Christianity as a Closed System

[St. SteVen]

So for me personally, I don't recognize the statement from 'St. SteVen' as being from the Lord, who again said that He "stands and the door knocking and if anyone opens the door..."

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[Wrangler]

And yet you wrote that anyone at your door knocking who was not invited is acting rudely?

Yup! And you belaboring the point changes nothing.

 

[Karl Peters]

Sorry but your thinking is speculative and seems like an endless discussion with no use.

My thinking is that we should listen to the Lord - and that to you is "no use"???
Or perhaps you think it "speculative"?

 

[Karl Peters]

View attachment 44619

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I liked the post - it does seem like that is how we often treat the Lord!

 

[Karl Peters]

Yup! And you belaboring the point changes nothing.

Ok - so you are going to continue to think that anyone knocking at your door, and even with their voice is "Rude" and it makes you feel bad, so you are not going to change anything.

What I don't get is why you write:

The most important commandment is this: “Hear, O Israel, the Eternal One is our God, and the Eternal One is the only God.,
32 he is one, and that there is no other besides him
Mark 12:29, 32 (VOICE, CJB)

I can only guess that commandment really bothers you, since it is Him (the Eternal One) talking at the door that we have to open to hear from Him and keep that commandment. You think Him rude, according to what you wrote. And that He give you "eternal conscious torment."? And He causes you some type of 'guilt trip'?

I kind of get it - we do have to repent, and He is going to reprove us, just as written:

Rev 3: 19,20 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.
‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

So tell me honestly; where does that actually leave you - considering you know the 'most important commandment' but it makes you think He is rude, and He makes you feel a 'guilt trip' - and that is not going to change anything?

 

[ElieG12]

My thinking is that we should listen to the Lord - and that to you is "no use"???
Or perhaps you think it "speculative"?

I can see your "thinking" in your post#161.

I wonder why there is so much intolerance here with JWs and disrespectful mockers like yourself are freely posting in the forum with nobody question their behavior and their propagation of anti-Christian ideas.

Are you a sponsor of the website and do you have free rein to make fun of Christians here?

 

[St. SteVen]

I liked the post - it does seem like that is how we often treat the Lord!

On occasion, I will ask the question:

Did Jesus die to save you from God?

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[Wrangler]

I can only guess that commandment really bothers you, since it is Him (the Eternal One) talking at the door

That’s where you are flat out wrong. People are invited not coerced into the kingdom. ‘believe as I do are you going burn in hell’ is not love but coercion.

 

[David in NJ]

As I have said often, "I was raised Protestant evangelical." --- A closed system.
Which had an odd antithetical twist. You can't DO evangelism without talking to the "lost". (those outside the closed system)
And only mature evangelicals were even allowed to do it, for fear you might be talked out of the system.

Evangelism was a "required" activity that involved talking AT the "lost", not talking WITH the "lost".
People became projects. And if the "project" seemed like a waste of time,
you could "shake the dust off your feet" and absolve yourself of any responsibility toward them.
(their blood not being on your hands)

In preparation for talking at the "lost" projects, we were armed with Christian Apologetics. (counter-arguments)
You were bound to encounter resistance to the "message" from the closed system.
The "success" of the evangelist depended on the strength of their counter-arguments.

Much more to say about this. Everyone and everything outside the closed system was held in suspicion.
Which required negative opinions about all of those things, so as to assure keeping a safe distance.

I was wondering, how many others have had similar experiences with church, or Christianity in general?

Or...

Thoughts from those who would defend Christianity, or a church, as a closed system. Seeing value in it.

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Not sure what you mean by a "closed system" since PE is open to reaching out to the world even though not the best approach.

Are not all religions "closed" unless you become as they are?

i was raised RCC which is "closed" unless you 'join' and adhere to their religious methodology.

The MAIN difference in Christ is that which CONNECTS us to God = John ch3, ch4, ch17 fulfilled in Acts ch1 & ch2

 

[Karl Peters]

I can see your "thinking" in your post#161.

I wonder why there is so much intolerance here with JWs and disrespectful mockers like yourself are freely posting in the forum with nobody question their behavior and their propagation of anti-Christian ideas.

Are you a sponsor of the website and do you have free rein to make fun of Christians here?

I am not mocking - that is you, is it not:

Look at what I wrote and what you wrote and compare!!

I wrote 2 questions:

"My thinking is that we should listen to the Lord - and that to you is "no use"???
Or perhaps you think it "speculative"?

