Christian Nationalism

[Gray_Joy]

You're twisting the Word. The only "violence" we see from Jesus in scripture is overturning moneychangers' tables and running them out with whips. It doesn't say that He actually whipped them, either. It could be that just having a weapon in hand is deterrent enough. It's there in case of the extreme case it's unavoidable, but not a go-to. He literally said if you live by the sword, you will die by the sword. You choose. I'll do my best to stay within His bounds. Vengeance isn't mine.

Jesus being God fashioned a whip with his own hands. A weapon.

He didn't have to do that in order to vanquish the money changers from before his father's house. But he did.

Money fell all over the ground when he overturned those tables.
Money!

Jesus made a whip with his own hands before he knocked over all those money tables in a busy square.

And were to think he didn't use the whip he didn't have to make,being his voice could make the money changers leave, because the Bible doesn't expressly state he whipped people? When he went after people and animals with the whip he fashioned with his own hands,we know he whipped people and animals.

 

[Bombastic]

He meant what He said, most definitely. But not every disciple had a sword. Two disciples had swords and He said that was enough. He wasn't outfitting a terrorist group or a military army. And clearly, there were times when it wasn't appropriate to use that sword ....such as cutting off a man's ear. If we can't hear the voice of the Lord and exercise restraint, we would be better off not to have a weapon at all.

I liked your previous post: Christian Nationalism
Based upon the same method of interpretation, I agree. And for this post, that is an assumption at worst; we don't know.
Peter was obviously armed; all that is mentioned is that Peter unsheathed his sword. Nowhere in Scripture did Jesus rebuke Peter for carrying a sword. Nothing wrong with inference as long as the limitations are understood. I mean, perhaps only a couple were unarmed, and Jesus said two swords are enough? Because then all might be armed in the context of sending out more than 12 disciples, 70, etc., two by two. If two swords are enough when sent two by two, would that not be everybody? Sure you understand what I am attempting to convey. And I see no indication Jesus was making an allusion to any spiritual sword.

When Jesus said those who live by the sword will die by the sword, the OT states Israel was not to multiply chariots, horses, or wives. In other words, do not put your faith in the military, economy, or peace treaties. That did not mean to disarm, etc.; it meant to not place your faith in the wrong object.
G-d bless,
@TLHKAJ

 

[Gray_Joy]

He meant what He said, most definitely. But not every disciple had a sword. Two disciples had swords and He said that was enough. He wasn't outfitting a terrorist group or a military army. And clearly, there were times when it wasn't appropriate to use that sword ....such as cutting off a man's ear. If we can't hear the voice of the Lord and exercise restraint, we would be better off not to have a weapon at all.

Peter cut the ear off a temple guard.
Which means a fisherman learned how to use a sword very well. Which means he had practiced with that sword so to know how to wield it.

Jesus was God on Earth. He told his Disciples to buy swords. They told him they had purchased two thus far.

Jesus said two were enough. He didn't say they wouldn't buy any more. Because he first told 12 Disciples to buy swords. And this means 10 others were still to arm up.

Two were enough in that moment.

If Jesus was nonviolent he would have never told his Disciples to buy swords. Even if they had to sell their cloaks to do so.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Peter cut the ear off a temple guard.
Which means a fisherman learned how to use a sword very well. Which means he had practiced with that sword so to know how to wield it.

Jesus was God on Earth. He told his Disciples to buy swords. They told him they had purchased two thus far.

Jesus said two were enough. He didn't say they wouldn't buy any more. Because he first told 12 Disciples to buy swords. And this means 10 others were still to arm up.

Two were enough in that moment.

If Jesus was nonviolent he would have never told his Disciples to buy swords. Even if they had to sell their cloaks to do so.

Do we have an example of the disciples and Jesus going out and targeting and killing off groups of people?

 

[Gray_Joy]

Do we have an example of the disciples and Jesus going out and targeting and killing off groups of people?

No.
You'd have to read his Old Testament for that.

 

[Wrangler]

It says s lot when someone claims to believe in Jesus but refused to believe he meant what he said.

It says IDOLATRY when someone claims to believe in Jesus but refused to believe he meant what he said.

 

[Wrangler]

Which is worse, somebody that acts in abuse and professes lies in the name of G-d or an unbeliever that lies? Or an extreme example, a pedophile or a pedophile priest?

screenshot of a "Christian" juror. I have no idea what that peer said behind closed doors (and because it doesn't show up on my screen). That juror would nail you against the wall. And that is what the prosecutor would fill the juror box full of.

View attachment 86349

8 really don’t understand what you’re saying.

