Christians and marriage

[Buzzfruit]

St. Paul NEVER said not to marry unbelievers. That is only YOU saying it. And why should we listen to you? .

So where did he say they can? You know, it’s no wonder most Christian relationships show little difference from those in the world......the divorce rate is pretty much the same as those in the world. Christians divorcing is even higher then atheist and agnostic.....what does that tell you? We claim we want to have a successful marriage but we go out and get ourselves involve with people that do not share what we claim to believe in.....we are shooting for the lowest common denominator. Its no wander why God told the house of Israel that they were destroyed because of a lack of understanding. He might as well have been talking to us.

 

[Selene]

So where did he say they can? You know, it’s no wonder most Christian relationships show little difference from those in the world......the divorce rate is pretty much the same as those in the world. We claim we want to have a successful marriage but we go out and get ourselves involve with people that do not share what we claim to believe in.....we are shooting for the lowest common denominator. Its no wander why God told the house of Israel that they were destroyed because of a lack of understanding. He might as well have been talking to us.

The fact that St. Paul never condemned the marriage of those Christians married to pagans says it all. It is not you nor I who should decide what person someone should marry.

A person who wants a successful marriage would always put God first in their marriage like my Aunt did. Her husband was not a Christian, but slowly he became one because my aunt always put God first in her marriage. For example, in every family meal, she would always say grace and thank God for the food before they ate. She would do this even when they dine out in a restaurant. She was never ashamed of saying grace in a restaurant full of people. How many Christians do you know would even take the time to say grace before every meal even when they dine out in a restaurant? And these are just simple things. When my aunt wakes up in the morning, she says a prayer thanking and praising God and asking Him to bless her husband and their marriage. When evening comes and it's time to sleep, she says another prayer praising the Lord and again asking the Lord to bless her husband and their marriage, and her husband is there all the time listening to her. So naturally, he converted to Christianity.

 

[Buzzfruit]

The fact that St. Paul never condemned the marriage of those Christians married to pagans says it all. It is not you nor I who should decide what person someone should marry.

Why would he condemn them for something that they did before they were converted. It was not his intention to break up their marriage, but he did say that they were bound to an unbeliever if they leave. However, he does say that two Christians that are married to each other that if they divorce they should remain single or go back to the one they were married to. Why is that? Why make a distinction like? And you believe that an unbeliever would share the same values as a Christian? Do you believe that an unbelieving wife would submit and obey her Christian husband?

A person who wants a successful marriage would always put God first in their marriage like my Aunt did. Her husband was not a Christian, but slowly he became one because my aunt always put God first in her marriage. For example, in every family meal, she would always say grace and thank God for the food before they ate. She would do this even when they dine out in a restaurant. She was never ashamed of saying grace in a restaurant full of people. How many Christians do you know would even take the time to say grace before every meal even when they dine out in a restaurant? And these are just simple things. When my aunt wakes up in the morning, she says a prayer thanking and praising God and asking Him to bless her husband and their marriage. When evening comes and it's time to sleep, she says another prayer praising the Lord and again asking the Lord to bless her husband and their marriage, and her husband is there all the time listening to her. So naturally, he converted to Christianity.

And you believe that a Christian that is goes out and get married to an unbeliever that the marriage has the same chance of success as when two Christians are married? Would a unbelieving wife be willing to obey and submit to her Christian husband? And how many do you know that does that? The example you gave does not mean that everyone else will have the same experience.

 

[Selene]

[/font][/font][/size][/font]

Why would he condemn them for something that they did before they were converted. It was not his intention to break up their marriage, but he did say that they were bound to an unbeliever if they leave. However, he does say that two Christians that are married to each other that if they divorce they should remain single or go back to the one they were married to. Why is that? Why make a distinction like? And you believe that an unbeliever would share the same values as a Christian? Do you believe that an unbelieving wife would submit and obey her Christian husband?

There is nothing in the Bible showing that both spouses were unbelievers before they were married. This is what St. Paul says:

1 Corinthians 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

According to this passage, St. Paul was speaking to Christians who had chosen to marry an unbeliever. It shows that one spouse was already a believer and had chosen to marry an unbeliever. St. Paul already gave the answer to your question (See 1 Corinthians 7:15-17).

