Christians and Jews are both anti Acts 2:38.

[Christ4Me]

He was created in the womb of Mary as a microscopic sperm cell to mate with Mary's egg, creating the BEGOTTEN son of God and biological son of Mary,

Anyone that denies this is of the RCC.

I do not see how, when the RCC would acknowledge that too.

Jesus Christ had existed before His incarnation.

Jesus Is Jehovah

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made..... 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.... 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[Scott Downey]

[QUOTE="Truther, post: 1223298, member: 8451"]He was created in the womb of Mary as a microscopic sperm cell to mate with Mary's egg, creating the BEGOTTEN son of God and biological son of Mary,

Anyone that denies this is of the RCC.[/QUOTE]
Your an anti-trinitarian then?

Perhaps a kind of adoptionism heresy. No doubts Christ was born into the human race taking on flesh. The incarnation means God taking on flesh being born as a baby.
Adoptionism
...taught that Jesus was born totally human and only later was “adopted” – either at his baptism or at his resurrection – by God in a special (i.e. divine) way. Trinitarian Heresies | Monergism.

 

[Scott Downey]

What Is the Incarnation?

The incarnation refers literally to the in-fleshing of the eternal Son of God — Jesus “putting on our flesh and blood” and becoming fully human. The doctrine of the incarnation claims that the eternal second person of the Trinity took on humanity in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. A helpful way to remember the key aspects of the incarnation is the summary statement of John 1:14: “The Word became flesh.”[/QUOTE]

 

[Christ4Me]

No. It does NOT oppose the above. It’s just meant to emphasize the fact that, even though no one can be saved without repenting AND receiving the Holy Ghost, water baptism IS just as essential, too. However, the thing about water baptism is, it can take place either before OR after receiving the Holy Ghost .. AND receiving the Holy Ghost can take place before OR after water baptism.

Granted, at Cornelius’ house, in Acts Chapter 10, the hearing, believing, obeying and the infilling of the Holy Ghost all took place during that one meeting. And, **IF** water baptism was NOT an essential part of the salvation plan of the New Covenant, as you assert, Peter would have had absolutely no need whatsoever to COMMAND water baptism in Acts 10:48, as he did. Furthermore, to assert water baptism was just a ritual for new disciples, is unscriptural. John the Baptist’s baptism was "unto repentance" .. and repentance is indeed the FIRST step after one has heard AND believed the gospel message of the New Covenant. Jesus Name baptism is for the remission of sins.

That’s what I was trying to point out. I suppose, you just misunderstood me. But no problem, here.

Water baptism cannot be essential when one is born again of the Spirit by believing in Him & thus gets saved before water baptism.

Therefore water baptism is not essential for salvation. Water baptism is essential for being His disciples as a public witness of their conversion after they are believers in Jesus Christ & thus born again of the Spirit.

my friend, I’ll be happy to go over John Chapter 3 with you, and what Jesus said about, how it is known when everybody is born of the Spirit, later. However, it takes MORE than merely believing to receive the Holy Ghost "the Bible way", as you assert. One can hear AND even “believe” the Gospel Message of the New Covenant, and still NOT “obey” the Gospel Message of the New Covenant. Therefore, “Obedience” is the KEY, once one has BOTH heard AND believed that Message.

Acts 2:38 (KJV)
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the unbelieving Jews that took part of crucifying Jesus on the cross in unbelief, repenting from unbelief is done by believing in Him is how they had received the remission of sins which is what Peter plainly stated to the Gentiles in Acts 10:43-44

I agree with you, that one MUST believe AND repent to receive the Holy Ghost .. because God isn’t going to dwell in an unclean temple. However, to assert water baptism was NOT an essential part of the salvation plan must be an oversight, on your part.

Peter was sent there to tell them what they MUST do to be saved. AND HE DID.

Acts Chapter 10 (KJV)
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then
prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Again, Peter acknowledged that they were born again of the Spirit and thus saved and so water baptism wasn't the cause for their remission of sins for why they had received the gift of the Holy Ghost when believing in Him was.

