Christians mistreating other Christians over doctrinal differences

[Invisibilis]

well, as i said i'm not quite sure "dishonesty" is the word i would have plugged in there, mighta used Hypocrisy or something, but that doesnt mean you dont have a point, more like just that i saw exceptions to what was imo being said as an Absolute Truth, just like i do now for up there, for instance someone who always lies or even embellishes say is maybe not being dishonest at all, they could be said to be "true to themselves" right? And what if i didnt create a personal issue, a personal issue just arose? And i create agendas all the time--bout to grab the dog and go up to the trailhead for a quickie; found Storm King yesterday, its 3/8 of a mile from here woo hoo--and im not feeling any tension at all? "Dishonesty of consciousness" id have to marinate on, not sure what that means. Could you rephrase that? ty

Consciously dishonest.

Tensions vary from very subtle to the obvious. The obvious ones are least expressed, but the subtle ones are the most experienced. A state of internal rest, peace, love, softness of being, gentle, humble and meek, honesty, point to having no issues/agendas. Unconditionality has no issues/agendas.

The subtle need/want to grab the dog and go somewhere has a subtle tension attached to it. The tension comes from the belief that you are not okay and you create a need or a want to obtain so you can feel okay again. The belief that you are not okay is the original sin (original dishonesty) of who we are at the innermost of us. The fear of not being okay is a form of tension. All forms of fear is a form of tension _ which wastes our life energy on our own dishonesty.

All it takes is something to cross your agenda to arouse greater tension within you. The idea that you cannot get what you want or need will create a greater want/need. Some people will 'try' to force their issues or agendas by getting angry, or frustrated, or even mildly disappointed for a second.

 

[bbyrd009]

That is central to Christianity. Without it, you have something other than Christianity.

hey, totally not disagreeing here, but that does mean they are what we define as "truth." Esp absolute truth, as was being forwarded. We call them "beliefs" for a good reason, is a point i hope to make here. And just bc i believe something does not make it Truth.

I will have an interp of the v, as will you, and if we explored our interps we would find that we do not agree, in some detail, right? But when i hold a belief as Absolute Truth, you have no choice but to agree with me or become my adversary, wouldnt you say?

 

[bbyrd009]

6 "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
John 14

No Son of Man may die for another's sins; the soul that sins will die
Ezekiel 18:20 Lexicon: "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.
sprang to mind, although i could wake up here and Quote a more apropos one prolly

now i happen to believe that both of these are truth myself, after just ignoring the second one for like forty years, but i dont know if i know these two as i should even yet, prolly dont. Meaning i am compelled to keep an open mind, and keep eating what is it? even though i would of course much rather be eating quail, like any other believer.

John 6 Parallel Chapters
John 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And this bread, which I will give for the life of the world, is My flesh."

so i mean idc if you want to keep professing beliefs as ATs ok, i still use satan's dialectic myself, pretty much all day long i guess. Iron sharpens iron, yeh? Maybe we should all go over to whatever thread BoL or some similar is ranting on, and i could maybe make the point better there, dunno

how is it you did not know I was not talking about bread?

 

[bbyrd009]

It's not a belief. It is God's Word revealed to us through His Prophets and Apostles.

you can go with that if you like, you even make a good point imo, but another is that as you indicate in your first sentence, we make ourselves liars when we insist upon our interpretations as truth, absolute truth. And i'm sure you have even recently witnessed those blowing through here trying to tell us how cows eat cabbage, yes?

so bam say that you know if you like, brother, i dont mean to condemn you ok, but it is most certainly a belief. Bc see Ezekiel 18:20 et al is also revealed to us by the prophets, as is 1 Timothy 6:16 , Matthew 16:25, Isaiah 43:13, and many others that we do not accept as Truth, but i could fill this page with. John 3:13 John 3:13 Lexicon: "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. Proverbs 26:27 barketh, barketh

 

[bbyrd009]

Consciously dishonest.

not sure i'm following, sorry; i ask you for a rephrase and i am being "consciously dishonest?"

Tensions vary from very subtle to the obvious.

um, like stresses, you mean? Stressors?

The subtle need/want to grab the dog and go somewhere has a subtle tension attached to it. The tension comes from the belief that you are not okay and you create a need or a want to obtain so you can feel o

what if the dog just has to take a whizz? Or i guess more in kepping with your point, what if i just want/need some excercise, desire a hike? How did i create the need for excercise? Or i mean maybe you have an example that might put me in the frame better, ty

 

[bbyrd009]

Christians mistreating other Christians over doctrinal differences

we're tired of this manna; give us some meat to eat!
iron sharpens iron
i would rather never eat meat again, than offend
even
you shall not boil a kid in its mother's milk
imo
beliefs are what keep us away from the Truth imo
yall have a nice day ok

 

[bbyrd009]

we might examine why we need our beliefs to be Absolute Truths?