1 Corinthians 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

As Christians we are to love our neighbors. And our neighbors are also the non-Christians. Your prejudice of non-Christians is showing.

 

[Prentis]

There is nothing in the Bible showing that both spouses were unbelievers before they were married. This is what St. Paul says:

1 Corinthians 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

According to this passage, St. Paul was speaking to Christians who had chosen to marry an unbeliever. It shows that one spouse was already a believer and had chosen to marry an unbeliever. St. Paul already gave the answer to your question (See 1 Corinthians 7:15-17).

1 Corinthians 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

As Christians we are to love our neighbors. And our neighbors are also the non-Christians. Your prejudice of non-Christians is showing.

I greatly disagree... We should love our neighbors... But we should not be yoked unequally! Does loving your neighbors mean marrying them?

This passage does not say they weren't married before conversion... It says if he 'has' a wife, present tense, but does not say when he was married. He is also speaking to young converts, not Jews or those who grew up in Christian families (they were the first Gentile believers!)

Why marry someone who does not have the same direction as you do? This wife could not be an appropriate help meet, since what the husband seeks to do, she has no understanding or desire to help him in! That is, be conformed to Christ.

 

[treeberry]

So where did he say they can? You know, it’s no wonder most Christian relationships show little difference from those in the world......the divorce rate is pretty much the same as those in the world. Christians divorcing is even higher then atheist and agnostic.....what does that tell you? We claim we want to have a successful marriage but we go out and get ourselves involve with people that do not share what we claim to believe in.....we are shooting for the lowest common denominator. Its no wander why God told the house of Israel that they were destroyed because of a lack of understanding. He might as well have been talking to us.

I agree with Prentis and Buzz here, since what they have said is plainly backed by scriptural evidence and even early Christian traditional can support this. I find it a hard stretch to suggest that non-Christians and Christians should marry when nowhere in the Bible does it say it is encouraged, nor does the Bible give instruction to how to marry those people. Scripture gives us instruction on how to marry OTHER Christians.

In addition, there is plenty of evidence to support Buzz, since interfaith marriages have significantly higher divorce rates compared to the national average.

Buzz, I also agree with you on #3, but I have questions on #1 and #4. I have been told that since attraction and sexual problems are often present in many Christian marriages, mostly because sexuality isn't taught to couples properly, the attraction piece is important. With deference, I mean in terms of leadership. I've had many men tell me that if a woman does not show a willingness to naturally defer or let him take the lead in a relationship, she isn't marriage material because a wife is to submit in a marriage.

 

[Prentis]

I know this wasn't addressed to me... But this is the thought I had.

I've had many men tell me that if a woman does not show a willingness to naturally defer or let him take the lead in a relationship, she isn't marriage material because a wife is to submit in a marriage.

I agree with this that the woman must learn to let the man take the lead. Men must be the head, and this is the order of God. This he honors. I would say don't marry such a woman unless the Lord leads you to, because then you can trust him to break her and teach her. Otherwise you could go through an unnecessary rough time.

I think we should ask God to show us who to marry to start with, and not go with our own desire. Not marrying is a calling only for some, not all, I am not of those. If we desire to be married, we should be patient, and ask the Lord to show us who to marry. Once he shows us the person, we must wait patiently until his timing, following wisdom.

The question might come up following these comments... Yes, I'm married.

 

[Buzzfruit]

There is nothing in the Bible showing that both spouses were unbelievers before they were married. This is what St. Paul says:

1 Corinthians 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

And you interpret that verse to mean that they went out and got married to unbelieving mate? If that is the case why would Paul tell the Christian not to put the person away, if the Christian willingly got married to that person in the first place?

According to this passage, St. Paul was speaking to Christians who had chosen to marry an unbeliever. It shows that one spouse was already a believer and had chosen to marry an unbeliever. St. Paul already gave the answer to your question (See 1 Corinthians 7:15-17).

