Christians are not sinners

[robert derrick]

There is always one or two Scriptures that ends all dispute of doctrine of God, and they are usually the most obvious ones staring us in the face:

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners.

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

God's people are not sinners, and sinners are not God's people.

There are no Scriptures speaking of saved and redeemed sinners, but only of saved and redeemed saints in Christ Jesus.

Those falling all over themselves to call themselves sinners, in most humble fashion, never ever refer to themselves as saints.

How can them that say they are as depraved as any sinner in the world ever refer to themselves as the righteous?

They even accuse the chiefest of the apostles as claiming to have been the chiefest of sinners during His apostleship.

Paul was not the apostle of sinners, but rather was the apostle of the saints, questioning how any that are called to be saints, can possibly continue in sins in this present world.

Sinners say they can. God does not.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Just that God says we are,
1 John1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

 

[Taken]

Christians are not sinners
OP ^

OP Supposed Fact
Pertaining to two words (Christians/ Sinners) with multiple meanings.

* Christians - are people who are following and believing the teachings of Jesus.
(Some ARE Saved, who sin no more.
(Some ARE NOT Saved, who still Commit sin.

* Sinner - is a condition that applies to all of mankind.
(Some ARE Forgiven Sinners, who sin no more.
(Some ARE NOT Forgiven, who still Commit sin.

 

[Taken]

Just that God says we are,
1 John1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Three separate verses, with Three separate applications.
Determining the application....ALL HANGS ON the CAVEAT of ..... IF

1 John 1:8
IF we claim “to BE WITHOUT sin”.....does not apply to the OP.

1 John 1:9
IF we “confess OUR sins”....(is acknowledging one has SIN, and 1 John 1:8 DOES NOT APPLY to a person)....nor does it apply to the OP

1 John 1:10
IF we claim we “HAVE NOT SINNED”....(is one denying he HAS COMMITTED SIN, and DOES NOT APPLY to a 1 John 1:9 confessing person)....nor does it apply to the OP

The OP Title, is neither CLAIMING;
TO BE....without sin, confessing sin, or have not sinned.

The OP Title, IS Claiming, IF a person is identifying themselves as a CHRISTIAN, they ARE “THEREFORE” NOT “COMMITTERS OF SIN”.

^ Scripture says no such thing.

1 John 1:8....”WITHOUT SIN”....Every earthly body HAS SIN.
....Some bodys have forgiven and covered sin.
....Some bodys have sin that is Not forgiven or covered.

1 John 1:9....”CONFESS OUR SINS”....First requires a person to acknowledge they HAVE SIN, HAVE COMMITTED SIN...thus the Scripture says SIN(S).
....Some people HAVE acknowledged their SIN(S), and asked for Forgiveness.
....Some people HAVE NOT acknowledged their SIN(S), nor asked for Forgiveness.

...THE MAJORITY of people on this Forum, have REVEALED, they acknowledged their SIN(S) and ASKED for Forgiveness.
....SOME others on this Forum, have REVEALED, they acknowledge their SIN(S) and ASKED for Forgiveness, BUT THAT THEY CONTINUE TO SIN, and REPEATEDLY ASK FOR FORGIVENESS....which means, the last portion of
1 John 1:9 does NOT apply to them...being purified from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.
* IF they had been PURIFIED FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS...
Hasn’t that purification FROM ALL unrighteousness, MADE the man Righteous?
Does a Righteous man COMMIT SIN?
Or DID the “purification” (works of God), FAIL?
NOT in harmony with Scripture ^

Does a Title ie Christian, (as in the OP), make a man NOT a committer of SIN? No

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

This dude has been wrong since day 1. But it makes me happy to see that there are those on here who do understand we are all sinners. I responded to him on another thread. Whats so bad is 1 john clearly states that if we say we are not sinners, then the truth is not in us. In other words, you arent saved. This shows why good Biblical doctrine is so important.

 

[Windmillcharge]

The OP Title, IS Claiming, IF a person is identifying themselves as a CHRISTIAN, they ARE “THEREFORE” NOT “COMMITTERS OF SIN”.

which is the same as saying that one does not sin.

 

[Taken]

which is the same as saying that one does not sin.

There IS scripture that applies to men FORGIVEN their SINS, and they “SIN NO MORE”....

SIN “NO MORE”....is having already acknowledge “THEIR SIN”, been forgiven, and DO NOT CONTINUE TO “COMMITSIN”.
THAT ^ I agree with.

