Christian Nationalism

[Wrangler]

 

[Bombastic]

Amen. This is the very reason the majority of Jews rejected Jesus Christ as their Messiah. He didn't come as a king conquering their enemies. He came in humility, a servant, doing good, and then died on the cross.

Isaiah 11:1
In other words, not all prophecies about the Messiah were fulfilled. Post-Christendom, too, struggled, but momentum increased after the gospels were circulated and certain events occurred.
Keep in mind, the faithful remnant of the OT had/have a forward-looking faith, while NT saints have a historical faith.
That is apart from the eschatological second coming or complete fulfillment of those OT prophecies.
While it is true that Jews rejected Jesus, it is also true that Jesus was a Jew; his followers, disciples, apostles, and most of the early church were Jews. All the books but one were penned by Jews, the Evangelist and historian Luke being the NT exception that was not taught directly by Jesus (Luke serves as the cutoff for later texts that began to surface). Today there are Messianic Jews. And perhaps it is needless to say whether Jesus was believed or not; it is evident Jesus had a major impact upon Judaism, his religion. Undoubtedly, some of the Jews wanted Barabbas @TLHKAJ, not disagreeing with you.
Also, remember in Jeremiah some were said to believe the name was G-d, the L-rd, and some called Him their Teacher and some their Father (Jeremiah 3:1). Gentiles are grafted into the same covenant tree, the Davidic covenant, an everlasting covenant that expands the OT and NT covenantal divide (one tree). Time and time again throughout the OT the everlasting covenant was mentioned that was for the audience at the time, not only for their children and those far off (Peter's address to the House of Israel, Acts)
I reject replacement theology (also called supersessionism or fulfillment theology), a Christian doctrine asserting that the Church has superseded, or replaced, ethnic Israel as G-d's chosen people. It claims that because the Jewish nation rejected Jesus as the Messiah, G-d transferred the covenant promises and blessings to the universal Christian Church.

 

[Wrangler]

 

[TLHKAJ]

Today there are Messianic Jews. And perhaps it is needless to say whether Jesus was believed or not; it is said Jesus had a major impact upon Judaism, his religion. Undoubtedly, some of the Jews wanted Barabbas @TLHKAJ, not disagreeing with you.

I fully agree. I'm not anti-Jew, or antisemitic. And yet, not everyone who says they're a Jew is a Jew.

 

[Ziggy]

I do have a serious question though,
There are 12 tribes of Israel. One of those tribes is the tribe of Judah.
Is it Judah where the word Jew comes from?
And what of the other 11 tribes?

Is the Israel today , the State that is, made up of all the tribes or just some?
And which ones?

Who are the Jews?

Hugs

 

[Bombastic]

I fully agree. I'm not anti-Jew, or antisemitic. And yet, not everyone who says they're a Jew is a Jew.

It is an interesting thing, any animosity between Jews and Christians.
Martin Luther: When Jewish people overwhelmingly rejected his calls to convert, Luther's attitude turned bitterly hostile. In 1543, he published "On the Jews and Their Lies." In this 65,000-word manifesto, he advocated for severe persecution, calling for the following: Setting fire to synagogues and schools. Forbidding rabbis from teaching under threat of death. Razing Jewish homes and confiscating property. Forcing Jewish people into manual labor or expelling them.

I often wonder what Jews think about Gentile handling of their sacred text. From a modern perspective, liberal theology is infiltrating the churches, and we only need to observe how other Christians handle liberals, feminists, egalitarians, etc. regarding their sacred text.

Enjoy @TLHKAJ

 

[Bombastic]

I do have a serious question though,
There are 12 tribes of Israel. One of those tribes is the tribe of Judah.
Is it Judah where the word Jew comes from?
And what of the other 11 tribes?

Is the Israel today , the State that is, made up of all the tribes or just some?
And which ones?

Who are the Jews?

Hugs

Here's a good Christian resource with both the concordance and lexicon on the same page:

Strong's Hebrew: 3064. יְהוּדִי (Yehudi) -- Jews, Jew, Jewish

And if interested, from a Jewish source, the Chabad:

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/45132/jewish/What-Is-a-Jew.htm

https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/1013558/jewish/Jew-Noun-or-Verb.htm

 

[Ziggy]

Here's a good Christian resource with both the concordance and lexicon on the same page:

Strong's Hebrew: 3064. יְהוּדִי (Yehudi) -- Jews, Jew, Jewish

And if interested, from a Jewish source, the Chabad:

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/45132/jewish/What-Is-a-Jew.htm

https://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/1013558/jewish/Jew-Noun-or-Verb.htm

So you want me to do my own research?


