Christendom's Teachings verses the Bible

[Ronald Nolette]

Not even close to the Bible's narrative. No one was going to heaven when God created mankind.....this earth was to be our permanent home. Nothing in the Bible argues with that. Adam was not warned about heaven and hell....he was offered only life or death, which meant a return to the dust....nothing more. (Genesis 3:19)

Correct, heaven came later when Jesus brought His church into existence. But after the 1,000 year kingdom, heaven comes down to the recreated earth!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Are you sure of what you just said? "The dead cannot be tormented"....because the dead are actually...DEAD.

But all teh edead are resurrected and cast into the lake where they will be tormented forever and ever. that means they don't stay dead now doesn't it.

 

[Enoch111]

This is a thread designed to evaluate the Bible's teachings against what is accepted in Christendom as such.

Jehovah's Witnesses are in no position to evaluate any false teachings, since the Watchtower Society itself is the source of multiple false teachings. Everything -- in fact -- is a lie.

Also there is "Christendom" on one hand and "Bible Christianity" on the other hand. And Bible Christianity says that Jesus of Nazareth is God. Indeed all the denominations of Christendom believe this to be true. But the JWs and a few other cults reject this. So unless you accept this as Bible doctrine, you will never arrive at the truth. As Paul says, the JWs are "ever learning and NEVER able to come to unto the knowledge of the truth" (2 Tim 3:7).

 

[Aunty Jane]

Well that is the vomit you regurgitate from teh Watchtower but it is wrong.

Heaven comes down to earth and the church will be in heaven as Jesus bride and that number ios far far greater than 144,000

Well actually it’s from the Bible....the Watchtower is a Bible Society whose sole aim and role is to print Bibles and Bible literature......you guys keep making this mistake....like you do about most other things in connection with us.....Jesus knows what that feels like....he told us to expect opposition. (Matthew 5:11-12; John 15:18-21)

What is the vomit you keep regurgitating...? Who is that from? Tell us so that we can examine the teachings of your own “church”....do they agree with those who believe the lies that satan planted so very long ago. What makes your church right and ours wrong? Your opinion? All the best with that because it is Jesus’ opinion as our judge that we should be interested in.....no? (Matthew 7:21-23) Does confidence make someone right?
We will all know soon enough.

You are just dead wrong. You are now guilty of retranslating teh Inspired Word of God!

Oh it was re-translated all right, but so long ago that the churches of today have no idea what the truth is...they lost it when the 'weeds' took over. Christendom has no idea that what they have been led to believe for centuries are all lies.

Yes solomon did write under the Spirit. but there are many NT Truths that were not revealed or understood by OT writers.
When jesus spoke of Lazarus and the Rich man- He knew that there was Abrahams bosom and "hell". He also knoew that if it wasd a pagan concept He would have been implicitly confirmiong them

Nonsense. “Abraham’s bosom” was nothing more that a favored standing with Yahweh. The Jews knew full well what the “bosom” position was. Who changed that concept...? The RCC who made that parable into something it never was.
It had nothing whatsoever to do with heaven and hell.

The Jews had no concept of "heaven" or “hell” because their scriptures do not teach it.
If one sticks to the abomination of translation error that the KJV has proven to be, they will never know what the words translated “hell” in that version even mean. “Hades” is not “Gehenna” and “Sheol” is not “the lake of fire” and Tartarus is not “hell” either. Only a proper understanding of those words according to the ones who wrote them will reveal the truth about death and what these word convey in original language scripture.

Remember that cocka-mamey story the Watchtower came up to reinterpret Lazarus and the rich man with did not exist for close to 20 centuries.
So you now have to say that God allowed believers to believe a lie for almost 2,000 years, until the writers of the Watchtower published that "interpretation" of teh story.

You have no idea how far back the foretold 'sowing' of the 'weeds' goes, do you?

God allowed the same level of apostasy to overtake the Christian Faith, just as he did with the Jews. Who do you suppose was responsible for their errors? Jesus told them plainly, but they didn’t want to believe him. (John 8:44) Christendom too is blind to the devil’s corrupting of the church over many centuries. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) It’s the only Christianity that these ones have ever known.

