:2; Galatians 5:16–17

Not for want of trying....

The words of the Meshiah are never going to pass away, (Mat 24:35, Mrk 13:31, Luk 21:32-33), whether you believe them or not. Moreover you, even more than others, should have understood that if the Teaching-Instruction of the Meshiah has an impact on our understanding and in our walk, concerning Daniel the Prophet, then the same is true of the Apokalypse, (for the Testimony of the Master is the Spirit of the Prophecy, Rev 19:10).

Luke 11:24-26 KJV
24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

And according to Paul in Ephesians 2:2, the prince of the power of the air, (and spirit of the world), is whom we all formerly served before we entered into the faith/belief that is in Meshiah. That necessarily means that the unclean spirit of the world, the prince of the power of the air, was cast out of us at that time when we first believed: and if so, Luke 11:24-26 warns us that he will return with seven other spirits more wicked than himself.

Revelation 17:9-11 KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

So the first is cast out, but he returns with seven others more wicked than himself, and that is a total of eight, and the eighth is of the seven because he was also the first to be cast out of the man, (for the man is the house). And again, the Testimony of the Master is the Spirit of the prophecy, (see also John 6:63).

I do not believe you have a clue what things you are talking about.
There is so much more but you have closed your ears and eyes.
 

Hiddenthings

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The words of the Meshiah are never going to pass away, (Mat 24:35, Mrk 13:31, Luk 21:32-33), whether you believe them or not. Moreover you, even more than others, should have understood that if the Teaching-Instruction of the Meshiah has an impact on our understanding and in our walk, concerning Daniel the Prophet, then the same is true of the Apokalypse, (for the Testimony of the Master is the Spirit of the Prophecy, Rev 19:10).

Luke 11:24-26 KJV
24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

And according to Paul in Ephesians 2:2, the prince of the power of the air, (and spirit of the world), is whom we all formerly served before we entered into the faith/belief that is in Meshiah. That necessarily means that the unclean spirit of the world, the prince of the power of the air, was cast out of us at that time when we first believed: and if so, Luke 11:24-26 warns us that he will return with seven other spirits more wicked than himself.

Revelation 17:9-11 KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

So the first is cast out, but he returns with seven others more wicked than himself, and that is a total of eight, and the eight is of the seven because he was also the first to be cast out of the man, (for the man is the house). And again, the Testimony of the Master is the Spirit of the prophecy, (see also John 6:63).

I do not believe you have a clue what things you are talking about.
There is so much more but you have closed your ears and eyes.
Copying and pasting without an understanding of the Word will not help you.
 

Hiddenthings

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And according to Paul in Ephesians 2:2, the prince of the power of the air, (and spirit of the world), is whom we all formerly served before we entered into the faith/belief that is in Meshiah.
It's difficult to take your response seriously when your quoted verses don’t align with the point you’re making.

The "spirit" mentioned in the passage is clearly of this world, not a rebellious heavenly angel or any mythical being. Paul is describing a mindset or way of thinking rooted in human nature, not some external, ethereal evil force. As he wrote: "All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts."

So I have to ask, why, in a thread specifically aimed at challenging fallen angel theology, do you continue to post quotes that seem to support it?
 

dak

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It's difficult to take your response seriously when your quoted verses don’t align with the point you’re making.

The "spirit" mentioned in the passage is clearly of this world, not a rebellious heavenly angel or any mythical being. Paul is describing a mindset or way of thinking rooted in human nature, not some external, ethereal evil force. As he wrote: "All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts."

So I have to ask, why, in a thread specifically aimed at challenging fallen angel theology, do you continue to post quotes that seem to support it?

Do you not realize that your own interpretations are almost entirely natural minded?
 

Hiddenthings

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Do you not realize that your own interpretations are almost entirely natural minded?
Actually, the invention of a fallen angel is the machinations of human thinking.

Angels cannot sin because God's divine nature cannot die.

Christ taught you...

"…they (saints) cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection." Luke 20:36

Your hope is defiled if you think you can sin as an immortal.

Also means you have no idea of God, His Realm and those who always do his commands.

Psalm 103:20 states “Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, obeying the voice of his word!

Divine nature, always obeying His Word, Sons of God, cannot die anymore.

I understand why you hold the view you do, the real issue is that you don’t.
 

TrevorHL

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Greetings again Jericho,
In Exodus 21:6, depending how it's translated, they are brought before "God", not earthly rulers. When you look how elohim is generally used, there is always a supernatural association.
I hold the view that Psalm 82:6 is talking about the Judges in Israel and Exodus 21:6 is a key verse. Also the following give some explanation of why the Judges were addressed as Elohim:

John 10:35 (KJV): If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Deuteronomy 1:17 (KJV): Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.

2 Chronicles 19:6 (KJV): And said to the judges, Take heed what ye do: for ye judge not for man, but for the LORD, who is with you in the judgment.


Kind regards
Trevor
 
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Lambano

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I was recently reminded that, for some, the borderline between mental illness and demonic harassment is more than just an academic theological exercise.

:(