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"Christian" Doctrines That Are Not Biblical

Discussion in 'NonChristian Help Forum' started by Alter2Ego, Jul 8, 2012.

  1. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego New Member

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    ALTER2EGO -to- BUTCH5:
    You're mistaken. The synonyms for "hell" are "Hades" and "Sheol" and "pit."

    DEFINITION OF HELL:
    "The abode of the dead, identified with the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades; the underworld."
    http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/hell


    A correctly translated English Bible will never use Gehenna as a synonym for hell because the word Gehenna is figurative language for permanent death or permanent destruction from which there is no resurrection. Gehenna is the synonym for "the lake of fire." In the Bible, whenever "fire" is used figuratively, it is with reference to cleansing or destruction. Thus, Gehenna and the lake of fire represent permanent destruction.
     
  2. mark s

    mark s New Member

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    Hi aspen2,

    Interesting that this "alter2ego" refuses to answer the question.

    If someone asked me if I were a Jehovah's Witness, I'd come right out with it, "No!"

    It sure looks to me as though this person is a JW, and simply doesn't want to self-identify. These are the two main hot-button topics the JW's gravitate to, and, with this deafening silence . . .

    But if they are identified as a Jehovah's Witness, then they lose the cover of "I'm just a Christian who's been reading my Bible", to be known as a member of a group schooled in a false theology.
     
  3. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego New Member

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    ALTER2EGO to MARK S:
    Am I supposed to take your word for it? Or are you going to present scriptures where it indicates: "God identifies Himself as YHWH, but also is called the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit"? This is a Bible discussion in which all are required to present scriptures to prove doctrinal claims--as opposed to their personal philosophy aka their opinions.


    ALTER2EGO to MARK S:
    You are debunking your own Trinity by what you acknowledged: "This was not the same person," and "The Father recognized that the Son was Someone other than Himself...." You are not helping your cause by acknowledging that Jesus Christ is not the same God and that they are separate and distinct individuals. Separate and distinct individuals are just that. They are not combined into a singular person as that defies the laws of our God-given logic.


    Look at what God himself said at the verse you quoted: "This is My Son." What sense would the latter part of that sentence make: "...in Whom I am well pleased," if YHWH/Jehovah/Yahweh were actually combined into a Trinity "Godhead" with Jesus Christ? That would amount to God saying he's pleased with himself. Not only that, the word "Godhead" is a fabrication. It does not belong in the Bible. I gave a detailed explanation of that to Episkopos at Post #30. You will see it at the bottom of the post where I presented two independent sources that confirm this.
     
  4. mark s

    mark s New Member

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    Your arguments fall flat. They all boil down to this: "I don't understand it, therefore, it cannot be". Not to mention the words you put in my mouth as you re-word my assertions, creating straw men.

    But you have worse problems than understanding the Trinity, now knowing Who Jesus is.

    You too will bow to Jesus, even as Isaiah prophesied, that all will bow to YHWH, confessing He is your rightful ruler.

    One day YHWH will stand upon the Mount of Olives, as prophesied by Zechariah, just as the angels said that Jesus will return in the same way He left.

    YHWH commands only worship be given to Him, even as Thomas worshiped Jesus, "My Lord and my God!"

    The day will come when YHWH will judge in the valley of decision, as Jesus separates the sheep from the goats.

    And you can go on and on like this. YHWH and Jesus are inseparable in Scripture.

    God is very clear about Who He is.

    You are the one who is not.
     
  5. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego New Member

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    ALTER2EGO -to- MARK S.:
    You are good at making cliche statements, such as the one I bolded in red in your post that I partially quoted above. Cliches won't help you escape the issues I am raising about the Trinity because there is no scriptural support for the dogma. The historical record says it was dreamed up by the Roman Catholics and made official church doctrine in the 4th century AD--more than 300 years after Jesus Christ left the earthly scene. Those are facts that anyone can confirm from secular history.