I do not agree with OP....that “calling oneself A CHRISTIAN”... means they no longer “COMMIT SIN’.
Scripture says no such thing.

I boldly claim do NOT “commit” Sin...
^ THAT has nothing to do with a man calling himself a Christian.
^ THAT is not a claim I am “without” sin.
^ THAT is not a claim I have never “committed” sin.

 

[Taken]

which is the same as saying that one does not sin.

Point being....the OP is saying one does not COMMIT sin...because he is identifying himself as a CHRISTIAN... false.

Point being...the OP is not claiming....”WITHOUT” sin...or “NEVER COMMITTED” sin....thus the scripture you posted (1 John 1:8 and 1 John 1:10) do not apply.

 

[robert derrick]

Just that God says we are,
1 John1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

So, you are ungodly sinner?

Sinners will stand in the congregation of the righteous?

 

[robert derrick]

Christians are not sinners
OP ^

OP Supposed Fact
Pertaining to two words (Christians/ Sinners) with multiple meanings.

* Christians - are people who are following and believing the teachings of Jesus.
(Some ARE Saved, who sin no more.
(Some ARE NOT Saved, who still Commit sin.

* Sinner - is a condition that applies to all of mankind.
(Some ARE Forgiven Sinners, who sin no more.
(Some ARE NOT Forgiven, who still Commit sin.

Inventive.

So, it would be more accurate to call oneself an unsaved Christian, than a saved sinner.

Agreed. Christians openly showing they are sinners in word and deed, are the professors of Christ that deny Him in sinful works.

Christians in name only.

 

[Helen]

Agree …Even The writer of Amazing Grace , so many years ago ago …KNEW that he’d been a sinner , but saved by grace , now a clean son of Father God.

we are what God says we are …REDEEMED , WASHED, and ADOPTED.

 

[Pearl]

But it makes me happy to see that there are those on here who do understand we are all sinners

We were all sinners until we let Jesus wash our sin away with his blood and once that has happened we are then saints and no longer sinners in God's eyes. If you believe differently then you are following a different/false gospel.

 

[Helen]

We were all sinners until we let Jesus wash our sin away with his blood and once that has happened we are then saints and no longer sinners in God's eyes. If you believe differently then you are following a different/false gospel.

AMEN

I believe it is an insult to the redemptive work of Christ and the power of the blood of Jesus , to continue to call ourselves “sinners “…when He does not.

 

[robert derrick]

Three separate verses, with Three separate applications.
Determining the application....ALL HANGS ON the CAVEAT of ..... IF

1 John 1:8
IF we claim “to BE WITHOUT sin”.....does not apply to the OP.

1 John 1:9
IF we “confess OUR sins”....(is acknowledging one has SIN, and 1 John 1:8 DOES NOT APPLY to a person)....nor does it apply to the OP

1 John 1:10
IF we claim we “HAVE NOT SINNED”....(is one denying he HAS COMMITTED SIN, and DOES NOT APPLY to a 1 John 1:9 confessing person)....nor does it apply to the OP

The OP Title, is neither CLAIMING;
TO BE....without sin, confessing sin, or have not sinned.

The OP Title, IS Claiming, IF a person is identifying themselves as a CHRISTIAN, they ARE “THEREFORE” NOT “COMMITTERS OF SIN”.

^ Scripture says no such thing.

1 John 1:8....”WITHOUT SIN”....Every earthly body HAS SIN.
....Some bodys have forgiven and covered sin.
....Some bodys have sin that is Not forgiven or covered.

1 John 1:9....”CONFESS OUR SINS”....First requires a person to acknowledge they HAVE SIN, HAVE COMMITTED SIN...thus the Scripture says SIN(S).
....Some people HAVE acknowledged their SIN(S), and asked for Forgiveness.
....Some people HAVE NOT acknowledged their SIN(S), nor asked for Forgiveness.

...THE MAJORITY of people on this Forum, have REVEALED, they acknowledged their SIN(S) and ASKED for Forgiveness.
....SOME others on this Forum, have REVEALED, they acknowledge their SIN(S) and ASKED for Forgiveness, BUT THAT THEY CONTINUE TO SIN, and REPEATEDLY ASK FOR FORGIVENESS....which means, the last portion of
1 John 1:9 does NOT apply to them...being purified from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.
* IF they had been PURIFIED FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS...
Hasn’t that purification FROM ALL unrighteousness, MADE the man Righteous?
Does a Righteous man COMMIT SIN?
Or DID the “purification” (works of God), FAIL?
NOT in harmony with Scripture ^

Does a Title ie Christian, (as in the OP), make a man NOT a committer of SIN? No

You are following the logic of the Scriptural argument.

