Paul deferred from water baptism for a reason and he said so because God saves those who believe in the preaching of the cross.
I see this as applying to the baptism with the Holy Ghost when we came to & believed in Jesus Christ.
Christians and Jews are both anti Acts 2:38.
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Paul deferred from water baptism for a reason and he said so because God saves those who believe in the preaching of the cross.
I see this as applying to the baptism with the Holy Ghost when we came to & believed in Jesus Christ.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Psalms 119:172
My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.
Since all of God's commands are righteousness, then obeying God's commands is doing righteousness, not obeying His commands is doing unrighteousness. You are making up this mystical stuff out of thin air.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
2 Thessalonians 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
The gospel is to be OBEYED, obeying is doing a "thing" and not doing this "thing" puts one in flaming fire.
For one to obey the gospel of Christ, one must first know what the gospel is.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Paul said the gospel he preached was the death burial and resurrection of Christ.
To be saved/not be in flaming fire one must obey the gospel, the gospel being the death burial and resurrection of Christ as preached by Paul. So how does one obey the historical events of Christ's death burial and resurrection of Christ?
Romans 6:3-6 when one is water baptized the old man of sin DIES, one is BURIED in a watery grave and one is then "RAISED UP FROM" that watery grave to walk in newness of life (born again). Therefore water baptism is HOW one goes about obeying the gospel for there is a death burial and resurrection that takes place in water baptism. There is no death burial resurrection in saying a sinner's prayer or in faith only or in any kind of 'spirit baptism'. Obeying the gospel therefore is not just mentally acknowledging certain facts about Christ and nothing more...but is about DOING a 'thing'.
When you fail to recognize how we had obtained His righteousness apart from the law, the righteousness of God by faith in Jesus Christ, then you fail to see why we are guiltless for profaning the sabbath because Jesus's righteousness in us is Lord of the sabbath in making us able to stand.
You are saved by His righteousness apart from the law for why the keeping of the sabbath is no longer required to do for your salvation.
Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
We are no longer seeking to keep the sabbath day each week to be justified before God, because we are justified by faith in Jesus Christ.
We have His commandments for abiding in Him which are higher than the works of the law as He will help us to do them, but keeping the sabbath is a sign for the Jews as God's chosen people but keeping the faith in Jesus Christ is the sign for God's chosen people now & not keeping the sabbath day.
It will take a miracle from God to help you see the truth in His words. Praying for you. I hope others will join me in this too when reading this.
Finish the remission of sins part....
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord...
...you know, commanded.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.LOL! No, it looks like you still don't get it. And now you're putting words in my mouth, which is never a good thing to do...Peter's reply in verse 38 is most certainly not a mere suggestion. But that doesn't make it a command.
Well, there's no other response to having been saved. You know, since salvation is of the Lord. This is how, as I said before, repeating the words of Peter from 2 Peter 1, we make our calling and election sure, or how we affirm it, both to others and to ourselves, and respond to it... on an ongoing basis. It is God's work in us, the fruit of the Spirit. Here's what's happening there in Acts 2, Truther:
The folks Peter is preaching to have heard his sermon and are now asking him, "Since God has done this for us, what should we do in response to Him?" And Peter, in response, says, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Affirm what He has done for you ~ make your calling and election sure ~ publicly, to and for yourself and others, and give Him glory and honor and blessing and praise (and thanks, of course) for it. This is the only proper response."
Hey, in Acts 2:40, the Holy Spirit affirms exactly what I'm saying to you by saying, through Luke, "And with many other words (Peter) bore witness and continued to exhort them..."
Grace and peace to you. Especially grace, since in what I'm getting from you in this "conversation" there seems to be a dearth of it. But yeah, grace and peace to you.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.....
Was water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ a command here?
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Cause & effect for the Gentiles in being born again of the Spirit has to be the same for the Jews for salvation.
I shall apply Matthew 28:19-20 & another poster's reply here.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
You are only confirming what water baptism is for; discipleship, not salvation.
The great commission is about discipleship, not about salvation. Believing the gospel of Jesus Christ is how we are born again & saved.
The great commission given to His disciples is to make disciples out of newly saved believers and it starts with water baptism. Then His disciples are to teach them everything Jesus has taught them. That is all part of the great commission to His disciples; not to newly saved believers, because it is on His disciples to water baptized newly saved believers in His name and then to teach the newly saved believers everything Jesus has taught them.
Who said anything about unrighteousness?
Baptism is a rite, circumcision is a rite. The law is spiritual and the words of Christ are spiritual. Mystical simply means allegorically spiritual: why do you imagine the scripture tells us that the circumcision by human hands is ineffective but the one by God's hand is? But you think the baptism by a man's hand saves you?
Peter remembered that Christ baptized no one with water, but by spirit.