Acts 11:14 (KJV)
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

That is your reference about words for how thou and thy house shall be saved. In context; Peter is recounting the event of Acts 10th chapter in Acts 11 and the importance of this salvation by believing in Him is here;

Acts 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

So it was by the Gentiles hearing those words that by believing in Him is for the remission of sins was how they were born again.

 

[farouk]

Water baptism cannot be essential when one is born again of the Spirit by believing in Him & thus gets saved before water baptism.

Therefore water baptism is not essential for salvation. Water baptism is essential for being His disciples as a public witness of their conversion after they are believers in Jesus Christ & thus born again of the Spirit.



Acts 2:38 (KJV)
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the unbelieving Jews that took part of crucifying Jesus on the cross in unbelief, repenting from unbelief is done by believing in Him is how they had received the remission of sins which is what Peter plainly stated to the Gentiles in Acts 10:43-44



Again, Peter acknowledged that they were born again of the Spirit and thus saved and so water baptism wasn't the cause for their remission of sins for why they had received the gift of the Holy Ghost when believing in Him was.

Acts 11:14 (KJV)
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

That is your reference about words for how thou and thy house shall be saved. In context; Peter is recounting the event of Acts 10th chapter in Acts 11 and the importance of this salvation by believing in Him is here;

Acts 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

So it was by the Gentiles hearing those words that by believing in Him is for the remission of sins was how they were born again.

Interesting also that Acts 2.41 says that 'they that gladly believed were baptized'. They were believers already when they were baptized. They were not baptized supposedly in order to become, or try to become, believers.

 

[Christ4Me]

you should be very cautious about making an assertion (unequivocally) like that. It is true they all beheld miracles. But Phillip didn’t go there to put on a dog and pony show. And for you (or anyone) to throw everyone into the same category as Simon, the sorcerer, in my opinion, is a grave mistake.

John 8:12 (KJV)
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Do note the bold words in that verse as I say what the Bible says below;

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Therefore they were not saved yet and that water baptism had nothing to do with the remission of sins because they were not coming to & believing in Jesus Christ but coming to Philip in believing the things he was preaching about.

It was written that they had not received the Holy Spirit yet and so discernment is needed for why IF water baptism was for the remission of sins as you say. These people had regarded Simon in infamy for he was the one afflicting them with unclean spirits. Then you have Philip come into the scene where the fanfare switched to the positive because seemingly Philip was undoing Simon's work and doing other miracles too, but it was fanfare all the same for why they were following Philip to see the miracles as Simon did too.

The people's sights & Simon's sight was on Philip in doing those things and not the Lord because they saw & credited Simon for doing those supernatural things. So from the infamous Simon to the now famous Philip, I believe that was what was happening when they got water baptized by Philip in Jesus's name and yet have not received the remission of sins because then where is the gift of the Holy Ghost as a result?

the people in Samaria, in Acts Chapter 8 believed Phillip’s preaching about Jesus AND they got baptized. Everyone, except Simon the sorcerer, later received the Holy Ghost. Therefore, I disagree with your position that the believers in Samaria were saved BEFORE they received the Holy Ghost. Instead, I assert it takes it all .. hearing, believing, obeying, water baptism “the Bible way” AND receiving the Holy Ghost “the Bible way”. And, even then, that’s just the BEGINNING. There’s still the matter of going from milk to meat, maturing, witnessing, being pro-active, developing and using our spiritual gifts, being about our Heavenly Father’s business, making our calling and election sure, and enduring to the end.

Simon's mindset is a clue for discernment to the people's mindset in the area for why they were following Philip. When peter & john came down, Simon was still in that mindset into thinking he could buy that power of laying on of hands to give the Holy Ghost & even they had to lift Simon's sights higher to the Lord also since they were not really giving the Holy Ghost themselves by the laying on of their hands.

Salvation is by not coming to Peter nor John nor to Philip but coming to & believing in Jesus Christ for salvation. They were not hearing His words through them to come to Him in belief but coming to them in seeing miracles for the real reason they were following thejm around.

 

[Christ4Me]

We don’t know what all Phillip told the Ethiopian eunuch, that resulted in (when he saw a water hole), him saying “what doeth hinder me to be baptized”.