Only at “the time of the end” did Daniel foretell a cleansing and refining of God’s worshippers, (Daniel 12:9-10) and an abundance of knowledge at this time....so yes...the true Faith was to be restored to those who knew in their hearts that Christendom was a disunited and hypocritical counterfeit....just as Judaism became. God would grant 'understanding and insight' only to those who sought the truth, rather than to blindly accept the ancient lies. They would be 'cleansed and refined' in their worship, so that a clear distinction between the 'wheat' and the 'weeds' would be seen at the judgment when Christ separates the two forever. The reapers are at the ready....are you?

Sorry but that doesn't wash with history and reality and the SCriptures!

I too am sorry that this blindness afflicts you. The scriptures are very clear as to what the reality is.
The foretold apostasy took place just as Jesus and the apostles said it would.....but it seems that no one noticed because the devil is a master of ‘gradualism’...the ‘frog in the pot’ who was cooked because he never noticed how gradually the water that was formally his friend, became his killer.

Now you are lying against the Word of God. Paul could have written that under the INspiration of the Holy Spirit. But He didn't! God does not need an editor called the Watchtower. What Paul wrote is inopposition to Watchtower teaching.

Are you serious? Everything that Paul wrote was by inspiration of the holy spirit....you claim it wasn’t because he disagrees with what you want to believe?
Not all Christians are chosen for a role in heaven.....heaven was never even in God’s original purpose in Eden....he designed the earth for humans and humans for life on earth...how is that not obvious....? Or is it only obvious to those of us who are not as indoctrinated as you are?
Why was there a “tree of life” in the garden if not to facilitate everlasting life in mortal flesh? (Genesis 3:22-24) There was no mention of heaven or hell to Adam and his wife....only life or death, because that is all there is.

 

[Aunty Jane]

wow you allegorize literal passages and then become woodenly literal when jesus is making a comparison! But as it says the smoke of their agony will ascend forever and ever.

If they are killed immediately by intense flames- their agony ends!

So you really think that god is going to resurrect all them lost people, reconstitute their bodies that have turned to dust and have been scattered or are fish food and fish droppings, just to kill them all over again???????????????

It is apparent that you do not listen to what is said to you....
Why does God require eternal punishment in agony for a short life of sin that was inherited from Adam in the first place? Tell me what punishment under Israel’s laws that required torture of any sort, let alone unending suffering? The Jews didn’t even have prisons because God’s laws made them unnecessary.
Who is this fiendish god you worship who apparently enjoys the suffering of his children for all eternity because they sinned?
“The wages sin pays is death”, not eternal suffering.
You are welcome to that fiend because he sounds way more like the personality of Christendom’s god than the God of Jesus Christ....who was a complete reflection of his Father’s beautiful personality. God’s justice is not served through punishment for its own sake....punishment was meant to promote repentance which in turn would merit forgiveness.....what does your god accomplish by this “hell” you believe in?
His laws were so perfect and the punishments for them so just, that anyone who transgressed, wasn't in a hurry to do it again. Those who merited the death penalty certainly didn't re-offend.

Please show me th epoll you conducted that shows no one by imagination considers the teachings of the bible Babylon!

All of Christendom's teachings can be traced back to original Babylon which was the place where all false worship started and spread to the ends of the earth with the confusing of the language at Babel.....but surely you would know this...?

Here is a short list of the things that Christendom holds true but is not in the Bible....

1/ There is no “hell” as a place of eternal torment.

2/ God is not a god of torture. This is a horrible pagan idea from Babylon.

3/ There is no separate “soul” when we die we are dead, until the Resurrection if God chooses to give us life again.

4/ There is no such thing as clergy, or a pope. It is not allowed by Christ. It is a Babylonian “high priest” idea that the Roman Church “Christianized”.

5/ No human can ever be equal to God. Jesus is a creation and is not God Almighty. He was created. Much of Babylonian ideas is that the Emperor, or Pharaoh in Egypt ( as Egyptians had similar crap religions to Babylon) was a “god” and you better do what he said or you will rot in hell forever.

