Christians mistreating other Christians over doctrinal differences

[reformed1689]

Do you remember what doctrine Martin Luther was famous for?

Lots of things.

 

[Willie T]

I think it was mainly The Priesthood of Believers and the doctrine of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

 

[bbyrd009]

As clever as one can be dishonest, it can never make itself honest.

i'm sorry but that is not even proper english. If you would pls ID how "one" apparently became "it?"
And why cant "it" make itself honest, any time it likes, all by itself; confession leads to salvation right?

"you reap what God sows" otherwise, seems to me.
This is wadr imo what comes of having a personified god, who "exists," etc
more private interps and satans dialectic, which i mean no offense ok, thats ezackly where i started

 

[bbyrd009]

I think it was mainly The Priesthood of Believers and the doctrine of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

2 outta 3 aint bad

 

[Willie T]

2 outta 3 aint bad

I guess you wanted Sola Scriptura also?

 

[bbyrd009]

I guess you wanted Sola Scriptura also?

you mean as a doctrine i guess? hell no with a capital h lol. I'm actually not too big on any of the "alones" either tbh; imo men should not be using words like "always, never, only (alone)" etc, simply bc they were/ are devised to divide, not embrace, imo

now i am all for sola graphe, what Paul surely meant iow, when he wasnt being read to ppls destruction, but our scribes have helped us to perdition with their trannies there imo, and now we are talking abput a completely diff subject; when test everyrhing, and keep what is good is disseminated in writings iow, not just what we now define as exclusively Bible.

Paul even made the point by referring to many extra-Biblical works i think? Epicurean refs, Jannes and Jambres, several others, Stoic refs, Masonic refs, etc

 

[Sabertooth]

I think it was mainly The Priesthood of Believers and the doctrine of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

I withdrew the point that I was going to make because an argument is worthless when it comes to heart issues, and would be striving. (I felt the Spirit telling me to put on the brakes.)

 

[Invisibilis]

As clever as one can be dishonest, it can never make itself honest.

i'm sorry but that is not even proper english. If you would pls ID how "one" apparently became "it?"...

"it" refers to the word 'dishonest'.

Rephrased: 'As clever as one can be dishonest, that dishonesty can never make itself honest.'

 

[bbyrd009]

"it" refers to the word 'dishonest'.

Rephrased: 'As clever as one can be dishonest, that dishonesty can never make itself honest.'

ok ty so not buying that one wadr, even though i think i get why you say it.

So "as clever as one can be dishonest," could you untangle that a little for me? I'm not used to your syntax yet, and i know my abbr drive some ppl nuts, but syntax errors are really hard to assimilate, for me anyway. I just cant make the sentence make any real sense, sorry.

Seems to me that clever ppl can also be honest, and stupid/ill advised/foolish ppl--which i had to go look up lol--might be just as inclined to be dishonest? Iow why are you conflating two terms that in our (supposedly) common tongue might be more likely to be contrasted? Might be just me, see, but i always considered "clever" to be more of a complimentary term?

but wadr your premise there strikes me as well ha less than clever, i mean a dishonest person might surely learn just like anyone else that "honesty is the best policy," couldn't they? Why not?

 

[bbyrd009]

if anyone has any critique here, let's hear it!

now i am all for sola graphe, what Paul surely meant iow

"
To declare that the Bible is the one and only Word of God, folks most often cite 2 TIMOTHY 3:16. There Paulseems to inform Timothy that the Bible is God-breathed, in stark contrast to other writings, which are the mere fumblings of man. What very few of these folks seem to notice is that just eight verses prior, Paul refers to the legend of Jannes and Jambres, which is wildly extra-Biblical (2 TIMOTHY 3:16).

Let's, therefore, have a calm and composed look at the wisdoms dispensed in 2 Timothy 3:15-16:...

In all occurrences of graphe where the Holy Scriptures are meant, this word is preceded by the definite article: The Scriptures, but not in 2 Timothy 3:16. The only other exception happens in JOHN 19:37, where the definite article is replaced by the word another. In 2 Timothy 3:16, Paul has the word graphe precede by the word πασα, pasa, the feminine form of πας (pas), where also the familiar word pantos comes from. This root pas means all, with a clause of one-ness; the whole of something.

In 2 Timothy 3:15-16, Paul basically divides everything that has ever been written in two parts:..."
2 Timothy 3:16 | All Scripture is God-Breathed? | Commentary


man, even if you differ with them, imo they suck you in with all the casual information they drop along the way?

The Word of God once came in the flesh, and now in Linked Data
more here, and while this is quite a bit um Further Out There i guess lol, i'm slowly coming around, myself. If this is difficult to read or you find yourself disagreeing, whats wrong with that? These are opinions, based upon possibilities, no facts or "truth" like what we have in our courtrooms, "i swear to tell the truth, the whole truth..." is being suggested here imo anyway

and one i just now discovered, hmm
καλεω | Abarim Publications Theological Dictionary (New Testament Greek)

and fwiw the Abarim are believers just like yall i guess, and they dont like me much at all! lol

 

[bbyrd009]

I think it was mainly The Priesthood of Believers and the doctrine of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

i pretty much like mluther btw, didnt mean to slur him ok

 

[Invisibilis]

ok ty so not buying that one wadr, even though i think i get why you say it.