What we do know was his pertinent question for why he was asking for water baptism.

Acts 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Likewise, we don’t know what all Paul told the twelve disciples of John the Baptist. But we do know Paul preached the same (uniform) gospel as Peter, and the rest. AND we do know they got “re-baptized” (but in the name of Jesus) the second time, and they received the Holy Ghost “the Bible way”.

Paul told them that Jesus was the One John the Baptist was talking about for why that was enough for them to believe in Him & got converted from being John the Baptist's disciples to disciples of Jesus Christ for when they got saved.

By the way, the Pharisees were NOT disciples of John the Baptist. NOT did they get baptized by John the Baptist. So, that’s another point that we all need to careful about, not to misrepresent, and make an assertion that takes a contrary position.

I never said that the disciples of the Pharisees were disciples of John the Baptist's but if any of them converted from being a disciple of the Pharisees to his water baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, they become disciples of John the Baptist's as a public witness of their conversion.

Since John the Baptist baptizes by water, the One coming was to baptize by the Holy Ghost and so the 2 has to be different for how the remission of sins come about since the baptism with the Holy Ghost as in born again of the Spirit can only come by believing in Him for the remission of sins.

your position may be “not really”. But what you failed to Scripturally refute OR dismantle (above), IS Biblical precedence, complete with Book, Chapter and Verse, that documents the Apostles Doctrine of the “original” (First Century Jerusalem) New Testament Church.

Well, I leave the increase to God to help you see the truth in His words. God is consistent in saving people who call upon His name to be saved as well as those who believe in Him for eternal life as scripture plainly says.

What is not consistent is people being saved by water baptism. Therefore water baptism is not essential for salvation but for saved believers to do when taking the first steps in following Him in being His disciples.

 

[Christ4Me]

Mark 16:16 the unbeliever "shall be condemned". The unbeliever is one who has not been baptized, so here is not being baptized = condemned.

Jesus NEVER said belief alone saves. The man made idea that belief alone saves CONTRADICTS Luke 13:3; Matthew 10:32-33; Mark 16:16. Cherry picking out just the verses that require believing while purposely ignoring verses that require repentance, confession and baptism does not make for correct theology.

It did not say a believer not water baptized is condemned but an unbeliever is condemned. Therefore salvation is by believing and it is the baptism with the Holy Ghost performed by God for believing in Him is how one is born again of the Spirit.

 

[Christ4Me]

Interesting also that Acts 2.41 says that 'they that gladly believed were baptized'. They were believers already when they were baptized. They were not baptized supposedly in order to become, or try to become, believers.

Thanks for sharing and confirming the word for how the Jews had really received the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost.

@Ernest T. Bass @BGR @Truther

 

[BGR]

Water baptism cannot be essential when one is born again of the Spirit by believing in Him & thus gets saved before water baptism.

Therefore water baptism is not essential for salvation. Water baptism is essential for being His disciples as a public witness of their conversion after they are believers in Jesus Christ & thus born again of the Spirit.

Water is absolutely an essential part of the New Covenant Plan of Salvation. Otherwise, Jesus would NOT have commanded in Matthew 28:19 to ..
1). Go,
2). Teach AND
3). Baptize.

**IF** a person could enter Heaven, without water baptism, Jesus would have just said, Go and Teach.

I think you and I agree that one MUST hear, believe, AND obey the New Covenant Plan of Salvation. And as I’ve already pointed out, there is very definitely Biblical precedent which proves that one can receive the Holy Ghost BOTH before AND after water baptism.

Blood AND water were essential under Levitical Law Ceremony for the Atonement for sins. And, I assert blood and water were also essential in the New Covenant Plan of Salvation, just as sure as blood and water gushed from Jesus’ side.

