Christians Wake up!

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

RR144

Well-Known Member
Feb 12, 2019
598
290
63
61
INDIANA
www.kingdomherald.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
A great Light once came into a dark world. But it did not shine long: Jesus died on a cross. Soon afterward His disappointed friends were filled with joy at the news of His resurrection. They learned that He had given His life as a sacrifice for sins, and that His death was the basis for their salvation. Jesus' free gift enables salvation for all who shall ever believe. And earnest light-bearing followers continue to show forth that Light.

Not long after His death, unrighteous teachers assumed authority. They ignored the moral lessons in Hebrew Scripture. They invented theological language through which to conceal their own subtle changes and deceptions. Councils devel oped creeds through which they taught unholy errors, and those errors are still only too often accepted as authoritative truths. These councils demanded agreement with their creeds from all who wanted permission to speak from the pulpit in God's name.

Creed-taught error continues today. Evangelical crusaders and fundamentalist campaigners unknowingly misrepresent the true and loving God. When sincere, religious people express opinions which oppose God's revealed purpose, darkness only increases, masquerading as Christianity.

Many have not learned that man is a soul (Gen. 2:7). Instead, they believe what the serpent told Eve, "thou shalt not surely die." They have not learned that "the soul that sinneth, it shall die" (Ezek. 18:4). Many do not understand that "the wages of sin is death" (Rom. 6:23), or that death means non-existence.

God's mercy, the Bible says, "endureth forever," yet He is perceived as a God who reserves unending conscious punishment with literal fire for the unsaved. This idea obscures God's expressed intention to bless with resurrection all of the dead--both the just and the unjust.--Acts 24:15

Christians are told to love their enemies (Matt. 5:43-48). Having commanded us to love our enemies, would God then burn his? "God is love" (I John 4:16). Love motivated Him to offer His only Son for a depraved and sinful world (John 3:16). One with such love would surely not torture those same people even for one minute!

Many have not learned that God's judgments are intended to teach people about righteousness (Isa. 26:9). His judgments are also intended to destroy transgressions, evil, and evil doers (Psalm 39:8-10). Surely His mercy would ensure that no more than necessary punishment is exacted.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,484
31,633
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What about using the not-in-the-Bible word Bible?

Fallacy of composition detected.
Careful with this...
Mt 1:1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
bivbloß Biblos (bib'-los); Noun Neuter, Strong #: 976
  1. a written book, a roll, a scroll
KJV Word Usage and Count
book13
The word, "Bible" literally means "book". Is that word not found in the written Scripture?
 
  • Like
Reactions: rwb and RR144

Stumpmaster

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2009
2,098
1,420
113
69
Hamilton, New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Careful with this...
Mt 1:1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
bivbloß Biblos (bib'-los); Noun Neuter, Strong #: 976
  1. a written book, a roll, a scroll
KJV Word Usage and Count
book13
The word, "Bible" literally means "book". Is that word not found in the written Scripture?
Right, but it's not a reference to the whole Bible.
 

liafailrock

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2015
496
337
63
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
A great Light once came into a dark world. But it did not shine long: Jesus died on a cross. Soon afterward His disappointed friends were filled with joy at the news of His resurrection. They learned that He had given His life as a sacrifice for sins, and that His death was the basis for their salvation. Jesus' free gift enables salvation for all who shall ever believe. And earnest light-bearing followers continue to show forth that Light.

Not long after His death, unrighteous teachers assumed authority. They ignored the moral lessons in Hebrew Scripture. They invented theological language through which to conceal their own subtle changes and deceptions. Councils devel oped creeds through which they taught unholy errors, and those errors are still only too often accepted as authoritative truths. These councils demanded agreement with their creeds from all who wanted permission to speak from the pulpit in God's name.

Creed-taught error continues today. Evangelical crusaders and fundamentalist campaigners unknowingly misrepresent the true and loving God. When sincere, religious people express opinions which oppose God's revealed purpose, darkness only increases, masquerading as Christianity.

Many have not learned that man is a soul (Gen. 2:7). Instead, they believe what the serpent told Eve, "thou shalt not surely die." They have not learned that "the soul that sinneth, it shall die" (Ezek. 18:4). Many do not understand that "the wages of sin is death" (Rom. 6:23), or that death means non-existence.