It does not say what you are saying it says.....there is no scripture that says they got married to the unbeliever after they got converted......all indication shows that they were married before they got converted, and Paul was simply telling them that they don't have to separate from their unbelieving mate if their mate wants to remain married to them. But if their mate wants to leave, let them leave because a Christian is not bound to stay with that person if they want to leave. But yet as I said before, (which you ignored) that is not so when two Christians are married to each other.......If they separate they are not to marry anyone else unless the other person dies. Can you explain this? Why two different standards?

1 Corinthians 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

As Christians we are to love our neighbors. And our neighbors are also the non-Christians. Your prejudice of non-Christians is showing.

Let me ask you these question again, since you also ignored it the first time. Should a Christian marry a drug dealer? Should a Christian marry a prostitute? Should they marry a pagan worshiper?

 

[Buzzfruit]

I agree with Prentis and Buzz here, since what they have said is plainly backed by scriptural evidence and even early Christian traditional can support this. I find it a hard stretch to suggest that non-Christians and Christians should marry when nowhere in the Bible does it say it is encouraged, nor does the Bible give instruction to how to marry those people. Scripture gives us instruction on how to marry OTHER Christians.

In addition, there is plenty of evidence to support Buzz, since interfaith marriages have significantly higher divorce rates compared to the national average.

Buzz, I also agree with you on #3, but I have questions on #1 and #4. I have been told that since attraction and sexual problems are often present in many Christian marriages, mostly because sexuality isn't taught to couples properly, the attraction piece is important. With deference, I mean in terms of leadership. I've had many men tell me that if a woman does not show a willingness to naturally defer or let him take the lead in a relationship, she isn't marriage material because a wife is to submit in a marriage.

I did not fully understand #4 until I read it again. In our day and age a Christian man would be hard pressed to find a woman that is not a Christian and would be willing to submit to him. Its possible if the person is from a culture outside of the U.S or western influence, or with limited influence. But why take a chance? Why not trust God to find a mate within the Church? But better yet, why not focus on what God says we should be doing?


Now #1: sometime we either put ourselves in a initiation where we should not be putting ourselves or we allow ourselves to be put into it. We must learn to take charge of ourselves and not allow it to happen. Remember what Joseph did when the kings wife tried to seduce him? He got away from her.....he ran. He did not stay there and say I must resist temptation because God want me to.

 

[Selene]

[/color][/font][/color][/size][/font]

And you interpret that verse to mean that they went out and got married to unbelieving mate? If that is the case why would Paul tell the Christian not to put the person away, if the Christian wanted to be married to that person in the first place?


[/color]

They got married because they love each other. When two people are in love, they don't see the skin color or their religion, but they see a good, loving, and caring person. Did you honestly think that ONLY Christians have good, loving, and caring characteristics?

It does not say what you are saying it says.....there is no scripture that says they got married the unbeliever after they got converted......all indication shows that they were married before they got converted, and Paul was simply telling them that they don't have to separate from their unbelieving mate if they mate wants to remain married to them. But if their mate wants to leave, let them leave because a Christian is bound to stay with that person if they want to leave. But yet as I said before, (which you ignored) that is not so when two Christians are married to each other.......If they separate they are not to marry anyone else unless the other person dies. Can you explain this? Why two different standards?

St. Paul already gave you the answer (See 1 Corinthians 7:16-17).

1 Corinthians 7:15-17 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us to peace. For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save [thy] husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save [thy] wife? But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

We are to live in peace with unbelievers, not in hatred. God calls all people to know Him, but if the believer cannot bring their unbelieving spouse to know God and the unbelieving spouse departs, we are to let them go. They are to walk on their own to find God on their own or perish.

Let me ask you thes question again, since you also ignored it the first time. Should a Christian marry a drug dealer? Should a Christian marry a prostitute? Should they marry a pagan worshiper?