For the unbelieving Jews that took part of crucifying Jesus on the cross in unbelief, repenting from unbelief is done by believing in Him is how they had received the remission of sins which is what Peter plainly stated to the Gentiles in Acts 10:43-44

The unbelieving Jews were told in Acts 2:38 to
1). Repent and
2). Be baptized in the name of Jesus FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS
(that they were to repent of)

Now, it might be argued that the word “for” there is “because of” but the bottom line is, they were very definitely told to be baptized. And in Acts Chapter 10, Peter even COMMANDED those who had ALREADY received the Holy Ghost to be baptized. So, you are barking up the wrong tree, to say baptism isn’t essential for salvation.

Jesus was baptized. He COMMANDED baptism. Peter preached and COMMANDED baptism. The Apostle Paul preached baptism.

Acts 22:16 (KJV)
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Soooo, this Bible student is going with the preponderance of Scriptural evidence, and continue teaching water baptism is an essential part of the New Covenant Plan of Salvation .. **IF** one plans to make Heaven their Eternal Home.

Again, Peter acknowledged that they were born again of the Spirit and thus saved and so water baptism wasn't the cause for their remission of sins for why they had received the gift of the Holy Ghost when believing in Him was.

**IF** water baptism had not been essential in the New Covenant Plan of Salvation, Peter would NOT have COMMANDED it, at this point .. with people already filled with the Holy Ghost.

Acts 11:14 (KJV)
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

That is your reference about words for how thou and thy house shall be saved. In context; Peter is recounting the event of Acts 10th chapter in Acts 11 and the importance of this salvation by believing in Him is here;

Acts 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

So it was by the Gentiles hearing those words that by believing in Him is for the remission of sins was how they were born again.

Cornelius was told what he needed to do in order to be saved. Since God chose the foolishness of preaching (NOT foolish preaching) to save the lost, Cornelius was instructed to send for a man (by name ~Peter), and was even told where he’d find Peter, who would come there tell him what he needed to do to be saved. He did. And Peter came and told him, as documented. And in that one service Cornelius AND his household received Biblical Salvation under the New Covenant .. which included water baptism.

 

[BGR]

John 8:12 (KJV)
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Do note the bold words in that verse as I say what the Bible says below;

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Therefore they were not saved yet and that water baptism had nothing to do with the remission of sins because they were not coming to & believing in Jesus Christ but coming to Philip in believing the things he was preaching about.

It was written that they had not received the Holy Spirit yet and so discernment is needed for why IF water baptism was for the remission of sins as you say. These people had regarded Simon in infamy for he was the one afflicting them with unclean spirits. Then you have Philip come into the scene where the fanfare switched to the positive because seemingly Philip was undoing Simon's work and doing other miracles too, but it was fanfare all the same for why they were following Philip to see the miracles as Simon did too.

The people's sights & Simon's sight was on Philip in doing those things and not the Lord because they saw & credited Simon for doing those supernatural things. So from the infamous Simon to the now famous Philip, I believe that was what was happening when they got water baptized by Philip in Jesus's name and yet have not received the remission of sins because then where is the gift of the Holy Ghost as a result?

Even **IF** one agrees with your assertion (which I do NOT), water baptism was still an essential part of the New Covenant Plan of Salvation here in Acts Chapter 8, as the Bible clearly says they were baptized BEFORE Peter and John got down there.

I guess, according to you, Phillip was just a buffoon and all these people didn’t know if they were afoot or horse back .. and as for baptism, they had all just got wet, and that’s it. WHEW! You said .. “, I believe that was what was happening when they got water baptized by Philip in Jesus's name and yet have not received the remission of sins because then where is the gift of the Holy Ghost as a result?” What else could you say? This turns your theory up side down. You’ve got to try to explain it away. May God have mercy on you and those you influence. I hope and pray you stop kicking against the pricks, and get with the Apostles (verbatim) Doctrine .. “FOR the remission of sins”.

Simon's mindset is a clue for discernment to the people's mindset in the area for why they were following Philip. When peter & john came down, Simon was still in that mindset into thinking he could buy that power of laying on of hands to give the Holy Ghost & even they had to lift Simon's sights higher to the Lord also since they were not really giving the Holy Ghost themselves by the laying on of their hands.

Salvation is by not coming to Peter nor John nor to Philip but coming to & believing in Jesus Christ for salvation. They were not hearing His words through them to come to Him in belief but coming to them in seeing miracles for the real reason they were following thejm around.

