"Christians don't know what they believe." - until they are brainwashed

[Hillsage]

WRONG. There was only ONE Church.

WRONG. There IS only ONE church.

MAT 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church,


When GOD looks down from heaven, to this day, HE only sees ONE CHURCH. And 'that church' is the one which is the "many membered" "body of Christ". And Jesus, ''my/our LORD' is building 'that church'.

1CO 12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.

And since I was born, baptized and raised in the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH you apparently don't know about, then I can't expect you
to understand I was taught that our churches roots went all the way back to PETER. LIE. Doesn't matter, I was a CATHOLIC for 19 years, hellbent for 4 years and then BORN AGAIN and SAVED in 1972. Now I tell people my roots go back to JESUS and His "rock/boulder" foundation.....and not the "rock"/pebble Peter' foundation.

And 'that church' is under the roof of every denomination, home group where "two or more" are gathering in the name of Jesus. Only problem is most of those gatherings have more unsaved than saved in them. IMO. But Jesus knows which ones are his.

There is no "Roman" Catholic Church.

Roman (Latin) simply refers to one of about twenty Liturgical Rites that comprise the ONE Catholic Church. This includes the Maronite, Byzantine, Melkite, Coptic, Alexandrian, etc.- ALL of which are not "Roman" Catholics.

Some people know who's washed their 'religious' brains , but I'm of the opinion MOST do not. Sadly, many pollsters agree, the pew warmers with itching ears outnumber the saved under many/most roofs. Jesus knows who his truly are.

 

[BreadOfLife]

MAT 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church,

When GOD looks down from heaven, to this day, HE only sees ONE CHURCH. And 'that church' is the one which is the "many membered" "body of Christ". And Jesus, ''my/our LORD' is building 'that church'.

1CO 12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.

And since I was born, baptized and raised in the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH you apparently don't know about, then I can't expect you
to understand I was taught that our churches roots went all the way back to PETER. LIE. Doesn't matter, I was a CATHOLIC for 19 years, hellbent for 4 years and then BORN AGAIN and SAVED in 1972. Now I tell people my roots go back to JESUS and His "rock/boulder" foundation.....and not the "rock"/pebble Peter' foundation.

And 'that church' is under the roof of every denomination, home group where "two or more" are gathering in the name of Jesus. Only problem is most of those gatherings have more unsaved than saved in them. IMO. But Jesus knows which ones are his.

This response is a textbook example of the utter ignorance of ex-Catholics. You don’t understand Scripture, Church history or what Catholics believe, so you leave – then deny the Church’s Apostolic roots.

Shoe me a clueless Catholic and I’ll show you a Protestant . . .

Some people know who's washed their 'religious' brains , but I'm of the opinion MOST do not. Sadly, many pollsters agree, the pew warmers with itching ears outnumber the saved under many/most roofs. Jesus knows who his truly are.

Ummmm, NOT sure what this has to do with your blunder in referring to the Catholic Church as the “Roman” Catholic Church. I‘ll just attribute it to more of that ignorance that drove you away . . .

 

[ElieG12]

Why do we need the church to TELL us what we believe?
...

Jesus made a related question:

Matt. 24:45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so! 47 Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings."

So, we all need to be sure that we are eating from the hands of that "faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics".

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Why do we need the church to TELL us what we believe?

Jesus made a related question:

Matt. 24:45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so! 47 Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings."

So, we all need to be sure that we are eating from the hands of that "faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics".

Thanks, good find.
But I think you are missing to point.

Did the "slave" have to inform his master's domestics as to what food is?

/

 

[ElieG12]

Since I am a Jehovah's Witness I don't think I am missing any point, but you are.

Tell me something:

Do you think that 49 AD Christians had "a steward" who decided what those who became Christians should believe and practice, or do you think they did not have one?

A clue:

Acts 15:1 Now some men came down from Judea and began to teach the brothers:
“Unless you get circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”
2 But after quite a bit of dissension and disputing by Paul and Barnabas with them, it was arranged for Paul, Barnabas, and some of the others to go up to the apostles and elders in Jerusalem regarding this issue.
(...) 6 So the apostles and the elders gathered together to look into this matter.

 

[St. SteVen]

Since I am a Jehovah's Witness I don't think I am missing any point, but you are.

Tell me something:

Do you think that 49 AD Christians had "a steward" who decided what those who became Christians should believe and practice, or do you think they did not have one?

A clue:

Acts 15:6 So the apostles and the elders gathered together to look into this matter.

One thing is for sure.
The 49 AD Christians weren't Jehovah's Witnesses.
Unless the Bible says so?

Does everything we do need to be in the Bible?

And Acts chapter 15 had nothing to do with this.

Feel free to respond. But my intention was not to make this a topic about debating JW beliefs.

/

 

[ElieG12]

So, yes, you are missing the point.

As you can see here:

Acts 15:1 Now some men came down from Judea and began to teach the brothers:
“Unless you get circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”
2 But after quite a bit of dissension and disputing by Paul and Barnabas with them, it was arranged for Paul, Barnabas, and some of the others to go up to the apostles and elders in Jerusalem regarding this issue.
(...) 6 So the apostles and the elders gathered together to look into this matter.

