Christianity as a Closed System

[Lambano]

Thoughts from those who would defend Christianity, or a church, as a closed system. Seeing value in it.

There is a sense in which we are called to be a closed system, to be separate from the world:

For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. - Deuteronomy 7:6

Apparently, that calling hasn't been revoked:

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. - 2 Peter 2:9

And boy, are we peculiar.

 

[Lambano]

And then there is the very PURPOSE for which God called and still calls His people, which is to be an open system. We are here for THEM:

He says, “It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob
And to restore the protected ones of Israel;
I will also make You a light of the nations,
So that My salvation may reach to the end of the earth.” - Isaiah 49:6

“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Your light must shine before people in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven." - Matthew 5:14

These two dynamics conflict with each other, but they must remain in tension for us to be what we're called to be.

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic.

Which one are you in the story of the Prodigal?

I suppose we all know the story of the Prodigal. (Luke 15:11-32) But the characters can be representative of those in (and out) of the church. - The son that squandered his inheritance in riotous living. - The father that took him back unconditionally. - The older brother that complained...

www.christianityboard.com

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[Hey You!]

This is an extension of a previous topic.

Theistic Agnosticism - The honesty to admit we don't know everything

This term came up this morning in a discussion over coffee. I thought it worth discussing further. Being raised in the church, I was held in a bubble of "we have all the answers." Now that I am an adult, I realize the reason for that. We DIDN'T have all the questions. I know, I know... (who...

www.christianityboard.com

As I have said often, "I was raised Protestant evangelical." --- A closed system.
Which had an odd antithetical twist. You can't DO evangelism without talking to the "lost". (those outside the closed system)
And only mature evangelicals were even allowed to do it, for fear you might be talked out of the system.

Evangelism was a "required" activity that involved talking AT the "lost", not talking WITH the "lost".
People became projects. And if the "project" seemed like a waste of time,
you could "shake the dust off your feet" and absolve yourself of any responsibility toward them.
(their blood not being on your hands)

In preparation for talking at the "lost" projects, we were armed with Christian Apologetics. (counter-arguments)
You were bound to encounter resistance to the "message" from the closed system.
The "success" of the evangelist depended on the strength of their counter-arguments.

Much more to say about this. Everyone and everything outside the closed system was held in suspicion.
Which required negative opinions about all of those things, so as to assure keeping a safe distance.

I was wondering, how many others have had similar experiences with church, or Christianity in general?

Or...

Thoughts from those who would defend Christianity, or a church, as a closed system. Seeing value in it.

Kind of sounds like thinking inside the box...

Proof in a Box! ~ by ReverendRV * August 18

Mark 16:14 NIV; Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

On an open Forum an Atheist asked this question; ‘Suppose you were given a box and told that within it contains ironclad proof for the existence of God; would you open it?’. The overwhelming answer given by the Atheists was a resounding ‘YES’, jumping at that chance if it were to present itself. Some Christians answered by saying ‘No’; but I answered ‘Yes’. ~ I told them that the Bible is the Box they are looking for. Many people would reject this idea and say that they have already opened that box and found it to be empty. But I wondered that if they had opened the Bible with the same zeal they expressed about the supposed Box, maybe they would have had a different result and spotted some proof? History has shown us that some great Minds have set out to refute the Bible, opening it and expecting to find nothing; but seeing the proof they didn’t expect. ~ C. S. Lewis, Lee Strobel, Simon Greenleaf and Josh McDowell are but a few notable names of such people; research them and see how a genuine search can make a difference; do a little homework…

When you open the Bible and find it’s empty, close it back up and use the key of hopeful expectations, the zeal which was expressed by the respondents on that Forum; and try again. One of the best proofs you will find in the Box are the Dead Sea Scrolls. These copies of the Bible are the oldest that we have, in some cases predating the New Testament by 50-200 years. This shows the faithful transcribing of the Scriptures, since they are nearly a perfect match to what we have in our Bibles today. Since there are two complete copies of the Book of Isaiah within them, we can see that the Prophecies of a coming Messiah were not rewritten to picture Jesus; they picture Christ on their own. Even though this is the case, people still find ways to reject the point; but this rejection is not done in the spirit of those who gleefully wanted to open a Box of Proof. ~ A one page Gospel Tract will fall short of putting all Proofs on display. But even with a hundred Proofs, the Just shall live by Faith. We’re not Omniscient so we can’t be ‘a know it all’; but just know that Faith isn’t blind…