God's mercy, the Bible says, "endureth forever," yet He is perceived as a God who reserves unending conscious punishment with literal fire for the unsaved. This idea obscures God's expressed intention to bless with resurrection all of the dead--both the just and the unjust.--Acts 24:15

Christians are told to love their enemies (Matt. 5:43-48). Having commanded us to love our enemies, would God then burn his? "God is love" (I John 4:16). Love motivated Him to offer His only Son for a depraved and sinful world (John 3:16). One with such love would surely not torture those same people even for one minute!

Many have not learned that God's judgments are intended to teach people about righteousness (Isa. 26:9). His judgments are also intended to destroy transgressions, evil, and evil doers (Psalm 39:8-10). Surely His mercy would ensure that no more than necessary punishment is exacted.

Creeds make it harder to know God than it need be. They confuse many by using the not-in-the-Bible word Trinity. This makes it difficult to distinguish the everlasting God, his one and only begotten Son, and the holy influence, power, spirit which they both direct. A clear understanding of God's plan of salvation emerges when people dismiss credal distortions and accept what the Bible teaches.
I agree with you 100%. A lot of the bad doctrine that you are talking about crept in from other cultures and paganism. Maybe it's because I'm a Sir Isaac Newton-like time freak, but I do get hung up (maybe more than I ought to) about the Sabbath and Feast Days of Leviticus 23. Unlike some churches that observe them, I won't make it a salvation issue, but not knowing them and what they are about IMO cripples certain aspects of Christian understanding of God's redemptive plan (and prophecy) contained therein. I won't push them on anyone - that's just me who wants to be aware and observe those times. That said, I noticed that more and more Christian churches are starting to adopt recognition of these feasts and how they play a major role in prophecy. 40 years ago, a person as myself would have been considered strange at best, and a heretic at worst. But like I said, I am noticing more and more churches adopting this and some of the things you are saying. I'm also seeing in Christian news about revivals all over the world. I can see there's a move of God, so let's just pray (and help out where we can) and let God do the rest, akin to Paul's statement "I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase." But I promise that the next few years just around the corner are not going to be boring spiritually.
 

L.A.M.B.

Well-Known Member
Mar 22, 2022
4,383
5,792
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thank God it does now, and edifies, comforts, and exhorts us in our relationship with God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
AMEN !
It is inspired of the Holy Spirit unto holy men of God for our instruction, doctrine, correction and edification to grow thereby!

We must feast of the glorious word to have it embedded within our very being to be reminded of by the Spirit, for there may come a day when access is restricted or destroyed by the evil prince of this world once again.

Matthew 4
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.
 

rwb

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2022
3,362
1,444
113
72
Branson
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
A great Light once came into a dark world. But it did not shine long: Jesus died on a cross. Soon afterward His disappointed friends were filled with joy at the news of His resurrection. They learned that He had given His life as a sacrifice for sins, and that His death was the basis for their salvation. Jesus' free gift enables salvation for all who shall ever believe. And earnest light-bearing followers continue to show forth that Light.

Not long after His death, unrighteous teachers assumed authority. They ignored the moral lessons in Hebrew Scripture. They invented theological language through which to conceal their own subtle changes and deceptions. Councils devel oped creeds through which they taught unholy errors, and those errors are still only too often accepted as authoritative truths. These councils demanded agreement with their creeds from all who wanted permission to speak from the pulpit in God's name.

Creed-taught error continues today. Evangelical crusaders and fundamentalist campaigners unknowingly misrepresent the true and loving God. When sincere, religious people express opinions which oppose God's revealed purpose, darkness only increases, masquerading as Christianity.

Many have not learned that man is a soul (Gen. 2:7). Instead, they believe what the serpent told Eve, "thou shalt not surely die." They have not learned that "the soul that sinneth, it shall die" (Ezek. 18:4). Many do not understand that "the wages of sin is death" (Rom. 6:23), or that death means non-existence.

God's mercy, the Bible says, "endureth forever," yet He is perceived as a God who reserves unending conscious punishment with literal fire for the unsaved. This idea obscures God's expressed intention to bless with resurrection all of the dead--both the just and the unjust.--Acts 24:15

Christians are told to love their enemies (Matt. 5:43-48). Having commanded us to love our enemies, would God then burn his? "God is love" (I John 4:16). Love motivated Him to offer His only Son for a depraved and sinful world (John 3:16). One with such love would surely not torture those same people even for one minute!

Many have not learned that God's judgments are intended to teach people about righteousness (Isa. 26:9). His judgments are also intended to destroy transgressions, evil, and evil doers (Psalm 39:8-10). Surely His mercy would ensure that no more than necessary punishment is exacted.