    The fabricated term "Godhead" goes hand in hand with the false trinity teaching that was officially introduced into Christianity by the ROMAN Catholic Church, beginning in 325 CE/AD at the Council of Nicaea. On that occasion, about 300 Catholic bishops met. At that time, Roman Emperor Constantine—a non-Christian who was not baptized until he lay dying—presided over the Nicaea Counsel and, as stated by the Encyclopedia Britannica:

    "Constantine himself presided, ACTIVELY GUIDING THE DISCUSSIONS, and PERSONALLY proposed... the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, [that Christ was] 'of one substance with the Father.' "


    Keep in mind that Jesus died and returned to heaven in 33 C.E. and this idea that would later evolve into the trinity did not officially become Roman Catholic dogma until 325 C.E. (almost 300 years after Jesus left the earthly scene). Also keep in mind that the ROMANS who executed Jesus—prior to adopting Christianity as the state religion—had a long history of polytheism (worship of many gods). It was therefore a simple matter for the ROMAN Catholics to graft various pagan/false teachings into their corrupted version of Christianity. One such teaching became the "Christian" version of trinity or worship of a triune/triad (three-in-one) god.
     
  6. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego New Member

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    ALTER2EGO -to- MARK S:
    I haven't been on the forum for a couple days, and so today I will continue addressing the scriptures you posted to me at Post #9, which you feel are proof that God is a Trinity.


    Notice the three scriptures above from your list that you are using to support your belief that the holy spirit is a person. You used scriptures from both the Hebrew/Old Testament and the Greek/New Testament, and they are saying the same thing--proving the Judeo-Christian Bible to be harmonious.

    Now, look at the context (the surrounding words) of all three of those scriptures. It's right there, and you're ignoring it in all three of them. The Spirit of whom does it say right there? In other words, who does the holy spirit belong to? It says it right there in the verses you quoted. I even bolded it in red for you.

    In other words, it is YHWH/Jehovah/Yahweh that is actually speaking by extension of HIS holy spirit. It's all coming from he himself. The holy spirit/holy ghost is an extension of God's power that he sends forth to get things done. The holy spirit/holy ghost is a possession, something--not someone. To expand on this, notice what happened at Pentecost when a number of Jesus' disciples were gathered together.

    "And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed about, and one sat upon each of them, and they ALL became filled with holy spirit and started to speak with different tongues, just as the spirit was granting them to make utterance." (Acts 2:3-4)

    Tell me this: since when did a single person (the holy spirit--one of the three "persons" of the Trinity) gets split up among a large group of persons and still remain singular? That is a mathematical impossibility and defies our God-given logic. God gave us the ability to use logic so we would not be misled by nonsensical man-made traditions disguised as Christian teachings. But clearly you believe otherwise.

    QUESTION #1 to MARK S.: Clarify for me: once the holy spirit is split up among groups of people--as happened at Pentecost--are you telling me it is still singular/one?



    Once again, notice the language being used further on in the same chapter of Acts to describe what happens with God's holy spirit.

    " 'And in the last days,' God says, 'I shall pour out some of MY spirit upon every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy and your young men will see visions and your old men will dream dreams.' " (Acts 2:17)

    The above is not figurative speech. This literally happened.



    QUESTION #2 to MARK S.: When have you ever heard of a person being literally poured into others?

    While you're thinking about that, look at the word I printed in all caps, bold, underline, and reverse color. Did you notice the word "my"? That's a possessive pronoun. God himself is saying the holy spirit belongs to him. He owns it. It's not a person, its a thing.
     
  7. mark s

    mark s New Member

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    The common thread through all of your arguments is,

    Go ahead and use your "logic", but I will read the Bible.

    AE, I'm not planning to debate this with you any further. You obviously do not believe the Scriptures. You obfuscate your theology - you don't want people to know. The bottom line to your argument is that "I don't understand it", which you've repeated in a number of ways throughout this thread. You act as though you then are the standard of truth. Unless you can understand, then it's not real.

    We can get to bottom line in any number of ways, here's one:

    Jesus received Thomas' worship, "My Lord and my God!"

    Either Jesus is God, or He was a blasphemer.

    Simple.
     
  8. dragonfly

    dragonfly Well-Known Member

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    Jesus received worship from a number of other people, too. And the demons knew who He was. Mark 3:11, 12; Mark 5:7; Luke 8:28.