All have fallen short of the Glory of God; this is called Sin. All have Lied, Stolen, Hated and Lusted; thou shall not Covet! These are only a few of God’s Ten Commandments but the bad news is that when you’ve broken one of them, you are guilty of breaking all of them as if they were one Law. If God judged you by this, would you be innocent or guilty? Guilty Sinners are cast into God’s hellish Jail for all eternity. ~ But God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son to take the punishment for our Sin; the Just for the Unjust. Jesus died on a cross and shed his blood; he paid for our crime with his Life. But after being buried for three days he arose from the dead and was seen alive by 500 people. We are Saved by Grace through Faith in Jesus as our Lord and Savior, apart from trying to earn Eternal Life. Confess Jesus as Lord, Repent of your Sins, find a Bible believing Church; and keep opening the Bible. ~ Turn it's crank and it will be like music to your ears; and proof will leap out of it like a Jack in the Box. Don’t be found remaining in a stubborn refusal to believe…

Acts 1:3 KJV; To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:


Why do you want us to think outside the box?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This is an extension of a previous topic.

Theistic Agnosticism - The honesty to admit we don't know everything

This term came up this morning in a discussion over coffee. I thought it worth discussing further. Being raised in the church, I was held in a bubble of "we have all the answers." Now that I am an adult, I realize the reason for that. We DIDN'T have all the questions. I know, I know... (who...

www.christianityboard.com

As I have said often, "I was raised Protestant evangelical." --- A closed system.
Which had an odd antithetical twist. You can't DO evangelism without talking to the "lost". (those outside the closed system)
And only mature evangelicals were even allowed to do it, for fear you might be talked out of the system.

Evangelism was a "required" activity that involved talking AT the "lost", not talking WITH the "lost".
People became projects. And if the "project" seemed like a waste of time,
you could "shake the dust off your feet" and absolve yourself of any responsibility toward them.
(their blood not being on your hands)

In preparation for talking at the "lost" projects, we were armed with Christian Apologetics. (counter-arguments)
You were bound to encounter resistance to the "message" from the closed system.
The "success" of the evangelist depended on the strength of their counter-arguments.

Much more to say about this. Everyone and everything outside the closed system was held in suspicion.
Which required negative opinions about all of those things, so as to assure keeping a safe distance.

I was wondering, how many others have had similar experiences with church, or Christianity in general?

Or...

Thoughts from those who would defend Christianity, or a church, as a closed system. Seeing value in it.

It is sad you grew up in such a formalistic style of Christianity.

The Samaritan woman at the well in John 4 was an evangelist and her relationship with Jesus was about 1 hour long!

 

[St. SteVen]

It is sad you grew up in such a formalistic style of Christianity.
The Samaritan woman at the well in John 4 was an evangelist and her relationship with Jesus was about 1 hour long!

Yes. I consider myself to be a recovering evangelical. (not evangelist)

Most every style of Christianity is "formalistic". Why do you label evangelicalism?
(and there certainly are other choices that are far more formalistic)

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[Ronald Nolette]

Yes. I consider myself to be a recovering evangelical. (not evangelist)

Most every style of Christianity is "formalistic". Why do you label evangelicalism?
(and there certainly are other choices that are far more formalistic)

[

Simply because that is what you said you grew up in and it sounds very formalistic.

I am glad in my 50+ years I have gone to churches that strived hard to be biblical and not attached to formulas and forms. I am currently in an SBC church and it is awesome! We believe in evangelism. While we will teach some methods to help a believer get rolling, we believe in getting to know the Lord, learn His Word and let the Spirit lead you to share the good news with the lost.