6/ There is no heavenly passage for MOST people (no hell either). If you make it you will live on the earth as God originally intended. The gift of life was intended for the earth. And only 144,000 (the anointed for this purpose) will go to heaven to rule with Christ, BECAUSE Jehovah created the earth for humans to live on and to live forever. As it was before Adam screwed up. God did not create the earth to be destroyed, but for his creation of humans and animals and all creatures to live on it.

Every one of these beliefs originated in Babylon.....not the Bible.

But I agree Christendom - or the external form of Christianity is apostate, but not because that many hold some correct doctrines.

But all JW's are not Christians and are lost for one reason!

Since you hold beliefs that are 'Babylonian' in origin, your "church" is also part of "Babylon the great". You think a few differences will make your religion more acceptable? We are told to "get out of her" if we do not want to merit the same punishment that God has in store for her. (Revelation 18:3-4) Changing a few things won't do any good. The separation has to be complete.

Do you have a global brotherhood who all believe the same things that you do? (1 Corinthians 1:10) The good news had to be preached in all the inhabited earth, not just in one small neighborhood in one small part of the world. (Matthew 24:14)
Is your church known for its witnessing, as it is a command from Jesus to preach and make disciples. (Matthew 28:19-20) He did not sit in a building waiting for people to come to him...he sent out his disciples to preach in all the towns and villages so that no one was missed, or overlooked. (Matthew 10:11-14) They went from house to house to search out who was 'worthy' and stayed to teach that household when they found a good response. (Acts 20:20) When they were turned away, they simply shook the dust off their feet and moved on.

So now you are reading minds and without even knowing my pastor think he is trying to gain favor with human kings? God condemns divination like you are practicing!

What your pastor wears or doesn't wear is none of my business.....all I said was that if you or he had an audience with a ruling human king, you would not show up in jeans and a flannel shirt....you wouldn't get past the front door. My point was, if we are coming before our God and King in worship we would show by the way we dressed that we didn't disrespect him...no?

But yet you condemn NT priests for the way they dress! Do you have a sore neck from twisitng it so quickly?

There is no such thing as a NT priest. The priesthood of the elect was to be served in heaven, not on earth. Revelation 20:6 confirms that.
"Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years." (NKJV)
They "shall be"...not "already are".

He said their agony would ascend forever! Stop retranslating the word of God according to the dictates of the Watchtower! God is smart enough to tell people it is a reminder. He doesn't need self proclaimed prophets telling HIm what He meant! If this was couched in symbolic language that would be different, but it is not so we don't need interpretation, but obedience.

You know Ron, it appears as if it is an affront for anyone who is un-credentialed to differ with your opinion...I get it. Its hard to defend the indefensible....I see you vainly trying to make God's word say something different to what the Bible writers meant according to their understanding, not the church's.

When it comes to Bible study, a degree in theology will not cut through the mistranslations that already exist.
This is one of those examples....
You insist that it is "the agony of their torment" when I cannot find a single translation that says so....
so who is re-translating here?
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Revelation 14:11

Revelation 14:11...KJV....
"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Mounce Interlinear....."11 And kai the ho smoke kapnos from ho their autos torture basanismos will go up anabainō forever eis aiōn and ever aiōn, and kai those ho who worship proskyneō the ho beast thērion and kai his autos image eikōn will have echō no ou relief anapausis day hēmera or kai night nyx, · ho along with kai anyone tis who receives lambanō the ho mark charagma of ho his autos name onoma.”

Proven wrong again.....sorry but I find your protestations are groundless....you have no scripture to back up a thing you say.....

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jehovah's Witnesses are in no position to evaluate any false teachings, since the Watchtower Society itself is the source of multiple false teachings. Everything -- in fact -- is a lie.

None of what you claim there could apply to your church though, could it...?

I'll let Jesus be the judge.....he doesn't make mistakes, and he does not take kindly to those who put other gods in the Father's place. (Exodus 20:3) You have three of them.

Also there is "Christendom" on one hand and "Bible Christianity" on the other hand. And Bible Christianity says that Jesus of Nazareth is God.

