Christians are not sinners

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robert derrick

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Even so we are no longer 'sinners' but 'saints'.
Exactly. It's all about what we call ourselves and see ourselves as.

For as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.

No one calling themselves sinners has ever even tried to call themselves a saint. By their carnal minds, they think that to be hubris and pride, because it is unattainable in this life.

Going to sin no more is antithetical to sinners, because it is the commandment of the law of the Spirit of Life, to which the carnal mind refuses to be subject. They aren't even willing to entertain the idea of actually obeying it.

And yet, Scripture commands His people to be called saints, and to be holy as He is holy. To be pure as He is in this world.
 

robert derrick

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There are no saved sinners, but only unsaved Christians.

The unsaved Jews religion is false, and the unsaved Christians religion is false.

God is not a respecter of persons, and all sinners shall die in their sins.

The only sinners God has any respect toward and anything good to speak of, is them that repent and believe Him and the gospel of His dear Son to wash away all their sins by His blood shed on the cross.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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There are no saved sinners, but only unsaved Christians.

The unsaved Jews religion is false, and the unsaved Christians religion is false.

God is not a respecter of persons, and all sinners shall die in their sins.

The only sinners God has any respect toward and anything good to speak of, is them that repent and believe Him and the gospel of His dear Son to wash away all their sins by His blood shed on the cross.

so you’re saying that you wont commit a single sin for the rest of the day?
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Just that God says we are,
1 John1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

1 John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

As long as the Christian conditionally continues to walk in the light then all of his sins are continually cleansed away, so sins are not imputed to the Christians but cleansed away. Yet the 'walk' will not be perfectly sinless, there will be sins committed along the walk but as long as the Christian does not abandon the walk completely his sins will still ALL be cleansed away and that continual cleansing leaves the Christian spotless, blameless, holy before God (2 Peter 3:14; Ephesians 1:4) not a sinner before God. The walk includes continual repenting, confessing of sins (1 John 1:9) and if the Christian quits the walk, quits repenting/confessing of sin then his sin will be credited to him and those sins will no longer cleansed away making him now a sinner before God.

So God does not see 'walking' Christians as sinners for all their sin are continually cleansed away and God sees them as spotless, holy, blameless and not sinners. Sinners are those who sin and will not repent of their sins, so they continually live in sin and seen as a sinner by God.
 
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robert derrick

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The difference between saved Christians and unsaved Christs, between saints and sinners, is that of willingness, of a willing heart:

Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land

Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly.


Christians being saved by the faith of Jesus are willing to believe the power of the blood is to wash away all sins from their souls, and so they are willing to believe they have power to obey Him in all things, and so to go and sin no more.

Christians not being saved by the faith of Jesus are unwilling to even consider going to sin no more as possible, but in stead they degenerate the blood of the Lamb into that of a bull or a goat, that only covers up their sins from judgment of God, so that they are enabled in obeying and disobeying Him from time to time without guilt of sin.

Christians being saved have willing and obedient hearts for God: loving God with all the heart and in singleness of mind.

Christians not being saved have unwilling and disobedient hearts from time to time against God: loving God with half a heart and in double mindedness.

Christians being saved pray for God's grace to help in time of need to endure temptation and overcome all sins of the world, even as Jesus did.

Christians not being saved celebrate another grace to help in time of need to not be judged for falling down flat in defeat of sin, which Jesus did not.

Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.


Christians being saved know to sin is to serve sin and the devil, and all sin is unrighteousness.

Christians not being saved feign ignorance of sin being of the devil, but rather is only something to merely fall into from time to time. Though they really really really didn't want to.
 

