Christian baker and transgender cake lawsuit

[TinMan]

I think they seek out things just like this to draw attention to their agenda of acceptance, in that they want to force Christians and anyone opposed to that LGBTQ+ lifestlye to accept and approve of them and if they dont, make them pay heavy costs.

Just like what would happen if that business refused to serve black people

 

[TinMan]

View attachment 36440

View attachment 36441
View attachment 36442

because no one ever threatens violence against LGBT people.

 

[atpollard]

In segregation era restaurants were limited by skin color - In white only places only those who were the "correct" skin color could go in and sit down and order food. However black people could still order take out so long as they came to the back door to pick it up. Obviously blacks in the segregated south were not discriminated against because the restaurants would still take their business.

Thank you. You finally see that you were comparing APPLES to ORANGES.
In the segregated South, some men were refused service because of their skin color. In Colorado, bakers are being compelled to perform forced labor because of their Religious beliefs (a form of slavery). What happened in the south was immoral and prompted new laws to stop it. What is happening in Colorado is UNCONSTITUTIONAL and threatens the freedom of all and a return to slavery.

First they came for the Communists​

And I did not speak out​

Because I was not a Communist​

Then they came for the Socialists​

And I did not speak out​

Because I was not a Socialist​

Then they came for the trade unionists​

And I did not speak out​

Because I was not a trade unionist​

Then they came for the Jews​

And I did not speak out​

Because I was not a Jew​

Then they came for me​

And there was no one left​

To speak out for me​

​

- Pastor Martin Niemöller​

 

[TinMan]

Unless the BAKER just doesn't want people telling him/her what they MUST bake ... that could be the reason they left Eastern Europe e when the Soviet Union fell and moved to America where they were told they would be free from people telling them what they HAD TO DO.

yet your baker bakes such things every day, its just he doesn't want to serve some minorities.

 

[TinMan]

... Except against Christians trying to honor their beliefs.

Like these Christians?

 

[TinMan]

As far as the baker and his cake baking issues....he should have just baked the dumb cake and avoid a confrontation with a bunch of activists. (His fellow Christians and his pastor probably would not stand behind him anyways.) He has been baking cakes for many sinners in the past. Just let it go and don't wreck your baking business over this issue. He will not end up in hell over it.

you mean he should have treated all his customers as human beings.

 

[TinMan]

... like when an activist goes into a cake shop to order a cake they know the baker will not create so they can sue them and drive them out of business. I think THAT qualifies.

the only example of this i am aware of is when a Christian entered a bakery and demanded a cake with lev 20:13 and depicting slaughtered children all wearing a pink triangle. the baker refused, he sued and he lost.

 

[atpollard]

View attachment 36440

View attachment 36441
View attachment 36442

The NRA and Second Amendment would both support Transgender People's equal right to Self Defense.
Personally, I am a constitutional "Strict Constructionist" so I would also support it, but MANY States have banned both "Assault Style Weapons" [often defined as semi-automatic] and "High Capacity Magazines" [often defined as greater than 5 rounds], thus that particular rifle is banned in most states where Transgenders are more likely to live.


Thus the NEED for a Constitution and a Second Amendment to protect His/Her rights.
If the First Amendment stops protecting the freedom of the baker, then all rights are in danger.
The SCOTUS understood, even if most posters on this topic do not.

 

[TinMan]

I don't thing @JohnDB is from Alabama or that old.

does your post have a point?

 

[TinMan]

Gays have a right to boycot Christian Bakers that will not bake a Wedding cake for a homosexual wedding.

why should they have to?

 

[atpollard]

Like these Christians?

If you were do die today, are you certain that you would go to heaven?

(Your posts cause me to worry if you really understand the Gospel Message and definition of "Christian". FYI: those are not Christians.)

 

[Scott Downey]

Maybe, but credit where credit is due ... I requested Scripture to support the position and - agree or disagree with his interpretation of that scripture - He provided EXACTLY what was requested.

Man is made in the similitude, likeness, of God, but that does not make all men God's children,
as all men are made by the Creator, but Christians are born by the Creator, so only Christians are children of His.

I think the word 'born' is relevant here. Like who is born by God
You won't find a verse that says the unsaved are born of God again.
Those born according to the flesh are not the children of God, if you believe what Romans 9 says, you just cannot get around that TRUTH, but people dispute with God all the time. over what He says.

NKJV
With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God.
KJ21
Therewith we bless God, even the Father, and therewith we curse men, who are made in the similitude of God.
ASV
Therewith bless we the Lord and Father; and therewith curse we men, who are made after the likeness of God:
AMP
With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God.

 

[atpollard]

why should they have to?