 

[Bombastic]

@TLHKAJ I want to thank you for helping to inspire a few paragraphs in my article. Your civil discourse and engagement have helped further expand what I considered a completed work.
The paragraphs I added from this thread are subtitled, Peter’s Armed Readiness and the Limits of Inference, Live by the Sword in Proper Biblical Context, and Sidebar: A Necessary Caution: Armed Readiness Without Eagerness for Blood

Levi’s Double-Edged Sword: Priests of Covenant and Guardians of Justice in a World Gone Soft - Isaiah School

Explore G-d’s covenant with Levi in Isaiah and Malachi, disciplined zeal over identity politics, Jacob’s rebuke, Sinai’s stand, Barnabas’ example, and the biblical balance of swords. Isaiah.school turns to Levi as paradigm of covenantal fidelity, disciplined service, and integrated...

isaiah.school

 

[Gray_Joy]

It says IDOLATRY when someone claims to believe in Jesus but refused to believe he meant what he said.

That too.

 

[TLHKAJ]

No.
You'd have to read his Old Testament for that.

In the OT, there were times God instructed His people to displace and annihilate whole groups because they were nephilim and mixture with nephilim.

 

[Ziggy]

That's wrong, @TLHKAJ and as you are probably aware, today that can result in somebody, especially a Christian with strong conviction, facing charges whether criminal or civil (mental evaluation, detained for an indefinite time, or a threat to society without criminal charges).
Never threaten with a gun, never pull a gun, or never show it unless you're going to use it. And then a gun is the last resort or line of protection, and it is meant for lethal force. As you are probably aware today, a survivor will probably win in court no matter whether or not they are guilty, and the shooter, whether or not justified, will at least be detained for some time, if not criminally charged.
Meanwhile, in a blue state, your children's welfare will be under social services while pending charges to appear before a liberal judge.
I hate politics! But I can understand, in this context, the necessity of righteous as well as moral foundations of Scripture behind the zeal of today's Christian nationalism movement.
Could you imagine some of these people here in this very thread being judges from a bench and you mentioning you're a Christian? Or a jury full of them as your peers? Which are worse? Liberal secularists or these kinds of people?
Hearing me @Wrangler?

On most accounts Christians aren't bloodthirsty.
We don't go looking for people picking up sticks so we can stone them.
But we do believe in a fair trial and Justice.
And evidence. Not just heresy as the manner of some is.
Like dresses that are supposedly worn when they haven't even been made yet.
Little things like that, ya know.
One side of their mouth they tell you they got assaulted and out the other side they think r*pe is sexy.
I'm just saying.

How can you even take them seriously. And then to have the whole world accuse you of something that you know the accuser is falsely testifying to, and you get called a liar.

And these are the times you turn the other cheek. Not because you forgive them, which you should, but because you give way for God to have his vengeance upon them.
And their day will come.

And there are times when swift justice is required. When someone murders someone with intent. Crimes against Humanity.
Knowingly and willingly.
That's why we have laws. And our laws aren't very far from God's laws. We don't stone them. But they should be locked up to protect other innocent people from being harmed. None of this sanctuary city crap.

Christians are good people at heart, not like blood thirsty terrorists that want to cut your head off if you show a little skin.

Liberals on the other hand, they have no mercy. Watch the protests and the riots, they kick you in the face and laugh, and do it again.
2020 I stayed up 120 days and nights watching those mostly peaceful protests. I was in live chats trying to reason with people that only had destruction on their mind and in their path.
Half of them just ignorant kids, not knowing why for sure, but just going along for the ride.

Was a sad time. It almost broke me. SO I come here looking for my own refuge.
And since then I consider this my 2nd home. And even if we don't agree and argue and say nasty things to each other, I still consider you my family.
Always have even when I have to play the bass once in awhile to get some space.

Anywho,
my head is wrecked tonight. My left ankle decided to blow up like a balloon. Dad is getting weaker, but we're still holding on.
Love you all
Even if you don't think I do

Hugs

 

[Gray_Joy]

On most accounts Christians aren't bloodthirsty.
We don't go looking for people picking up sticks so we can stone them.
But we do believe in a fair trial and Justice.
And evidence. Not just heresy as the manner of some is.
Like dresses that are supposedly worn when they haven't even been made yet.
Little things like that, ya know.
One side of their mouth they tell you they got assaulted and out the other side they think r*pe is sexy.
I'm just saying.

How can you even take them seriously. And then to have the whole world accuse you of something that you know the accuser is falsely testifying to, and you get called a liar.

And these are the times you turn the other cheek. Not because you forgive them, which you should, but because you give way for God to have his vengeance upon them.
And their day will come.