So "as clever as one can be dishonest," could you untangle that a little for me? I'm not used to your syntax yet, and i know my abbr drive some ppl nuts, but syntax errors are really hard to assimilate, for me anyway. I just cant make the sentence make any real sense, sorry.

Seems to me that clever ppl can also be honest, and stupid/ill advised/foolish ppl--which i had to go look up lol--might be just as inclined to be dishonest? Iow why are you conflating two terms that in our (supposedly) common tongue might be more likely to be contrasted? Might be just me, see, but i always considered "clever" to be more of a complimentary term?

but wadr your premise there strikes me as well ha less than clever, i mean a dishonest person might surely learn just like anyone else that "honesty is the best policy," couldn't they? Why not?

Sorry my grammar distracts you. Over the years I have become more simple, cutting to the point, and leaving out unnecessary words. In compensation I repeat myself, and for this I have been accused for being com-parable.

bbyrd009, you are more aware of the truth than you wish to find out.
You are busy getting others to find what yourself does not wish to find. This makes for more questioning and/or disagreement on your behalf.
I know you know what I am saying, so I will no longer run around unnecessarily for you.

 

[bbyrd009]

any chance someone who sees here could interpret for me? and thank you

 

[bbyrd009]

and one i just now discovered, hmm
καλεω | Abarim Publications Theological Dictionary (New Testament Greek)

"

• Together with the preposition εκ (ek), meaning out: the verb εκκαλεω (ekkaleo), meaning to call out, that is: to summon, to assemble for some specific purpose. This verb isn't used in the New Testament but from it derives the noun εκκληος (ekkletos), which describes either a person or a group of people selected to govern or judge. From this noun in turn derives the important noun εκκλεσια (ekklesia), which describes an Assembly; not just any assembly but an Assembly duly summoned. This hefty word shows up all over the classics, and denotes a group of powerful men who have congregated in order to form a governing body or parliament, usually under a king or president: a senate that's formed from senators who each represent their own demographic group of citizens.
  This word is used 115 times in the New Testament, SEE FULL CONCORDANCE, and is most often translated with our modern word church. Our word church comes from the Greek word κυριος(kurios), which means mister or sir, which is indeed a word that denotes the highest ranking gentlemen of a society. The word church means ministry, in the sense of parliament or governing assembly. Unfortunately, this word has been hijacked in modern times and now primarily denotes a building in which people gather for an hour per week to sing self-congratulatory songs and shirk all further responsibility. When the New Testament was written, the Roman Empire had declared the war on wisdom that still rages today. Jesus embodies wisdom (that is: the knowledge of and reverence for natural law; COLOSSIANS 1:16-17), and his ekklesia is the parliament of the world's rightful government, which opposes the usurping government that's presently running things: the tyrants who enslave and who promote ignorance, vice and self-destruction. The Assembly of the Word of God has nothing to do with Sunday morning sing-alongs. In fact, sitting in static rows and doing as you're told by a guy up front is a Roman invention. It's called a Legion..." ha

 

[Willie T]

any chance someone who sees here could interpret for me? and thank you

Sorry. You, yourself, confuse me badly enough with half of what you say. Especially with all the abbreviations you assume everyone should know.

But, *Invisibilis* is even worse than you. His posts sound like a cross between a third grader who never learned the English language, and a mumbling old man on the verge of senility.

 

[bbyrd009]

Sorry. You, yourself, confuse me badly enough with half of what you say. Especially with all the abbreviations you assume everyone should know.

But, *Invisibilis* is even worse than you. His posts sound like a cross between a third grader who never learned the English language, and a mumbling old man on the verge of senility.

fwiw (for what its worth) if you highlight and Rclick (right click) on the abbreviations, most browsers will say the unabbreviated form now. If not, highlight/search usually clarifies with the first return? In ipad i notice its highlight/look up.

i understand that this is annoying, like learning anything new? So i use it on purpose now, bc after all who wants to assimilate "hegelian dialectic" even though they are already intimately familiar with it? So my apologies, but abbreviations serve several purposes for me, i am mostly seeking ppl who are comfortable being uncomfortable lol

 

[Willie T]

fwiw (for what its worth) if you highlight and Rclick (right click) on the abbreviations, most browsers will say the unabbreviated form now. If not, highlight/search usually clarifies with the first return? In ipad i notice its highlight/look up

Its easier to just ignore the post when it gets that complicated.

 

[bbyrd009]

Its easier to just ignore the post when it gets that complicated.

sure, i understand. The path of least resistance is my usual path too

 

[Invisibilis]

Sorry. You, yourself, confuse me badly enough with half of what you say. Especially with all the abbreviations you assume everyone should know.

But, *Invisibilis* is even worse than you. His posts sound like a cross between a third grader who never learned the English language, and a mumbling old man on the verge of senility.

After all these years of witnessing your posts, you are still exploiting others to exploit yourself.

 

[Willie T]

"it" refers to the word 'dishonest'.

Rephrased: 'As clever as one can be dishonest, that dishonesty can never make itself honest.'

Are you trying to say: "No matter how cleverly one speaks, if the words that are spoken are dishonest, eloquent delivery of those words won't change them into an honest statement." ?