    The most interesting mathematical suggestion I've ever seen, to 'explain' the Trinity, goes like this: 1 x 1 x 1 = 1
     
  9. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego New Member

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    ALTER2EGO -to- MARK S.:
    No, it's not simple. You are ignoring context and cherry picking words that satisfy what you've chosen to believe.
    Thomas was not worshipping Jesus; therefore by default, Jesus was not accepting worship and blaspheming. If anything, Thomas bowed down before Jesus, which is what people did culturally back then--as a show of respect and humility.

    I looked the scripture up in several different Bible versions, including the King James Version which is notorious for Trinitarian renderings, and none of them mentioned Thomas even so much as bowing to Jesus during that exchange. Furthermore, the words "lord" and "god" are titles that can apply to any powerful being. Jesus is a god because he's powerful. But he's not Almighty God YHWH/Jehovah/Yahweh. Only Almighty God should be worshipped.


    WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF "GOD":

    "1. any of various beings conceived of as supernatural, immortal and having special powers over the lives and affairs of people and the course of nature

    2. a person or thing deified or excessively honored or admired"

    http://www.yourdictionary.com/god


    In effect, the word "god" is a title that is not restricted only to YAHWEH/Jehovah/YHWH. All of the angels are considered "gods" because they are powerful and supernatural beings. Even humans who are in powerful positions are considered gods. This is confirmed by the apostle Paul, as follows:

    "{5} For even though there are those who are called "gods," whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are MANY "gods" and MANY "lords," {6} there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him." " (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

    Did you notice what Paul acknowledged at verse 5? He said there are many others in heaven with the titles "god" and "lord" and that even on earth humans in powerful positions are given those particular titles. However, while he acknowledged others have the titles "god" and "lord" because they are powerful beings, he clarified in verse 6 that only God the Father (YHWH/Jehovah/Yahweh) should be recognized as the One that should be worshipped. In fact, Paul made a point of distinguishing God the Father from Jesus the son by referring to Jesus Christ by the title "Lord."

    BTW: Did you notice that Paul made no mention at 1 Corinthians 8:6 about "God the Holy Ghost"?


    Last but not least, you ignored the context of the scripture concerning "unbelieving" Thomas. You conveniently left off verse 31, which clarifies who Jesus Christ is--in relationship to Almighty God/the Father:

    "But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." (John 20:31 -- New International Version)


    "But these are written so that you may continue to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing in him you will have life by the power of his name." (John 20:31 -- New Living Bible)



    Context is vitally important. Without it, one is able to apply whatever meaning one chooses to apply--because of preconceived ideas.
     
  10. dragonfly

    dragonfly Well-Known Member

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    Hello Alter2Ego,

    Here are some scriptures you may have overlooked.

    Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty EL, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

    Isaiah 52:10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm [Jesus Christ] in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.

    Isaiah 59:16 And he saw that [there was] no man, and wondered that [there was] no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. 17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance [for] clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.

    Jeremiah 7:11 Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen [it], saith the LORD.

    Matthew 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

    Mark 11:17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.

    Luke 19:46 Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.

    John 2:13b - 17'... Jesus went up to Jerusalem, and found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: and when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; and said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise. And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house has eaten me up. (Psa 69:9)

    Hebrews 3:1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

    Ephesians 2:20 And [ye] are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];
    21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth to an holy temple in the Lord:
    22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

    John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one ...'


    You have, also, overlooked that Jesus Christ was the Lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world, also fulfilling Isaiah above.

    Revelation 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, YHVH EL SHADDAY, which was, and is, and is to come.... 11 Thou art worthy, O YHVH, to receive
    glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.


    Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David,
    hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. 6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne
    and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain,
    having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of ELOHIYM sent forth into all the earth. (Zech 3:9, Zech 4:10)

    11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four [and] twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

    Beware lest you find yourself one of those whose name is not written in the Lamb's book of life, because you worshipped the beast. (Rev 13:8)

    Revelation 15:3
    And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying,
    Great and marvellous [are] thy works, Lord God Almighty;
    just and true [are] thy ways, thou King of saints.

    Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in diverse manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    2 Has in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
    3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power,
    when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; (because He is His right arm).

    The being who is 'upholding all things by the word of his power', is God. Who else could do it?

    Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O ELOHIYM, is for ever and ever:
    a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

    God had salvation for us planned out from before the foundation of the world. The incarnation brought Him 'a little lower than the angels' (Hebrews 2:9, 10, 11, 12) temporarily, because unless God became a man, He could not die in our place, and destroy the devil, and abolish the death, which entered the world because of the sin which Adam committed. (Romans 5:12) He expected to enter back into glory afterwards (John 17:24), because death could not hold Him (Acts 2:24), because He Himself was without sin (Heb 4:15, 1 Peter 2:22). (It is sin which binds us into death, unless we receive His death for us.) The fact that He did no sin also indicates His deity, and that although He was 'made' in the 'likeness of sinful flesh', He did that so that we would know He was one of us humanly speaking. Immanuel: God with us. God is one of us. Acts 20:28.

    Now, having finished the work His Father sent Him to complete, He, having humbled Himself to death, has been exalted by God, who has given Him a name which is above every name.

    Jeremiah 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith YHVH, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. 6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, YHVH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

    Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of YHVH shall be saved.

    Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of ELOHIYM. 14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.


    The verses using the original Hebrew names are from http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/index.htm
     
  11. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego New Member

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    ALTER2EGO to MARK S:
    Continuing with the wall of scriptures you gave me at Post #9, look at the context (the surrounding words): "shall call his name". That's the red flag that this is nothing more than a name.

    In the Bible, all names had meaning back in those days. For instance, the name Jeremiah means
    "YAHWEH has uplifted".
    http://www.mfnames.c...of-jeremiah.htm


    The name Isaiah means "YAHWEH is salvation".
    http://www.abarim-pu...ing/Isaiah.html


    As you know Yahweh is one of the pronunciations of God's personal name YHWH. Are we to then conclude that Isaiah and Jeremiah are also YHWH/Jehovah/Yahweh?
     
  12. dragonfly

    dragonfly Well-Known Member

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    Of course not. Those phrases are translations into English of a single 'name' in Hebrew. Hebrew (and Aramaic) are very compact. Each letter has an extended meaning, which is honed down by the context.
     
  13. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego New Member

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    ALTER2EGO to MARK S & DRAGONFLY:
    Look at the context (the surrounding words): "his name shall be called". Everything else after those introductory words "his name shall be called" are titles.

    Furthermore, the opening words to that verse of scripture are the biggest clue: "For unto us a child is born". The Bible says YHWH/Jehovah/Yahweh is eternal. An eternal person has no beginning and therefore cannot be born. If the "Jesus part" of "God in Trinity" is being born, that creates a contradiction with what the Bible says. According to the Bible, no part of God can be born.

    "Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." (Psalms 90:2)


    DEFINITION OF "ETERNAL": Eternal means not having a beginning or an end.
    http://www.yourdictionary.com/eternal
     
  14. Rach1370

    Rach1370 New Member

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    Um, can I ask a question? The bible tells us that God IS spirit. So, if He's already spirit, why does He need a Spirit? Doesn't that mean, following your reasoning, that God then has 2? A spirit, little s, which He is, and a Spirit, captial S which He has? Kind of superfluous....
     
  15. Butch5

    Butch5 Butch5

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    What a correctly translated English Bible will have and what they actually have may be two differentthings. Gehenna is not figurative language. It was a literal place outside of Jerusalem and will be outside of the new Jerusalem.
     
  16. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego New Member

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    ALTER2EGO -to- DRAGONFLY:
    You are cherry picking words and ignoring everything else (the surrounding words/the context) in all of the verses quoted above. Look at the context that I highlighted in blue. Then look at my explanation below.

    1. Jeremiah 7:11 is a direct quotation of a prophecy that Yahweh/Jehovah/YHWH instructed the Prophet Jeremiah to write. We know those were Almighty God's exact words, because the verse ends with the expression: "saith the LORD."

    2. Now notice all of the other scriptures that I bolded in blue. Those are the gospel writers giving their eye-witness report of what Jesus said. They are all quoting Jesus who, in turn, was quoting Almighty God as written by Jeremiah in the Old Testament. As you can see, all of the gospel writers indicated that Jesus Christ was himself quoting someone else, as follows:

    Matthew 21:13 -- "And [Jesus] said unto them, It is written,"
    Mark 11:17 -- "And he [Jesus] taught, saying unto them, Is it not written,"
    Luke 19:46 [Jesus] Saying unto them, It is written,"


    Finally, at John 2:17, the disciples did not quote Jesus Christ. Instead, they themselves reflected back on what the Prophet Jeremiah wrote.