And there are times when swift justice is required. When someone murders someone with intent. Crimes against Humanity.
Knowingly and willingly.
That's why we have laws. And our laws aren't very far from God's laws. We don't stone them. But they should be locked up to protect other innocent people from being harmed. None of this sanctuary city crap.

Christians are good people at heart, not like blood thirsty terrorists that want to cut your head off if you show a little skin.

Liberals on the other hand, they have no mercy. Watch the protests and the riots, they kick you in the face and laugh, and do it again.
2020 I stayed up 120 days and nights watching those mostly peaceful protests. I was in live chats trying to reason with people that only had destruction on their mind and in their path.
Half of them just ignorant kids, not knowing why for sure, but just going along for the ride.

Was a sad time. It almost broke me. SO I come here looking for my own refuge.
And since then I consider this my 2nd home. And even if we don't agree and argue and say nasty things to each other, I still consider you my family.
Always have even when I have to play the bass once in awhile to get some space.

Anywho,
my head is wrecked tonight. My left ankle decided to blow up like a balloon. Dad is getting weaker, but we're still holding on.
Love you all
Even if you don't think I do

Hugs

Take care of yourself sister. Prayers for you and your dad too.

There's something wrong when an argument exists that says evil should be allowed to reign undeterred by righteousness and righteous defense.

And that truth is truth even if Satan speaks it.

It isn't Biblical. And that is what says it all.
God said,anyone who does not provide for his family,which would include protection, is worse than an unbeliever.

God does not change.

So,when we read God saying we should succumb to evil and not dare fight back, we're not reading God's words. We're reading early church fathers who injected their socio-
political ideology into scripture, using Jesus as their cover.

If we proceed from the fact of God telling us he is the same yesterday,today,and forever and he does not change, any teacher that tells us God has changed, is not of God.

Can you imagine someone telling police after the fact,they say there and allowed a home invader to beat,rape and kill his wife because God said, do not resist an evil person?

Police would be looking at that husband as their primary suspect.

Do not resist an evil person.

Think about what that's telling you.

Abide evil. Abide sin.

Is that God?

 

[TLHKAJ]

@TLHKAJ I want to thank you for helping to inspire a few paragraphs in my article. Your civil discourse and engagement have helped further expand what I considered a completed work.
The paragraphs I added from this thread are subtitled, Peter’s Armed Readiness and the Limits of Inference, Live by the Sword in Proper Biblical Context, and Sidebar: A Necessary Caution: Armed Readiness Without Eagerness for Blood

Levi’s Double-Edged Sword: Priests of Covenant and Guardians of Justice in a World Gone Soft - Isaiah School

Explore G-d’s covenant with Levi in Isaiah and Malachi, disciplined zeal over identity politics, Jacob’s rebuke, Sinai’s stand, Barnabas’ example, and the biblical balance of swords. Isaiah.school turns to Levi as paradigm of covenantal fidelity, disciplined service, and integrated...

isaiah.school

Thank you for sharing this with me.

 

[Ziggy]

Take care of yourself sister. Prayers for you and your dad too.

There's something wrong when an argument exists that says evil should be allowed to reign undeterred by righteousness and righteous defense.

And that truth is truth even if Satan speaks it.

It isn't Biblical. And that is what says it all.
God said,anyone who does not provide for his family,which would include protection, is worse than an unbeliever.

God does not change.

So,when we read God saying we should succumb to evil and not dare fight back, we're not reading God's words. We're reading early church fathers who injected their socio-
political ideology into scripture, using Jesus as their cover.

If we proceed from the fact of God telling us he is the same yesterday,today,and forever and he does not change, any teacher that tells us God has changed, is not of God.

Can you imagine someone telling police after the fact,they say there and allowed a home invader to beat,rape and kill his wife because God said, do not resist an evil person?

Police would be looking at that husband as their primary suspect.

Do not resist an evil person.

Think about what that's telling you.

Abide evil. Abide sin.

Is that God?

The enemy of life is death.
Jesus willingly submitted himself to death so that he could take up life again, thus defeating death in it's own folly.
Our cross is to follow him and to die to our own earthly wants and desires and greed and to recieve his life for ours.
That doesn't mean that we give up his will, his desire that he works through us.
God is a God of Mercy and Justice.
There is a time for both.
And when it is time for Judgment God chooses his own means of getting people's attention.
Sometimes he has to bring you to the precipice before your willing to change your own ways and let him have his way through you.

But God is adament when it comes to those things he hates. He lists them a few times so there is no mistake.
And he decides when his grace is sufficient for the one who needs a whipping.