The Bible is pretty clear about what happened in Samaria, in Acts Chapter 8. And I believe most people can read, and understand, what is said .. without splitting frog hairs, and all the mental gymnastics. Phillip went and preached the gospel to them. A sizable number of people believed and were baptized. And they received the Holy Ghost .. except for the con-man. You said, “They were not hearing His words through them to come to Him in belief but coming to them in seeing miracles for the real reason they were following thejm around.” That my friend is like a VERY dangerous game of Russian Roulette. I don’t deny God was using Phillip in such a way. But you seem to have a habit of making unsubstantiated opinionated statements like that. However, I perceive it has more to do with trying to make the Bible conform to your preconceived ideas, than anything else. The down side is, you are influencing others to believe that junk, too. My advice to you is to repent, NOW!

 

[BGR]

What we do know was his pertinent question for why he was asking for water baptism.

Acts 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Phillip had to have mentioned water baptism being an essential part of the New Covenant Plan of Salvation, or the man would not have known to make such a request. Soooo, there again, we see water baptism being an essential part of the New Covenant Plan of Salvation.

Likewise, we don’t know what all Paul told the twelve disciples of John the Baptist. But we do know Paul preached the same (uniform) gospel as Peter, and the rest. AND we do know they got “re-baptized” (but in the name of Jesus) the second time, and they received the Holy Ghost “the Bible way”.

Paul told them that Jesus was the One John the Baptist was talking about for why that was enough for them to believe in Him & got converted from being John the Baptist's disciples to disciples of Jesus Christ for when they got saved.

Yet again, another example of water baptism being essential in the New Covenant Plan of Salvation. What are we up to now .. about 4? I’d say that enough of verbatim Scripture, to document “FOR the remission of sins”.

By the way, the Pharisees were NOT disciples of John the Baptist. NOT did they get baptized by John the Baptist. So, that’s another point that we all need to careful about, not to misrepresent, and make an assertion that takes a contrary position.

I never said that the disciples of the Pharisees were disciples of John the Baptist's but if any of them converted from being a disciple of the Pharisees to his water baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, they become disciples of John the Baptist's as a public witness of their conversion.

Since John the Baptist baptizes by water, the One coming was to baptize by the Holy Ghost and so the 2 has to be different for how the remission of sins come about since the baptism with the Holy Ghost as in born again of the Spirit can only come by believing in Him for the remission of sins.

Acts 19:1-7 reinforces water baptism in the name of Jesus as being essential in the New Covenant Plan of Salvation. And the bottom line is this: Twelve men heard, believed, and OBEYED the gospel message .. , and got water baptized in the name of Jesus, and received the Holy Ghost during that one meeting.

Well, I leave the increase to God to help you see the truth in His words. God is consistent in saving people who call upon His name to be saved as well as those who believe in Him for eternal life as scripture plainly says.

What is not consistent is people being saved by water baptism. Therefore water baptism is not essential for salvation but for saved believers to do when taking the first steps in following Him in being His disciples.

I have verbatim Scripture that water baptism is FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. And you just have an argument that water baptism is NOT essential to the New Covenant Plan of Salvation. Thank you .. but no thank you. This Bible student will stay with the preponderance of verbatim Scripture. Happy trails

 

[Christ4Me]

Water is absolutely an essential part of the New Covenant Plan of Salvation. Otherwise, Jesus would NOT have commanded in Matthew 28:19 to ..
1). Go,
2). Teach AND
3). Baptize.

**IF** a person could enter Heaven, without water baptism, Jesus would have just said, Go and Teach.

If you go over everything Peter said to the Jews and the Gentiles, you will see that only the gospel was preached and not every commandment Jesus taught them as His disciples. They are to get saved first and then teach them on what it means to follow him as His disciples. We do not see that teaching when preaching the gospel. That comes afterwards when they are saved and Jesus Christ in them to help them to follow Him as His disciples. That is what His disciples are to teach; how to follow Him as His disciples and it starts off getting water baptized in His name after salvation.