PinSeeker

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Like many other things in the Bible, one can be called a sinner in two different contexts, both from Romans 1:

a. One who denies the truth in unrighteousness and suppress the truth, and still dwells in sin ~ antichrists, actually (1 John 2)

b. One who, though he has been reborn of the Spirit of God, still sins (because if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us; 1 John 1:8) but does not dwell in it and therefore is repentant of it, not denying the truth in unrighteousness or suppressing it truth but in fact desiring it and seeking after it ~ and, like Paul, knows how wrong it is and desires to be free of it forever ~ those in Christ, Who Himself is the truth (and the way and the life)​

Funny (or, well, "funny," in the sense that it is not surprising) how all these threads seem to run together after a time. This one, and "OSAS" (perseverance of the saints), and "Where do babies go," "Robots and will worshipers"... All of them, really. To God be the glory!

Grace and peace to all.
 
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robert derrick

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1 John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

As long as the Christian conditionally continues to walk in the light then all of his sins are continually cleansed away, so sins are not imputed to the Christians but cleansed away. Yet the 'walk' will not be perfectly sinless, there will be sins committed along the walk but as long as the Christian does not abandon the walk completely his sins will still ALL be cleansed away and that continual cleansing leaves the Christian spotless, blameless, holy before God (2 Peter 3:14; Ephesians 1:4) not a sinner before God. The walk includes continual repenting, confessing of sins (1 John 1:9) and if the Christian quits the walk, quits repenting/confessing of sin then his sin will be credited to him and those sins will no longer cleansed away making him now a sinner before God.

So God does not see 'walking' Christians as sinners for all their sin are continually cleansed away and God sees them as spotless, holy, blameless and not sinners. Sinners are those who sin and will not repent of their sins, so they continually live in sin and seen as a sinner by God.
Fair enough.

It's all about faithfulness, willingness, and a sound mind.

As with an airplane, it's all about the attitude that determines altitude: the commitment to where we are going, and how to get there.

The saint is purposed to go and sin no more. the sinners is purposed to go and sin some more.

Unsaved sinners are carnal minded, and unsaved Christians are double minded.

Neither of them will ever commit to not sinning, because the former knows they must sin, being sinners, while the latter excuse their sins, being hypocrites.

So God does not see 'walking' Christians as sinners for all their sin are continually cleansed away and God sees them as spotless, holy, blameless and not sinners. Sinners are those who sin and will not repent of their sins, so they continually live in sin and seen as a sinner by God.

Since unsaved Christians only believe in blood that 'covers' their remaining sins, to continue therein, then the blood of the Lamb will never wash them clean away.

Saved Christians are continually walking in the washing of the blood in the full Light of Christ, so that if they sin they confess, repent, and go on to glory.

Unsaved Christians are continually walking in covered up sins with two eyes for sin and Christ, so that when they sin, they have no need of confession nor repentance, because they've got it covered, and so go on to sin some more.

It's all about attitude:

That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments: And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Fair enough.

It's all about faithfulness, willingness, and a sound mind.

As with an airplane, it's all about the attitude that determines altitude: the commitment to where we are going, and how to get there.

The saint is purposed to go and sin no more. the sinners is purposed to go and sin some more.

Unsaved sinners are carnal minded, and unsaved Christians are double minded.

Neither of them will ever commit to not sinning, because the former knows they must sin, being sinners, while the latter excuse their sins, being hypocrites.

So God does not see 'walking' Christians as sinners for all their sin are continually cleansed away and God sees them as spotless, holy, blameless and not sinners. Sinners are those who sin and will not repent of their sins, so they continually live in sin and seen as a sinner by God.

Since unsaved Christians only believe in blood that 'covers' their remaining sins, to continue therein, then the blood of the Lamb will never wash them clean away.

Saved Christians are continually walking in the washing of the blood in the full Light of Christ, so that if they sin they confess, repent, and go on to glory.

Unsaved Christians are continually walking in covered up sins with two eyes for sin and Christ, so that when they sin, they have no need of confession nor repentance, because they've got it covered, and so go on to sin some more.

It's all about attitude:

That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments: And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.