Please find me one direct statement that has either the Father or his Christ claiming that Jesus is God or the equal of his Father.
I have asked this of you multiple times and all I hear back is...crickets...we both know that there is no such statement which means that the doctrine has no solid foundation. We can't build on sand.

Indeed all the denominations of Christendom believe this to be true.

So, what if you have all been duped by the devil? It happened to Judaism, and Jesus foretold that it would happen again.....I don't think you'd know a 'weed' if you fell over one...they all look like you.

But the JWs and a few other cults reject this.

Thank goodness we are not alone.....it means that there is hope for those who have not swallowed the devil's lies from centuries past. The time of the end is a time for separation.....we have separated completely from Christendom.....

So unless you accept this as Bible doctrine, you will never arrive at the truth. As Paul says, the JWs are "ever learning and NEVER able to come to unto the knowledge of the truth" (2 Tim 3:7).

Funny, I can say the same thing about Christendom, who never venture past their treasured doctrines to actually examine them to see if they are "the truth". They can't all be wrong....can they? (Matthew 7:21-23) The "many" are going to be very disappointed at Christ's rejection and they won't be able to handle it....weeping and gnashing of teeth will ensue....they will go down kicking and screaming at the ones who fed them the lies sown by the devil centuries ago....but they will have no excuse because God's servants have been trying to warn them for over 100 years.
Just like the days of Noah.....(Matthew 24:37-39) Are you ready?

 

[Wrangler]

This is a thread designed to evaluate the Bible's teachings against what is accepted in Christendom as such.

I kind of think this could be a book.

 

[Wrangler]

Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you

Notice how the Scriptural verse is personal, not political?

In every war situation, the leaders of Christendom's churches have always supported the bloodshed of their nation's governments....this runs contrary to everything that Jesus taught.

Politically, Christendom's churches have always supported their nation's governments makes sense from a Scriptural and patriotic perspective.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I kind of think this could be a book.

I think you could be right...but its more of a "book" review IMO....

Its good to compare....to see if what is believed comes from God's word, or man's.

Are the ones pointing fingers and shouting "heretic!", themselves the real heretics? Jesus will let us all know soon enough....

 

[Wrangler]

Why does God require eternal punishment in agony for a short life of sin that was inherited from Adam in the first place? Tell me what punishment under Israel’s laws that required torture of any sort, let alone unending suffering? The Jews didn’t even have prisons because God’s laws made them unnecessary.
Who is this fiendish god you worship who apparently enjoys the suffering of his children for all eternity because they sinned?
“The wages sin pays is death”, not eternal suffering.
You are welcome to that fiend because he sounds way more like the personality of Christendom’s god than the God of Jesus Christ....who was a complete reflection of his Father’s beautiful personality. God’s justice is not served through punishment for its own sake....punishment was meant to promote repentance which in turn would merit forgiveness.....what does your god accomplish by this “hell” you believe in?

Great analysis!

 

[Wrangler]

Here is a short list of the things that Christendom holds true but is not in the Bible....

1/ There is no “hell” as a place of eternal torment.

2/ God is not a god of torture. This is a horrible pagan idea from Babylon.

3/ There is no separate “soul” when we die we are dead, until the Resurrection if God chooses to give us life again.

4/ There is no such thing as clergy, or a pope. It is not allowed by Christ. It is a Babylonian “high priest” idea that the Roman Church “Christianized”.

5/ No human can ever be equal to God. Jesus is a creation and is not God Almighty. He was created. Much of Babylonian ideas is that the Emperor, or Pharaoh in Egypt ( as Egyptians had similar crap religions to Babylon) was a “god” and you better do what he said or you will rot in hell forever.

6/ There is no heavenly passage for MOST people (no hell either). If you make it you will live on the earth as God originally intended. The gift of life was intended for the earth. And only 144,000 (the anointed for this purpose) will go to heaven to rule with Christ, BECAUSE Jehovah created the earth for humans to live on and to live forever. As it was before Adam screwed up. God did not create the earth to be destroyed, but for his creation of humans and animals and all creatures to live on it.