 

[prism]

you can go with that if you like, you even make a good point imo, but another is that as you indicate in your first sentence, we make ourselves liars when we insist upon our interpretations as truth, absolute truth. And i'm sure you have even recently witnessed those blowing through here trying to tell us how cows eat cabbage, yes?

so bam say that you know if you like, brother, i dont mean to condemn you ok, but it is most certainly a belief. Bc see Ezekiel 18:20 et al is also revealed to us by the prophets, as is 1 Timothy 6:16 , Matthew 16:25, Isaiah 43:13, and many others that we do not accept as Truth, but i could fill this page with. John 3:13 John 3:13 Lexicon: "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. Proverbs 26:27 barketh, barketh

**and many others that we do not accept as Truth**
**we might examine why we need our beliefs to be Absolute Truths?**

Do you like Haiku?

In the pool we go
With no foundation for foot
Slipping and sliding

 

[prism]

beliefs are what keep us away from the Truth imo
yall have a nice day o

Is that the Truth or is that your belief?

 

[Invisibilis]

not sure i'm following, sorry; i ask you for a rephrase and i am being "consciously dishonest?"
um, like stresses, you mean? Stressors?

what if the dog just has to take a whizz? Or i guess more in kepping with your point, what if i just want/need some excercise, desire a hike? How did i create the need for excercise? Or i mean maybe you have an example that might put me in the frame better, ty

All that you are conscious (aware) of is being honest. Not because of an agenda/issue, but pure honesty of mind.

Tension is holding on, instead of letting go.

We all have subtle forms of tension we act upon. Maybe the dog can't get out for a whizz because you did not 'want' it to run freely. You don't 'want' the dog to whizz inside. etc. As you said 'what if I just want/need some exercise...'. All issues and agendas are exploited to fulfill your wants/needs to feel okay again. All our needs and wants are in service of our false (dishonest) self image (identity or ego). While Christ Jesus was in service of his Father/God/Truth. In service with the flow of Truth from the highermost (God) through his innermost (Christ) and to the outermost (throughout the world he walked through). Anything other than serving what is not true; yes, our own fabricated identity is not true, just a fantasy to believe in, to serve, to be enslaved to it (its our bondage to the flesh).

 

[bbyrd009]

ah ok ty

Is that the Truth or is that your belief?

"imo"

 

[amadeus]

ah well i'm a liar and a thief tho...

Leaves plenty of room for improvement... but then if "every man is a liar" who does not have room to go up higher? Just don't take so much initiative in it. Wait for the word to "come up hither".

As for the thieves, I guess it does make a difference, at least in the moment, exactly why one takes something that is not his.

 

[amadeus]

There are those who would use your version of being filled with the Holy Spirit to denounce my experience and, in turn, require me to renounce it. I'm okay with "live and let live."

Stand where God has placed you with what He has given you. He always knows exactly what He is doing and why!

"Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice." Phil 4:4

"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content." Phil 4:11

 

[bbyrd009]

Leaves plenty of room for improvement... but then if "every man is a liar" who does not have room to go up higher? Just don't take so much initiative in it. Wait for the word to "come up hither".

As for the thieves, I guess it does make a difference, at least in the moment, exactly why one takes something that is not his.

ah, not a thing thief, more of an emo thief or something, something to do with my rampant perfectionism or idealism or something? Theres prolly a term for it, but i'm weak in the psychological sciences

 

[amadeus]

I came not to bring peace...

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." Matt 10:34-36

 

[bbyrd009]

All that you are conscious (aware) of is being honest

hmm, i'm aware of being dishonest too, so wadr again your "opening" is throwing me. Maybe someone can interpret for me, surely it is my hearing

 

[bbyrd009]

Do you like Haik

man, sorry, but i am not seeing why you quoted me to say this at all.
Does it somehow address those vv that most believers dislike addressing, or are you meaning to infer that they are beneath consideration with your poem?

 

[amadeus]

ah, not a thing thief, more of an emo thief or something, something to do with my rampant perfectionism or idealism or something? Theres prolly a term for it, but i'm weak in the psychological sciences

Whatever the proper word for it may be, you are not the only one with this weakness. On the one hand the Lord tells us to be perfect like his Father, while on the other hand, we are told not to love world, which includes the "pride of life"... which I am sure includes your difficulty.

Lots of "Christians" say they would like to be like Jesus, but to the extent that their desire to be like Him is selfish, rather than because they love God, likely they have that same problem of rampant perfectionism. I wish I could never I never had such a problem. My problem is when I think I am getting past the first two in the following verse, I am assailed by the 3rd one. The good thing I guess is that God taps me on the shoulder softly or sometimes raps me very hard on the head to let me know my direction is wrong:

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, 1) the lust of the flesh, and 2) the lust of the eyes, and 3) the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:15-16

And then we must also consider the very next verse:

"And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." I John 1:17

When our personal world does pass away will we have anything that will abide for ever?

 

[prism]

man, sorry, but i am not seeing why you quoted me to say this at all.
Does it somehow address those vv that most believers dislike addressing, or are you meaning to infer that they are beneath consideration with your poem?

The Haiku was in response to this your statement..."and many others (scripture verses) that we do not accept as Truth,"

 

[reformed1689]

They are none too happy with me getting the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, though.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is simply salvation. Nothing less, nothing more.