From Ephesians 1:4, Ephesians 5:27 and 2 Peter 3:14 Christians are those who have the trait of being without spot, without wrinkle, blameless and holy. One cannot be a sinner and possess these traits at the same time. The verb "cleanseth" in 1 John 1:7 is present tense. so it is that continual cleansing away of ALL sins that has the Christian being spotless, blameless, holy before God and not seen as a sinner. So even though the Christian sins, but as long as he CONTINUES to walk in the light then ALL his sins are CONTINUALLY cleansed away leaving him spotless, blameless, righteous before God, those sins are not credited to him.

Luke 1:6 "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."
John's parents are said to be "blameless" but that does not mean they were perfectly sinless. Even though they sinned they were still seen as "righteous" by God (not seen as sinners) for they had an obedient faith continually walking in all the commandments of and ordinances of God. Hence because their walking, because of their obedience, God saw them as righteous not as sinners. The sinner is the one who will not walk in God's commandments.
 

Pearl

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Exactly. It's all about what we call ourselves and see ourselves as.

For as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.

No one calling themselves sinners has ever even tried to call themselves a saint. By their carnal minds, they think that to be hubris and pride, because it is unattainable in this life.

Going to sin no more is antithetical to sinners, because it is the commandment of the law of the Spirit of Life, to which the carnal mind refuses to be subject. They aren't even willing to entertain the idea of actually obeying it.

And yet, Scripture commands His people to be called saints, and to be holy as He is holy. To be pure as He is in this world.
To continue to call yourself a sinner after you become a born again Christian is to deny the power of the cross and resurrection. It will slow down your growth.

It is shocking how many who call themselves Christians don't understand this concept of being sinless in God's eyes because we have had our sin washed away by the blood of Jesus.
 
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Taken

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Inventive.

So, it would be more accurate to call oneself an unsaved Christian, than a saved sinner.

You can call yourself whatever you want.

Personally, my preference is according to Jesus;
Converted in Christ) as foretold and effective.
* Foretold;
Pss 51:13
Isa 60:5
* Effective:
Matt 13:15
Matt 18:3
Mark 4:12
Luke 22:12
Acts 3:19
Acts 28:27
 

Enoch111

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There are no Scriptures speaking of saved and redeemed sinners, but only of saved and redeemed saints in Christ Jesus.
Correct. All those who have been saved by grace and washed in the blood of the Lamb are saints -- sanctified in Christ Jesus. But since "the flesh" (sin nature) has not been eradicated, they can and do sin. And God has made provision to deal with those sins (see the first epistle of John).

Paul always addressed the Christians in the different churches as "saints" -- "called saints". NOT "called [to be] saints". The "to be" is in italics in the KJV because it was inserted by the translators. But the Greek says "called saints".

Now if we are called saints by God, then we ought to behave as saints. Our speech and actions must reflect that standing.
 

Windmillcharge

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1 John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

As long as the Christian conditionally continues to walk in the light then all of his sins are continually cleansed away, so sins are not imputed to the Christians but cleansed away. Yet the 'walk' will not be perfectly sinless, there will be sins committed along the walk but as long as the Christian does not abandon the walk completely his sins will still ALL be cleansed away and that continual cleansing leaves the Christian spotless, blameless, holy before God (2 Peter 3:14; Ephesians 1:4) not a sinner before God. The walk includes continual repenting, confessing of sins (1 John 1:9) and if the Christian quits the walk, quits repenting/confessing of sin then his sin will be credited to him and those sins will no longer cleansed away making him now a sinner before God.

So God does not see 'walking' Christians as sinners for all their sin are continually cleansed away and God sees them as spotless, holy, blameless and not sinners. Sinners are those who sin and will not repent of their sins, so they continually live in sin and seen as a sinner by God.

Yes that is how God sees us, but that is only because of the constant forgiveness being poured out on us.
As the text says . If we say we have no sin, we do not know Jesus!
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Yes that is how God sees us, but that is only because of the constant forgiveness being poured out on us.
As the text says . If we say we have no sin, we do not know Jesus!
Since a continued walking in the light cleanses away all the Christians sins, (1 John 1:7) then God does not see the Christian as a sinner but as a 'clean' righteous person.
 