The table of contents for your book.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Notice how the Scriptural verse is personal, not political?

Being "no part of the world" is definitely political because of who it is that rules this present system of things. (John 18:36; 1 John 5:19)
What the world does is none of our business. If we vote people into political office, we have to share responsibility for what they do once in that position that we helped to put them in.
The world can fight all the wars it likes....it doesn't mean that we have to be part of it. Jesus never meddled in politics despite the fact that his people were oppressed under Roman domination.

Politically, Christendom's churches have always supported their nation's governments makes sense from a Scriptural and patriotic perspective.

If we read Revelation 17 and 18 we see the prostitute....."Babylon the great"....and what happens to her.

Revelation 17:1-6....
"One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me: “Come, I will show you the judgment on the great prostitute who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed sexual immorality, and earth’s inhabitants were made drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality.”

3 And he carried me away in the power of the spirit into a wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and she was adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, and she had in her hand a golden cup that was full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her sexual immorality. 5 On her forehead was written a name, a mystery: “Babylon the Great, the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth.” 6 And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus."

Babylon the great is "in bed" with the kings or political rulers of this world. Her immorality is of the religious kind, trying to unite church and state, when we are to be NO part of any of it. These leaders want and need the support of the churches to keep people on board with what they are doing....the clergy are at the front line of battles salving consciences and supporting the bloodshed. If those on the opposing side also claim to be Christians then there is a real problem.

"If anyone says, “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For the one who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21 And we have this commandment from him, that whoever loves God must also love his brother." (1 John 2:20-21)

"Babylon the great" is the mother of many daughters who all emulate her in their disgusting conduct, becoming "friends with the world" rather than friends of God. (James 4:4) They participate in the bloodshed, even if they do not fire a shot.....tacitly they give their support in other ways.

Revelation 18:1-8....
"After this I saw another angel descending from heaven with great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his glory. 2 And he cried out with a strong voice, saying: “She has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen, and she has become a dwelling place of demons and a place where every unclean spirit and every unclean and hated bird lurks! 3 For because of the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality, all the nations have fallen victim, and the kings of the earth committed sexual immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth became rich owing to the power of her shameless luxury.”

4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. 6 Repay her in the way she treated others, yes, pay her back double for the things she has done; in the cup she has mixed, mix a double portion for her. 7 To the extent that she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury, to that extent give her torment and mourning. For she keeps saying in her heart: ‘I sit as queen, and I am not a widow, and I will never see mourning.’ 8 That is why in one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire, because Jehovah God, who judged her, is strong."

We have to remove ourselves from "Babylon the great" because she will be the first to go down as a prelude to the great war of Armageddon.

 

[Wrangler]

Being "no part of the world" is definitely political because of who it is that rules this present system of things.

Well, that's not really an answer to my question. The verse you cited is personal, not political. Changing reference to another verse does not that.

Regarding 'being "no part of the world" is definitely political' ignores Christ command to 'give unto Caesar what is Caesar's' and obeying civil authorities.

Politically, Christendom's churches have always supported their nation's governments makes sense from a Scriptural and patriotic perspective.

If we read Revelation 17 and 18 we see the prostitute....."Babylon the great"....and what happens to her.

Not really relevant to the point. Just because someone has religious affiliation does not mean they are not patriotic citizens. The idea of giving your political enemies food and water would rightfully be considered traitorous, if not treason. The opposite of obeying civil authorities.

 

[Enoch111]

Please find me one direct statement that has either the Father or his Christ claiming that Jesus is God or the equal of his Father.

This has been posted a hundred times and you have dodged it or ignored it every time. And you will dodge it again:

8 But unto the Son He [God the Father] saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord [Jesus], in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Verse 10 actually a quotation from Psalm 102:25, where the person addressed is God. But here "Lord" means Jesus, the Son. And this passage is quoted below Hebrews 1:10: 24 I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations. 25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. 26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: 27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Well, that's not really an answer to my question. The verse you cited is personal, not political. Changing reference to another verse does not that.