So....the truth finally comes out. You see a non-Christian in the same level as a drug dealer and a prostitute, which is why you place them in the same category. How sad for you. When my aunt married her husband who was a non-Christian at the time, she did not see the color of his skin nor his religion. She saw a man who was compassionate, loving, caring, and an honest person. Of course, he had his faults like all of us, but she loved him even in his faults. Did she and her husband have problems with their different religion? Of course, they did, but they overcame those problems. In a marriage, that is what God expects us to do.....overcome the problems that always comes our way. And the person who puts God first is able to do that more easily because with God all things are possible.

I don't know about you, but God loves the drug dealer and the prostitute. We are all sinners. Do you think that you are better than them? It's ironic that you ask if a Christian should marry a prostitute. Did you not know that the prophet Hosea married a prostitute, and Hosea married her because he loved her (See Hosea 1:2). The prophet Hosea even wanted his prostitute wife to return to him despite the fact that she slept with so many men. This is the kind of love that God has for each one of us. No matter how many times we sinned, God still loves us.

One of my sisters in my community also prays everyday for her adulterous husband to return to her, and it's been 5 years since they separated. Now, that is what I call true love. Her husband betrayed her and is living with another woman, and instead of hatred and bitterness, she forgave her husband and prays for him and for the woman he's living with. She has learned to love the enemy. I must admit that I admire her for that because I don't think I can love the enemy let alone pray for them.

 

[Selene]

I did not fully understand #4 until I read it again. In our day and age a Christian man would be hard pressed to find a woman that is not a Christian and would be willing to submit to him. Its possible if the person is from a culture outside of the U.S or western influence, or with limited influence. But why take a chance? Why not trust God to find a mate within the Church? But better yet, why not focus on what God says we should be doing?

Why take a chance? Oh my goodness....this only goes to show that you trust your decisions more than God's will. If it is in God's will that you fall in love with a non-Christian so she can come to know God and be converted, you would rather follow your will?

 

[Selene]

I greatly disagree... We should love our neighbors... But we should not be yoked unequally! Does loving your neighbors mean marrying them?

This passage does not say they weren't married before conversion... It says if he 'has' a wife, present tense, but does not say when he was married. He is also speaking to young converts, not Jews or those who grew up in Christian families (they were the first Gentile believers!)

This is incorrect. The Corinthians were not the first Gentile believers. It was the people of Antioch who were the first. When St. Paul wrote that letter, he was in Epheus for three years. Prior to being in Epheus, he had already built the Church in Corinth. If you read the entire letter, he was admonishing the Corinthians for the divisions in the Church (See 1:10–4:21) and then he chatises them for their immorality towards one another (See 5:1–6:20). Then he speaks about marriage right after that. St. Paul was writing to a Church that he had already established in Corinth. So, when he addressed that Church in Corinth, he was speaking to the brothers who married an unbeliever. The brothers were presently Christian and chose to marry an unbeliever, and he did not condemned that marriage.

It wasn't until his second letter to the Corinthians that he speaks about unequally yoked. In here, he was not speaking about marriage because he already spoke about marriage in his FIRST letter to the Corinthians. Paul's second letter to the Corinthians speaks about a different topic than his first letter.

 

[Buzzfruit]

Why take a chance? Oh my goodness....this only goes to show that you trust your decisions more than God's will.

Anything that is not in a Christian's best interest is a taking a chance. Do you want to make things as easy and simple as possible or do you want to go through un-necessary grief?

If it is in God's will that you fall in love with a non-Christian so she can come to know God and be converted, you would rather follow your will?

You are suggesting that God would want a Christian to marry someone that does not share their belief? If you marry someone that is opposed to your values and beliefs, how can you teach your child your values if your mate is undermining what you are doing?

They got married because they love each other. When two people are in love, they don't see the skin color or their religion, but they see a good, loving, and caring person. Did you honestly think that ONLY Christians have good, loving, and caring characteristics?





St. Paul already gave you the answer (See 1 Corinthians 7:16-17).

1 Corinthians 7:15-17 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us to peace. For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save [thy] husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save [thy] wife? But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

We are to live in peace with unbelievers, not in hatred. God calls all people to know Him, but if the believer cannot bring their unbelieving spouse to know God and the unbelieving spouse departs, we are to let them go. They are to walk on their own to find God on their own or perish.


