Church Bashing

[marks]

I disagree. It says they were standing.

And Samuel came up from the ground, and he spoke. Laws of physics may not apply the same in that realm.

Coming up from the ground implies non-physicality. Speaking requires moving air.

Much love!

 

[Lambano]

That's what I'm reading here, that people have judged their Creator to be a Monster if in fact He created man with a durable component that will suffer without Him.

Much love!

Would that judgment be correct?

Why does man rebel against his Creator? Can he choose not to rebel?

Though I think it's been shown that man has no durable part without his Creator.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The sheep/goats is when Jesus returns at the end of the great tribulation, and when He judges the nations. These are fully different events, as can be amply demonstrated. One is when Jesus returns to the earth, the other, earth is not to be found. And there is more should you actually be interested.

I disagree. (And I don’t think you can amply demonstrate that the sheep and the goats is before the millennium.) Mathew says immediately after the distress of those days (tribulation), Jesus will come to gather His chosen ones. Revelation says the rest of the dead don’t rise until after the thousand years is up.

 

[Lambano]

Can the dead stand and be judged?

Much love!

Can the dead be resurrected and become alive?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That's the sheep/goats.

Of course it is. It says it is…

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes it does. Are you thinking that means they have flesh and bone? That they are physically alive as we are alive? I don't think that.

Much love!

I do.

 

[marks]

Can the dead be resurrected and become alive?

I'm surprised no one has posted . . .

Revelation 20:5 KJV
5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Dead and death have different uses in Scripture. It is both a physical state, and a spiritual state.

These lived again, but are still "the dead".

Much love!

 

[marks]

Of course it is. It says it is…

Not the GWTJ.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I disagree. (And I don’t think you can amply demonstrate that the sheep and the goats is before the millennium.) Mathew says immediately after the distress of those days (tribulation), Jesus will come to gather His chosen ones. Revelation says the rest of the dead don’t rise until after the thousand years is up.

Matthew 25:31-33 KJV
31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Matthew 24:29-30 KJV
29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The sheep/goats is not a judgment of the dead, its of the survivors of the great tribulation.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Would that judgment be correct?

Well of course not! People bristle against God and so what? He's going to have the last laugh!

Much love!

 

[Lambano]

Well of course not! People bristle against God and so what? He's going to have the last laugh!

Much love!

Then, as always, it comes down to who has the power.

 

[Lambano]

I'm surprised no one has posted . . .

Revelation 20:5 KJV
5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Dead and death have different uses in Scripture. It is both a physical state, and a spiritual state.

These lived again, but are still "the dead".

Much love!

Ah, but the first resurrection are the Tribulation martyrs (Revelation 20:4). The second resurrection is everybody else, including the saints who died before the Great Tribulation. So, "Dead" is just a short-hand label for those who have physically lived and died. Revelation 20:12-15 indicates the "Dead" include those whose names are in the Book of Life and those whose aren't.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Not the GWTJ.

Much love!

I think so.

 

[marks]

Then, as always, it comes down to who has the power.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here.

Much love!

 

[Lambano]

I'm not sure what you are getting at here.

Much love!

Think about it.

 

[marks]

Revelation 20:12-15 indicates the "Dead" include those whose names are in the Book of Life and those whose aren't.

Really? You aren't reading that into it?

And as many as were not found written in the book of live were tossed into the Lake of Fire . . . something like that?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Think about it.

Well, either you are saying that "man ascribes power to God and therefore God is justified by that power to torment men forever, even though that's false", or maybe you are saying, "it doesn't matter who bristles at God, He's the One with power." Or maybe something else?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ah, but the first resurrection are the Tribulation martyrs (Revelation 20:4). The second resurrection is everybody else, including the saints who died before the Great Tribulation. So, "Dead" is just a short-hand label for those who have physically lived and died. Revelation 20:12-15 indicates the "Dead" include those whose names are in the Book of Life and those whose aren't.

It gets confusing. You have to set it all out in front of you at once and look for clues as to whether you can tell if it goes in one of these piles.
Before tribulation
During tribulation
After tribulation
Before millennium
During millennium
After millennium

 

[Lambano]

Really? You aren't reading that into it?

And as many as were not found written in the book of live were tossed into the Lake of Fire . . . something like that?

Much love!

Right. The implication of "as many as were not found written" implies that some were found written.

 

[marks]

Ah, but the first resurrection are the Tribulation martyrs (Revelation 20:4). The second resurrection is everybody else, including the saints who died before the Great Tribulation. So, "Dead" is just a short-hand label for those who have physically lived and died. Revelation 20:12-15 indicates the "Dead" include those whose names are in the Book of Life and those whose aren't.

Those "In Christ" are resurrected in the Rapture. The OT faithful are resurrected on the 1335th day. The tribulation martyrs are resurrected at the beginning of the millennium. And the rest of the dead are resurrected at the end of the 1000 years.

Much love!