    John 2:17 -- "And his [Jesus'] disciples remembered that it was written,"


    Dragonfly, whenever you see the words "It is written" in the Bible, that's the clue that the speaker is attributing the saying to somebody else. Jesus was quoting Yahweh/Jehovah/YHWH. He was not attributing those words to himself. Even Satan the Devil quoted the words of Almighty God. Notice below.

    "{9} Now he [the Devil] led him [Jesus] into Jerusalem and stationed him upon the battlement of the temple and said to him: "If you are a son of God, hurl yourself down from here; {10} for it is written, 'He will give his angels a charge concerning you, to preserve you,' {11} and, 'They will carry you on their hands, that you may at no time strike your foot against a stone.' " (Luke 4:9-11)


    Notice the portion I printed within the quotation in reverse color. There, we see Satan saying "it is written," which tells us he's about to quote somebody else. He then quoted Almighty God in the other words that are in bold print. Now, notice below from where in the Old testament Satan was quoting.

    "{11} For he will give his own angels a command concerning you, to guard you in all your ways. {12} Upon their hands they will carry you, that you may not strike your foot against any stone." (Psalms 91:11-12)


    Now, dragonfly, Satan the Devil clearly is not in a Trinity with YHWH/Jehovah/Yahweh. Yet, he quoted scripture to Jesus using the words of Almighty God and used the exact phrase "it is written." So why are you singling Jesus out for doing what Satan did and using that to say it's proof Jesus is in a Trinity with Almighty God? Jesus was not applying those words to himself. He was quoting Yahweh/Jehovah/YHWH. John 2:17 brings out that Jesus' disciples also quoted Almighty God.
     
  17. dragonfly

    dragonfly Well-Known Member

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    Hello Alter2Ego,

    I hope you are not calling yourself a Christian, with the views you are posting here?
     
  18. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Dogmatism creates an environment whereby growth is stunted...and that stunting dogmatism is tenaciously held to as if it was the faith itself.

    The problem as I see it is that the bible is God-centered in it's logic but the interpreters are usually man-centered. The truth seems inconsistent but that is due to the fact that the truth is spoken in an opposite sounding dialectic....it is given as a 2 pole entity....like a magnet that has a North and South pole. If you take the one pole only....no magnetism (but a strong dogmatism). If you line up scriptures properly...you have a mutual repelling taking place in the natural sense. The word wants to kill us at first...not save us. Man reasons that this cannot be and ignores the whole message from there on. Man is attracted to some of the message of the bible but gets the truth backwards since the opposite poles attract. But in doing so the message is reversed to make it 180 degrees out of whack. So by adding our desires and attractions to the word we get it EXACTLY wrong. And all this happening over and over without giving the least thought as to why. God has designed His word this way to keep the flesh out of the garden. Only the new creation may enter. This new creation itself is a seeming contradiction.....how can an eternal life be hidden in a temporal one?

    So the truth MUST sound contradictory to human ears in order to capture the eternal essence of it. When we take just one pole of the truth we end up with a private human interpretation that can we champion for our own "glory" (actually vainglory). This is how denominations are started. But we are largely blind to this. We are to be humble...but our scant knowledge puffs up to the point where we remain mainly in the dark.
     
  19. Alter2Ego

    Alter2Ego New Member

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    ALTER2EGO to MARK S:
    What's the point of this verse? I don't get it. Please explain, as nothing therein suggests Trinity. It's simply saying that the Father (YHWH/Jehovah/Yahweh) and the Son (Jesus Christ) know each other well. The opening statement: "All things are delivered unto me of my Father," doesn't help the case for Trinity either as that would amount to God delivering things to himself. He and Jesus Christ are supposedly the same God; remember?


    ALTER2EGO to MARK S:
    Look at the context (the surrounding words): The son shall come in whose glory? His own, or in God's glory? They are supposedly the same God; remember? They're not supposed to have separate ownership of glory. So why does the Father have his own glory?
     
  20. Groundzero

    Groundzero Not Afraid To Stand

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    Ground000-alter2ego:

    So let me get one thing straight: YOU DO NOT BELIEVE JESUS IS GOD?
     
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