And those based on what had been written:

Sorry but your thinking is speculative and seems like an endless discussion with no use.

That is not mockery - that is amazement!!!

In Christianity we talk about faith- and specifically faith in Jesus Christ!! What Christian doesn't know this? They must, it is prominently featured in the Bible! And yet someone thinks hearing from the Lord by fiath is "speculative"???

If a person does not believe that is is possible for hear from Jesus Christ by faith, I don't mock them!! I try to tell them that it is possible, and that it is possible to talk to the God, via His Word who is Jesus Christ (not your Bible but the person of Jesus Christ - who real Christians hear from vis His Holy Spirit talking to our spirit) Did we not read that His sheep hear His voice?

So then it is that I find amazing that anyone would be posting on a "Christian" forum and think it "speculative" to say Christians hear His voice, and need to!!!

It is not Jesus Christ who is "unbelievable" but people who claim to be Christians and yet think hearing from Jesus Christ to be "speculative" that is "unbelievable" Still - I am not mocking them, but pointing out this fact to them, because honestly - they are not a Christian no matter what they think and say - because it is still written the His sheep hear His voice and follow Him by hearing His voice!!

Jn 10: 26,27“But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep." “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;"

YOU ARE NOT BEING MOCKED YOU ARE BEING DISPROVEN!!!!!!


In the Bible we find something about a time would come when people would say what is right is wrong, and what is wrong is right. And this time is like that time which was talked about, is it not? That is to say we find people who though they are clearly proven to be wrong, they will still say they are right, as opposed to really considering what is presented. They then present themselves out to be the victim, when they are not such thing. They are not such a thing, they are instead so full of pride that they can't imagine they could ever be wrong!!

Someone thinking like that will never seek the voice of Jesus Christ, because He alone is the only One who is never wrong!! So before He said:
Rev 3:20 ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me."

he said to John:

Rev 3:19 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

You will never ever ever seek the voice and the word God has to say to you (which belong to Jesus Christ) until you understand that He is always going to be right your you are thus going to be proven wrong by Him when you talk to Him!!!

As for me, my instructions from Him are clear!! I am supposed to preach the Word of God and that to me Him and He wants people to listen to Him!!

The best post I have seen on this thread was an honest presentation of how we are with Him and it was post # 161 by St. SteVen!

Still, I don't think people really understand that post and the picture in it! The picture shows our version of how He is, and not how it really is. Our version is that we don't want to open up to Him and listen to Him, because we want to do what we want to do no matter how wrong we are!! Which is to say we are not going to accept "reproof! even though it would make us better! So He tells us He will save us (from out body of sin - and all unrighteousness is sin). So we ask from what are you going to save us from God. Now He actually says from sin and death, but we interpret that to mean from Him - because we do understand that God has to clean up sin and death (Us in our body)

Now He wants to clean us up by talking to us and reasoning with us, and showing us what is right like a teacher would show things to their students and disciples. But if you are not going to listen to Him, and going to remain in that rebellious state then sooner or later all those things will be burned and gotten ride of, simply because He needs to get rid of sin and unrighteousness.

 

[ElieG12]

Endless discussion with no end. You don't know me; Jesus does.
I don't care what you think about me, so don't make the thread something personal.

If you don't like my comment:

If we consider the faith taught by Jesus and his original followers as the body that defines true Christianity, then it may be considered somewhat more "closed", although that does not prevent the group or community that reflects that true Christianity, have an improved understanding of things that they previously interpreted somewhat differently. So in any case, it would never be a system open to outsiders to give their opinion regarding internal matters, nor so closed that it cannot be reviewed by the people who internally have that responsibility.

Matt. 24:45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so! 47 Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings."

The community "closed" to the public in a doctrinal sense is the house that the correct steward looks after... not any other outside group fed by someone different . No neighbor has any right or authority over one's family's needs.

... or about Christendom in general:

"Christianity" is a very ambiguous term which can refer to many different bodies of doctrines and practices, so it can't be considered a "closed system".

It's Ok with me.

True Christian INDIVIDUALS, in a closed system or not, always have to be learning, because they can never know everything.

This is my last post in this thread.

PS: I don't know why I have the impression that most of the threads opened on this forum are automatic and only created to generate traffic. The truth is that if any honest Christian is behind this lack of respect for God's affairs, he should consider that more important than money is having God's approval... and to have that we all have to learn to respect Him.