Creeds make it harder to know God than it need be. They confuse many by using the not-in-the-Bible word Trinity. This makes it difficult to distinguish the everlasting God, his one and only begotten Son, and the holy influence, power, spirit which they both direct. A clear understanding of God's plan of salvation emerges when people dismiss credal distortions and accept what the Bible teaches.

Why blame unbiblical doctrine on Creeds and Confessions? If the Creed is unbiblical prove from the Scripture how/why it is!

Look for instance at the doctrine here that you espouse. I'll point out only one point you make. You give us your opinions without bringing into harmony ALL the verses having to do with particular doctrines. You speak of man being a soul that dies, but you speak nothing of that part of our living soul that dies is flesh & bone, because the spirit that completes a living soul, returns to God who gave it. (Ecc. 12:7) Nor do you make any effort to prove what the state of being the spirit of man that returns to God in? If the soul that dies continues to be a spiritual body of believers in heaven after physical death, does the soul that shall die also include the spirit of man who dies in faith? (1Cor 15:44-49)

My understanding from Scripture shows me the outward body of flesh & bones of mankind is mortal, and therefore is destined to die, but the spirit within mankind that makes them complete living soul, that dies in faith (is born again) returns to God possessing the Spirit of Christ within. Because we have Christ's promise that we who have His Spirit within shall be eternally alive through Him until our body is physically resurrected immortal and incorruptible. (Eph 1:12-14) If the life we have through Christ's Spirit in us is eternal, and it is, when the outer body of man's soul that shall die, that death does not take the eternal spiritual life we have through His Spirit within our spirit.

Armed with this understanding, we have more clarity and greater knowledge of what Christ means when Scripture tells us the soul that sinneth shall die, does not mean that after the body of saints dies there is no longer life through our spirit that returns to God who gave it. If the soul that sins shall die means the spirit given us by God also ceases to have life after physical death, why does Christ promise us that whosoever lives and believes in Him shall NEVER die?

So the soul that is the body of flesh & bones indeed does die, for every man is destined to death, but the life we receive through Christ's Spirit within our spirit continues to give eternal spiritual life to that part of man's soul that is spirit, that in Christ shall never die. It is for this reason that John writes of "souls" being alive in heaven after physical death. Not all souls, but those who have partaken of the first resurrection through the resurrection life of Christ.
 

rwb

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2022
3,362
1,444
113
72
Branson
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What about using the not-in-the-Bible word Bible?

Fallacy of composition detected.

Though the word trinity is not specifically written in the Scriptures, one would be hard pressed to answer against the verses of Scripture speaking of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Or Father, the Word and Spirit. For according to John these three (triune/trinity) give witness in heaven and earth.

1 John 5:7 (KJV) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:8 (KJV) And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
 
  • Love
Reactions: GRACE ambassador

XFire

Active Member
May 14, 2022
150
48
28
San jose
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
AMEN !
It is inspired of the Holy Spirit unto holy men of God for our instruction, doctrine, correction and edification to grow thereby!

We must feast of the glorious word to have it embedded within our very being to be reminded of by the Spirit, for there may come a day when access is restricted or destroyed by the evil prince of this world once again.

Matthew 4
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.
I disagree with the HS instructed the writers of the NT what to write. In John 14.26 implies if the HS guided the writers then there would be NO differences in the individual stories of the synoptic Gospels. 1 or possessed men in the tombs. 1 or 2 blind that cried out for the "son of david"

Scripture inspired yes as the apostles lived and learned the stories at a min for 20yrs up to 55yrs before putting pen to paper
 

RR144

Well-Known Member
Feb 12, 2019
598
290
63
61
INDIANA
www.kingdomherald.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Why blame unbiblical doctrine on Creeds and Confessions? If the Creed is unbiblical prove from the Scripture how/why it is!

Look for instance at the doctrine here that you espouse ... Nor do you make any effort to prove what ....
Is this not a forum? A Place to dialog? I want dialog, so you have questions ... then ask.

It should be noted that this forum only allows a number of characters per post. So, I can't post lengthy comments.
 

XFire

Active Member
May 14, 2022
150
48
28
San jose
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Is this not a forum? A Place to dialog? I want dialog, so you have questions ... then ask.

It should be noted that this forum only allows a number of characters per post. So, I can't post lengthy comments.
I agree. please post biblical refs as to why things should be as the person says they are
 

rwb

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2022
3,362
1,444
113
72
Branson
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Is this not a forum? A Place to dialog? I want dialog, so you have questions ... then ask.