[/size][/font][/size][/font][/font]

So....the truth finally comes out. You see a non-Christian in the same level as a drug dealer and a prostitute, which is why you place them in the same category. How sad for you. When my aunt married her husband who was a non-Christian at the time, she did not see the color of his skin nor his religion. She saw a man who was compassionate, loving, caring, and an honest person. Of course, he had his faults like all of us, but she loved him even in his faults. Did she and her husband have problems with their different religion? Of course, they did, but they overcame those problems. In a marriage, that is what God expects us to do.....overcome the problems that always comes our way. And the person who puts God first is able to do that more easily because with God all things are possible.

I don't know about you, but God loves the drug dealer and the prostitute. We are all sinners. Do you think that you are better than them? It's ironic that you ask if a Christian should marry a prostitute. Did you not know that the prophet Hosea married a prostitute, and Hosea married her because he loved her (See Hosea 1:2). The prophet Hosea even wanted his prostitute wife to return to him despite the fact that she slept with so many men. This is the kind of love that God has for each one of us. No matter how many times we sinned, God still loves us.

One of my sisters in my community also prays everyday for her adulterous husband to return to her, and it's been 5 years since they separated. Now, that is what I call true love. Her husband betrayed her and is living with another woman, and instead of hatred and bitterness, she forgave her husband and prays for him and for the woman he's living with. She has learned to love the enemy. I must admit that I admire her for that because I don't think I can love the enemy let alone pray for them.

Up to now you have not answered my questions. What is it about so many Christians that they can't answer a direct question? I might as well end my discussion with you if you’re going to respond but completely ignore what I asked you.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

[/font][/font][/size]

Anything that is not in a Christian's best interest is a taking a chance. Do you want to make things as easy and simple as possible or do you want to go through un-necessary grief?





You are suggesting that God would want a Christian to marry someone that does not share their belief? If you marry someone that is opposed to your values and beliefs, how can you teach your child your values if your mate is undermining what you are doing?

I personally don't see anything in the Bible that says we have to only marry Christians. There's more in the NT that suggests we should remain unmarried. That said......

How do you know that your spouse wont be saved later?

 

[Buzzfruit]

I personally don't see anything in the Bible that says we have to only marry Christians. There's more in the NT that suggests we should remain unmarried. That said......

How do you know that your spouse wont be saved later?

There's nothing in the Bible that say we should not smoke so does that mean you can smoke? There is a thing called wisdom, and the scripture says the one who lacks it should ask God for it. I see no wisdom in marrying someone that does not value God's word the way I do.

I don't try to fool myself into thinking that the person may convert.......that would just be an excuse for me to do what wisdom tells me is foolish.

 

[Selene]

[/font][/font][/size]

Anything that is not in a Christian's best interest is a taking a chance. Do you want to make things as easy and simple as possible or do you want to go through un-necessary grief?

Oh ye of little faith. Do you not trust God that you have to look for the easy way because you are afraid of trials?

Up to now you have not answered my questions. What is it about so many Christians that they can't answer a direct question? I might as well end my discussion with you if you’re going to respond but completely ignore what I asked you.

All this time that you and I have been posting back and forth, YOU still haven't figured out that I don't see anything wrong with a Christian marrying a non-Christian? You actually need to ask that question when it should already been obvious from my posts that I don't see anything wrong with a Christian marrying a non-Christian.

I personally don't see anything in the Bible that says we have to only marry Christians. There's more in the NT that suggests we should remain unmarried. That said......

How do you know that your spouse wont be saved later?

I agree.

 

[aspen]

There is a big difference between God warning about keeping the jewish tribes pure from other cultural practices and relegious idoatry; and the early church, warning against marrying outside of a newly forming church, which happened to be illegal to practice and could haved ended in martyrdom AND 2000 years later, marrying a nonbeliever who lives in a western culture steeped in Christian history, which is perfectly legal annd socially acceptable to practice.

God doesn't change, but cultures do. Why can't our doctrine and theology and rigid tendencies of thinking recognize this and flex? Are we really going to allow fear to dictate our mode of interpreting the reality of our changing culture?