 

[Christ4Me]

Even **IF** one agrees with your assertion (which I do NOT), water baptism was still an essential part of the New Covenant Plan of Salvation here in Acts Chapter 8, as the Bible clearly says they were baptized BEFORE Peter and John got down there.

Water baptism ca never be essential for salvation when believing in Jesus Christ for the remission of sins is.

Water baptism is an ordinance for newly saved believers to follow as His disciples.

 

[Christ4Me]

Phillip had to have mentioned water baptism being an essential part of the New Covenant Plan of Salvation, or the man would not have known to make such a request. Soooo, there again, we see water baptism being an essential part of the New Covenant Plan of Salvation.

Philip made sure the eunuch was doing water baptism for the right reason since the Samaritans and Simon did it for the wrong reason earlier before in Acts 8th chapter. Philip had asked the eunuch this question;

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

So water baptism for the remission sins was not obtained by Simon and the Samaritans for the reason why did they not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, but this eunuch was asked point blank if he really believed in the Lord Jesus Christ & he said he did before he got water baptized.

As it is, as much as Luke reported the birth & growth of the early church at and since Pentecost, false teachings has been developed out of events from assumptions when one should read the epistles to see what is plainly taught. Paul defers from water baptism because believing the preaching the gospel is how we are saved.

1 Corinthians 1: 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.... 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

As it is, I do not believe the power of God in salvation is cut short by water baptism for any one that believes in Him.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

See how water baptism is not essential now?

 

[BGR]

If you go over everything Peter said to the Jews and the Gentiles, you will see that only the gospel was preached and not every commandment Jesus taught them as His disciples. They are to get saved first and then teach them on what it means to follow him as His disciples. We do not see that teaching when preaching the gospel. That comes afterwards when they are saved and Jesus Christ in them to help them to follow Him as His disciples. That is what His disciples are to teach; how to follow Him as His disciples and it starts off getting water baptized in His name after salvation.

I understand all about one receiving Biblical Salvation, and growing and learning .. going from milk to meat, and maturing. But that does NOT cancel out the fact that water baptism is very specifically mentioned in numerous places where people received Biblical Salvation, according to the New Covenant Plan of Salvation. Jesus traveled many miles to be baptized, when He had no sins to repent of. However, it was to “fulfill all righteousness” AND to set an example for you and me. He COMMANDED water baptism. On the Day of Pentecost, in Acts Chapter 2, a large number of people received Biblical Salvation, according to the New Covenant Plan of Salvation, which included water baptism FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. Peter COMMANDED water baptism, in Acts Chapter 10, to people who received Biblical Salvation, according to the New Covenant Plan of Salvation, which included water baptism. A sizable number of people in Samaria received Biblical Salvation, according to the New Covenant Plan of Salvation, which included water baptism. The Ethiopian eunuch was instructed, starting in the Book of Isaiah, by Phillip, in Acts Chapter 8. And he requested baptism when he saw a water hole. In Acts Chapter 16, a Philippian jailer and family received received Biblical Salvation, according to the New Covenant Plan of Salvation, which included water baptism. Twelve disciples of John the Baptist, in Acts Chapter 19, received Biblical
Salvation, according to the New Covenant Plan of Salvation, which included water baptism. And this was directed to the man who became the Apostle Paul ..

Acts 22:16 (KJV)
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Sooo, I’m going to stay with the preponderance of Scriptural evidence, that water baptism is essential in the New Covenant Plan of Salvation.

Also, I don’t know of anyone who believes or thinks a lost person (a nonbeliever) would benefit from being baptized. A repentant sinner?
Now, THAT’S a different story.

 

[BGR]

Water baptism ca never be essential for salvation when believing in Jesus Christ for the remission of sins is.

Water baptism is an ordinance for newly saved believers to follow as His disciples.

I have already presented a preponderance of verbatim Scriptural evidence that water baptism is essential to the New Covenant Plan of Salvation, and is FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS.