It shows that it does apply in a broader sense as well. This "world" is ruled by the devil. There is NO part of it that is ruled by God at present except in the lives of those who seek citizenship in his Kingdom to "come".

Regarding 'being "no part of the world" is definitely political' ignores Christ command to 'give unto Caesar what is Caesar's' and obeying civil authorities.

On the contrary, we are commanded to obey the superior authorities because of the benefits they provide to us. They provide roads, hospitals, schools and other services of which we partake or use, so 'paying back to Caesar' is simply giving to Caesar what he asks for to provide the services from which we benefit. That is not being part of the world.....that involves our loyalty. No Christian can be a patriot because the scriptures tell us that we cannot participate in bloodshed.

If Caesar was to tell us to break God's laws, then that would be a different story....we obey the authorities as Jesus and his disciple did, giving the government no grounds to accuse us of disobedience, except in the issues of conscience. No man can make us violate our conscience.

Not really relevant to the point. Just because someone has religious affiliation does not mean they are not patriotic citizens. The idea of giving your political enemies food and water would rightfully be considered traitorous, if not treason. The opposite of obeying civil authorities.

JW's had the experience of being special targets of Hitler during WW2. He hated them because they would not support his Nazi regime nor would they give him the Nazi salute. He rounded our brothers and sisters up and threw them into the concentration camps with the Jews. Many of our brothers were executed and others beaten, but the Nazis could not break them, even at their weakest physically, their spiritual strength could not be over reached because God's spirit sustained them.
In those camps, my brothers refused to hate their captors, always trying to treat them with respect and they earned respect back because none of Jehovah's Witnesses ever plotted an escape. Many were given positions of trust because of that, much like Joseph in ancient Egypt....and Daniel in Babylon. Neither compromised their worship in those positions.

Agape is not "love" in the emotional sense...it is love based on principle. We do not allow ourselves to hate anyone with a view to retaliation.
Romans 12:17-21....
"Return evil for evil to no one. Take into consideration what is fine from the viewpoint of all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says Jehovah.” 20 But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.” 21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good."

Are you saying that you could not do as the scriptures command? This is the true test of every Christian....

 

[Aunty Jane]

This has been posted a hundred times and you have dodged it or ignored it every time. And you will dodge it again:

8 But unto the Son He [God the Father] saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord [Jesus], in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Verse 10 actually a quotation from Psalm 102:25, where the person addressed is God. But here "Lord" means Jesus, the Son. And this passage is quoted below Hebrews 1:10: 24 I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations. 25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. 26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: 27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

And you have been shown that this is invalid as an excuse to believe in the trinity because the verse you quote is inaccurately translated.

Here it is in the Greek Interlinear...
"πρὸς toward δὲ but τὸν the υἱόν Son Ὁ The θρόνος throne σου of you ὁ the θεὸς God εἰς into τὸν the αἰῶνα age τοῦ of the αἰῶνος, age, καὶ and ἡ the ῥάβδος staff τῆς of the εὐθύτητος straightness ῥάβδος staff τῆς of the βασιλείας kingdom αὐτοῦ. of him. "

You can see that the Greek phrasing is not clear cut in English...ripe for mistranslation.

But if you read verse 9 again it shows that the person mentioned in the previous verse has a God who anointed him.
Does God have a God?
Does God anoint himself?
Can God be his own servant? (Acts 4:27)
Can God be his own High Priest? (Hebrews 3:1)
What nonsense!

 

[Wrangler]

It shows that it does apply in a broader sense as well. This "world" is ruled by the devil. There is NO part of it that is ruled by God at present except in the lives of those who seek citizenship in his Kingdom to "come".

LOL. Keep changing the reference (broader sense) if that makes you feel better. Again, it doesn't change the point of the verse cited being personal and not political.

 

[Wrangler]

Agape is not "love" in the emotional sense

Again, change of reference. We were not talking about love but being patriotic in defeating the enemies of the State, not giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

if possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men.

Are you saying that you could not do as the scriptures command?