As Christians, our first duty is to faithfully follow and do the word of the Lord, which is Scripture.

It is Scripturally false, and so contrary to the doctrine of Christ, for Christians to call themselves sinners, especially to act like them.

It amazes me how blind people are to this simple fact of Scripture.

Those opposing Scripture can never offer any Scripture to prove their own declaration: I am a saved sinner. I am a Christian sinner. I am a sinner saved by grace.

And when much Scripture is given to show that is self-contradictory, they by pass them to go on and trot out their usual Scriptures that are twisted to their own liking. All for what reason? To keep calling themselves and acting like sinners.

They spend their entire Christian life justifying themselves as sinner, and even demand all others calling themselves Christians must do likewise, else they are the ones not 'really' saved.

They truly are children playing around where they have no business being:

They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.

They are not offended at being ungodly sinners. They only get offended when Christians don't dance to their sinful tune.

 

[Cassandra]

What do you do if you commit a sin then? We can ask for forgiveness. Jesus tells us to when we recite the Lord's Prayer. It is a pattern for other prayers.I am sure He stuck the Forgive our trespasses part in there because He knew we would fall.


I guess i really don't understand what you all mean by having no sin. For one to say I don't sin sounds like the Pharisee.
Luke 18:9-14

9 "To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ "

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

None of us go through the day without unclean thoughts (including anger). We should be asking for forgiveness of sin daily, as Jesus showed us. And asking for the power to overcome. We can, with the help of the Holy Spirit, push thoughts out of our minds. God gives us power to overcome.

Past sins are gone, and Amen to that. But we have today, and every one of us will fall today without Jesus.

 

[Pearl]

What do you do if you commit a sin then? We can ask for forgiveness. Jesus tells us to when we recite the Lord's Prayer. It is a pattern for other prayers.I am sure He stuck the Forgive our trespasses part in there because He knew we would fall.


I guess i really don't understand what you all mean by having no sin. For one to say I don't sin sounds like the Pharisee.
Luke 18:9-14

9 "To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ "

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

None of us go through the day without unclean thoughts (including anger). We should be asking for forgiveness of sin daily, as Jesus showed us. And asking for the power to overcome. We can, with the help of the Holy Spirit, push thoughts out of our minds. God gives us power to overcome.

Past sins are gone, and Amen to that. But we have today, and every one of us will fall today without Jesus.

Our BIG SIN was our unbelief, our determination to go our own way instead of God's, being separated from Him. But once we accept Jesus blood as atonement or ransom for our sin we are now reconciled to God and the big sin is gone. Of course because of our human nature we do continue to commit misdemeanours but the difference from before and after we accept Jesus is that before we did not realise our sin and after we now know and recognise when we have done something 'sinful' and can seek forgiveness - or as a lovely lady told me as a new Christian - keep short accounts.

 

[Cassandra]

Of course because of our human nature we do continue to commit misdemeanours but the difference from before and after we accept Jesus is that before we did not realise our sin and after we now know and recognise when we have done something 'sinful' and can seek forgiveness

Exactly what I thought.

 

[Pearl]

Exactly what I thought.

Even so we are no longer 'sinners' but 'saints'.

 

[robert derrick]

This dude has been wrong since day 1. But it makes me happy to see that there are those on here who do understand we are all sinners. I responded to him on another thread. Whats so bad is 1 john clearly states that if we say we are not sinners, then the truth is not in us. In other words, you arent saved. This shows why good Biblical doctrine is so important.

But it makes me happy to see that there are those on here who do understand we are all sinners.

They don't just celebrate their grace, they are also happy about their sins.

Incredible. How great is the blindness that thinks it is light.

Being happy about how sinful others say they are.

It's the old adage of thinking they have safety in numbers.

The number of the beast is the number of a man: a sinner man. Sinning 6 is the best they will ever do, and they will ever being doing it to the grave 666.....

 

[robert derrick]

Let them also that love thy name be joyful in thee. For thou, LORD, wilt bless the righteous; with favour wilt thou compass him as with a shield.

Sinners or the righteous? There are no righteous sinners blessed of God, nor sinfully righteous.

Sin has never become exceeding sinful to sinners saved by grace: they merely fall into sin.

Sin is not sin to sinners, but only some temporary pleasure to enjoy from time to time.