Thank You for providing me the information,
Right after I finish researching flies.

Hugs

 

[Lizbeth]

We work in the flesh! Feeding the hungry and giving alms to the poor is work of the flesh. Sad that you equate tending to soulful needs as sinful. Just because Jesus never boarded a plane does make our doing it a sinful work of the flesh. He had his lane and we have ours.

I believe good deeds can either be a work of the flesh (self-righteousness) or they can proceed from faith (righteousness of Christ).

In any case, how can you equate doing what sustains life to that which takes away life? We are to love our enemies, not kill them. It's not a difficult concept to grasp. Overcome evil with good. We the church leave judgment/vengeance in God's hands. This is thankfully not the age and covenant of eye for an eye and tooth for tooth. If it were, none of us would be saved. Governments are to be the punishers of evil, not the church. The church is to remain separate/holy. Our mission is the gospel, not Law.

 

[amigo de christo]

I believe good deeds can either be a work of the flesh (self-righteousness) or they can proceed from faith (righteousness of Christ).

In any case, how can you equate doing what sustains life to that which takes away life? We are to love our enemies, not kill them. It's not a difficult concept to grasp. Overcome evil with good. We the church leave judgment/vengeance in God's hands. This is thankfully not the age and covenant of eye for an eye and tooth for tooth. If it were, none of us would be saved. Governments are to be the punishers of evil, not the church. The church is to remain separate/holy. Our mission is the gospel, not Law.

Ye shall indeed know them by their f ruits .
The Fruit of the SPIRIT is in all righteousness , g odliness and TRUTH
proving what is acceptable TO GOD .
The fruit of the wicked is TO SIN .
What DID JESUS preach . DID HE SAY LIVE by THE SWORD
or did HE say HE who lives by the SWORD shall DIE by the SWORD .
It wont ma tter if one had some good works , NOT IF THEY DENIED JESUS it wont .
What did JESUS tell pointus pilate .
Did HE say hey ponitus , MY KINGDOM IS OF EARTH , YOU need to get the support of ROME
and start some crusades .
OR did HE say , MY KINGDOM is NOT of the world , if it were MY SERVANTS WOULD HAVE FOUGHT
to KEEP me from being arrested .
How about paul , peter , john , jude or james .
DID we see in any of their letters , HEY you gots to get political
You gots to have your hope and trust in govts .
NOPE .
NOT EVEN .
THEY KNEW sister . OH THEY KNEW all right .
THEIR KINGDOM was not of this w orld , and their mission was THE GOSPEL preaching
and not THE SWORD . Something went dead wrong sister . And something has indeed
went dead wrong . Soon again the mission of this powerful govt
of the world will again enforce the crusades and it will be CONVERT OR DIE .
YET AGAIN . THAT , my near and dear sister , IS WHAT MERGING THE EARTHEN AND THE HEAVENLY
always leads too . THE BLOOD OF ALL WHO WONT CONFORM . CRUSADES .
we seen this also in the RCC VERSES PROTESTANT .
WHEN THE CC was in power they used THE GOVT to round up and persecute the protestant .
AND VICE VERSA . WHEN THE PROTESTANT was in power they USED the govt to persecute the catholic .
AINT NOTHING NEW UNDER THAT SUN .
Soon the ecumeincal cry of the harlot will become the cry of the crusades against any and all
who do not and will not conform to her plan of peace for the world . Oh yeah . HERE IT COMES TOO .

 

[Lizbeth]

That may be true.
In my view, it is impossible for the ideology that omits the Old Testament from its foundation, and insists Jesus ,who is God, is a strong pacifist and would also condemn any who are not also strong pacifists,to be a righteous teaching or provide righteous understanding.

I don't believe government should be pacifist, only the body of Christ, His church/ekklesia.....who have been called out of the world. Our warfare is spiritual, not carnal. Law was added because of transgressions.....it is a practical necessity in this world for the unrighteous, not the righteous.