It should be noted that this forum only allows a number of characters per post. So, I can't post lengthy comments.

My point is that unbiblical doctrine comes in many different forms. To single out the Creeds seems you have something against the Creeds and Confessions of different Churches. It's fine if you don't agree with Creeds, but remember you too believe in a Creed every time you say Jesus is Lord!

"A creed is a statement of the shared beliefs of a community, often a religious community, that summarizes its core tenets 1. It is a concise, formal statement of essential articles of Christian belief. The earliest known creed in Christianity is “Jesus is Lord”. The Nicene Creed is one of the most widely used Christian creeds 1. Creeds can also be used to emphasize differences between the tenets of schismatic branches of a religion. They can also serve as formulations of belief when liturgical usage requires a profession of faith 12."

You also profess a creed when you say man is a soul that dies. So I asked you questions regarding that particular creed you adhere to. Like you've said this is a biblical forum for discussing biblical doctrine. Perhaps you can clarify your particular creed by explaining why you do not explain a soul is both flesh & bone and spirit?

If you're going to expose Creeds for being unbiblical and argue they often lead people away from truth, we would all be better served if you could show the same concern for every biblical Creed, rather than just those you don't agree with.
 

XFire

Active Member
May 14, 2022
150
48
28
San jose
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
My point is that unbiblical doctrine comes in many different forms. To single out the Creeds seems you have something against the Creeds and Confessions of different Churches. It's fine if you don't agree with Creeds, but remember you too believe in a Creed every time you say Jesus is Lord!

"A creed is a statement of the shared beliefs of a community, often a religious community, that summarizes its core tenets 1. It is a concise, formal statement of essential articles of Christian belief. The earliest known creed in Christianity is “Jesus is Lord”. The Nicene Creed is one of the most widely used Christian creeds 1. Creeds can also be used to emphasize differences between the tenets of schismatic branches of a religion. They can also serve as formulations of belief when liturgical usage requires a profession of faith 12."

You also profess a creed when you say man is a soul that dies. So I asked you questions regarding that particular creed you adhere to. Like you've said this is a biblical forum for discussing biblical doctrine. Perhaps you can clarify your particular creed by explaining why you do not explain a soul is both flesh & bone and spirit?

If you're going to expose Creeds for being unbiblical and argue they often lead people away from truth, we would all be better served if you could show the same concern for every biblical Creed, rather than just those you don't agree with.
I basically do not agree with any creed. Yes there are valid parts here and there. But the second man tells me what and who God is then I see that you have limited God
 

L.A.M.B.

Well-Known Member
Mar 22, 2022
4,383
5,792
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

2 Peter 1:19-21

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take HEED, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the HOLY GHOST.
2Tim. 3
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Psalm 119:105 "Thy WORD is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path."

One may disagree with the HS inspired word of God all they like but the word will also be the judge of ppl when they stand before God !

John 12:48-50
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth NOT MY WORDS, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
 
  • Love
Reactions: amigo de christo

Philip James

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
4,276
3,092
113
Brandon
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Councils devel oped creeds through which they taught unholy errors, and those errors are still only too often accepted as authoritative truths. These councils demanded agreement with their creeds from all who wanted permission to speak from the pulpit in God's name.

Hello RR,

Do you think the churches were free to disregard the decision of the first council?

'It is the decision of the holy Spirit and of us not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities,

namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from meats of strangled animals, and from unlawful marriage. If you keep free of these, you will be doing what is right. Farewell.'"


Pax et Bonum
 
  • Like
Reactions: rwb

RR144

Well-Known Member
Feb 12, 2019
598
290
63
61
INDIANA
www.kingdomherald.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hello RR,

Do you think the churches were free to disregard the decision of the first council?

'It is the decision of the holy Spirit and of us not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities,
namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from meats of strangled animals, and from unlawful marriage. If you keep free of these, you will be doing what is right. Farewell.'"


Pax et Bonum
What did Paul say?

4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
 

RR144

Well-Known Member
Feb 12, 2019
598
290
63
61
INDIANA
www.kingdomherald.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
My point is that unbiblical doctrine comes in many different forms. To single out the Creeds seems you have something against the Creeds and Confessions of different Churches. It's fine if you don't agree with Creeds, but remember you too believe in a Creed every time you say Jesus is Lord!
That's not a creed, that's a stated fact, supported by scripture, the word of God.