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robert derrick

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For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens.

How can a Christian be a sinner, when Christ is separate from sinners?

Christian sinner, saved sinner, etc...are contradiction of terms.

Christ lives in me, a sinner, and yet Christ is separate from me.

Sinners who claim Christ are taking the Lord's name in vain.

Either repent of sins and believe Jesus to do His will as Lord of all, or stop using His name in vain at all.
 

robert derrick

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O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Why is it sinners claiming to be Christians, never ever once refer to themselves as saints?

The claim to be the elect by predestinated fate, but never saints? They never go anywhere calling themselves the righteous, or in the congregation of the righteous.

What is in our hearts is what we confess: sinners confess being sinners and saints confess being saints.

The name 'Christian' has been worn out and reduced to meaning nothing by sinners who are separate from Christ in word and deed.

And so, there are saved Christians knowing they are called to be saints, and there are unsaved Christians calling themselves sinners and not saints.
 
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robert derrick

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O ye sons of men, how long will ye turn my glory into shame? how long will ye love vanity, and seek after leasing? Selah.

But know that the LORD hath set apart him that is godly for himself: the LORD will hear when I call unto him. Stand in awe, and sin not: commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah.


Sinners claiming Christ put Jesus to an open shame, and turn His glorious salvation into a thing of naught.

Sinners calling themselves Christians love the vanity of seeking after license to sin, and being saved.

The godly are set apart for the Lord, not the ungodly sinners.

Sin not was commanded in the old, where it was not possible by blood of bulls and goats, but is now commanded in the new by the blood of the Lamb where it is not possible to continue in sins.

Sinners sin, saints sin not.
 

robert derrick

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What do you do if you commit a sin then? We can ask for forgiveness. Jesus tells us to when we recite the Lord's Prayer. It is a pattern for other prayers.I am sure He stuck the Forgive our trespasses part in there because He knew we would fall.


I guess i really don't understand what you all mean by having no sin. For one to say I don't sin sounds like the Pharisee.
Luke 18:9-14

9 "To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ "

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

None of us go through the day without unclean thoughts (including anger). We should be asking for forgiveness of sin daily, as Jesus showed us. And asking for the power to overcome. We can, with the help of the Holy Spirit, push thoughts out of our minds. God gives us power to overcome.

Past sins are gone, and Amen to that. But we have today, and every one of us will fall today without Jesus.
The problem with human reasoning in the doctrine of Christ, is that it makes human standards for that of Christ and His people.

I am sure He stuck the Forgive our trespasses part in there because He knew we would fall. But we have today, and every one of us will fall today without Jesus.

So which is it? Christians will fall or they will only fall without Jesus?

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.

We should be asking for forgiveness of sin daily, as Jesus showed us.

Jesus never taught us to ask forgiveness daily, because He never taught His people to sin daily.

Once again, the carnal mind at work to undermine eternal salvation for obeying Him daily.

You really must consider the fact that open sinners are applauding you for teaching daily falling and sinning.

When teaching something, we are exhorting it.

And asking for the power to overcome. We can, with the help of the Holy Spirit.

Putting such exhortation to overcome sin merely becomes lip service to Scripture, when dropped in the middle of a teaching about such impossibility on a daily basis.

The message of your teaching is clear: you will fall and you will sin and you will need ask forgiveness for it daily, while actually overcoming sin by the power of the Spirit is just a quaint idealism.

None of us go through the day without unclean thoughts (including anger).

Who is this 'us'? Sinners, or saints? Christ? If you're not talking about Jesus Christ, then your not talking about His Christians.

I was in such a case of double mindedness, until I repented and took the war to the enemy to make His fiery darts fall short of the door: DOA.

You can't keep vain thoughts for sin from entering thru the mind to take root with lust in your heart?

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

The problem with lip service to the overcoming power of the Spirit, is it only goes so far, and then concedes defeat to the rest, and looks at overcoming all things, even as He did, to be some ideal not realized unto after this life.