 

[us2are1]

No, it is not in all situations. If it was in all situations, then why would Christ command His Apostles to go out into the pagan world to speak to them? In that Scripture, it is not speaking about marriage. It is actually a warning to the Corinthians against the infiltration of pagan practices which would split the church and cut it off from the its founder. As disciples of Christ, we are sent into the pagan world to be the light of Christ so that all who see our light will come to know God our Father and glorify Him. But as disciples of Christ, we are not supposed to follow pagan beliefs. That is what St. Paul is saying to the Corinthians. He never said, "Don't marry a non-Christian."

If St. Paul was actually prejudice against the pagans in regards to marriage, he would have condemned the marriage of those Christians who were married to pagans, but he never did. Instead, he stated that the unbelievers were sanctified through their Christian spouse. Imagine that!!!!

1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the believing wife; and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the believing husband otherwise your children should be unclean, but now they are holy.

Imagine that! St. Paul stated that the unbelievers are SANCTIFIED. He certainly is not prejudice of pagans. Furthermore, he would not have called the pagans in Athens "brothers", but he did (See Acts 17:22-29). St. Paul was not prejudice nor racist. We should not hate the pagans. St. Paul associated with pagans when he went to speak to them, but It is their religion and practices that he did not associate himself with.

In this case Paul was speaking of those who were converted while already married to unbelievers. There are many scriptures about this scenario. On the other hand it seems like a no brainer that a christian should not seek a relationship with a none believer. They have nothing in common and the entire subject reaks of the lust of the flesh.

 

[Buzzfruit]

Oh ye of little faith. Do you not trust God that you have to look for the easy way because you are afraid of trials?

So you believe that a Christian can marry a pagan, right?

There is a big difference between God warning about keeping the jewish tribes pure from other cultural practices and relegious idoatry; and the early church, warning against marrying outside of a newly forming church, which happened to be illegal to practice and could haved ended in martyrdom AND 2000 years later, marrying a nonbeliever who lives in a western culture steeped in Christian history, which is perfectly legal annd socially acceptable to practice.

God doesn't change, but cultures do. Why can't our doctrine and theology and rigid tendencies of thinking recognize this and flex? Are we really going to allow fear to dictate our mode of interpreting the reality of our changing culture?

I have asked several questions and you'll have been dancing around them.

I personally don't see anything in the Bible that says we have to only marry Christians. There's more in the NT that suggests we should remain unmarried. That said......

How do you know that your spouse wont be saved later?

You must be reading a different bible.

In this case Paul was speaking of those who were converted while already married to unbelievers. There are many scriptures about this scenario. On the other hand it seems like a no brainer that a christian should not seek a relationship with a none believer. They have nothing in common and the entire subject reaks of the lust of the flesh.

It is very telling when people who claim to be Christian and desire a mate outside the Church.

 

[Prentis]

To Selene, they were the first generation of Christians specifically where they lived, if you will. In other words, they had not been born in Christian families, rather they were brought to Christ by the coming of Paul.

There is a big difference between God warning about keeping the jewish tribes pure from other cultural practices and relegious idoatry; and the early church, warning against marrying outside of a newly forming church, which happened to be illegal to practice and could haved ended in martyrdom AND 2000 years later, marrying a nonbeliever who lives in a western culture steeped in Christian history, which is perfectly legal annd socially acceptable to practice.

God doesn't change, but cultures do. Why can't our doctrine and theology and rigid tendencies of thinking recognize this and flex? Are we really going to allow fear to dictate our mode of interpreting the reality of our changing culture?

There is a difference between fearing... And wisdom! And wisdom is important!

What purpose is there in marrying someone who has an earthly or other direction than we do? If the woman is to be a help meet, we make it an impossibility by doing so! If this couple has daughters, who will raise them up and teach them in the ways of God? The mother, who does not even believe?

God made man and woman to become one that he might have godly offspring.... Not so we could marry a person of our liking!

We have been grafted into Israel, why would we marry outside of it?