Church Bashing

[marks]

You are making sense to me. To be eternally alive is to live forever. To be eternally dead is to be dead forever.

Revelation 20:11-15 YLT
11) And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them;
12) and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls—according to their works;
13) and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works;
14) and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire—this is the second death;
15) and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.

No one alive is being judged in this judgment. They are all dead. Not alive. Not alive then, not alive forever. They are forever dead.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

Revelation 20:12 YLT
12) and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls—according to their works;

They will not be alive to then have a life to end. They are the dead. John saw the dead, small and great, but not the living. The dead were judged . . .

Much love!

I'm pretty sure that only resurrected dead can do any standing.

28 Do not be amazed at this; for a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come out: those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the bad deeds to a resurrection of judgment. (John 5:28-29)

How can dead people hear?

 

[BarneyFife]

Not that kind of goeth. Departing, rather.

Much love!

Prove it.

 

[BarneyFife]

Revelation 20:11-15 YLT
11) And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them;
12) and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls—according to their works;
13) and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works;
14) and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire—this is the second death;
15) and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.

No one alive is being judged in this judgment. They are all dead. Not alive. Not alive then, not alive forever. They are forever dead.

Much love!

Why would dead folks need to appear in court?

 

[quietthinker]

What does death mean?

Much love!

cessation of life

 

[quietthinker]

66 inches of rain in 24 hours? Good Lord, man, did you get hit by a typhoon or something?

all in a days activity on tuesday!

 

[marks]

Why would dead folks need to appear in court?

To be judged.

Much love!

 

[JohnPaul]

Reading your posts makes me sad that you haven't come to a greater peace.

Much love!

Keep your love, I have all the peace I need and at the same time can see through all the BS embracing that's going on in the world and misleading our youth, with this LGTB agenda.

It makes me sad that you don't see reality, you probably have a rainbow flag hanging off your house.

 

[BarneyFife]

To be judged.

Much love!

How bizarre. I'm sticking with the mystic-free version of supernatural reality (whatever that means--lol).

 

[marks]

How bizarre. I'm sticking with the mystic-free version of supernatural reality (whatever that means--lol).

Don't talk to me . . . talk to the Author.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Revelation 20:11-15 YLT
11) And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them;
12) and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls—according to their works;
13) and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works;
14) and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire—this is the second death;
15) and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.

No one alive is being judged in this judgment. They are all dead. Not alive. Not alive then, not alive forever. They are forever dead.

Much love!

He saw them standing before God, resurrected. Physically alive again, to be judged. This is the second resurrection, after the thousand years have passed. I don’t know that we can say absolutely none of them will be found in the book of life since some (though it sounds like few) will die during the millennium. Also, some may have died during the tribulation having helped one of Gods own.
I think this second resurrection is the sheep and goats, where some who helped Gods children are welcomed in.

 

[marks]

He saw them standing before God, resurrected. Physically alive again, to be judged.

He calls them dead. "Physically alive" is a term that has significance on earth, to men in flesh. These are dead, and the flesh is gone.

I don’t know that we can say absolutely none of them will be found in the book of life

However, they are the dead, not the living.

I think this second resurrection is the sheep and goats, where some who helped Gods children are welcomed in.

The sheep/goats is when Jesus returns at the end of the great tribulation, and when He judges the nations. These are fully different events, as can be amply demonstrated. One is when Jesus returns to the earth, the other, earth is not to be found. And there is more should you actually be interested.

Much love!

 

[Lambano]

Eternal torment offends you? So it can't be right? Is that what you are saying?

Let's say for the moment that the Lake of Fire will bring eternal torment to those cast into it. If that were so, would God be wrong to do that? Are we the ones to say? So far, my sister remains against the faith. My son simply has no regard for it. Yes, I get that this is personal.

Peter wrote that the one who has suffered has ceased from sin. Maybe there is a correlation there?

Much love!

If something doesn't seem right, you follow it up. I am amazed that Eternal Conscious Torment doesn't offend more people. Do they fully understand the logical consequences of what they believe? What does Eternal Conscious Torment say about the character of God?

So, here's a vignette from Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle's Inferno:

CARPENTER: Do you realize God keeps His own private torture chamber?
BENITO: Hardly private. Would you judge God?
CARPENTER: If God can judge me, I have the right to judge God!
BENITO: Oh? How will you enforce your judgment against God?
CARPENTER: Uh, by withholding my worship. The god of Allen Carpenter will have to meet higher standards than that!

This is what happens when you make vessels out of sentient clay; they judge their Maker. In the end, does it come down to who has the power to enforce their judgment?

If the one who suffers has ceased from sinning, when does the suffering cease?

 

[Lambano]

No one alive is being judged in this judgment. They are all dead. Not alive. Not alive then, not alive forever. They are forever dead.

Can the dead think? Can the dead feel pain?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

He calls them dead. "Physically alive" is a term that has significance on earth, to men in flesh. These are dead, and the flesh is gone.

I disagree. It says they were standing.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

However, they are the dead, not the living.

However, some are welcomed in who gave even a cup of water to one of His.

 

[marks]

However, some are welcomed in who gave even a cup of water to one of His.

That's the sheep/goats.

 

[marks]

I disagree. It says they were standing.

Yes it does. Are you thinking that means they have flesh and bone? That they are physically alive as we are alive? I don't think that.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Can the dead think? Can the dead feel pain?

Can the dead stand and be judged?

Much love!

 

[marks]

So, here's a vignette from Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle's Inferno:

CARPENTER: Do you realize God keeps His own private torture chamber?

This is what happens when you make vessels out of sentient clay; they judge their Maker. In the end, does it come down to who has the power to enforce their judgment?

That's what I'm reading here, that people have judged their Creator to be a Monster if in fact He created man with a durable component that will suffer without Him.

Much love!