Casting down every vain imagination in the mind is considered idealistic, but not realistic.

That is the heart of human reasoning and sinners, who want to claim Christ, but don't believe they can be as Christ in this world, even as He was on earth, and is now in heaven:

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.


Them that have the mind of Christ, do not have the mind of sinners and of the devil.
 

robert derrick

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The main problem with sinners is that they don't look at sin as God does in Scripture.

To sinners sin is natural, normal, and to be expected.

Double minded Christians expect the same thing, while trying to teach righteousness as also now natural, normal, and to be expected.

However, in this world, sin of the devil is indeed the standard, nor righteousness of God.

In our sinful flesh, there is absolutely nothing natural and normal about doing the righteousness of God, but only about continuing in the sin.

And so, double minded Christians preach becoming 'good sinners', following Christ in certain things at times, and following the devil in certain things from time to time.

And yet all sin before God is unrighteousness, transgression, and of the devil.

Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil.

Committing sin is of the devil and is giving place to the devil: it is bowing down before the devil and worshipping him as lord.

Any sinners claiming Christ who sin from time to time, want to label it for what it really is? Worshipping the devil from time to time? Supping at the table of Belial from time to time?

And so, we see how sinners claiming Christ must downgrade sin to something much less evil.

They simply sin from time to time, since all sinners on earth do, and so as Christians they merely fall into sin from time to time.

Sinners know they are sinners and not saints, and saints know they are saints and not sinners, and the double minded Christians know they are still sinners and not just saints.

The only real difference between the two, is not forgiveness for one but not the other. No the real dirty little secret is that sinners claiming Christ, commit sins that don't stink as bad in the nostrils of the Lord as do real unsaved sinners.

Real sinners are really sinners, and real saints are really saints.

Sinners claiming Christ aren't really anything at all:

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

The only thing they really are is decieved about God's eternal salvation and themselves already having gotten it in the bag.

They celebrate being so rich in grace, that they have no need to repent of all their sins, because they've already been forgiven of them in the past.

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.


Even as sin is not a plaything with God, nor is repenting a mind game with sin.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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The main problem with sinners is that they don't look at sin as God does in Scripture.

To sinners sin is natural, normal, and to be expected.

Double minded Christians expect the same thing, while trying to teach righteousness as also now natural, normal, and to be expected.

However, in this world, sin of the devil is indeed the standard, nor righteousness of God.

In our sinful flesh, there is absolutely nothing natural and normal about doing the righteousness of God, but only about continuing in the sin.

And so, double minded Christians preach becoming 'good sinners', following Christ in certain things at times, and following the devil in certain things from time to time.

And yet all sin before God is unrighteousness, transgression, and of the devil.

Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil.

Committing sin is of the devil and is giving place to the devil: it is bowing down before the devil and worshipping him as lord.

Any sinners claiming Christ who sin from time to time, want to label it for what it really is? Worshipping the devil from time to time? Supping at the table of Belial from time to time?

And so, we see how sinners claiming Christ must downgrade sin to something much less evil.

They simply sin from time to time, since all sinners on earth do, and so as Christians they merely fall into sin from time to time.

Sinners know they are sinners and not saints, and saints know they are saints and not sinners, and the double minded Christians know they are still sinners and not just saints.

The only real difference between the two, is not forgiveness for one but not the other. No the real dirty little secret is that sinners claiming Christ, commit sins that don't stink as bad in the nostrils of the Lord as do real unsaved sinners.

Real sinners are really sinners, and real saints are really saints.

Sinners claiming Christ aren't really anything at all:

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

The only thing they really are is decieved about God's eternal salvation and themselves already having gotten it in the bag.

They celebrate being so rich in grace, that they have no need to repent of all their sins, because they've already been forgiven of them in the past.

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.


Even as sin is not a plaything with God, nor is repenting a mind game with sin.

i’ve asked you this question before without getting a response. I doubt this time will be any different, but here goes.
Are you saying that you dont sin anymore??