 

[Marvelloustime]

Ye shall indeed know them by their f ruits .
The Fruit of the SPIRIT is in all righteousness , g odliness and TRUTH
proving what is acceptable TO GOD .
The fruit of the wicked is TO SIN .
What DID JESUS preach . DID HE SAY LIVE by THE SWORD
or did HE say HE who lives by the SWORD shall DIE by the SWORD .
It wont ma tter if one had some good works , NOT IF THEY DENIED JESUS it wont .
What did JESUS tell pointus pilate .
Did HE say hey ponitus , MY KINGDOM IS OF EARTH , YOU need to get the support of ROME
and start some crusades .
OR did HE say , MY KINGDOM is NOT of the world , if it were MY SERVANTS WOULD HAVE FOUGHT
to KEEP me from being arrested .
How about paul , peter , john , jude or james .
DID we see in any of their letters , HEY you gots to get political
You gots to have your hope and trust in govts .
NOPE .
NOT EVEN .
THEY KNEW sister . OH THEY KNEW all right .
THEIR KINGDOM was not of this w orld , and their mission was THE GOSPEL preaching
and not THE SWORD . Something went dead wrong sister . And something has indeed
went dead wrong . Soon again the mission of this powerful govt
of the world will again enforce the crusades and it will be CONVERT OR DIE .
YET AGAIN . THAT , my near and dear sister , IS WHAT MERGING THE EARTHEN AND THE HEAVENLY
always leads too . THE BLOOD OF ALL WHO WONT CONFORM . CRUSADES .
we seen this also in the RCC VERSES PROTESTANT .
WHEN THE CC was in power they used THE GOVT to round up and persecute the protestant .
AND VICE VERSA . WHEN THE PROTESTANT was in power they USED the govt to persecute the catholic .
AINT NOTHING NEW UNDER THAT SUN .
Soon the ecumeincal cry of the harlot will become the cry of the crusades against any and all
who do not and will not conform to her plan of peace for the world . Oh yeah . HERE IT COMES TOO .

@amigo de christo

 

[Lizbeth]

Amen. This is the very reason the majority of Jews rejected Jesus Christ as their Messiah. He didn't come as a king conquering their enemies. He came in humility, a servant, doing good, and then died on the cross.

Amen. Looking for an earthly kingdom that is of this world is what tripped them up and cause them to miss Christ the Messiah in the first century, and unfortunately they are still looking for and working towards an earthly kingdom. Jesus tried to correct that wrong belief when He told them His kingdom is not of this world. Many in the church now have that same wrong belief and understanding, and are linking arms with Israel. It's all deception......and God's word says we are not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers but come out from among them and be separate (holy!). Much as I wish them well, unbelieving Israel are still unbelievers and lost souls.

 

[Lizbeth]

Great video.

Unfortunately, it,like the Old Testament itself,will be irrelevant to New Testament faithful.

The old testament is very relevant.........for instruction in righteousness and being richly laden with spiritual lessons which we need spiritual eyes to see and spiritual ears to hear and understand them.

 

[Lizbeth]

Isaiah 11:1
In other words, not all prophecies about the Messiah were fulfilled. Post-Christendom, too, struggled, but momentum increased after the gospels were circulated and certain events occurred.
Keep in mind, the faithful remnant of the OT had/have a forward-looking faith, while NT saints have a historical faith.
That is apart from the eschatological second coming or complete fulfillment of those OT prophecies.
While it is true that Jews rejected Jesus, it is also true that Jesus was a Jew; his followers, disciples, apostles, and most of the early church were Jews. All the books but one were penned by Jews, the Evangelist and historian Luke being the NT exception that was not taught directly by Jesus (Luke serves as the cutoff for later texts that began to surface). Today there are Messianic Jews. And perhaps it is needless to say whether Jesus was believed or not; it is evident Jesus had a major impact upon Judaism, his religion. Undoubtedly, some of the Jews wanted Barabbas @TLHKAJ, not disagreeing with you.
Also, remember in Jeremiah some were said to believe the name was G-d, the L-rd, and some called Him their Teacher and some their Father (Jeremiah 3:1). Gentiles are grafted into the same covenant tree, the Davidic covenant, an everlasting covenant that expands the OT and NT covenantal divide (one tree). Time and time again throughout the OT the everlasting covenant was mentioned that was for the audience at the time, not only for their children and those far off (Peter's address to the House of Israel, Acts)
I reject replacement theology (also called supersessionism or fulfillment theology), a Christian doctrine asserting that the Church has superseded, or replaced, ethnic Israel as G-d's chosen people. It claims that because the Jewish nation rejected Jesus as the Messiah, G-d transferred the covenant promises and blessings to the universal Christian Church.