 

[BGR]

Philip made sure the eunuch was doing water baptism for the right reason since the Samaritans and Simon did it for the wrong reason earlier before in Acts 8th chapter. Philip had asked the eunuch this question;

Now, here’s where I’m going to call your hand. You have absolutely no Scriptural basis to condemn Phillip and ALL of the people in Samaria, in Acts Chapter 8, who believed Phillip’s preaching, and were baptized before receiving the Holy Ghost. In fact, what you just said sounds about as arrogant and Pharisaic as anything I’ve ever heard, coming from someone who claims to be walking in Truth. My advice to you is to REPENT, and ask God to forgive you for making that statement.

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

So water baptism for the remission sins was not obtained by Simon and the Samaritans for the reason why did they not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, but this eunuch was asked point blank if he really believed in the Lord Jesus Christ & he said he did before he got water baptized.

As it is, as much as Luke reported the birth & growth of the early church at and since Pentecost, false teachings has been developed out of events from assumptions when one should read the epistles to see what is plainly taught. Paul defers from water baptism because believing the preaching the gospel is how we are saved.

1 Corinthians 1: 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.... 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

As it is, I do not believe the power of God in salvation is cut short by water baptism for any one that believes in Him.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

See how water baptism is not essential now?

Do you honestly need to be reminded that everything from Romans to Jude was written to people who had already received Biblical Salvation according to the New Covenant Plan of Salvation, which included water baptism? You need to repent, sit down a while, pray and be taught sound doctrine. The road you’re on now is going to have a bad end. And you sins will find you out.

 

[Christ4Me]

I understand all about one receiving Biblical Salvation, and growing and learning .. going from milk to meat, and maturing. But that does NOT cancel out the fact that water baptism is very specifically mentioned in numerous places where people received Biblical Salvation, according to the New Covenant Plan of Salvation. Jesus traveled many miles to be baptized, when He had no sins to repent of. However, it was to “fulfill all righteousness” AND to set an example for you and me.

Kind of a self defeating argument because He had no sins to be water baptized for the remission of sins. The reason Jesus aid that to fulfill all righteousness is what had happened afterwards in fulfilling this prophesy in Isaiah for when the Father spoke from Heaven & the Holy Spirit added His witness to the Son as God in sending Him to teach that He is the way the truth and the life for those who seek to be saved by Him as their Redeemer.

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

He COMMANDED water baptism.

John 4:1When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, 2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

If you ever wonder why He never had water baptized any one, it is more than likely to stay true to His words in prophecy.

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

So there is a difference between what His disciples were commanded to do in making disciples out of newly saved believers than what God does in baptizing all who believe in Him to be born again of the Spirit and thus saved.

On the Day of Pentecost, in Acts Chapter 2, a large number of people received Biblical Salvation, according to the New Covenant Plan of Salvation, which included water baptism FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. Peter COMMANDED water baptism, in Acts Chapter 10, to people who received Biblical Salvation, according to the New Covenant Plan of Salvation, which included water baptism. A sizable number of people in Samaria received Biblical Salvation, according to the New Covenant Plan of Salvation, which included water baptism. The Ethiopian eunuch was instructed, starting in the Book of Isaiah, by Phillip, in Acts Chapter 8. And he requested baptism when he saw a water hole. In Acts Chapter 16, a Philippian jailer and family received received Biblical Salvation, according to the New Covenant Plan of Salvation, which included water baptism. Twelve disciples of John the Baptist, in Acts Chapter 19, received Biblical
Salvation, according to the New Covenant Plan of Salvation, which included water baptism. And this was directed to the man who became the Apostle Paul ..

It is unfortunate that Acts 2:38 had interjected water baptis in there mking you think that is how the remission of sins came about for the gift of the holy Spirit to come but clearly it wasn't when this same Peter never mentioned water baptism to the Gentiles for how Peter had said how the remission of sins was received and that was by believing in Him, and they had received the gift of the Holy Ghost & got saved before water baptism.

Acts 22:16 (KJV)
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

In the above reference, the washing away of the sins was done by calling on the name of the Lord, not by water baptism.

Sooo, I’m going to stay with the preponderance of Scriptural evidence, that water baptism is essential in the New Covenant Plan of Salvation.