You're taking it out of Peter's own context in saying that, Truther. Take a look at (particularly) verse 47, and then read the verse immediately following (48). You probably still will not see how that refutes your narrative, but so be it. To explain, Peter was basically rebuking those who still were of the mindset that Gentiles were not to be baptized ~ that they were not or could not be part of Israel ~ that baptism was only for ethnic Jews. So he's saying that Gentiles are just as eligible as ethnic Jews to be baptized in the name of the Lord. And he's saying that Gentiles, just like ethnic Jews, are exhorted to "make their calling and election sure" as Peter later says in 2 Peter 1.
Grace and peace to you.
There you are, still stuck in one gear.
You turn this...
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Into this...
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of
You have to ask yourself why Jesus said that next verse.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
I had believed because of verse 6 that He was referring to normal birth for when the water breaks and a Jew is born into the nation of Israe, because that was how it used to be for entering the Kingdom of God or by the will of man in joining into Judaism.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
But someone shared a reference to an O.T. scripture about water sprinkling as done by God along with giving heathen the Holy Ghost.
Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
This is something God will do as prophesied in the O.T. in regards to the New Covenant.
Then we have this confirmation in the N.T. that it is not done by water baptism by His disciples but by God the moment we believe in Him.
Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
So if you consider water baptism a work of righteousness for which we are to do to obtain salvation by, then you should repent by the scriptures.
God has saved us by believing in Him. Not God & us by water baptism.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
my point was that all God's commandments are righteousness. Therefore obeying God's commands is called doing righteousness, not mysticism.
since God commanded men to be water baptized then submitting to baptism is doing righteousness.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Neither Jew (Acts 1) or Gentile (Acts 10) were command to believe only nor taught belief only saves so belief only is not the "like manner way" (Acts 15:11) Jew and Gentile are saved. Both Jew and Gentile were commanded water baptism for the remission of sins.
Mt 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
--Jesus taught/commanded water baptism
--therefore water baptism is to be taught/commanded for it is how new disciples are made
--the newly made disciples therefore are to go forth teaching/commanding water baptism 'observing' what Christ taught/commanded
--this means water baptism is to be taught/commanded till the end of the world for this is how Christianity would be perpetuated through time till the end of the world.
--no where is 'spirit baptism' commanded, never said to make one a disciple, never said to last till the end of time
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Rom 3:19-22 'the law' here refers to the OT law of Moses not Christ's NT law. In Romans chpts 1 and 2 Paul had proved that Gentile and Jew have sinned therefore are sinners. Sinners are need of justification. Paul spends the first part of Rom 3 telling us the OT law cannot justify. Therefore Jew nor Gentile can be justified, made righteous by the OT law of Moses for that law required strict law keeping in keeping ALL the law perfectly, flawlessly. Yet no Jew could do that so one is justified by faith apart from deeds of that OT law.
v21 now the righteousness of God without the law
v22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ
righteousness is not by perfect, flawless law keeping v21 but by faith v22
Therefore keeping the OT law (circumcision, Sabbath keeping, purifications, animal sacrifices, etc) do not justify but faith in obeying Christ's NT gospel does justify..."Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" one must conditionally be IN CHRIST to be justified and redeemed and being IN CHRIST requires obedience to NT gospel by being water baptized (Galatians 3:27).
'Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith' Paul said justified by FAITH, he sis not say justified by faith only.
Luther butchered, perverted God's word by ADDING his erroneous bias to it:
"So halten wir nun dafür, dass der Mensch gerecht werde ohne des Gesetzes Werke, allein durch den Glauben" (Literally: "We therefore conclude that a man is justified without the works of the law, only through faith").
Faith only NEVER put anyone IN CHRIST but an obedient faith that includes obedience to God's will in being baptized into Christ. Gal 3:27
The only obedience requires from us is to believe in Him.
John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
If water baptism was essential to salvation, would not Jesus have said it then? You bet, but He did not and so only believing in Him is how one receives the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost thus saved when they are born again of the Spirit.
Just before Jesus ascended into heaven He commanded His disciples to go into all the world, to preach the gospel, to make disciples, and to baptize them. He expected all believers to be baptized, and He promised salvation to those who believed and were baptized (Mark 16:16). The Pharisees "rejected the counsel of God" by refusing John's baptism, and we will be guilty of the same if we refuse...
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
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I did not take it out of context but merely posted it.
You rejected verses 44 and onward, especially the part where Peter COMMANDS them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
I guarantee that your group refuses to command such on converts.(not even minor a suggestion)
Actually, you are not hitting the brakes for what Peter plainly stated for how Gentiles were to receive the remission of sins by believing in Jesus Christ.
Peter did not say again for them to be water baptized for the remission of sins to get the free gift of the Holy Ghost, but believing in Him was how the Gentiles had gotten that remission of sins and proof of that confirmation from God was how they were born again of the Spirit.
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