... because Bakers are not excluded from the protections of the 14th Amendment (Bakers are free men and not slaves, therefore it is illegal to compel [force] them to perform acts of labor.)

 

[Scott Downey]

... because Bakers are not excluded from the protections of the 14th Amendment (Bakers are free men and not slaves, therefore it is illegal to compel [force] them to perform acts of labor.)

I would be more likely to buy from the baker because he is doing the right thing.

 

[atpollard]

Man is made in the similitude, likeness, of God, but that does not make all men God's children,
as all men are made by the Creator, but Christians are born by the Creator, so only Christians are children of His.

I think the word 'born' is relevant here. Like who is born by God
You won't find a verse that says the unsaved are born of God again.
Those born according to the flesh are not the children of God, you just cannot get around that TRUTH, but people dispute with God all the time. over what He says.

NKJV
With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God.
KJ21
Therewith we bless God, even the Father, and therewith we curse men, who are made in the similitude of God.
ASV
Therewith bless we the Lord and Father; and therewith curse we men, who are made after the likeness of God:
AMP
With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God.

Preaching to the choir. (I quoted Ephesians 2:1-3 in my original question).
Even the original poster acknowledged that all men are not "Children of God" as the saved are "Children".

I merely requested SOME Scripture to support their position and they provided it. Thus the view that there is a relationship between God and "all men without exception" (even if that relationship is different than the relationship between God and the saved) is not 100% without scripture to support it. That DESERVES to be acknowledged.

Too many are so entrenched in their beliefs that they will not even acknowledge that those with different beliefs CAN make a reasonable observation. We fight that stubbornness, as Christian brothers, by giving credit where credit is due.

 

[Wrangler]

I understand what you are saying but I stated my opinion on the OP, then I mull over what’s been said. Personally I am not sure my opinion has changed. An action may imply something but you are presuming that there has been no other conversation taking place,

Of course, many people don’t agree with an institution and still use their products. My wife bought Bud light at a restaurant twice this summer.

But this conversation is when the line is crossed, like the media taking out their objections of State action against athletes.

People tend to take things personally. It’s nothing against you personally, I just don’t condone X. When it is you whose flag they don’t show, lunch counter they don’t serve, cake they don’t bake, it is hard not to take personally.

 

[Scott Downey]

Preaching to the choir. (I quoted Ephesians 2:1-3 in my original question).
Even the original poster acknowledged that all men are not "Children of God" as the saved are "Children".

I merely requested SOME Scripture to support their position and they provided it. Thus the view that there is a relationship between God and "all men without exception" (even if that relationship is different than the relationship between God and the saved) is not 100% without scripture to support it. That DESERVES to be acknowledged.

Too many are so entrenched in their beliefs that they will not even acknowledge that those with different beliefs CAN make a reasonable observation. We fight that stubbornness, as Christian brothers, by giving credit where credit is due.

Every sect and heresy believe in some particular scripture to support their view don't they. Typically, cults focus in on even only one scripture to prove and justify their doctrine.

Only unbelieving men go to hellfire, no animals do, so of course there is a difference between a man and an animal, scripture says unsaved men are made in the likeness or similitude of God. There is an accounting to God for the deeds they do in the flesh.

 

[atpollard]

I would be more likely to buy from the baker because he is doing the right thing.

Good ... making you free to do so. You and others are also free to withold from buying from anyone that you believe is doing the wrong thing (as YOU define right and wrong). That is also part of your freedom.

I just think the BAKER deserves the same freedom. He should not be FORCED to perform labor HE believes is wrong.

 

[TinMan]

Yea, who are we going to believe; our lying eyes or you? Video puts Muslim bakeries, florists in gay-rights spotlight

Oh this lie again. Check your sources this video has been thoroughly debunked.


He lied.

the first bakery of his video was Golden Bakery on Warren Avenue where he was directed to the bakery across the street because the Golden Bakery is a bread bakery, they only bake bread.

At the Hallab Bakery he spoke with someone who didn't understand English and took the man's statement that he English speaking brother will be back soon as a refusal to bake him a wedding cake.

At Dearborn Sweets they not only agreed to bake his cake but agreed to cater the wedding. they happily displayed Crowder's order and receipt in their store for several years after the fact.

So a conservative blatantly lying to spread bigotry. Imagine that.

 

[TinMan]

Thank you. You finally see that you were comparing APPLES to ORANGES.
In the segregated South, some men were refused service because of their skin color. In Colorado, bakers are being compelled to perform forced labor because of their Religious beliefs (a form of slavery).

just like when the civil rights act finally passed all those business owners were compelled to perform forced labor and serve black people openly