Well I would have to say the preponderous of Scriptural evidence is believing in Jesus Christ, the preaching of the cross is how we are saved for why Paul was not sent to baptize but preach the gospel. Dance around it all you like, but you are only reading water baptism into the scripture as the means for the remission of sins when it is not but believing in Him, calling on the name of the Lord to be saved, is.

The Catholic Church wants to push that false teaching because that is how they can claim salvation can only be obtained within the Catholic Church. You have Jesuits trained to infiltrate the churches to bring Protestant back into the fold. Lutherans in the UK are apologizing to the catholic Church for ever leaving it. They can be influencing commentaries and your teachers in Christian Colleges & Universities as that is their agenda as well as sowing discord among Protestant circles.

Dare say they were behind the ecumenical creeds as gathering grapes of thorns & figs of thistles in an attempt to bring all the churches under Catholic rule. Even introducing false teaching not supported in scripture about worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son when the only way to come to God the Father in worship is by the only way of the Son ( John 14:6 ) and the only way to honor the father is by only honoring the Son in worship which is exactly what the Holy Spirit has been sent to do through us in ministry ( John 15:26-27 ) & in worship ( john 16:14 )

So if water baptism was essential, Jesus would be saying it every time but instead, we find believing in Him is how one is born again of the Spirit. His hand is not shortened as Savior because He can save any one that calls on Him to be saved.

Also, I don’t know of anyone who believes or thinks a lost person (a nonbeliever) would benefit from being baptized. A repentant sinner?
Now, THAT’S a different story.

That was what John the Baptist's water baptism was about.

Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Don't you believe that God's baptism with the Holy Ghost has to be gained differently than by John the Baptist's water baptism of repentance for the remission of sins? It is. For then why would any of John the Baptist's disciples seek another baptism under Jesus's name in Acts 19:1-7? If they had already received the remission of sins by John the Baptist's water baptism, then why again under Jesus's name?

Because it is by believing in Him, calling on His name to be saved, is how one receives the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost

That is what the preponderous of the scriptures testify of about the Good News to man whereas your claim of water baptism for the remission of sins is only read into it and there isn't that many.

 

[Christ4Me]

I have already presented a preponderance of verbatim Scriptural evidence that water baptism is essential to the New Covenant Plan of Salvation, and is FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS.

Let's look a one right now;

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

That is baptism with the Holy Ghost hat automatically happens when someone believes in Jesus Christ. it is the one that does not believe is how they are damned. It did not say those who believe and did not get water baptism are still not saved yet. Doubt it? Rea what Jesus said here.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

No water baptism there. And this was in conclusion on how one is born again of the Spirit.

Again; how water baptism is read into scripture when it is not there.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

That is about baptism with the Holy Ghost done by God also because Peter deferred from water baptism which is used for putting away the filth of the flesh and instead declared that it was the answer of a good conscience to God by believing in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

But those who advocate for water baptism for the remission of sins will only see water baptism in those references whereas there are MORE scripture that hardly shows any reference to water baptism about how we are saved in letters to the churches as well as the four gospels.

So do you believe that God's hand is shortened unless there is water around for water baptism? If a guy lay dying and he asks you what he needs to be saved, and you see no water around, do you let him die without preaching the gospel to him?

You better not. If you cannot see the absurdity of water baptism being essential for salvation for the remission of sins, then I'll pray for you but I can say God is the Savior because Jesus Christ saves all those who believe in Him and they are saved for having believed in Him.

There is only going on to perfection as His disciple, starting off with water baptism and then looking to Him daily to help us lay aside every weight & sin in running that race for the high prize of our calling to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House which is the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus, but you can only be in that race running it as a saved believer.

Those who run that race to obtain salvation are denying they are saved and denying Him as their Savior for why He will deny them when He comes as the Bridegroom,, but even though left behind to die, their spirits will be with the Lord to wait for their resurrection after the great tribulation as they will become damned as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth, in testifying to the power of God in salvation for all those who believe in Him, even in His name.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

If water baptism was essential, then it would be considered as born of the will of the flesh and of the will of man & not just of God.