Mat 21:43
“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.

 

[Wrangler]

In any case, how can you equate doing what sustains life to that which takes away life? We are to love our enemies, not kill them.

As usual, you are 100% wrong due to being overly spiritualized. There is a direct relationship between taking a life and saving lives in many instances. We take evil life to save innocent life. This is justice! We are commanded by God to seek justice in this life.

For some reason, you want to pretend we are only spirit beings who Sabbath 7 days per week. You want to deny that we are soulful beings with a body that has needs and there is something sinful about tending to those needs. This includes Ordo Amoris. We don't wash dishes or are clothes in obedience to God's spiritual regulations. We do it to tend to our God given bodily needs. Likewise, we don't kill because it fulfills our duty to God; we do it to fulfill our duty to those who God placed in authority over us! Romans 13

Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. 2 So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished. ... 4 The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good. ... sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong. 5 So you must submit to them, not only to avoid punishment, but also to keep a clear conscience.​

Let me type this slowly so you will understand the importance of killing our enemies; There is no literal, physical, survival otherwise in war or in self-defense. Discernment between the spiritual and soulful is needed. The idea that we are to "love our enemies" is on a personal level and NOT to be construed to condone treason, NOT to violate the confines of Give to Caesar what is Caesar's in doing justice in judging this life. Mica 6:8. Just because I "love my enemy" doesn't mean I'm going do stand there and let someone kill my grandchildren as a sign of how pious I am!

1. Why do you disregard our responsibility to judge this life? 1 Corinthians 6:3
2. And why do you fail to submit to governing authorities in killing when it is required to do so? Romans 13

 

[Wrangler]

We the church leave judgment/vengeance in God's hands.

But we the people have the responsibility to do justice in this life.

We are not just one thing. Not just the church. We are also citizens with duties to perform justice - as God commands. It is not the exclusive burden for those outside the church to do justice.

 

[Lizbeth]

I don't believe any reasonable person could arrive at your supposition when reading my post.


But,you're not.

His adversary remains ,by his will,lord of this world.
A lord who is only capable of being and exercising his power if God allows.

You might consider that.
Satan is lord by God's permission here.

Luk 10:17-20

And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.


Jhn 12:31-33

NOW is the judgment of this world: NOW shall the prince of this world be cast out.

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

This he said, signifying what death he should die.


Mat 28:18

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

 

[Lizbeth]

But we the people have the responsibility to do justice in this life.

We are not just one thing. Not just the church. We are also citizens with duties to perform justice - as God commands. It is not the exclusive burden for those outside the church to do justice.

We are instructed PERSONALLY to be just and fair in our dealings and to personally help and advocate for those who need help, the vulnerable, widows and orphans for example. That is not the same thing as making and enforcing laws and executing justice as a legal body. The calling of the church body is HIGHER than that of the governing/legal bodies of this world.

 

[Wrangler]

That is not the same thing as making and enforcing laws and executing justice as a legal body. The calling of the church body is HIGHER than that of the governing/legal bodies of this world.

It’s the EXACT SAME THING. We have the burden to do justice and this is true be it directly or through our agents. Scripture is filled with examples of agents, one person doing something on behalf of another. Moses didn’t say, talking to Pharaoh is not my job. John didn’t keep his opinions of Herod to himself.

Let me say it again; doing justice is not the exclusive burden of those outside the church.

You take “loving our enemies” to mean be victims; that’s foolish and wrong. And you are totally wrong to pretend we ONLY have a “higher” calling; that’s your over-spiritualization again. Jesus didn’t use that cop out - he said Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s. To your way of thinking, doing the needful is beneath you.

1. Why do you ignore Ordoro Amoris?
2. Why do you ignore YHWH is A warrior in command of divine armies is who we are made in the image of, who commanded his chosen people to kill women, children, babies and animals.
3. And why do you not answer my other questions?

Avoiding these questions tell the story.