But the world is on the precipice. And I thin he is trying to get people's attention.
Turn back now before it's too late.
And he'll use whatever means necessary to do it.
War, Pestilence, you know the list, famine, beasts of the earth.
The if nothing works and your not listening, that Pale Horse be coming for you.

Hugs sis
Have to put dad to bed.
I need more muscles lol.
so tired.
BBL

 

[Justified]

There's no twisting of Scripture in recognizing the wars in the Old Testament.

Denying they exist, is an affront to God.

I haven’t denied anything. Don’t try and put words in my mouth. His post goes far beyond merely “recognizing the wars in the Old Testament,” he’s saying that what God has commanded in the OT to Israel alone, for a specific time and for specific reasons, applies also to believers. But that is patently false.

 

[Justified]

Take care of yourself sister. Prayers for you and your dad too.

There's something wrong when an argument exists that says evil should be allowed to reign undeterred by righteousness and righteous defense.

And that truth is truth even if Satan speaks it.

It isn't Biblical. And that is what says it all.
God said,anyone who does not provide for his family,which would include protection, is worse than an unbeliever.

God does not change.

So,when we read God saying we should succumb to evil and not dare fight back, we're not reading God's words. We're reading early church fathers who injected their socio-
political ideology into scripture, using Jesus as their cover.

If we proceed from the fact of God telling us he is the same yesterday,today,and forever and he does not change, any teacher that tells us God has changed, is not of God.

Can you imagine someone telling police after the fact,they say there and allowed a home invader to beat,rape and kill his wife because God said, do not resist an evil person?

Police would be looking at that husband as their primary suspect.

Do not resist an evil person.

Think about what that's telling you.

Abide evil. Abide sin.

Is that God?

But this is a straw man based on a false exegesis of scripture. No one is saying we don’t fight back, because Christians are to fight back. How we do so is largely based on context. But the primary method we’ve been given is relying on God through prayer:

Eph 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
Eph 6:13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
Eph 6:15 and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace.
Eph 6:16 In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one;
Eph 6:17 and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God,
Eph 6:18 praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,

That is what you and a few others continually ignore, preferring your interpretations driven by fear and a lack of trust in God.

 

[Gray_Joy]

The enemy of life is death.
Jesus willingly submitted himself to death so that he could take up life again, thus defeating death in it's own folly.
Our cross is to follow him and to die to our own earthly wants and desires and greed and to recieve his life for ours.
That doesn't mean that we give up his will, his desire that he works through us.
God is a God of Mercy and Justice.
There is a time for both.
And when it is time for Judgment God chooses his own means of getting people's attention.
Sometimes he has to bring you to the precipice before your willing to change your own ways and let him have his way through you.

But God is adament when it comes to those things he hates. He lists them a few times so there is no mistake.
And he decides when his grace is sufficient for the one who needs a whipping.

But the world is on the precipice. And I thin he is trying to get people's attention.
Turn back now before it's too late.
And he'll use whatever means necessary to do it.
War, Pestilence, you know the list, famine, beasts of the earth.
The if nothing works and your not listening, that Pale Horse be coming for you.

Hugs sis
Have to put dad to bed.
I need more muscles lol.
so tired.
BBL

Sweet dreaming to you Sister.

 

[Gray_Joy]

I haven’t denied anything. Don’t try and put words in my mouth. His post goes far beyond merely “recognizing the wars in the Old Testament,” he’s saying that what God has commanded in the OT to Israel alone, for a specific time and for specific reasons, applies also to believers. But that is patently false.

The Hebrews,Israel,weren't believers?

 

[Gray_Joy]

But this is a straw man based on a false exegesis of scripture. No one is saying we don’t fight back, because Christians are to fight back. How we do so is largely based on context. But the primary method we’ve been given is relying on God through prayer:

Eph 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
Eph 6:13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
Eph 6:15 and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace.
Eph 6:16 In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one;
Eph 6:17 and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God,
Eph 6:18 praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,

That is what you and a few others continually ignore, preferring your interpretations driven by fear and a lack of trust in God.

No. Myself and a few others respond to those who insist God demands non-violence and passivity in the face of offensive evil.

 

[TLHKAJ]

No. Myself and a few others respond to those who insist God demands non-violence and passivity in the face of offensive evil.

These things are being used as an excuse to attack and kill Gazans and Iranians, and men on fishing boats. None of them were attacking you or any of us ....at least they weren't until Trump waged an attack on them. Now, Iran is going to produce nuclear weapons out of necessity to protect themselves from other nations WHO DO have nuclear weapons. The only nation that has used nuclear weapons is the United States.