Another change of reference. You are deliberately denying the context of the verses are personal. Regarding giving aid and comfort to the enemy, it does NOT depend on you at the political level. Otherwise, you are just advocating traitorous action.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What is the vomit you keep regurgitating...? Who is that from? Tell us so that we can examine the teachings of your own “church”....do they agree with those who believe the lies that satan planted so very long ago. What makes your church right and ours wrong? Your opinion? All the best with that because it is Jesus’ opinion as our judge that we should be interested in.....no? (Matthew 7:21-23) Does confidence make someone right?
We will all know soon enough.

Well we use the bible and not the Watchtower as our source for meetings! That vomit is Scripture!

Well actually it’s from the Bible....the Watchtower is a Bible Society whose sole aim and role is to print Bibles and Bible literature......you guys keep making this mistake....like you do about most other things in connection with us.....Jesus knows what that feels like....he told us to expect opposition. (Matthew 5:11-12; John 15:18-21)

And run a religion. We have been through this so please don't waster more words on teh screen pretending the Watchtower is not neck deep in teh JW religion. YOur "faithful and discreet slave class" is part of the watchtower

Nonsense. “Abraham’s bosom” was nothing more that a favored standing with Yahweh. The Jews knew full well what the “bosom” position was. Who changed that concept...? The RCC who made that parable into something it never was.
It had nothing whatsoever to do with heaven and hell.

that is a Watchtower and no tJewish teaching. I trus tteh Jews to know their religion more than the faithful and discreet slave!\

Maybe instead of taking the Watchtower word as gospel- go ask a Jewish rabbi!

The Jews had no concept of "heaven" or “hell” because their scriptures do not teach it.
If one sticks to the abomination of translation error that the KJV has proven to be, they will never know what the words translated “hell” in that version even mean. “Hades” is not “Gehenna” and “Sheol” is not “the lake of fire” and Tartarus is not “hell” either. Only a proper understanding of those words according to the ones who wrote them will reveal the truth about death and what these word convey in original language scripture.

They most certainly did. But you cannot learn that under penalty of disfellowshipping.

ou have no idea how far back the foretold 'sowing' of the 'weeds' goes, do you?

God allowed the same level of apostasy to overtake the Christian Faith, just as he did with the Jews. Who do you suppose was responsible for their errors? Jesus told them plainly, but they didn’t want to believe him. (John 8:44) Christendom too is blind to the devil’s corrupting of the church over many centuries. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) It’s the only Christianity that these ones have ever known.

Only at “the time of the end” did Daniel foretell a cleansing and refining of God’s worshippers, (Daniel 12:9-10) and an abundance of knowledge at this time....so yes...the true Faith was to be restored to those who knew in their hearts that Christendom was a disunited and hypocritical counterfeit....just as Judaism became. God would grant 'understanding and insight' only to those who sought the truth, rather than to blindly accept the ancient lies. They would be 'cleansed and refined' in their worship, so that a clear distinction between the 'wheat' and the 'weeds' would be seen at the judgment when Christ separates the two forever. The reapers are at the ready....are you?

I do know how far back!

And Jesus said the gates of hell could not prevail against His church! But the watchtower declares teh truth had fallen until teh Intl. Bible Students brough it back to life again !

Whom should I believe? Jesus or the teachings of a man made organization?????? Its a toughie but I will go with Jesus! All sarcasm intended!

I too am sorry that this blindness afflicts you. The scriptures are very clear as to what the reality is.
The foretold apostasy took place just as Jesus and the apostles said it would.....but it seems that no one noticed because the devil is a master of ‘gradualism’...the ‘frog in the pot’ who was cooked because he never noticed how gradually the water that was formally his friend, became his killer.

I see quite clear! what you only see is not history or facxt but the perverted teachings of the Watchtower.

 

[amigo de christo]

This has been posted a hundred times and you have dodged it or ignored it every time. And you will dodge it again:

8 But unto the Son He [God the Father] saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord [Jesus], in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Verse 10 actually a quotation from Psalm 102:25, where the person addressed is God. But here "Lord" means Jesus, the Son. And this passage is quoted below Hebrews 1:10: 24 I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations. 25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. 26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: 27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.