... there was a "slave over the domestics" in 49 AD. and all Christians had to follow their understanding:

Acts 15:22 Then the apostles and the elders, together with the whole congregation, decided to send chosen men from among them to Antioch, along with Paul and Barnabas; they sent Judas who was called Barsabbas and Silas, who were leading men among the brothers. 23 They wrote this and sent it through them:
“The apostles and the elders, your brothers, to those brothers in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia who are from the nations: Greetings! 24 Since we have heard that some went out from among us and caused you trouble with what they have said, trying to subvert you, although we did not give them any instructions, 25 we have come to a unanimous decision to choose men to send to you together with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have given up their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We are therefore sending Judas and Silas, so that they also may report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”
30 So when these men were dismissed, they went down to Antioch, and they gathered the whole group together and handed them the letter. 31 After reading it, they rejoiced over the encouragement.

I totally understand why certain people try to discredit the Bible.

 

[ElieG12]

I understand that some people have the idea that every Christian has to become independent and live their own "Christianity"... So they try to make others believe that they should do the same.

The main issue here is:

They advise this

1) because they do it and it turns out well, or
2) because they really think it is the correct way to do it according to what they believe the Christians of the first century did, or
3) because it is the easy way to create a comfort zone and not have anyone bother them, or
4) because they make sure they don't have to obey anyone, or
5) for some other reason?

PS: No first century Christian was allowed to do something like that.

 

[St. SteVen]

Does everything we do need to be in the Bible?

@ElieG12
Do you sit on chairs for worship service?
That's unbiblical. (1 Corinthians 14:29-30)

/

 

[ElieG12]

Are you going to teach us what is unbiblical?

What a joke! that you believe that there cannot be a group of people leading the congregation, and at the same time you believe that you can tell others what is unbiblical!!!

 

[St. SteVen]

Are you going to teach us what is unbiblical?

What a joke! that you believe that there cannot be a group of people leading the congregation, and at the same time you believe that you can tell others what is unbiblical!!!

That seems rather disrespectful.
Did you look at the scripture reference I provided?
You can decide for yourself whether it is biblical or not.

But since you seem to claim to ONLY do what is biblical, how will you respond?

/

 

[ElieG12]

Are you going to teach us what is unbiblical?

What a joke! that you believe that there cannot be a group of people leading the congregation, and at the same time you believe that you can tell others what is unbiblical!!!

Like saying: "you can't accept what others tell you ... but me".

 

[Spyder]

With man's fallen nature and the deterioration of "the church" that has been taking place for thousands of years because of man finding power, prestige, and profit from it; there must come a time when those who truly seek truth must put away the milk of the original teaching and search for meat. The only way to do that is too put away our own egos and pride and ask Yahweh for help. It is much better when done with fellow believers - but none of them are "a teacher."

 

[ElieG12]

I can't lie about it, and to be honest I can only tell you that you are looking in the wrong places, and that is why you are so disappointed in the religious world today.

If you had a better alternative than studying the Bible with a Jehovah's Witness, wouldn't that be something that was clear on religion forums? But what I read is disappointment in the sects of Christendom and an invitation to isolate oneself from any community...

Why don't they consider the free alternative of going to a Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses and seeing if what they are looking for is there, instead of assuming that Christ does not lead any modern religious people?

Religious beliefs have become multiple interpretations, and not indisputable truths as they should be. Religious behavior is governed by worldly forces rather than the spirit of God and proper education in biblical principles. But in my people all these things are very different.

You can start going to our Commemoration of Jesus death next March 24 https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/memorial/ where we celebrate the ocassion Jesus asked to do:

Luke 22:19 Also, he took a loaf, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: “This means my body, which is to be given in your behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” 20 Also, he did the same with the cup after they had the evening meal, saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in your behalf."

 

[marks]

Do you sit on chairs for worship service?
That's unbiblical. (1 Corinthians 14:29-30)

1 Corinthians 14:29-30 KJV
29) Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30) If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

???

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

With man's fallen nature and the deterioration of "the church" that has been taking place for thousands of years because of man finding power, prestige, and profit from it; there must come a time when those who truly seek truth must put away the milk of the original teaching and search for meat. The only way to do that is too put away our own egos and pride and ask Yahweh for help. It is much better when done with fellow believers - but none of them are "a teacher."

That depends who you hang with. I agree with your idea...but there are still spiritual brethren around...as few and far between as that may be. No use in forsaking religion to also forsake sound doctrine. God has given the Body, teachers and prophets....for growth in Christ.

Peace.

 

[St. SteVen]

You can start going to our Commemoration of Jesus death...

Complete with pictures of Jesus hanging on a stake? (instead of a cross) ???

/

 

[Ezra]

Ephesians 4:11-16 KJV
11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Because God set it up that way.

Much love!

exactly i didnt know the Bible before i got saved i sat under sound trusted doctrine and i have always been under sound doctrine . i know preach sound doctrine . a good Bible believing church helps with this " That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; " the Church nourishes the those who attend

 

[St. SteVen]

exactly i didnt know the Bible before i got saved i sat under sound trusted doctrine and i have always been under sound doctrine . i know preach sound doctrine . a good Bible believing church helps with this " That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; " the Church nourishes the those who attend

You didn't know the Bible before you got saved? Imagine that. - LOL
But now that the church told you what to believe you know all about it, right?
Did you bother to read the OP? (opening post) Are you evangelical?

"Evangelicals have absolutely no idea what they believe." - John MacArthur

/

 

[Spyder]

That depends who you hang with. I agree with your idea...but there are still spiritual brethren around...as few and far between as that may be. No use in forsaking religion to also forsake sound doctrine. God has given the Body, teachers and prophets....for growth in Christ.

Peace.

Yes there are. Those who initially believe in Yahweh as God and Yeshua as the Messiah will need help in understanding. Teachers help with that. At some point, they need only a community who depends on God to give truth as they read scripture and discuss among themselves in order to grow. A building with a Pastor and teacher can start the seed, but God gives the growth.